Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[Illmatic12]

i agree. I was thinking of Jrue as well.

I disagree. How much better are you going to be based on one (unquestionably outstanding) player? Respectfully, the Suns are a long way -- a long, long way -- away from being a good team, & Holiday turns 30 in June.

If you have a chance at Morant, grab him.

Well ya now after seeing him put up a triple double in the tournament lol. He looked fantastic. I dont think the Suns are as far off as you think. Ja could make a nice, young big 3 with Booker and Ayton.

Better to have Jrue imo . Holiday is a *significantly* better defensive player. Morant + Booker would probably be the softest defensive backcourt in the league.

Watching his development this season, Booker projects to be one of the top offensive creator SGs in the league. My feeling is that he'd rather play with a PG who can give him a break every now and then, not someone who wants like Morant who wants to be a "maestro" and orchestrate the offense. I also expect that the Suns coach Kokoskov would rather have that type of player for his system than a ball-dominant , top of the key PnR PG.

Generally, Holiday is a vet presence who can more fluidly play on or off the ball - depending on the situation he will know when to let Booker run the show or when to take over.

[Ruzious]

I know you think Booker is really good -- he scores a lot of points & gets a lot of assists. But his TS% is only a little above average, he's a below average rebounder, below average in steals & blocks, fouls too much, & above all he turns the ball over an amazing amount.

Ya should factor in his situation. Phoenix doesn't have a PG, so he's basically asked to be a de facto PG - playing out of position. That's why he has so many to's and probably has something to do with fouls. He rebounds fine for a G, and who cares how many blocks he gets... right? Kid is 22 years old - not sure how you completely focus on his negatives.

[itlnsunsfan]

Ya should factor in his situation. Phoenix doesn't have a PG, so he's basically asked to be a de facto PG - playing out of position. That's why he has so many to's and probably has something to do with fouls. He rebounds fine for a G, and who cares how many blocks he gets... right? Kid is 22 years old - not sure how you completely focus on his negatives.

And his true shooting is .573, which is good, just a little below Beal's. Downplaying that to make a point I guess.

[DCZards]

G Ja Morant
G Tomas Satoransky / Troy Brown Jr.
F Mikail Bridges / Dylan Windler
F Brandon Clarke / Sam Dekker
C Thomas Bryant

All the sudden we got a nice young core to build around.

A nice core. Maybe? But I'm not really liking it. Where is the shooting going to come from.

Morant could get better but right now he's not a very good shooter. Sato and Brown would be an extremely weak SG duo, especially given Sato's slow delivery and offensive passiveness.

Clarke is a lousy shooter with a broken shot. I might stay away from him altogether for that reason alone. Although I'm impressed by Clarke's rebounding, shotblocking and physicality. But he'll need to have good shooters around him.

Dekker is a high-energy, high IQ player but his overall skill level, particularly as a shooter, is meh.

I really like Bridges and from what I've seen of Windler he can really, really shoot. In fact, Windler is the best shooter in this lineup. But that's not enough.

EDIT TO ADD: If I'm Phoenix I'm not making the trade anyway. I'm taking Morant with the #2 pick and not looking back.

[Dat2U]

G Ja Morant
G Tomas Satoransky / Troy Brown Jr.
F Mikail Bridges / Dylan Windler
F Brandon Clarke / Sam Dekker
C Thomas Bryant

All the sudden we got a nice young core to build around.

A nice core. Maybe? But I'm not really liking it. Where is the shooting going to come from.

Morant could get better but right now he's not a very good shooter. Sato and Brown would be an extremely weak SG duo, especially given Sato's slow delivery and offensive passiveness.

Clarke is a lousy shooter with a broken shot. I might stay away from him altogether for that reason alone. Although I'm impressed by his rebounding, shotblocking and physicality. Dekker is a high-energy, high IQ player but his overall skill level, particularly as a shooter, is meh.

I really like Bridges and from what I've seen of Windler he can really, really shoot. In fact, Windler is the best shooter in this lineup. But that's not enough.

I'd actually lean Bitadze or Kabengele before Clarke but a strong case can be made for him.

Clarke likely wouldn't start and obviously you'd want to surround the guys with some shooting but it isn't all about next season and it's more about reloading the roster. Some of the guys drafted may honestly be future trade bait. The result should be another high pick for 2020. If you get another potential game changing talent in that draft by 2021 you can start thinking about a playoff push.

[itlnsunsfan]

I disagree. How much better are you going to be based on one (unquestionably outstanding) player? Respectfully, the Suns are a long way -- a long, long way -- away from being a good team, & Holiday turns 30 in June.

If you have a chance at Morant, grab him.

Well ya now after seeing him put up a triple double in the tournament lol. He looked fantastic. I dont think the Suns are as far off as you think. Ja could make a nice, young big 3 with Booker and Ayton.

