Official Mitchell Robinson Thread

[Knick4Real]

These BPM numbers on Robinson are legitimately stunning. There are lots of rookies that come into the league, flash bright, and then eventually turn into stars as measured by that stat.

But almost UNIVERSALLY, no matter how good a guy eventually becomes their BPM will be atrocious as rookies - and sometimes even a year or two after that. No matter what you think about BPM as an evaluation tool, or even Mitch's specific production as measured by it, It is wildly intriguing that Mitch is at an historical level in a statistic that notoriously destroys rookies (they even mention it in the Bref glossary).

That was part of the appeal of KP to me his rookie season despite the horrific shooting - his BPM was actually above 0 (it was 0.2 both his rookie and sophomore seasons, then went to -0.7 in the year he hurt himself).

Meanwhile, here are the rookies since the inception of the 3P line to play as many minutes as Mitch (1100) and post a BPM over 5:



There's not a single non-star in there. So the Knicks either have the first guy in the modern NBA to fool the BPM metric, Mitch is doing something genuinely unique that BPM picks up on (not likely considering the raw data is gleaned from the box), or the Knicks have an NBA star on their hands.

THIS!!

Mitch has low key made himself untradeable. Sorry, AD!

[Cookies4Life]

I wonder where Money Mitch would be selected in a redraft. I'd imagine he'd be selected inside the top 10. I know Bamba has an insane wingspan but Robinson looks like the much better prospect at this point (obviously still way too early.) It's crazy to think MO played 1 year of college ball at a top program as the alpha for his team while Mitch was having solo workouts all year long.

Let's see how this Davis situation plays out. I can't imagine Boston would give a deal centered around Tatum since AD doesn't seem like he wants to play in Boston. They'd really be gambling on the idea he'd re-up with them.

I'd really like to see Robinson stay in a Knick uniform but Davis is one of maybe a handful of transcendent players that are currently in the league. I guess they'd have to consider giving the farm for Anthony if this team ends up with two superstars in Free agency.

Anyway I like the direction this team is going in. Worst case scenario we strike out on all FA's and keep building this nucleus from drafting well. I have no problem going in either direction with this franchise.

[Capn'O]

These BPM numbers on Robinson are legitimately stunning. There are lots of rookies that come into the league, flash bright, and then eventually turn into stars as measured by that stat.

But almost UNIVERSALLY, no matter how good a guy eventually becomes their BPM will be atrocious as rookies - and sometimes even a year or two after that. No matter what you think about BPM as an evaluation tool, or even Mitch's specific production as measured by it, It is wildly intriguing that Mitch is at an historical level in a statistic that notoriously destroys rookies (they even mention it in the Bref glossary).

That was part of the appeal of KP to me his rookie season despite the horrific shooting - his BPM was actually above 0 (it was 0.2 both his rookie and sophomore seasons, then went to -0.7 in the year he hurt himself).

Meanwhile, here are the rookies since the inception of the 3P line to play as many minutes as Mitch (1100) and post a BPM over 5:



There's not a single non-star in there. So the Knicks either have the first guy in the modern NBA to fool the BPM metric, Mitch is doing something genuinely unique that BPM picks up on (not likely considering the raw data is gleaned from the box), or the Knicks have an NBA star on their hands.

Damn. All of those guys were older than Mitch too. Some by quite a bit. MP is a key qualifier here. I don't think he could do that with starters' minutes. But it's still amazing and amazing company.

Webber's is pretty eye popping too. He is a borderline HOF'er but he's one guy where I feel he still could have been so much better.

[denterprise]

I wonder where Money Mitch would be selected in a redraft. I'd imagine he'd be selected inside the top 10. I know Bamba has an insane wingspan but Robinson looks like the much better prospect at this point (obviously still way too early.) It's crazy to think MO played 1 year of college ball at a top program as the alpha for his team while Mitch was having solo workouts all year long.

Let's see how this Davis situation plays out. I can't imagine Boston would give a deal centered around Tatum since AD doesn't seem like he wants to play in Boston. They'd really be gambling on the idea he'd re-up with them.

