Temetrius "Ja" Morant

[Illmatic12]

because they are a terrible fit together

I would rather flip Morant for a vet PG in that case. Ja + filler for Jrue Holiday
If I'm Chicago I am not moving Lavine with the kind of potential he's showing , plus he is on a bargain contract.

They clearly need a creative PG.

Then you trade Morant for Holiday, or maybe for Conley + Grizz pick
The last thing PHX needs is another young kid coming in there trying to dominate the ball and get his numbers.

I have to respectfully disagree. You don't win championships by trading away the right to a guy like Morant. In a league with great pg's Morant has the chance to be at the top of the list. He's Rondo esque with his passing and vision. But he's also explosive. There might be question marks about his shooting, but the dude is a low 80% FT shooter. So there's a chance he can become a knock down 3 point shooter. And he plays under control and within the offense. He's the closest thing I've seen to a complete package - in terms of skill, athleticism, size and basketball iq - for a pg ever.

I don't think a Rondo-type PG is what leads teams to championships nowadays. It's better to have a system with multiple stars who can create their own offense, rather than one player acting as the nexus for all the ball movement. When it comes to shooting and being able to fluidly play off-ball, I'm not all that confident in Ja becoming a player who takes a team to the contending level.

And defensively, Ja is nothing like Rondo - in fact he's probably going to be a liability on that end.

Personally I'd rather have Trae Young over Morant to build a championship team.

[King Ken]

He is more Westbrook then Rondo.

I been saying, he is a blend of Westbrook athletic ability, Fox frame, and Dennis Schroder PnR ability and finishing with Trae Young vision and passing skills but doesn't have Trae floor game.

Defensively, he is closer to Dennis with Westbrook athleticism

[Funcrusher]

He is more Westbrook then Rondo.

I been saying, he is a blend of Westbrook athletic ability, Fox frame, and Dennis Schroder PnR ability and finishing with Trae Young vision and passing skills but doesn't have Trae floor game.

Defensively, he is closer to Dennis with Westbrook athleticism

what? If he has Schroder's PnR 'ability' then that would make me think less of him as a prospect. You listed all these pg's who are better in the PnR than Schroder but proceed to compare Ja to the worst of that group in that respect. And how does Ja have similar vision as Trae but lacks his floor game? Aren't those two things essentially the same attribute?

[King Ken]

He is more Westbrook then Rondo.

I been saying, he is a blend of Westbrook athletic ability, Fox frame, and Dennis Schroder PnR ability and finishing with Trae Young vision and passing skills but doesn't have Trae floor game.

Defensively, he is closer to Dennis with Westbrook athleticism

what? If he has Schroder's PnR 'ability' then that would make me think less of him as a prospect. You listed all these pg's who are better in the PnR than Schroder but proceed to compare Ja to the worst of that group in that respect. And how does Ja have similar vision as Trae but lacks his floor game? Aren't those two things essentially the same attribute?

I should have clarify the ability to score off the the PnR and his iso dribble drive is like Dennis. He obviously is a much better player out of PnR just due to his passing ability and vision.

Simple, Trae ability to gather space gravity open so much for others and his slashing is to create and not to score. Ja likes to score with his slashing first and use his vision and passing to keep the defense off balance. Trae ability to stretch the floor opens up the game for others. Ja just hasn't show that yet. Honestly, Trae didn't either as a prospect. The NBA is not college. Just two different games.

[Funcrusher]

He is more Westbrook then Rondo.

I been saying, he is a blend of Westbrook athletic ability, Fox frame, and Dennis Schroder PnR ability and finishing with Trae Young vision and passing skills but doesn't have Trae floor game.

Defensively, he is closer to Dennis with Westbrook athleticism

what? If he has Schroder's PnR 'ability' then that would make me think less of him as a prospect. You listed all these pg's who are better in the PnR than Schroder but proceed to compare Ja to the worst of that group in that respect. And how does Ja have similar vision as Trae but lacks his floor game? Aren't those two things essentially the same attribute?