He did look amazing. Enough so that if you have the #2 pick this year, & you are willing to give up your #31 pick as well (& I can get Dylan Windler w/ it), & you're willing to include Bridges & the 2021 Miami R1 pick you own... I'd give you Beal for that set of assets. Have you already said no to that package? Or...?

As to how far off the Suns are... every fan thinks his team is better than its record. Every one no matter what team it is. But, every team can't be better than its record. In fact, every team is exactly as good as its record. Period. Your record is 17-55; that's how good you are.

Unfortunately, right now, you don't have much by way of assets that will translate into a big near-term improvement. Ayton & Bridges are both excellent young players. But those two guys plus your rights to Oubre (assuming he pans out) are the entirety of your meaningful assets (unless you feel like giving a lot of value to the contracts of Melton & Okobo).

Above all, you have $65.5m tied up next year in 4 players who aren't close to good enough to warrant the investment: Booker, Warren, Jackson & Johnson (who is sure to pick up his huge option).

I know you think Booker is really good -- he scores a lot of points & gets a lot of assists. But his TS% is only a little above average, he's a below average rebounder, below average in steals & blocks, fouls too much, & above all he turns the ball over an amazing amount.

If I were interviewing for the GM job in Phoenix, I wouldn't take it unless ownership told me I could trade Booker. & b/c people love guys who score a lot of points, I'm sure you could get a fair number of assets for him.

But, as things stand... yeah, the Suns are way far away from being any good at all. Way far away from winning 30 games, for example. Sorry -- we're not very good either! Feel free to pick on us in retaliation!

One, there is a big difference between a roster full of 10 year vets winning 17 games and a roster full of 22 and youngers winning 17 games. The Thunder with KD and Russ only won 23 games in 2008-2009. They won 50 games the following season. Two, I think you're underestimating our assets and overestimating our cap situation. Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, and our draft pick are all valuable commodities with a lot of room for growth. Booker has earned his money. Jackson is on a rookie deal. Warren is on an excellent contract for his production and Johnson will be a fairly large expiring, which that alone could be an attractive trade piece. Three, Booker's numbers are very, very good. He's averaging 26, 7, and 4 as a 22 year old. He's gotten statistically better every season. His true shooting is .573, which is just a bit below Beal's, and better than slightly above average as you say. He's a piece you build around. A GM would be crazy to move him unless they got a godfather offer. Simply put, if you don't think Booker is an outstanding basketball player, you need to take a closer look.

[itlnsunsfan]

Double post

[Dat2U]

I disagree. How much better are you going to be based on one (unquestionably outstanding) player? Respectfully, the Suns are a long way -- a long, long way -- away from being a good team, & Holiday turns 30 in June.

If you have a chance at Morant, grab him.

Well ya now after seeing him put up a triple double in the tournament lol. He looked fantastic. I dont think the Suns are as far off as you think. Ja could make a nice, young big 3 with Booker and Ayton.

Better to have Jrue imo . Holiday is a *significantly* better defensive player. Morant + Booker would probably be the softest defensive backcourt in the league.

Watching his development this season, Booker projects to be one of the top offensive creator SGs in the league. My feeling is that he'd rather play with a PG who can give him a break every now and then, not someone who wants like Morant who wants to be a "maestro" and orchestrate the offense. I also expect that the Suns coach Kokoskov would rather have that type of player for his system than a ball-dominant , top of the key PnR PG.

Generally, Holiday is a vet presence who can more fluidly play on or off the ball - depending on the situation he will know when to let Booker run the show or when to take over.

Phoenix isn't ready. Holiday would make them better no doubt but better enough for what? The 10th seed? Ayton is still developing. Beyond Booker and Bridges its Oubre Jr and no one else that's established themselves. They need more seasoning and more talent otherwise they are just short circuiting the rebuilding process a la Grunfeld.

[Illmatic12]

Well ya now after seeing him put up a triple double in the tournament lol. He looked fantastic. I dont think the Suns are as far off as you think. Ja could make a nice, young big 3 with Booker and Ayton.

Better to have Jrue imo . Holiday is a *significantly* better defensive player. Morant + Booker would probably be the softest defensive backcourt in the league.

Watching his development this season, Booker projects to be one of the top offensive creator SGs in the league. My feeling is that he'd rather play with a PG who can give him a break every now and then, not someone who wants like Morant who wants to be a "maestro" and orchestrate the offense. I also expect that the Suns coach Kokoskov would rather have that type of player for his system than a ball-dominant , top of the key PnR PG.

Generally, Holiday is a vet presence who can more fluidly play on or off the ball - depending on the situation he will know when to let Booker run the show or when to take over.