I'd really like to see Robinson stay in a Knick uniform but Davis is one of maybe a handful of transcendent players that are currently in the league. I guess they'd have to consider giving the farm for Anthony if this team ends up with two superstars in Free agency.

Anyway I like the direction this team is going in. Worst case scenario we strike out on all FA's and keep building this nucleus from drafting well. I have no problem going in either direction with this franchise.

I know Davis is the best centers in the league today but when I think of a transcendent player, I think of one that has carried his team to championships or at least very deep into the playoffs on a consistent basis. Davis has had pretty decent players around him and he has not gotten the job done. All I am saying is if we were to go into negotiations for him we should not have to deplete all our assets.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I wonder where Money Mitch would be selected in a redraft. I'd imagine he'd be selected inside the top 10. I know Bamba has an insane wingspan but Robinson looks like the much better prospect at this point (obviously still way too early.) It's crazy to think MO played 1 year of college ball at a top program as the alpha for his team while Mitch was having solo workouts all year long.

Let's see how this Davis situation plays out. I can't imagine Boston would give a deal centered around Tatum since AD doesn't seem like he wants to play in Boston. They'd really be gambling on the idea he'd re-up with them.

I'd really like to see Robinson stay in a Knick uniform but Davis is one of maybe a handful of transcendent players that are currently in the league. I guess they'd have to consider giving the farm for Anthony if this team ends up with two superstars in Free agency.

Anyway I like the direction this team is going in. Worst case scenario we strike out on all FA's and keep building this nucleus from drafting well. I have no problem going in either direction with this franchise.

I know Davis is the best centers in the league today but when I think of a transcendent player, I think of one that has carried his team to championships or at least very deep into the playoffs on a consistent basis. Davis has had pretty decent players around him and he has not gotten the job done. All I am saying is if we were to go into negotiations for him we should not have to deplete all our assets.

dude is arguably the best individual player in the league, not just the best center.

on one hand, his teams have not accomplished much. on the other hand, i don't agree with the concept of davis having played on especially talented teams.

in 2015, his third season in the league, he and a rag tag bunch made the playoffs in the west. just last season a group with comparable if not weaker overall talent knocked off a 3 seed in the west.

there haven't been any parades in NO, but damn. his teams have overachieved at times.

[awy]

ad needs to pass a bit better to take his game to the next level. as is, he's kind of dependent on good guard play, as he can't be the on ball creator due to lack of facilitation.

[NYKAL]

^has Davis EVER managed to play an entire season. He seems injury prone and the only way to get him is by lucking up on Zion. I'd rather Zion who DOES NOT need to ball in his hands over Davis who's going to want his numbers.

If we can get a talent like Davis wihtout giving up the draft pick....hell, I'd rather Ja over him too. Not sold on Davis.

My dream is KD, Kyrie & Zion. By not getting that 3RD MAX, we'd still have money to put decent players around them. 3max cats leaves NO bench.

[SelbyCobra]

These BPM numbers on Robinson are legitimately stunning. There are lots of rookies that come into the league, flash bright, and then eventually turn into stars as measured by that stat.

But almost UNIVERSALLY, no matter how good a guy eventually becomes their BPM will be atrocious as rookies - and sometimes even a year or two after that. No matter what you think about BPM as an evaluation tool, or even Mitch's specific production as measured by it, It is wildly intriguing that Mitch is at an historical level in a statistic that notoriously destroys rookies (they even mention it in the Bref glossary).

That was part of the appeal of KP to me his rookie season despite the horrific shooting - his BPM was actually above 0 (it was 0.2 both his rookie and sophomore seasons, then went to -0.7 in the year he hurt himself).

Meanwhile, here are the rookies since the inception of the 3P line to play as many minutes as Mitch (1100) and post a BPM over 5:



There's not a single non-star in there. So the Knicks either have the first guy in the modern NBA to fool the BPM metric, Mitch is doing something genuinely unique that BPM picks up on (not likely considering the raw data is gleaned from the box), or the Knicks have an NBA star on their hands.