I should have clarify the ability to score off the the PnR and his iso dribble drive is like Dennis. He obviously is a much better player out of PnR just due to his passing ability and vision.

Simple, Trae ability to gather space gravity open so much for others and his slashing is to create and not to score. Ja likes to score with his slashing first and use his vision and passing to keep the defense off balance. Trae ability to stretch the floor opens up the game for others. Ja just hasn't show that yet. Honestly, Trae didn't either as a prospect. The NBA is not college. Just two different games.

that makes more sense, thanks for clarifying.

[Stillwater]

He is more Westbrook then Rondo.

I been saying, he is a blend of Westbrook athletic ability, Fox frame, and Dennis Schroder PnR ability and finishing with Trae Young vision and passing skills but doesn't have Trae floor game.

Defensively, he is closer to Dennis with Westbrook athleticism

what? If he has Schroder's PnR 'ability' then that would make me think less of him as a prospect. You listed all these pg's who are better in the PnR than Schroder but proceed to compare Ja to the worst of that group in that respect. And how does Ja have similar vision as Trae but lacks his floor game? Aren't those two things essentially the same attribute?

I should have clarify the ability to score off the the PnR and his iso dribble drive is like Dennis. He obviously is a much better player out of PnR just due to his passing ability and vision.

Simple, Trae ability to gather space gravity open so much for others and his slashing is to create and not to score. Ja likes to score with his slashing first and use his vision and passing to keep the defense off balance. Trae ability to stretch the floor opens up the game for others. Ja just hasn't show that yet. Honestly, Trae didn't either as a prospect. The NBA is not college. Just two different games.

I wouldn't go that far, I mean he is not focused on chucking deep bombs like Trae was in college ,because he has much better athleticism and finishing ability around the basket,but it's not like he doesn't easily get up good shots in iso on just about anyone.
Ja is a far superior NBA prospect at the 1 spot than this league has seen in nearly a decade.

[Funcrusher]

He honestly reminds me of Hornets era CP3 offensively with his combination of athleticism, handle, change of pace, and ability to orchestrate the PnR and dissect defenses with his penetration/gravity. Obviously doesn't have Paul's mid-range game or his frame, and isn't in the same stratosphere as a defender, so not a perfect comp, but I've grown really impressed with Ja as a facilitator/floor general.

[King Ken]

what? If he has Schroder's PnR 'ability' then that would make me think less of him as a prospect. You listed all these pg's who are better in the PnR than Schroder but proceed to compare Ja to the worst of that group in that respect. And how does Ja have similar vision as Trae but lacks his floor game? Aren't those two things essentially the same attribute?

I should have clarify the ability to score off the the PnR and his iso dribble drive is like Dennis. He obviously is a much better player out of PnR just due to his passing ability and vision.

Simple, Trae ability to gather space gravity open so much for others and his slashing is to create and not to score. Ja likes to score with his slashing first and use his vision and passing to keep the defense off balance. Trae ability to stretch the floor opens up the game for others. Ja just hasn't show that yet. Honestly, Trae didn't either as a prospect. The NBA is not college. Just two different games.

I wouldn't go that far, I mean he is not focused on chucking deep bombs like Trae was in college ,because he has much better athleticism and finishing ability around the basket,but it's not like he doesn't easily get up good shots in iso on just about anyone.
Ja is a far superior NBA prospect at the 1 spot than this league has seen in nearly a decade.

Trae is the best true PG prospect since CP3 and maybe the most skilled PG ever. Ja might be one of the best PG prospects in the last 20 years. Ja is not superior to Trae but he is a better prospect. I hope he goes to a situation as good as Trae did. Seems like he will. PHX, CLE, and CHI are ready for him. The worst fit for him is NY but no telling how good they will be after the offseason. Ja is primed for success.

At the end of the day, this is a PnR league. You do that on an elite level, you got a lot of chance for success.

