Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Phoenix is further along the rebuilding process than you think they are. Devin Booker’s rookie scale deal is over, he’s making $30M+ from next season. The Suns franchise is now on the clock , they only have 1-2 seasons before Booker demands out. At some point you have to bring in quality players who know how to win. They have a lot of young players who can’t be properly evaluated because they don’t know what they’re doing.

I mean weren’t you saying the Bulls did well with the Otto Porter trade ? How is the Suns trading for Jrue any different ?

Jrue will be 29 next year. Even if he is the key piece that puts it all together, he's about due to start his decline. Looking around the league, I don't see many better options though. There aren't many 25-26 year old point guards who can play who are also available. Indeed, Satoransky might be a good fit for them.

I think you are right that clock is ticking on Phoenix. They probably get one more year of a grace period to let Ayton develop a bit more, but by the 2020-21 season, they better start winning or it could unravel.

Is 29 that old? Jrue is right around the age Kyle Lowry was when he broke out with the Raptors. Sweet spot for a PGs prime

Sato won't move the needle for them nearly as much as Holiday, Jrue is a legit All-Star caliber guard who can share the scoring load with Booker and defend the toughest backcourt matchups.

Trier can be Beal.

Trier is 23 years old and is averaging 10.9 points with an ORtg of 104 while playing mostly in garbage time on the worst team in the league. When Beal was 23, he averaged 23.1 points with a TS% above 60% playing on a team that was one game shy of the Conference Finals.

There is no point discussing this with you further. It is a waste of time.

Beal had healthy and young Wall. He had Ariza. He had Webster. He had good Gortat.

Trier has...

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

That's awful.

CCJ, I say sincerely with respect, you have such rose-colored glasses when it comes to young players that you can't evaluate trades very well. You think nearly all young players can be superstars if put in the right situation. But if that were true, than the league would be full of superstars. It isn't. Beal IS a superstar (or at least an All-Star). He is leading his team to .500 ball with only one teammate who would start on a playoff team (Ariza). The list of guys from NY just went through a stretch where they lost 31 out of 33 games.

If I were trading Beal to New York, I would want
DSJ
2019 NY 1st (assuming #2-4)
2021 DAL 1st
2019 NY 2nd
2020 CHA 2nd
whatever filler they wanted to include based on their cap constraints (probably Ntilikina)

All this is predicated on Dallas landing Durant and another good free agent, so NY would be going all in on a Big Three, giving us leverage to negotiate a real good deal.

You're wrong.

Trier can be Beal. Knox will be very effective.

Remember when I said the Clippers would be better this year than the Wizards?

At 43-30, LAC is only 7 games behind 49-22 Golden State. Sixth in the West with legit top4 sights.

Washington, is 11th in the East, 7.5 games behind Brooklyn.

Nate, Beal is a more athletic Jeff Malone. Old ass Kobe destroyed Bradley.

I know what you don't know as well as I do: talent and how to assemble a winning roster.

Boogie Cousins let me see...coach killer and cancer per you and others...hmmm? Nope.



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I love you but your wrong. Trier is just a 'guy' right now. Decent shot creation instincts but he'll never ever match Beal's skill level. You could not have watched Beal recently to suggest this.

Cousins is not helping GSW. Check the on/offs. Empty status, porous defense. He'll be a part time player against the better playoff teams because of his defense.

He's never been motivated to be a good defender and the torn achillies has now robbed him of the ability to be one even if he wanted to.

Cousins is not helping GS.

The Warriors seem to me like the rock group The Beatles were, right at the end. They're going to blow up and NEVER dominate again IMO.

This is there last hooray.

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[Ruzious]

And going back to 2 months ago, a trade revolving around Beal and Anthony Davis would have been laughable, but now... Beal and next year's first for Davis would at least be somewhat reasonable - if both teams felt they had a good shot at re-signing them.

To be honest, I think we could trade Beal straight up for Davis, without throwing in a pick, and it would be the best deal on the table for New Orleans.

But as thricethefun points out, the move wouldn't make a lot of sense for us. Without Beal, it would just be Davis toiling on another bad team. He wanted to leave New Orleans because of all the losing. Why would he want to stay here?

I disagree - mainly because I think there's still a very big difference between the East and the West - which somewhat hides the difference between Davis and Beal. As good as Beal is, Davis is still significantly better - and signivicantly better on both ends of the court. He's a player you can build a championship team around. It hasn't happened because of terrible management and being in the West. And he's quick enough to defend in the manner that Milwaukee has Giannis defend - as a roving PF - and Giannis might be DPOY. Davis can do what Giannis does plus he has 3 point range.

Wiz can re-sign their RFA's - Sato, Bryant, Dekker, McRea, and Devin Robinson all to 3 or 4 year contracts, still have Brown and Howard. They still have the MLE and a metric ton of player exceptions of different shapes and sizes. And we have a lotto pick - say we get Garland - which I think is reasonable. I'd probably even pass on both Portis and Parker - only keep Parker if he's 5 mil or less. One UFA I'd focus on is Jeremy Lamb - who quietly does well each year even though he still hasn't hit his stride on 3's. Maybe add a cheap veteran PG like Elfrid Payton - who plays defense is trying to re-build his value after having a bunch of injuries. When you have an MVP type player, it's so much easier to build a top team. And then we either build a Wall or hit a Wall.

