You can only keep one: Vuc or Ross?

[Skybox]

..

All of those words and he still doesn’t impact the game as much as Ross has this year.

Fournier's year has been pretty forgettable, but Ross is starting to get overrated. For a middle of the pack team like ours how a player plays in losses is just as important as how he plays in wins. In our losses Ross is shooting 38% fg, has -17.6 NET rating, and is -353 (worst on the team). He's still a coin toss.

My thoughts exactly. Very good player, great team guy, versatile skill set, more consistent than in the past, BUT...still a coin toss...let's not get dragged into the deep end. I think he comes back for a modest raise, unless some GM throws money at him after options A & B go elsewhere...I honestly don't think that's going to happen so much anymore as the financial mistakes over the last few FA markets have been so bad. This may be an age of financial sense and I'd be surprised to see WeHam make an awful overpay...more likely to pass on an opportunity that might've worked out than to do something with great risk (for better or worse).

[Cosmic_Backlash]

I'd like to keep both, but I think their opportunity cost is too high for us now at this point. I'd rather take a couple of risks and build depth than stick with them.

Would you rather have
1. TRoss + Vuc for 30M a year
2. Noel (4/32) or WCS, Rubio (3/27), James Ennis (3/12), and Faried (2/18) for 30M a year

I think getting something similar to #2 is possible and IMO would be better long term.

Rubio / Fournier / Isaac / Gordon / Noel
Fultz / (draft) / Ennis / Faried / Bamba

draft pick would be like Coby White, NAW, Deandre Hunter, Porter, etc

Could try to trade Augustin or just not go after Rubio. We'd still have Briscoe, Iwundu, etc for depth etc.

tldr; I'd rather see us take some high risk, high rewards players (eg, Nerlens Noel) + fill out our bench than go all in Vuc & Ross.

[drsd]

Vučević is on pace for career highs in:

1) Points per game, 2) Rebounds per game, 3) Assists per game, and 4) Blocks per game. Assists per game is still mathematically obtainable.

To minor achievements: 3pt%, 2pt%, eFG%, and drb per game.

He is doing all this whilst NOT having highs in TOs per game, FG attempts missed per game, Pdfs per game, etc.


His efficiency stat are through the roof. Of course he needs to be resigned.


..

[drsd]

Would you rather have
1. TRoss + Vuc for 30M a year
2. Noel (4/32) or WCS, Rubio (3/27), James Ennis (3/12), and Faried (2/18) for 30M a year

Easily the first.

But I do not think this is only a 30M question. It could become a 32-38M question.


..

[Knightro]

Would you rather have
1. TRoss + Vuc for 30M a year
2. Noel (4/32) or WCS, Rubio (3/27), James Ennis (3/12), and Faried (2/18) for 30M a year

The first one by a lot. But I also think it's gonna take more than 30M to retain both guys.

Vucevic is clearly the best player of the guys you mentioned by a significantly wide margin. Ross is probably the 2nd best player.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Vučević is on pace for career highs in:

1) Points per game, 2) Rebounds per game, 3) Assists per game, and 4) Blocks per game. Assists per game is still mathematically obtainable.

To minor achievements: 3pt%, 2pt%, eFG%, and drb per game.

He is doing all this whilst NOT having highs in TOs per game, FG attempts missed per game, Pdfs per game, etc.


His efficiency stat are through the roof. Of course he needs to be resigned.


..

So what's your play for the next 3-4 years then?

[drsd]

So what's your play for the next 3-4 years then?

This is the easiest question ever to answer; it is 4 of these !

[Knightro]

So what's your play for the next 3-4 years then?

What the Magic probably SHOULD do...

-Let Vucevic and Ross walk
-Trade expiring contracts (Augustin and Mozgov) for longer contracts in an effort to get draft assets in return
-Build around Fultz, Gordon, Isaac, Bamba and your 2019 1st round pick
-Lose a lot in 19-20 in an effort to secure top 4 pick in 2020
-Shift focus to free agent spending in 2021

What I think the Magic will do...

-Resign Vucevic
-Resign Ross
-Resign Birch
-Trade Gordon for best PG/SG/SF you can get. Hypothetical: Gordon, Fournier, Frazier for McCollum, Turner
-Use MLE to address depth at the 3/4 (JaMychal Green on a 2 year, 18M deal with the 2nd year a team option)
-Draft BPA at 13 (Coby White)

G: Augustin, Fultz, Briscoe
G: McCollum, Ross, White
F: Turner, Iwundu
F: Isaac, Green
C: Vucevic, Bamba, Birch

^ That team should make the East playoffs. The overall ceiling is tied to how much Fultz/Bamba get healthy and develop.

[NotACat]

So what's your play for the next 3-4 years then?

What the Magic probably SHOULD do...

-Let Vucevic and Ross walk
-Trade expiring contracts (Augustin and Mozgov) for longer contracts in an effort to get draft assets in return
-Build around Fultz, Gordon, Isaac, Bamba and your 2019 1st round pick
-Lose a lot in 19-20 in an effort to secure top 4 pick in 2020
-Shift focus to free agent spending in 2021

What I think the Magic will do...