If teams had Ja over Zion, I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't do that but I speak from a space where we have that PG.

[Stillwater]

I should have clarify the ability to score off the the PnR and his iso dribble drive is like Dennis. He obviously is a much better player out of PnR just due to his passing ability and vision.

Simple, Trae ability to gather space gravity open so much for others and his slashing is to create and not to score. Ja likes to score with his slashing first and use his vision and passing to keep the defense off balance. Trae ability to stretch the floor opens up the game for others. Ja just hasn't show that yet. Honestly, Trae didn't either as a prospect. The NBA is not college. Just two different games.

I wouldn't go that far, I mean he is not focused on chucking deep bombs like Trae was in college ,because he has much better athleticism and finishing ability around the basket,but it's not like he doesn't easily get up good shots in iso on just about anyone.
Ja is a far superior NBA prospect at the 1 spot than this league has seen in nearly a decade.

Trae is the best true PG prospect since CP3 and maybe the most skilled PG ever. Ja might be one of the best PG prospects in the last 20 years. Ja is not superior to Trae but he is a better prospect. I hope he goes to a situation as good as Trae did. Seems like he will. PHX, CLE, and CHI are ready for him. The worst fit for him is NY but no telling how good they will be after the offseason. Ja is primed for success.

At the end of the day, this is a PnR league. You do that on an elite level, you got a lot of chance for success.

If teams had Ja over Zion, I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't do that but I speak from a space where we have that PG.

I just don't understand it...I honestly think you are wearing rose colored glasses to make comments like that about a player like Young. I will step back from my criticism of him after this and wait a few seasons,because he could very well become a great nba pg if I'm wrong,but right now for all he does well distributing the ball,it has not lead to his team winning enough games and he does have decent players around him already...so to say he makes his teammates better seems moot given what he gives up as a defender, which could prove to be the case with Morant as well,but at least Morant has the length and athleticism to become a solid defender. It always circles back around to Young having t-rex length and poor shot mechanics as my main areas of weakness with him, and unfortunately for ATL at least 1 of which is not repairable. Do you really think in a playoff setting opposing teams won't expose his defense ?

[Nazrmohamed]

I would rather flip Morant for a vet PG in that case. Ja + filler for Jrue Holiday
If I'm Chicago I am not moving Lavine with the kind of potential he's showing , plus he is on a bargain contract.


Then you trade Morant for Holiday, or maybe for Conley + Grizz pick
The last thing PHX needs is another young kid coming in there trying to dominate the ball and get his numbers.

I have to respectfully disagree. You don't win championships by trading away the right to a guy like Morant. In a league with great pg's Morant has the chance to be at the top of the list. He's Rondo esque with his passing and vision. But he's also explosive. There might be question marks about his shooting, but the dude is a low 80% FT shooter. So there's a chance he can become a knock down 3 point shooter. And he plays under control and within the offense. He's the closest thing I've seen to a complete package - in terms of skill, athleticism, size and basketball iq - for a pg ever.

I don't think a Rondo-type PG is what leads teams to championships nowadays. It's better to have a system with multiple stars who can create their own offense, rather than one player acting as the nexus for all the ball movement. When it comes to shooting and being able to fluidly play off-ball, I'm not all that confident in Ja becoming a player who takes a team to the contending level.

And defensively, Ja is nothing like Rondo - in fact he's probably going to be a liability on that end.

Personally I'd rather have Trae Young over Morant to build a championship team.

Well believe it or not that may have been the case far longer than recently. When Phil came to my team much talk was about how the triangle was outdated and he failed us because he forced an archaic system upon a modern NBA. Personally I think the problem amongst many PR issues is that he forced bad coaches on the NBA, on one of the most dysfunctional teams to begin within a ferocious media market.

But what was the triangle really from a PGs perspective? It's a system that doesnt rely on ball dominant PGs, rather it wants your stars to be heavy playmakers and have your PG focus on defense while being able to score off the ball more with players in constant motion, cutting and looking for open space to operate. Now this isnt supposed to be a triangle lesson so I'll stop there but my point is even going back to the 90s who was winning titles?