I still say this is the best way to go - though there could be other good ways to go - getting a package featuring a quality young vet and high pick for Beal.
Backcourt: Garland, Sato, Lamb, E Payton, and McRae (and Wall)
Forwards: Davis, Brown, Dekker, Robinson, maybe Parker
Centers: Bryant, Howard, ?

[payitforward]

I know you think Booker is really good -- he scores a lot of points & gets a lot of assists. But his TS% is only a little above average, he's a below average rebounder, below average in steals & blocks, fouls too much, & above all he turns the ball over an amazing amount.

Ya should factor in his situation. Phoenix doesn't have a PG, so he's basically asked to be a de facto PG - playing out of position. That's why he has so many to's and probably has something to do with fouls. He rebounds fine for a G, and who cares how many blocks he gets... right? Kid is 22 years old - not sure how you completely focus on his negatives.

Absolutely -- he's 22, & he may blossom. But, he hasn't yet, not a bit, & it's a pretty speculative way to bet $122m all guaranteed which is what the fired Suns GM did. It's that guy's negatives I meant to focus on.

But my main point in the post you quote was not about Booker -- it was to explain why I think Phoenix is still very very far from being a good team. Booker is not a counter-argument to that observation, at least not now. Maybe someday he will be.

Btw, in 2016-17, his 2d year in the league, Booker played with Eric Bledsoe at PG for 2200 minutes. Bledsoe was terrific. Booker was terrible (&, yes, turned it over a lot). He was also only 20 years old.

[payitforward]

To be honest, I think we could trade Beal straight up for Davis, without throwing in a pick, and it would be the best deal on the table for New Orleans.

But as thricethefun points out, the move wouldn't make a lot of sense for us. Without Beal, it would just be Davis toiling on another bad team. He wanted to leave New Orleans because of all the losing. Why would he want to stay here?

I disagree - mainly because I think there's still a very big difference between the East and the West - which somewhat hides the difference between Davis and Beal. As good as Beal is, Davis is still significantly better - and signivicantly better on both ends of the court. He's a player you can build a championship team around. It hasn't happened because of terrible management and being in the West. And he's quick enough to defend in the manner that Milwaukee has Giannis defend - as a roving PF - and Giannis might be DPOY. Davis can do what Giannis does plus he has 3 point range.

Wiz can re-sign their RFA's - Sato, Bryant, Dekker, McRea, and Devin Robinson all to 3 or 4 year contracts, still have Brown and Howard. They still have the MLE and a metric ton of player exceptions of different shapes and sizes. And we have a lotto pick - say we get Garland - which I think is reasonable. I'd probably even pass on both Portis and Parker - only keep Parker if he's 5 mil or less. One UFA I'd focus on is Jeremy Lamb - who quietly does well each year even though he still hasn't hit his stride on 3's. Maybe add a cheap veteran PG like Elfrid Payton - who plays defense is trying to re-build his value after having a bunch of injuries. When you have an MVP type player, it's so much easier to build a top team. And then we either build a Wall or hit a Wall.

I still say this is the best way to go - though there could be other good ways to go - getting a package featuring a quality young vet and high pick for Beal.
Backcourt: Garland, Sato, Lamb, E Payton, and McRae (and Wall)
Forwards: Davis, Brown, Dekker, Robinson, maybe Parker
Centers: Bryant, Howard, ?

Agree entirely! Beal straight up for Davis? Of course!

[Ruzious]

I know you think Booker is really good -- he scores a lot of points & gets a lot of assists. But his TS% is only a little above average, he's a below average rebounder, below average in steals & blocks, fouls too much, & above all he turns the ball over an amazing amount.

Ya should factor in his situation. Phoenix doesn't have a PG, so he's basically asked to be a de facto PG - playing out of position. That's why he has so many to's and probably has something to do with fouls. He rebounds fine for a G, and who cares how many blocks he gets... right? Kid is 22 years old - not sure how you completely focus on his negatives.

Absolutely -- he's 22, & he may blossom. But, he hasn't yet, not a bit, & it's a pretty speculative way to bet $122m all guaranteed which is what the fired Suns GM did. It's that guy's negatives I meant to focus on.

But my main point in the post you quote was not about Booker -- it was to explain why I think Phoenix is still very very far from being a good team. Booker is not a counter-argument to that observation, at least not now. Maybe someday he will be.

Btw, in 2016-17, his 2d year in the league, Booker played with Eric Bledsoe at PG for 2200 minutes. Bledsoe was terrific. Booker was terrible (&, yes, turned it over a lot). He was also only 20 years old.

Phoenix couldn't wait to get rid of Bledsoe, and he was miserable there. Great to see him play so well since he's gone to Milwaukee.

[thricethefun]

If the Celtics offered Tatum and Brown for Beal this summer would you do it? Theres a good chance neither player become as good as Beal but both are on their rookie contracts so it might fit our window better.

