Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

[Fat Kat]

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With all due respect to KFS, fck KFS. Instead of critiquing our coaching staff for failing to develop and coach Frank from the beginning, they want to allege that Frank is not worth his contract going forward? Are these the same clowns who wanted to rebuild through the draft like the Sixers?

Frank is not even 21 yet.

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[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Frank going into year 3 as an unknown. I hope he either gets developed or shipped somewhere with an actual system.

He's a "known unknown", I would argue.

[Fat Kat]

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[Fat Kat]

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[BKAY]

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With all due respect to KFS, fck KFS. Instead of critiquing our coaching staff for failing to develop and coach Frank from the beginning, they want to allege that Frank is not worth his contract going forward? Are these the same clowns who wanted to rebuild through the draft like the Sixers?

Frank is not even 21 yet.

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Salary cap wasn't even close to what it is now though. Hard to compare players contracts from the old salary cap vs. their actual worth with the new salary cap. Cap was no more than 70 million in 2015. If you put a 2015 Pat Beverly on the market right now he's getting way more than 4/23 imo

[Jeff Van Gully]

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With all due respect to KFS, fck KFS. Instead of critiquing our coaching staff for failing to develop and coach Frank from the beginning, they want to allege that Frank is not worth his contract going forward? Are these the same clowns who wanted to rebuild through the draft like the Sixers?

Frank is not even 21 yet.

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you are aware that beverly's salary was ~8.5% of a $70m cap. right?

8.5% of $109m is a little over $9.25m. frank's contract next season is about half that. or 4.25% of the cap.

cap expected to jump to $132m in 2021...

if the knicks give frank a deal like the clippers gave pat at $9.25m per season, he'd be making 7% of the $132m cap at the end of his deal.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

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Such bull. The medical staff had him trying to play through soreness on a groin strain that had kept him out for, idk, 8 weeks? What the actual **** is that all about? Come on. You. Cannot. Be Serious.

[Richard4444]

Can't we simply absorb Holiday's contract into one of our max slots?

Yes. But would be hard. I dont think we can trade the rookie after signing the contract in the first 30 days. We would have to do 2 deals.

1) After signing Durant and still under the salary cap, we would trade Jrue for 3 First Round Picks without give any salary to NO.

2) Then, we would trade for AD by matching 80% of his salary ($21,7Mi) without giving the 2019 first.
1 Frank 4855,8
2 Knox 4463,64
3 Dennis 4385,64
4 Dotson 1618,52
5 Trier 3551,1
6 Henry 1645,3
7 Mitch 1559,712
22079,712

I dont think New orleans would accept such deal. But we can try. We can replace Mitch with Jenkins but I think New Orleans would laugh at us.

I enjoy playing this game, but (apart from being off topic re Frank) it's really necessary to play all 5 versions (depending on which draft pick the Knicks get) at once, rather than cherry pick a particular event (eeehh, maybe pick #5 as it is 48% is worthwhile considering alone).

In all versions I think one imagines the Knicks and NOP both wanting to include the draft pick in the trade(s) - except maybe the Knicks if they are #1 - the Knicks to make/have flexibility in the salary weight package, the Pels because that will be a "better" asset than any of the others the Knicks have (except maybe Mitch? for them). So I'm not convinced waiting for the 30 days for the pick to be tradeable is that big a deal.

You are right. We can trade AD in this scenario after 30 days because you dont need to be under the cap to do it. We have to be under the cap to sign Jrue (without give away salary). But we can go over the cap after signing Excepcions and Minimuns deals to replace incomplete roster charges to deal for AD after 30 days after signing the 2019 rookie.

PS: I assume this off topic discussion is now over. If someone want to continue, we can do it in the proper topic.

[Jeff Van Gully]

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Such bull. The medical staff had him trying to play through soreness on a groin strain that had kept him out for, idk, 8 weeks? What the actual **** is that all about? Come on. You. Cannot. Be Serious.

i'm sure frank wanted to play. was worth a test if there was no structural damage. test failed. he's done.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Yes. But would be hard. I dont think we can trade the rookie after signing the contract in the first 30 days. We would have to do 2 deals.

1) After signing Durant and still under the salary cap, we would trade Jrue for 3 First Round Picks without give any salary to NO.