Bulls- no dominant PG
Lakers- no dominant PG
Heat-No dominant PG
Warriors- No dominant PG

Then I'll add two exceptions.
1- Rondo was an outlier and did win a title but youd be a fool to not identify that the rest of that team still had the ingredients you described...other star players who were great passers
2- One might say that Curry is a dominant PG, how can he not be with how he scores. But I mean dominates the ball in setting up his offense

But the pg who literally sets everything up for teammates who cant create for themselves or others has never been something that wins titles. What has changed is that before the "right type" of PG was a caretaker who hit open 3s after dumping inside to a go to player while now PGs are more aggressive in thier own scoring. I still think they're is room for the caretaker if they are defensive studs though

[JB2]

makes sense...Booker's actually a really good fit next to Lonzo and LeBron.

When does is extension kick in? I'm asking to see how much cap space they would have after absorbing him.

Could still have enough to field a very good roster.....

kicks in next year @ 27mil.

Lakers would have no problem absorbing it as they would have 35+ mil in cap space.

Let's say they trade Brandon Ingram (assuming he's healthy) + their own first rounder for D-Book.

Lakers would have still about ~17mil to spend to add to LeBron, Booker, Kuzma and Ball.

Phx would have a young squad of Ja, Bridges, Ingram and Ayton + whoever they get with the Lakers pick.

Not Ingram, but for the lotto pick which I guess should contractually be within a couple million of BI's deal... so they'd still have about $13-15MM to spend with a core of Lonzo | Booker | Ingram | LeBron | Kuzma | Hart | Wagner

[clyde21]

When does is extension kick in? I'm asking to see how much cap space they would have after absorbing him.

Could still have enough to field a very good roster.....

kicks in next year @ 27mil.

Lakers would have no problem absorbing it as they would have 35+ mil in cap space.

Let's say they trade Brandon Ingram (assuming he's healthy) + their own first rounder for D-Book.

Lakers would have still about ~17mil to spend to add to LeBron, Booker, Kuzma and Ball.

Phx would have a young squad of Ja, Bridges, Ingram and Ayton + whoever they get with the Lakers pick.

Not Ingram, but for the lotto pick which I guess should contractually be within a couple million of BI's deal... so they'd still have about $13-15MM to spend with a core of Lonzo | Booker | Ingram | LeBron | Kuzma | Hart | Wagner

uhh, Lakers are not getting Booker if it's just for their 1st rounder. Ingram has to be included, and that's IF he's healthy.

[doordoor123]

Fisichella opened this thread roughly two years ago while even this guy's full name wasn't certain on the net. Even for this, he deserves credit.

This also means we know he watches mid majors looking for under the radar guys

He also found Trae Young before anyone was talking about him.

[King Ken]

I wouldn't go that far, I mean he is not focused on chucking deep bombs like Trae was in college ,because he has much better athleticism and finishing ability around the basket,but it's not like he doesn't easily get up good shots in iso on just about anyone.
Ja is a far superior NBA prospect at the 1 spot than this league has seen in nearly a decade.

Trae is the best true PG prospect since CP3 and maybe the most skilled PG ever. Ja might be one of the best PG prospects in the last 20 years. Ja is not superior to Trae but he is a better prospect. I hope he goes to a situation as good as Trae did. Seems like he will. PHX, CLE, and CHI are ready for him. The worst fit for him is NY but no telling how good they will be after the offseason. Ja is primed for success.

At the end of the day, this is a PnR league. You do that on an elite level, you got a lot of chance for success.

If teams had Ja over Zion, I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't do that but I speak from a space where we have that PG.