Damn. All of those guys were older than Mitch too. Some by quite a bit. MP is a key qualifier here. I don't think he could do that with starters' minutes. But it's still amazing and amazing company.

Webber's is pretty eye popping too. He is a borderline HOF'er but he's one guy where I feel he still could have been so much better.

For the sake of clarity, Magic and CP3 were both younger than Mitch, and CWebb was only a month older (their season ages are right on the chart, and I looked up birthdates to get more granular).

[denterprise]

I wonder where Money Mitch would be selected in a redraft. I'd imagine he'd be selected inside the top 10. I know Bamba has an insane wingspan but Robinson looks like the much better prospect at this point (obviously still way too early.) It's crazy to think MO played 1 year of college ball at a top program as the alpha for his team while Mitch was having solo workouts all year long.

Let's see how this Davis situation plays out. I can't imagine Boston would give a deal centered around Tatum since AD doesn't seem like he wants to play in Boston. They'd really be gambling on the idea he'd re-up with them.

I'd really like to see Robinson stay in a Knick uniform but Davis is one of maybe a handful of transcendent players that are currently in the league. I guess they'd have to consider giving the farm for Anthony if this team ends up with two superstars in Free agency.

Anyway I like the direction this team is going in. Worst case scenario we strike out on all FA's and keep building this nucleus from drafting well. I have no problem going in either direction with this franchise.

I know Davis is the best centers in the league today but when I think of a transcendent player, I think of one that has carried his team to championships or at least very deep into the playoffs on a consistent basis. Davis has had pretty decent players around him and he has not gotten the job done. All I am saying is if we were to go into negotiations for him we should not have to deplete all our assets.

dude is arguably the best individual player in the league, not just the best center.

on one hand, his teams have not accomplished much. on the other hand, i don't agree with the concept of davis having played on especially talented teams.

in 2015, his third season in the league, he and a rag tag bunch made the playoffs in the west. just last season a group with comparable if not weaker overall talent knocked off a 3 seed in the west.

there haven't been any parades in NO, but damn. his teams have overachieved at times.

I agree, he is good, very good, just not a transcendent player. It has been a few years since he has even been mentioned as a top ten candidate in the MVP race. I am not trying to minimize how good he is but the Pelicans can't expect to deplete any team in order to move him, especially if he puts it out there he is still planning on becoming a free agent.

[Cookies4Life]

I wonder where Money Mitch would be selected in a redraft. I'd imagine he'd be selected inside the top 10. I know Bamba has an insane wingspan but Robinson looks like the much better prospect at this point (obviously still way too early.) It's crazy to think MO played 1 year of college ball at a top program as the alpha for his team while Mitch was having solo workouts all year long.

Let's see how this Davis situation plays out. I can't imagine Boston would give a deal centered around Tatum since AD doesn't seem like he wants to play in Boston. They'd really be gambling on the idea he'd re-up with them.

I'd really like to see Robinson stay in a Knick uniform but Davis is one of maybe a handful of transcendent players that are currently in the league. I guess they'd have to consider giving the farm for Anthony if this team ends up with two superstars in Free agency.

Anyway I like the direction this team is going in. Worst case scenario we strike out on all FA's and keep building this nucleus from drafting well. I have no problem going in either direction with this franchise.

I know Davis is the best centers in the league today but when I think of a transcendent player, I think of one that has carried his team to championships or at least very deep into the playoffs on a consistent basis. Davis has had pretty decent players around him and he has not gotten the job done. All I am saying is if we were to go into negotiations for him we should not have to deplete all our assets.

I disagree with this notion on Davis. His timing on asking for a trade was awful at best and happened while they were still competing for a playoff spot. He polarized himself from the team and put himself in a very awkward situation where his minutes were restricted for no apparent reason. They could've made a push for the 8th seed, not saying they definitely would've gotten there.