Phoenix isn't ready. Holiday would make them better no doubt but better enough for what? The 10th seed? Ayton is still developing. Beyond Booker and Bridges its Oubre Jr and no one else that's established themselves. They need more seasoning and more talent otherwise they are just short circuiting the rebuilding process a la Grunfeld.

Phoenix is further along the rebuilding process than you think they are. Devin Booker’s rookie scale deal is over, he’s making $30M+ from next season. The Suns franchise is now on the clock , they only have 1-2 seasons before Booker demands out. At some point you have to bring in quality players who know how to win. They have a lot of young players who can’t be properly evaluated because they don’t know what they’re doing.

I mean weren’t you saying the Bulls did well with the Otto Porter trade ? How is the Suns trading for Jrue any different ?

[nate33]

Better to have Jrue imo . Holiday is a *significantly* better defensive player. Morant + Booker would probably be the softest defensive backcourt in the league.

Watching his development this season, Booker projects to be one of the top offensive creator SGs in the league. My feeling is that he'd rather play with a PG who can give him a break every now and then, not someone who wants like Morant who wants to be a "maestro" and orchestrate the offense. I also expect that the Suns coach Kokoskov would rather have that type of player for his system than a ball-dominant , top of the key PnR PG.

Generally, Holiday is a vet presence who can more fluidly play on or off the ball - depending on the situation he will know when to let Booker run the show or when to take over.

Phoenix isn't ready. Holiday would make them better no doubt but better enough for what? The 10th seed? Ayton is still developing. Beyond Booker and Bridges its Oubre Jr and no one else that's established themselves. They need more seasoning and more talent otherwise they are just short circuiting the rebuilding process a la Grunfeld.

Phoenix is further along the rebuilding process than you think they are. Devin Booker’s rookie scale deal is over, he’s making $30M+ from next season. The Suns franchise is now on the clock , they only have 1-2 seasons before Booker demands out. At some point you have to bring in quality players who know how to win. They have a lot of young players who can’t be properly evaluated because they don’t know what they’re doing.

I mean weren’t you saying the Bulls did well with the Otto Porter trade ? How is the Suns trading for Jrue any different ?

Jrue will be 29 next year. Even if he is the key piece that puts it all together, he's about due to start his decline. Looking around the league, I don't see many better options though. There aren't many 25-26 year old point guards who can play who are also available. Indeed, Satoransky might be a good fit for them.

I think you are right that clock is ticking on Phoenix. They probably get one more year of a grace period to let Ayton develop a bit more, but by the 2020-21 season, they better start winning or it could unravel.

[Illmatic12]

Phoenix isn't ready. Holiday would make them better no doubt but better enough for what? The 10th seed? Ayton is still developing. Beyond Booker and Bridges its Oubre Jr and no one else that's established themselves. They need more seasoning and more talent otherwise they are just short circuiting the rebuilding process a la Grunfeld.

Phoenix is further along the rebuilding process than you think they are. Devin Booker’s rookie scale deal is over, he’s making $30M+ from next season. The Suns franchise is now on the clock , they only have 1-2 seasons before Booker demands out. At some point you have to bring in quality players who know how to win. They have a lot of young players who can’t be properly evaluated because they don’t know what they’re doing.

I mean weren’t you saying the Bulls did well with the Otto Porter trade ? How is the Suns trading for Jrue any different ?

Jrue will be 29 next year. Even if he is the key piece that puts it all together, he's about due to start his decline. Looking around the league, I don't see many better options though. There aren't many 25-26 year old point guards who can play who are also available. Indeed, Satoransky might be a good fit for them.

I think you are right that clock is ticking on Phoenix. They probably get one more year of a grace period to let Ayton develop a bit more, but by the 2020-21 season, they better start winning or it could unravel.

Is 29 that old? Jrue is right around the age Kyle Lowry was when he broke out with the Raptors. Sweet spot for a PGs prime

Sato won't move the needle for them nearly as much as Holiday, Jrue is a legit All-Star caliber guard who can share the scoring load with Booker and defend the toughest backcourt matchups.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Kevin Knox + Dennis Smith Jr. + Trier + Dotson + free cap space for Bradley Beal. Time to rebuild from scratch.

SIGN ME UP FOR THIS!

i think you're over-valuing Beal, but as a Wizards fan this would be the bomb!

That's awful.

CCJ, I say sincerely with respect, you have such rose-colored glasses when it comes to young players that you can't evaluate trades very well. You think nearly all young players can be superstars if put in the right situation. But if that were true, than the league would be full of superstars. It isn't. Beal IS a superstar (or at least an All-Star). He is leading his team to .500 ball with only one teammate who would start on a playoff team (Ariza). The list of guys from NY just went through a stretch where they lost 31 out of 33 games.