I just don't understand it...I honestly think you are wearing rose colored glasses to make comments like that about a player like Young. I will step back from my criticism of him after this and wait a few seasons,because he could very well become a great nba pg if I'm wrong,but right now for all he does well distributing the ball,it has not lead to his team winning enough games and he does have decent players around him already...so to say he makes his teammates better seems moot given what he gives up as a defender, which could prove to be the case with Morant as well,but at least Morant has the length and athleticism to become a solid defender. It always circles back around to Young having t-rex length and poor shot mechanics as my main areas of weakness with him, and unfortunately for ATL at least 1 of which is not repairable. Do you really think in a playoff setting opposing teams won't expose his defense ?

We have only had a few good true PG prospects of the last ten years. Lillard, Wall, Trae, Ja this year, Conley, and Rubio. I don't consider Kyrie to be a true PG. He is more in the mold as a prospect of a better Iverson.

Honestly, who is more skilled as a prospect than Trae other than Kyrie. Both got the biggest bag in the NBA. You add that Trae has the passing bag as well.

No other than CP3 said this:

Read on Twitter

Trae is the reason why a team with a two 20 yos and one 21 yo with a decent 3rd year SF and a journeyman center is in most games. If you haven't been watching Atlanta with Trae Young, shame on you. You're missing out. His floor game is already elite and how he makes everyone better is already top tier for his position.

Defensively, I don't see much of a comparison as prospects. Both sucked. Trae did prove in the NBA, he has very good lateral quickness and his wingspan is similar to Steph's but he lacks the strength at this stage. I am more convinced Morant has more defensive potential due to his athletic chart but like Trae, neither played D in college so it's hard to say. I can only go by Trae in the NBA. At first, he was bad at everything but 1v1 D. Now, he is much better at communication, positioning, shot contest which he i one of the best on the team at and 1v1 D than he was before but his off ball D, PnR D, and transition D might be all time awful and he needs more than one offseason to improve it.

For Ja, it's a wait and see. We don't know yet but if Trae is a marker, he will be terrible at first. Ja does have potential. His ability to block shots and not be nothing in transition gives me some hope that he can show potential but it's gonna take awhile for him as it will Trae.


You are wrong on so many levels with Trae.

[clyde21]

do you think Trae was a better prospect than Steph?

[King Ken]

do you think Trae was a better prospect than Steph?

Steph was a combo guard as a prospect. He had to develop into a PG. He was only a PG for one season in college and was a SG in HS in Charlotte. He was also an off ball 2 till Richards left Davidson. Mark Jackson was tremendous for Steph's development.

I honestly had them in the same range as prospects in their class. At #8 overall. I was wrong on both of them honestly.

[clyde21]

do you think Trae was a better prospect than Steph?

Steph was a combo guard as a prospect. He had to develop into a PG. He was only a PG for one season in college and was a SG in HS in Charlotte. He was also an off ball 2 till Richards left Davidson. Mark Jackson was tremendous for Steph's development.

I honestly had them in the same range as prospects in their class. At #8 overall. I was wrong on both of them honestly.

yea admittedly I didn't follow NCAA or the draft back then but just looking back at his numbers and what he did for Davidson it seems like he should be part of the conversation...although combo guards today are more valuable than they were even back then.

[King Ken]

I have to respectfully disagree. You don't win championships by trading away the right to a guy like Morant. In a league with great pg's Morant has the chance to be at the top of the list. He's Rondo esque with his passing and vision. But he's also explosive. There might be question marks about his shooting, but the dude is a low 80% FT shooter. So there's a chance he can become a knock down 3 point shooter. And he plays under control and within the offense. He's the closest thing I've seen to a complete package - in terms of skill, athleticism, size and basketball iq - for a pg ever.

I don't think a Rondo-type PG is what leads teams to championships nowadays. It's better to have a system with multiple stars who can create their own offense, rather than one player acting as the nexus for all the ball movement. When it comes to shooting and being able to fluidly play off-ball, I'm not all that confident in Ja becoming a player who takes a team to the contending level.

And defensively, Ja is nothing like Rondo - in fact he's probably going to be a liability on that end.

Personally I'd rather have Trae Young over Morant to build a championship team.