2) Then, we would trade for AD by matching 80% of his salary ($21,7Mi) without giving the 2019 first.
1 Frank 4855,8
2 Knox 4463,64
3 Dennis 4385,64
4 Dotson 1618,52
5 Trier 3551,1
6 Henry 1645,3
7 Mitch 1559,712
22079,712

I dont think New orleans would accept such deal. But we can try. We can replace Mitch with Jenkins but I think New Orleans would laugh at us.

I enjoy playing this game, but (apart from being off topic re Frank) it's really necessary to play all 5 versions (depending on which draft pick the Knicks get) at once, rather than cherry pick a particular event (eeehh, maybe pick #5 as it is 48% is worthwhile considering alone).

In all versions I think one imagines the Knicks and NOP both wanting to include the draft pick in the trade(s) - except maybe the Knicks if they are #1 - the Knicks to make/have flexibility in the salary weight package, the Pels because that will be a "better" asset than any of the others the Knicks have (except maybe Mitch? for them). So I'm not convinced waiting for the 30 days for the pick to be tradeable is that big a deal.

You are right. We can trade AD in this scenario after 30 days because you dont need to be under the cap to do it. We have to be under the cap to sign Jrue (without give away salary). But we can go over the cap after signing Excepcions and Minimuns deals to replace incomplete roster charges to deal for AD after 30 days after signing the 2019 rookie.

pssssst. viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1807948&start=980

[Nazrmohamed]

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With all due respect to KFS, fck KFS. Instead of critiquing our coaching staff for failing to develop and coach Frank from the beginning, they want to allege that Frank is not worth his contract going forward? Are these the same clowns who wanted to rebuild through the draft like the Sixers?

Frank is not even 21 yet.

Do you follow KFS Hawth? If you did youd know that they are probably the most objective site I've seen regarding the Knicks and if anything have been Frank apologists. Multiple videos showing the impact Frank has even when scoring only 5 points. But as they say, theres value at one price.....and then theres value at another. Consider this, we had to trade away Ron Baker once he got a mere 5mil, who I always felt had less potential than Frank and I'll tell you right now, he was surely a better scorer, always made good decisions and while I wont say his defense was as good as Frank's when Frank is locked in, he played defense just as hard if not more gritty it's just that Frank had better tools.

I love the idea of Frank but as I always have said, hes gotta want it as much if not more than you or I do. Even on defense if that's all he'll become, a low scoring defender hes gotta get just alittle more gritty with it, more of a pest......assuming that's all you'r gonna get. I mean, I remember Pablo Priggs. Guy scored just as much, had less tools defensively and was old as dirt. We loved him. But what would he do? Pick up his man and hound them from one end all the way to the other.

I'm not saying Frank is not a great defender. I spend all my time trying to prove you can indeed go 4 on 5 on offense if the one guy missing from that equation is giving you great defense. But hes almost gotta make a show out of it if that's gonna be the case. Put yourself on the damn map. Stop being so damn nice and introverted. I dont know but I want him to stick around and he just refuses to pop.

[Nazrmohamed]

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Such bull. The medical staff had him trying to play through soreness on a groin strain that had kept him out for, idk, 8 weeks? What the actual **** is that all about? Come on. You. Cannot. Be Serious.

i'm sure frank wanted to play. was worth a test if there was no structural damage. test failed. he's done.

Exactly. If Frank never played he was off this roster. Period. It just so happens he'll probably still be off this roster but I'm sure they wanted to give him any chance in hell of showing he can actually play......and he failed unfortunately.

[HarthorneWingo]

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With all due respect to KFS, fck KFS. Instead of critiquing our coaching staff for failing to develop and coach Frank from the beginning, they want to allege that Frank is not worth his contract going forward? Are these the same clowns who wanted to rebuild through the draft like the Sixers?

Frank is not even 21 yet.

Do you follow KFS Hawth? If you did youd know that they are probably the most objective site I've seen regarding the Knicks and if anything have been Frank apologists. Multiple videos showing the impact Frank has even when scoring only 5 points. But as they say, theres value at one price.....and then theres value at another. Consider this, we had to trade away Ron Baker once he got a mere 5mil, who I always felt had less potential than Frank and I'll tell you right now, he was surely a better scorer, always made good decisions and while I wont say his defense was as good as Frank's when Frank is locked in, he played defense just as hard if not more gritty it's just that Frank had better tools.