-Resign Vucevic
-Resign Ross
-Resign Birch
-Trade Gordon for best PG/SG/SF you can get. Hypothetical: Gordon, Fournier, Frazier for McCollum, Turner
-Use MLE to address depth at the 3/4 (JaMychal Green on a 2 year, 18M deal with the 2nd year a team option)
-Draft BPA at 13 (Coby White)

G: Augustin, Fultz, Briscoe
G: McCollum, Ross, White
F: Turner, Iwundu
F: Isaac, Green
C: Vucevic, Bamba, Birch

^ That team should make the East playoffs. The overall ceiling is tied to how much Fultz/Bamba get healthy and develop.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have Fournier and AG over McCollum and Evan Turner starting

[MartinsIzAfraud]

So what's your play for the next 3-4 years then?

What the Magic probably SHOULD do...

-Let Vucevic and Ross walk
-Trade expiring contracts (Augustin and Mozgov) for longer contracts in an effort to get draft assets in return
-Build around Fultz, Gordon, Isaac, Bamba and your 2019 1st round pick
-Lose a lot in 19-20 in an effort to secure top 4 pick in 2020
-Shift focus to free agent spending in 2021

What I think the Magic will do...

-Resign Vucevic
-Resign Ross
-Resign Birch
-Trade Gordon for best PG/SG/SF you can get. Hypothetical: Gordon, Fournier, Frazier for McCollum, Turner
-Use MLE to address depth at the 3/4 (JaMychal Green on a 2 year, 18M deal with the 2nd year a team option)
-Draft BPA at 13 (Coby White)

G: Augustin, Fultz, Briscoe
G: McCollum, Ross, White
F: Turner, Iwundu
F: Isaac, Green
C: Vucevic, Bamba, Birch

^ That team should make the East playoffs. The overall ceiling is tied to how much Fultz/Bamba get healthy and develop.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have Fournier and AG over McCollum and Evan Turner starting

I think McCollum & Fournier would be interchangeable for the Magic. Whose to say McCollum would get the same attempts and looks he gets in Portland in Orlando?

For instance McCollum is getting almost 18 shots a game whereas Fournier is only getting 13. McCollum Usage is at 25.5 and Fournier is at 22.1. McCollum is also 2nd option in Portland where you could say Fournier is what option 3 sometimes 4th.

I keep harping on this and I think until Magic get a PG everything else is just a switch and pray type move. Look at Sacramento, they committed to Fox and have put solid pieces around him over the last 3 years. Magic are playing around a C and when he is out they look clueless and that shouldn't happen in today's NBA.

[yoyojw17]

All of those words and he still doesn’t impact the game as much as Ross has this year.

Fournier's year has been pretty forgettable, but Ross is starting to get overrated. For a middle of the pack team like ours how a player plays in losses is just as important as how he plays in wins. In our losses Ross is shooting 38% fg, has -17.6 NET rating, and is -353 (worst on the team). He's still a coin toss.

My thoughts exactly. Very good player, great team guy, versatile skill set, more consistent than in the past, BUT...still a coin toss...let's not get dragged into the deep end. I think he comes back for a modest raise, unless some GM throws money at him after options A & B go elsewhere...I honestly don't think that's going to happen so much anymore as the financial mistakes over the last few FA markets have been so bad. This may be an age of financial sense and I'd be surprised to see WeHam make an awful overpay...more likely to pass on an opportunity that might've worked out than to do something with great risk (for better or worse).

Yeah... I've been saying that to others. The times of just making it rain is probably behind us for the most part. So hopefully that makes it easier to retain either vuc and possibly even him. His inconsistency is one reason I wouldn't be too mad if he walks. Sometime I would rather consistent 14-16pnt player over a player that lights it up on e night (helping us destroy the other team) and disappearing on us the next game.

[BadMofoPimp]

Fournier's year has been pretty forgettable, but Ross is starting to get overrated. For a middle of the pack team like ours how a player plays in losses is just as important as how he plays in wins. In our losses Ross is shooting 38% fg, has -17.6 NET rating, and is -353 (worst on the team). He's still a coin toss.

My thoughts exactly. Very good player, great team guy, versatile skill set, more consistent than in the past, BUT...still a coin toss...let's not get dragged into the deep end. I think he comes back for a modest raise, unless some GM throws money at him after options A & B go elsewhere...I honestly don't think that's going to happen so much anymore as the financial mistakes over the last few FA markets have been so bad. This may be an age of financial sense and I'd be surprised to see WeHam make an awful overpay...more likely to pass on an opportunity that might've worked out than to do something with great risk (for better or worse).

Yeah... I've been saying that to others. The times of just making it rain is probably behind us for the most part. So hopefully that makes it easier to retain either vuc and possibly even him. His inconsistency is one reason I wouldn't be too mad if he walks. Sometime I would rather consistent 14-16pnt player over a player that lights it up on e night (helping us destroy the other team) and disappearing on us the next game.