Well believe it or not that may have been the case far longer than recently. When Phil came to my team much talk was about how the triangle was outdated and he failed us because he forced an archaic system upon a modern NBA. Personally I think the problem amongst many PR issues is that he forced bad coaches on the NBA, on one of the most dysfunctional teams to begin within a ferocious media market.

But what was the triangle really from a PGs perspective? It's a system that doesnt rely on ball dominant PGs, rather it wants your stars to be heavy playmakers and have your PG focus on defense while being able to score off the ball more with players in constant motion, cutting and looking for open space to operate. Now this isnt supposed to be a triangle lesson so I'll stop there but my point is even going back to the 90s who was winning titles?

Bulls- no dominant PG
Lakers- no dominant PG
Heat-No dominant PG
Warriors- No dominant PG

Then I'll add two exceptions.
1- Rondo was an outlier and did win a title but youd be a fool to not identify that the rest of that team still had the ingredients you described...other star players who were great passers
2- One might say that Curry is a dominant PG, how can he not be with how he scores. But I mean dominates the ball in setting up his offense

But the pg who literally sets everything up for teammates who cant create for themselves or others has never been something that wins titles. What has changed is that before the "right type" of PG was a caretaker who hit open 3s after dumping inside to a go to player while now PGs are more aggressive in thier own scoring. I still think they're is room for the caretaker if they are defensive studs though

LeBron and Curry have developed into PGs. Pippen was like a PG for the Bulls. The only exception is the Lakers and that was due to the tandem of Shaq and Kobe and the league just lacked depth at the time

[King Ken]

do you think Trae was a better prospect than Steph?

Steph was a combo guard as a prospect. He had to develop into a PG. He was only a PG for one season in college and was a SG in HS in Charlotte. He was also an off ball 2 till Richards left Davidson. Mark Jackson was tremendous for Steph's development.

I honestly had them in the same range as prospects in their class. At #8 overall. I was wrong on both of them honestly.

yea admittedly I didn't follow NCAA or the draft back then but just looking back at his numbers and what he did for Davidson it seems like he should be part of the conversation...although combo guards today are more valuable than they were even back then.

At the time, a PG had to be a PG unless he had freakish athletic ability and could dunk like crazy. We just never had someone before like Steph. He changed the game. Even early one, he was trying to be coached into fitting in that box. It was Kerr who came in and said, do you but Steph was looking like the best scorer in the NBA with Mark as well. 2nd contract Steph was a different monster. 1st contract Steph was in the same league as Lawson.

[Stillwater]

Trae is the best true PG prospect since CP3 and maybe the most skilled PG ever. Ja might be one of the best PG prospects in the last 20 years. Ja is not superior to Trae but he is a better prospect. I hope he goes to a situation as good as Trae did. Seems like he will. PHX, CLE, and CHI are ready for him. The worst fit for him is NY but no telling how good they will be after the offseason. Ja is primed for success.

At the end of the day, this is a PnR league. You do that on an elite level, you got a lot of chance for success.

If teams had Ja over Zion, I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't do that but I speak from a space where we have that PG.

I just don't understand it...I honestly think you are wearing rose colored glasses to make comments like that about a player like Young. I will step back from my criticism of him after this and wait a few seasons,because he could very well become a great nba pg if I'm wrong,but right now for all he does well distributing the ball,it has not lead to his team winning enough games and he does have decent players around him already...so to say he makes his teammates better seems moot given what he gives up as a defender, which could prove to be the case with Morant as well,but at least Morant has the length and athleticism to become a solid defender. It always circles back around to Young having t-rex length and poor shot mechanics as my main areas of weakness with him, and unfortunately for ATL at least 1 of which is not repairable. Do you really think in a playoff setting opposing teams won't expose his defense ?

You are wrong on so many levels with Trae.

No you just think more of offensive only players than I do.
Add a +6 ws and a high release and young is a superstar... without them he is not and never will win a championship as the lead dog