I love the idea of Frank but as I always have said, hes gotta want it as much if not more than you or I do. Even on defense if that's all he'll become, a low scoring defender hes gotta get just alittle more gritty with it, more of a pest......assuming that's all you'r gonna get. I mean, I remember Pablo Priggs. Guy scored just as much, had less tools defensively and was old as dirt. We loved him. But what would he do? Pick up his man and hound them from one end all the way to the other.

I'm not saying Frank is not a great defender. I spend all my time trying to prove you can indeed go 4 on 5 on offense if the one guy missing from that equation is giving you great defense. But hes almost gotta make a show out of it if that's gonna be the case. Put yourself on the damn map. Stop being so damn nice and introverted. I dont know but I want him to stick around and he just refuses to pop.

So they agree with me on Frank? Good!

They were so fixated on Kanter all the time it became nauseating. Like, ok, I get it! Just stfu already and move on. lol Even when Kanter wasn't playing they'd spend 20 minutes on him. I had to shut it off. That show has been hit or miss for me. Sometimes they're just not that informative and Macri kisses way too my ass and gets into inane side-stories that lose my interest.

[Nazrmohamed]

Yeah but half those videos they were trying to prove his stats were empty lol. Kanters that is.

I think what ended up happening is the same thing that happened to me. You just see where this road leads and the fight becomes less and less fun to fight. If I wake up the day of camp and Frank survives I'll be happy as hell. But if I also wake up one day and hes gone I wont be surprised and tbh I'll say it was on him. Not because I dont like what he couldve been but because at some point just appease the damn critics. Not one day did Frank say I'm gonna try something different and see what happens. Hell, I think he only took over 5 shots like 5 times this year. That's almost like a guy saying I am what I am and if you dont like that so be it.


Ok well so be it. Look Hawth, I argue all the time. Value comes in scarcity. Fizz says he needs defenders yet Frank dont play, go figure. But at the same time ask yourself this. What if you got what you wanted and we started adding in all these defenders. If that happened and it made you care less about Frank's plight then let him go. It's sad when a guy like me says it's not DSJ, Mudiay or Ja thatll make Frank expendable.......its someone as inconsequential as Kadeem Allen. All it takes is someone who is defense inclined to show up who can hit a shot or two on offense and Frank becomes obsolete.

It's up to him to show hes not obsolete. But hey, until we get a few more of those guys I'll keep hope alive that he can figure something out. I'm praying for him, I'm just no longer that confident.

[2010]

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With all due respect to KFS, fck KFS. Instead of critiquing our coaching staff for failing to develop and coach Frank from the beginning, they want to allege that Frank is not worth his contract going forward? Are these the same clowns who wanted to rebuild through the draft like the Sixers?

Frank is not even 21 yet.

Do you follow KFS Hawth? If you did youd know that they are probably the most objective site I've seen regarding the Knicks and if anything have been Frank apologists. Multiple videos showing the impact Frank has even when scoring only 5 points. But as they say, theres value at one price.....and then theres value at another. Consider this, we had to trade away Ron Baker once he got a mere 5mil, who I always felt had less potential than Frank and I'll tell you right now, he was surely a better scorer, always made good decisions and while I wont say his defense was as good as Frank's when Frank is locked in, he played defense just as hard if not more gritty it's just that Frank had better tools.

I love the idea of Frank but as I always have said, hes gotta want it as much if not more than you or I do. Even on defense if that's all he'll become, a low scoring defender hes gotta get just alittle more gritty with it, more of a pest......assuming that's all you'r gonna get. I mean, I remember Pablo Priggs. Guy scored just as much, had less tools defensively and was old as dirt. We loved him. But what would he do? Pick up his man and hound them from one end all the way to the other.

I'm not saying Frank is not a great defender. I spend all my time trying to prove you can indeed go 4 on 5 on offense if the one guy missing from that equation is giving you great defense. But hes almost gotta make a show out of it if that's gonna be the case. Put yourself on the damn map. Stop being so damn nice and introverted. I dont know but I want him to stick around and he just refuses to pop.

I agree with everything you said here. I think part of my frustration with Frank is (aside from being a complete ZERO on offense), on defense he just doesn't seem like he is gritty enough with it. Dude is just too nonchalant with everything. Baker would dive on the floor. Not sure I ever remember seeing Frank dive on the floor or dive out of bounds. Dude is mad dainty.