[nate33]

If the Celtics offered Tatum and Brown for Beal this summer would you do it? Theres a good chance neither player become as good as Beal but both are on their rookie contracts so it might fit our window better.

Brown doesn't interest me because he has just one more year before being overpaid. Like Porter (and probably Oubre), he's just good enough to get a massive contract, but not really good enough to be enough of a star to earn that contract.

If I was trading Beal to Boston, I'd ask for Tatum plus a handful of 1st round picks, including the Memphis pick.

[payitforward]

If I was trading Beal to Boston, I'd ask for Tatum plus a handful of 1st round picks, including the Memphis pick.

If you were the Boston GM, would you give that for Beal? I wouldn't.

[nate33]

If I was trading Beal to Boston, I'd ask for Tatum plus a handful of 1st round picks, including the Memphis pick.

If you were the Boston GM, would you give that for Beal? I wouldn't.

They have a real chemistry problem in Boston. And Tatum has been very disappointing this year. They might.

[DCZards]

If I was trading Beal to Boston, I'd ask for Tatum plus a handful of 1st round picks, including the Memphis pick.

If you were the Boston GM, would you give that for Beal? I wouldn't.

They have a real chemistry problem in Boston. And Tatum has been very disappointing this year. They might.

You might get Tatum and a first round pick for Beal...but I don't see Boston giving up more than one first round pick in the deal.

[Dat2U]

If I was trading Beal to Boston, I'd ask for Tatum plus a handful of 1st round picks, including the Memphis pick.

If you were the Boston GM, would you give that for Beal? I wouldn't.

They have a real chemistry problem in Boston. And Tatum has been very disappointing this year. They might.

I've never been as high on Tatum as fans and the national media are. I think he's a nice player but clearly a 3rd option. A potentially a better version of Otto Porter in his prime but not a superstar.

[Ruzious]

It seems odd, but it's possible Tatum basically hit his peak as a 19 year old rookie - very solid player who's never going to be a star.

[nate33]

If you were the Boston GM, would you give that for Beal? I wouldn't.

They have a real chemistry problem in Boston. And Tatum has been very disappointing this year. They might.

I've never been as high on Tatum as fans and the national media are. I think he's a nice player but clearly a 3rd option. A potentially a better version of Otto Porter in his prime but not a superstar.

Agreed. That's why I'd want some picks too.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If the Celtics offered Tatum and Brown for Beal this summer would you do it? Theres a good chance neither player become as good as Beal but both are on their rookie contracts so it might fit our window better.

Not with this coach. Not with Wall injured. Otherwise, hell yes.

Tatum and Brown were both stunted by the return of Gordon Hayward. Horford being gimpy/aging has affected Boston. Kyrie staying in the lineup is dominating the ball more; so, Brown more than Tatum is now a non-factor. Both those guys are good. I'd do it but Brooks is a loser coach. We need Beal's leadership.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If the Celtics offered Tatum and Brown for Beal this summer would you do it? Theres a good chance neither player become as good as Beal but both are on their rookie contracts so it might fit our window better.

Brown doesn't interest me because he has just one more year before being overpaid. Like Porter (and probably Oubre), he's just good enough to get a massive contract, but not really good enough to be enough of a star to earn that contract.

If I was trading Beal to Boston, I'd ask for Tatum plus a handful of 1st round picks, including the Memphis pick.

You would not get Tatum and multiple picks. You'd be lucky to get Tatum, Brown, and one first round pick.

[nate33]

If the Celtics offered Tatum and Brown for Beal this summer would you do it? Theres a good chance neither player become as good as Beal but both are on their rookie contracts so it might fit our window better.

Brown doesn't interest me because he has just one more year before being overpaid. Like Porter (and probably Oubre), he's just good enough to get a massive contract, but not really good enough to be enough of a star to earn that contract.

If I was trading Beal to Boston, I'd ask for Tatum plus a handful of 1st round picks, including the Memphis pick.

You would not get Tatum and multiple picks. You'd be lucky to get Tatum, Brown, and one first round pick.

If I could get Tatum, Brown and 1 pick, can't I just get Tatum and 2 picks?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Don't see why not!

I think Brown is the player he was as a rookie, when the Celtics advanced to the Finals. I remember his defense at SG. He's a versatile player who has a right to be PISSED at the Cs IMO.

[nate33]

Don't see why not!

I think Brown is the player he was as a rookie, when the Celtics advanced to the Finals. I remember his defense at SG. He's a versatile player who has a right to be PISSED at the Cs IMO.

I like Brown a lot too. I just think he is likely to be overpaid next summer.

[Dark Faze]

If the Celtics offered Tatum and Brown for Beal this summer would you do it? Theres a good chance neither player become as good as Beal but both are on their rookie contracts so it might fit our window better.

Not with this coach. Not with Wall injured. Otherwise, hell yes.

Tatum and Brown were both stunted by the return of Gordon Hayward. Horford being gimpy/aging has affected Boston. Kyrie staying in the lineup is dominating the ball more; so, Brown more than Tatum is now a non-factor. Both those guys are good. I'd do it but Brooks is a loser coach. We need Beal's leadership.

I think it's moot anyway. I don't see anyway that Kyrie goes back to Boston this summer.