Evan and Ross stats are very similar overall. Thus, if one of them can be traded in a package for talent where needed, gotta do it. If Ross can be resigned for $2-3 mil less than Evan's $18 mil per, may have to consider trading Evan and keeping Ross. Unfortunately, Ross is a much larger black hole than Evan as Ross likes to Chuck like no tomorrow and does not pass much.

[Xatticus]

What the Magic probably SHOULD do...

-Let Vucevic and Ross walk
-Trade expiring contracts (Augustin and Mozgov) for longer contracts in an effort to get draft assets in return
-Build around Fultz, Gordon, Isaac, Bamba and your 2019 1st round pick
-Lose a lot in 19-20 in an effort to secure top 4 pick in 2020
-Shift focus to free agent spending in 2021

What I think the Magic will do...

-Resign Vucevic
-Resign Ross
-Resign Birch
-Trade Gordon for best PG/SG/SF you can get. Hypothetical: Gordon, Fournier, Frazier for McCollum, Turner
-Use MLE to address depth at the 3/4 (JaMychal Green on a 2 year, 18M deal with the 2nd year a team option)
-Draft BPA at 13 (Coby White)

G: Augustin, Fultz, Briscoe
G: McCollum, Ross, White
F: Turner, Iwundu
F: Isaac, Green
C: Vucevic, Bamba, Birch

^ That team should make the East playoffs. The overall ceiling is tied to how much Fultz/Bamba get healthy and develop.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have Fournier and AG over McCollum and Evan Turner starting

I think McCollum & Fournier would be interchangeable for the Magic. Whose to say McCollum would get the same attempts and looks he gets in Portland in Orlando?

For instance McCollum is getting almost 18 shots a game whereas Fournier is only getting 13. McCollum Usage is at 25.5 and Fournier is at 22.1. McCollum is also 2nd option in Portland where you could say Fournier is what option 3 sometimes 4th.

I keep harping on this and I think until Magic get a PG everything else is just a switch and pray type move. Look at Sacramento, they committed to Fox and have put solid pieces around him over the last 3 years. Magic are playing around a C and when he is out they look clueless and that shouldn't happen in today's NBA.

I really don't see them as interchangeable. McCollum isn't really a true PG, but he is much better at creating offense. He has a more dynamic dribble and he is better at shooting off of the dribble. He is better in isolations and at initiating the pick and roll. He is just a much better shooter overall.

That said, I think it's rather fanciful to target McCollum. I just don't think Portland is in a position where they feel compelled to make a significant change or that they view McCollum's skill set as superfluous simply because they have Lillard.

[BadHombre]

If the plan is to keep Vuc short term whilst Bamba develops, which more or less means we're punting on free agency and relying on the draft/trades to improve the roster, then the Magic may as well offer him a full MAX deal for 2 years. That would equate to approx $65M over 2 seasons. He'll come out of that contract aged 30 and ready to sign another 4 year deal whilst still in prime competitive years. If the best he's getting offered from other teams is $17-22M per over 4 years, that's approx $68-88. More or less what he would have earned in 2 seasons staying with us.

If he had any reservations about recouping the difference that a 4 year $22M deal would have offered, all he would need as a contract over the following 2 seasons of a MAX from us would be a deal paying $12M per season over those 2 following seasons, and he would be there. Financially, it puts him in a stronger position. Any extension of Vuc hurts us financially in the short term, so may as well go all in to make sure he stays - if that's what management want to do.

If everything stays the same, then in 2 years we'll have Vuc, Fournier, Moz, DJ all off the books. AG's deal would be down to $16M a season. Isaac will be a 4 year player looking for an extension, Bamba will be a 3rd year player and ready to start, Fultz would have hopefully proven he can play, if not, he's a FA. We'd have a ton of cap space and hopefully the promise that these young guys have shown, and hopefully a playoff appearance or two under our belt.

But really, I'd prefer to see him walk. With the team already looking maxed out talent wise, that money could be better spent elsewhere.

[thelead]

Yeah, I'm still going with Ross

[Cosmic_Backlash]

Would you rather have
1. TRoss + Vuc for 30M a year
2. Noel (4/32) or WCS, Rubio (3/27), James Ennis (3/12), and Faried (2/18) for 30M a year

The first one by a lot. But I also think it's gonna take more than 30M to retain both guys.

Vucevic is clearly the best player of the guys you mentioned by a significantly wide margin. Ross is probably the 2nd best player.

Totally agree Vuc is the best, I don't think Ross is the 2nd best. I think Rubio is easily the 2nd best and Noel can probably leapfrog him. Faried would be the best backup PF this team would of had since Ryan Anderson. There is a reason AG plays a ton of time with the 2nd unit, we're basically empty there. It's a hole that needs to be filled.

To me, I think the 2nd has a lot more upside and will be slightly more flexible in the long run, but committing someone like Noel for 8M is a bit of a risk, but he's proven he's a capable defender with a lot of potential too.