Lebron isn't making the playoffs this year but I think most would agree he's part of that handful of transcendent type of players. You need a good team around you to be contenders in the West, and neither guy has that on their current roster.

I'll actually double down on my statement about AD and go one further- he's the best player in the league. Some poster said he relies a bit on guard play because he can't create shots for himself has obviously not seen Davis play this year. He can create for himself comfortably whether isolated behind the 3 point line or in the post. He has no weaknesses in his game right now including being a very good perimeter shooter. When you look at his overall skillset now on both ends of the floor + rebounding, and I think it's a no brainer that he's the best player in the league right now. The guy was carrying over a 30 PER until he started acting up.

[RHODEY]

These BPM numbers on Robinson are legitimately stunning. There are lots of rookies that come into the league, flash bright, and then eventually turn into stars as measured by that stat.

But almost UNIVERSALLY, no matter how good a guy eventually becomes their BPM will be atrocious as rookies - and sometimes even a year or two after that. No matter what you think about BPM as an evaluation tool, or even Mitch's specific production as measured by it, It is wildly intriguing that Mitch is at an historical level in a statistic that notoriously destroys rookies (they even mention it in the Bref glossary).

That was part of the appeal of KP to me his rookie season despite the horrific shooting - his BPM was actually above 0 (it was 0.2 both his rookie and sophomore seasons, then went to -0.7 in the year he hurt himself).

Meanwhile, here are the rookies since the inception of the 3P line to play as many minutes as Mitch (1100) and post a BPM over 5:



There's not a single non-star in there. So the Knicks either have the first guy in the modern NBA to fool the BPM metric, Mitch is doing something genuinely unique that BPM picks up on (not likely considering the raw data is gleaned from the box), or the Knicks have an NBA star on their hands.

Damn. All of those guys were older than Mitch too. Some by quite a bit. MP is a key qualifier here. I don't think he could do that with starters' minutes. But it's still amazing and amazing company.

Webber's is pretty eye popping too. He is a borderline HOF'er but he's one guy where I feel he still could have been so much better.

For the sake of clarity, Magic and CP3 were both younger than Mitch, and CWebb was only a month older (their season ages are right on the chart, and I looked up birthdates to get more granular).

well he's amonghe youngest at 20 ...but all those guys had college.

[RHODEY]

I wonder where Money Mitch would be selected in a redraft. I'd imagine he'd be selected inside the top 10. I know Bamba has an insane wingspan but Robinson looks like the much better prospect at this point (obviously still way too early.) It's crazy to think MO played 1 year of college ball at a top program as the alpha for his team while Mitch was having solo workouts all year long.

Let's see how this Davis situation plays out. I can't imagine Boston would give a deal centered around Tatum since AD doesn't seem like he wants to play in Boston. They'd really be gambling on the idea he'd re-up with them.

I'd really like to see Robinson stay in a Knick uniform but Davis is one of maybe a handful of transcendent players that are currently in the league. I guess they'd have to consider giving the farm for Anthony if this team ends up with two superstars in Free agency.

Anyway I like the direction this team is going in. Worst case scenario we strike out on all FA's and keep building this nucleus from drafting well. I have no problem going in either direction with this franchise.

I know Davis is the best centers in the league today but when I think of a transcendent player, I think of one that has carried his team to championships or at least very deep into the playoffs on a consistent basis. Davis has had pretty decent players around him and he has not gotten the job done. All I am saying is if we were to go into negotiations for him we should not have to deplete all our assets.

I disagree with this notion on Davis. His timing on asking for a trade was awful at best and happened while they were still competing for a playoff spot. He polarized himself from the team and put himself in a very awkward situation where his minutes were restricted for no apparent reason. They could've made a push for the 8th seed, not saying they definitely would've gotten there.

Lebron isn't making the playoffs this year but I think most would agree he's part of that handful of transcendent type of players. You need a good team around you to be contenders in the West, and neither guy has that on their current roster.