If I were trading Beal to New York, I would want
DSJ
2019 NY 1st (assuming #2-4)
2021 DAL 1st
2019 NY 2nd
2020 CHA 2nd
whatever filler they wanted to include based on their cap constraints (probably Ntilikina)

All this is predicated on Dallas landing Durant and another good free agent, so NY would be going all in on a Big Three, giving us leverage to negotiate a real good deal.

You're wrong.

Trier can be Beal. Knox will be very effective.

Remember when I said the Clippers would be better this year than the Wizards?

At 43-30, LAC is only 7 games behind 49-22 Golden State. Sixth in the West with legit top4 sights.

Washington, is 11th in the East, 7.5 games behind Brooklyn.

Nate, Beal is a more athletic Jeff Malone. Old ass Kobe destroyed Bradley.

I know what you don't know as well as I do: talent and how to assemble a winning roster.

Boogie Cousins let me see...coach killer and cancer per you and others...hmmm? Nope.



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[nate33]

Trier can be Beal.

Trier is 23 years old and is averaging 10.9 points with an ORtg of 104 while playing mostly in garbage time on the worst team in the league. When Beal was 23, he averaged 23.1 points with a TS% above 60% playing on a team that was one game shy of the Conference Finals.

There is no point discussing this with you further. It is a waste of time.

[TheBabyMaker]

^^^^ Pretty sad Insulting Beal like that. $hit like that is why people stop reading these boards

[Dat2U]

SIGN ME UP FOR THIS!

i think you're over-valuing Beal, but as a Wizards fan this would be the bomb!

That's awful.

CCJ, I say sincerely with respect, you have such rose-colored glasses when it comes to young players that you can't evaluate trades very well. You think nearly all young players can be superstars if put in the right situation. But if that were true, than the league would be full of superstars. It isn't. Beal IS a superstar (or at least an All-Star). He is leading his team to .500 ball with only one teammate who would start on a playoff team (Ariza). The list of guys from NY just went through a stretch where they lost 31 out of 33 games.

If I were trading Beal to New York, I would want
DSJ
2019 NY 1st (assuming #2-4)
2021 DAL 1st
2019 NY 2nd
2020 CHA 2nd
whatever filler they wanted to include based on their cap constraints (probably Ntilikina)

All this is predicated on Dallas landing Durant and another good free agent, so NY would be going all in on a Big Three, giving us leverage to negotiate a real good deal.

You're wrong.

Trier can be Beal. Knox will be very effective.

Remember when I said the Clippers would be better this year than the Wizards?

At 43-30, LAC is only 7 games behind 49-22 Golden State. Sixth in the West with legit top4 sights.

Washington, is 11th in the East, 7.5 games behind Brooklyn.

Nate, Beal is a more athletic Jeff Malone. Old ass Kobe destroyed Bradley.

I know what you don't know as well as I do: talent and how to assemble a winning roster.

Boogie Cousins let me see...coach killer and cancer per you and others...hmmm? Nope.



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I love you but your wrong. Trier is just a 'guy' right now. Decent shot creation instincts but he'll never ever match Beal's skill level. You could not have watched Beal recently to suggest this.

Cousins is not helping GSW. Check the on/offs. Empty status, porous defense. He'll be a part time player against the better playoff teams because of his defense.

He's never been motivated to be a good defender and the torn achillies has now robbed him of the ability to be one even if he wanted to.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Love you 2, my Brother.

I'm not even saying I am right. Time will tell.

The East might take this year's championship. Toronto or Milwaukee can win it all.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Trier can be Beal.

Trier is 23 years old and is averaging 10.9 points with an ORtg of 104 while playing mostly in garbage time on the worst team in the league. When Beal was 23, he averaged 23.1 points with a TS% above 60% playing on a team that was one game shy of the Conference Finals.

There is no point discussing this with you further. It is a waste of time.

I'll be proven right again in about 2 years.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

^^^^ Pretty sad Insulting Beal like that. $hit like that is why people stop reading these boards

People prefer twitter.

I'm right way more often than most. Those wrong remind me of the attorney who loses to Perry Mason time and again.

Beal is a finished product six years into his career. He was not an instant star.

I know what I saw from Trier as an Arizona player.

I said McGee would be better later in his career. Mockers point to Javale when no team wanted him.

Last night, WHO BECAME THE FIRST LAKER PLAYER SINCE.. OF ALL MOCKERS...SHAQ...to record a 30/20 game?

With 6 blocks

Javale.

You guys should say what was the Beal insult. Not attack me.

Y'all said I was wrong about Wall.

Right...

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The first was build cheaply. Trade Beal. Don't lowball Beal. Send him to a winner OR ask him to take for the team like MJ the Bull player did.

What you guys WANT TO DO WITH BEAL is wrong, just like the Lakers overpaid aged Kobe.

3

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Sorry I offend...but that was all I thought.

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