Frank the type to pull out a plastic pack wit the fork, knife, and napkin inside to eat a slice of pizza

[2010]

I think what ended up happening is the same thing that happened to me. You just see where this road leads and the fight becomes less and less fun to fight. If I wake up the day of camp and Frank survives I'll be happy as hell. But if I also wake up one day and hes gone I wont be surprised and tbh I'll say it was on him. Not because I dont like what he couldve been but because at some point just appease the damn critics. Not one day did Frank say I'm gonna try something different and see what happens. Hell, I think he only took over 5 shots like 5 times this year. That's almost like a guy saying I am what I am and if you dont like that so be it.

Preach!

[spree2kawhi]

I want this kid to play a major role one day. But after all, you know, even Adam Morrison failed. That was sad too, but he did not make it in the league.

Still I'm very impressed with Frank's defense and I hope he can get that jumper to fall soon enough. He was quite a problem recently though.

[Fat Kat]

With all due respect to KFS, fck KFS. Instead of critiquing our coaching staff for failing to develop and coach Frank from the beginning, they want to allege that Frank is not worth his contract going forward? Are these the same clowns who wanted to rebuild through the draft like the Sixers?

Frank is not even 21 yet.

Do you follow KFS Hawth? If you did youd know that they are probably the most objective site I've seen regarding the Knicks and if anything have been Frank apologists. Multiple videos showing the impact Frank has even when scoring only 5 points. But as they say, theres value at one price.....and then theres value at another. Consider this, we had to trade away Ron Baker once he got a mere 5mil, who I always felt had less potential than Frank and I'll tell you right now, he was surely a better scorer, always made good decisions and while I wont say his defense was as good as Frank's when Frank is locked in, he played defense just as hard if not more gritty it's just that Frank had better tools.

I love the idea of Frank but as I always have said, hes gotta want it as much if not more than you or I do. Even on defense if that's all he'll become, a low scoring defender hes gotta get just alittle more gritty with it, more of a pest......assuming that's all you'r gonna get. I mean, I remember Pablo Priggs. Guy scored just as much, had less tools defensively and was old as dirt. We loved him. But what would he do? Pick up his man and hound them from one end all the way to the other.

I'm not saying Frank is not a great defender. I spend all my time trying to prove you can indeed go 4 on 5 on offense if the one guy missing from that equation is giving you great defense. But hes almost gotta make a show out of it if that's gonna be the case. Put yourself on the damn map. Stop being so damn nice and introverted. I dont know but I want him to stick around and he just refuses to pop.

I agree with everything you said here. I think part of my frustration with Frank is (aside from being a complete ZERO on offense), on defense he just doesn't seem like he is gritty enough with it. Dude is just too nonchalant with everything. Baker would dive on the floor. Not sure I ever remember seeing Frank dive on the floor or dive out of bounds. Dude is mad dainty.

Frank the type to pull out a plastic pack wit the fork, knife, and napkin inside to eat a slice of pizza

Frank isn’t an alpha.....and for some, that’s the appeal

[Nazrmohamed]

Frank is a smart defender. He doesnt bite on dumb stuff, uses the correct arm when a guy drives one way or the other, sees the ball-sees his man, makes the right play most of the time and has a good sense of awareness.

In contrast Shumpert was exactly what I say Frank needs to sprinkle in and mind you I say sprinkle in cuz you're about to hear some flaws too. Shumpert was more the showman defender. Went after on ball steals and blocks, wanted to dunk on every drive offensively. He slammed his hands on the floor and called out offensive players to say "you're mine". His downside is hed get burnt backdoor. Didnt have awareness to sense where a play was going.....just wanted to lock in on one man.


And I'm just talking defense here. Both couldn't score. But I'm just saying Frank needs to sprinkle in alittle Shump in there. Dont be like Shump and lose what you were but just sprinkle it. Hard foul somebody. Get a steal and rather than just hand it to an offensive player be alittle bit greedy and go coast to coast. Maybe down the line when you're on a good team your iq will be appreciated but he was literally playing with bums.


SHOW TF OUT!!!!!!

[Jalen Bluntson]

He's done for the year. Great. I'm very disappointed in his 2nd season. Oh well...what can ya do? Kid didn't show anything this year that I had hoped he would. Now he's done. Going into the off season rehabbing a 2 month groin injury. Not a good look.