I'll actually double down on my statement about AD and go one further- he's the best player in the league. Some poster said he relies a bit on guard play because he can't create shots for himself has obviously not seen Davis play this year. He can create for himself comfortably whether isolated behind the 3 point line or in the post. He has no weaknesses in his game right now including being a very good perimeter shooter. When you look at his overall skillset now on both ends of the floor + rebounding, and I think it's a no brainer that he's the best player in the league right now. The guy was carrying over a 30 PER until he started acting up.

IMO he's one of the best but theres a few I'd put on his level, ...Lebron, Gianis

[Chanel Bomber]

Anthony Davis doesn't make his teammates better and he can't carry a team on his back because his ISO scoring skills are not elite (unlike say prime Dirk who made plays out of the double-team because he couldn't be stopped 1-on-1). He simply doesn't have the impact or the gravity of a Curry, LeBron, Harden, Giannis or KD. He's not even close.

I always say stats need to be put into context and AD is the perfect example why you can't rely solely on stats. He's a second option on a championship team at best. No shame in that. But a second option on a championship team can't be the best player in the league. AD is an elite finisher, but not the guy you can build a championship level offense around.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[Jeff Van Gully]

Read on Twitter

word. forgot what thread i was in for a moment.

[BallSacBounce]

^has Davis EVER managed to play an entire season. He seems injury prone and the only way to get him is by lucking up on Zion. I'd rather Zion who DOES NOT need to ball in his hands over Davis who's going to want his numbers.

If we can get a talent like Davis wihtout giving up the draft pick....hell, I'd rather Ja over him too. Not sold on Davis.

My dream is KD, Kyrie & Zion. By not getting that 3RD MAX, we'd still have money to put decent players around them. 3max cats leaves NO bench.

WTF, what!?

[Cookies4Life]

Anthony Davis doesn't make his teammates better and he can't carry a team on his back because his ISO scoring skills are not elite (unlike say prime Dirk who made plays out of the double-team because he couldn't be stopped 1-on-1). He simply doesn't have the impact or the gravity of a Curry, LeBron, Harden, Giannis or KD. He's not even close.

I always say stats need to be put into context and AD is the perfect example why you can't rely solely on stats. He's a second option on a championship team at best. No shame in that. But a second option on a championship team can't be the best player in the league. AD is an elite finisher, but not the guy you can build a championship level offense around.

Anthony Davis doesn't play on a good team and unfortunately plays out in the very competitive West. Holiday was oft injured for the first couple seasons in NO and those 2 guys could never stay healthy for an entire season really.

This whole "doesn't have an impact" position and calling him a 2nd option at best is nonsensical and can't possibly be corroborated with anything of note to back that baseless claim of yours.

All those guys you mentioned play on better teams with much better secondary/tertiary stars than what Davis has played with his entire NO career. He's better than all those guys you listed, every single one of them.

Do we not take into account a player's defensive impact on the game or has that facet become obsolete in today's run and gun league? The closest player on that list as far as impact for his team on both sides of the ball is Giannis, the big difference is AD is a much better offensive player. His biggest problem is his health and maybe now his diva type of attitude that just popped out of nowhere.

I personally don't care if we get him because I know it'll take some ridiculous haul to obtain his services such as Mitch/Frank/DSJ/Knox and multiple 1st rounders. But to discredit his game and his impact on a team is just ludicrous. He makes that NO team competitive enough for about a 7th/8th seed on a consistent basis. One guy can only do so much.

[awy]

giannis is better than ad on offense. check the assists.

ad isnt going to be your primary ball handler while giannis does that with elite level success, just give him some
3&d guys to space the floor

[god shammgod]

my thing is, if you're not elite at creating a jumper for yourself off the dribble you can't be a 1st option on a championship team anymore. you need that for end of game situations. so neither ad or giannis is really ideal as a 1st option.

[K_ick_God]

I tend to agree that AD is overrated. Little like CP3. A statistical monster who hasn’t shown winning greatness.

Obviously some of that is teammates but how much is the question.

I’d say KG was just better than AD by quite a bit.