Political Roundtable Part XXV
Moderators: nate33, montestewart, LyricalRico
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
stilldropin20
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,370
- And1: 1,233
- Joined: Jul 31, 2002
-
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
like i said, its a full rebuild.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
dckingsfan
- RealGM
- Posts: 35,251
- And1: 20,654
- Joined: May 28, 2010
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
FAH, not sure if you think Warren's wealth tax is a good idea. Let me give you one example to show it isn't.
Assume you run a small business. Let's assume that the same small business has revenues of 5M and 50 employees. That small business has a value - let's say 12x earnings. So it is "worth" 60M. So, the owner would be hit with a 120K "wealth tax". Assuming a small business owner like that makes 200K and already pays taxes of 60K. The only way forward is to either a) sell the business or b) borrow money to pay the wealth tax.
Warren often does a terrific job of identifying problems. She often does a terrible job of implementing fixes. Her legislation to fix too big to fail is a perfect example - those banks are even bigger now.
Look for the D that says, "it's the tax code, stupid". That's the politician telling you the truth.
Assume you run a small business. Let's assume that the same small business has revenues of 5M and 50 employees. That small business has a value - let's say 12x earnings. So it is "worth" 60M. So, the owner would be hit with a 120K "wealth tax". Assuming a small business owner like that makes 200K and already pays taxes of 60K. The only way forward is to either a) sell the business or b) borrow money to pay the wealth tax.
Warren often does a terrific job of identifying problems. She often does a terrible job of implementing fixes. Her legislation to fix too big to fail is a perfect example - those banks are even bigger now.
Look for the D that says, "it's the tax code, stupid". That's the politician telling you the truth.
FAH1223 wrote:Democrats have a huge rural problem and a lot of it is monopoly and the failures of the Obama administration.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
stilldropin20
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,370
- And1: 1,233
- Joined: Jul 31, 2002
-
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
bunch of crap!! dumb people actually believe this crap. because of liars spreading fake lies about trump for 2.5 years. makes me sick that this woman has the audacity to scream that someone else cant wear a make america great again hat.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
closg00
- RealGM
- Posts: 24,707
- And1: 4,558
- Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
stilldropin20
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,370
- And1: 1,233
- Joined: Jul 31, 2002
-
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
dckingsfan wrote:FAH, not sure if you think Warren's wealth tax is a good idea. Let me give you one example to show it isn't.
Assume you run a small business. Let's assume that the same small business has revenues of 5M and 50 employees. That small business has a value - let's say 12x earnings. So it is "worth" 60M. So, the owner would be hit with a 120K "wealth tax". Assuming a small business owner like that makes 200K and already pays taxes of 60K. The only way forward is to either a) sell the business or b) borrow money to pay the wealth tax.
Warren often does a terrific job of identifying problems. She often does a terrible job of implementing fixes. Her legislation to fix too big to fail is a perfect example - those banks are even bigger now.
Look for the D that says, "it's the tax code, stupid". That's the politician telling you the truth.FAH1223 wrote:Democrats have a huge rural problem and a lot of it is monopoly and the failures of the Obama administration.
the only way to address wealth inequality is via death tax or upon the transfer of wealth over "X" amount of dollars....say $5million.
remove all trust, and non profit loop holes. wealth is wealth no matter how it is held. Tax it all at 30% (or so)upon transfer maringing up to 50% (or so) tax above $10 million (or so) and 80% above $25 million (or so).
Thats the only way. if the family farm, or family vinyard, or shares in google, or apple, or family business has to be sold then so be it. make them sell. nobody should be born super rich. its anti american.
This is obviously (one area of a couple) where i differ form trump significantly.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
closg00
- RealGM
- Posts: 24,707
- And1: 4,558
- Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
I was going to say that thanks to Donald Trump, Republicans can't say sh it about creepy Uncle Joe, but at Trumps recent rally he chummed the crowd with "Obama lied about being to keep your doctor, Obama lied 28 times" So, if Biden does become the nominee, YES, Republicans will shamelessly flog this while supporting Trump.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
stilldropin20
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,370
- And1: 1,233
- Joined: Jul 31, 2002
-
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
this is what Nate and I said 2.5 years ago. We were the first ones to see this for what it really was. No one else has said it until now. If you dont read or listen to any other post of mine, listen to this. this sums it all up perfectly. This is exactly what happened. And everybody now knows it. finally.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
stilldropin20
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,370
- And1: 1,233
- Joined: Jul 31, 2002
-
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
Pointgod
- RealGM
- Posts: 24,204
- And1: 24,503
- Joined: Jun 28, 2014
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
nate33 wrote:Pointgod wrote:closg00 wrote:Barr did for Trump exactly what he was brought in to do
The fix was in from the start. It’s amazing that when corruption is out in the open no one rings the alarm bells.
You're damn right the fix was in at the start. The fix was to open an investigation with no probable cause, and this dig and dig and dig in the desperate hopes of finding, something, anything, to take down Trump.
There was no collusion. None. There was more contact and collusion between Hillary Clinton and the Russians than there was between Trump and the Russians. Clinton literally hired a foreign agent to talk to Russian operatives to dig up dirt on Trump, and people have the audacity to accuse Trump of collusion!
This is still America I hope. You're not supposed to start a secret investigation without credible evidence, use the results to squeeze minor players who committed old crimes entirely unrelated to the investigation to "turn on" the subject of the investigation, bankrupting them in the process. And after all that, when you've still got nothing, you then moan and wail about obstruction of justice! Justice? What justice is there in investigating someone for 2 years without any credible pretext?
There’s no proof that the investigation into the Trump campaign wasn’t credible. Remember the whole Nunes memo that was supposed to show definitive proof of FISA abuse? Want me to bring up your embarrassing posts where you claimed that people were going to jail? Echoing clowns like Jim Jordan, Devin Nunes and Matt Gaetz. Considering Trump can direct the Justice department to investigate whatever matter he wants, where are all the indictments from the scandalous Nunes memos?
Here’s a timeline of the investigation into Russia actively interfering in your elections.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/10/12/us/2016-presidential-election-investigation-fast-facts/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
We know that as late as June 2016 that the Trump campaign knew with 100% verifiable proof that Russians were trying to give them dirt on Clinton, we know in the same month that Russians hacked the DNC server and month later Trump **** encouraged Russia to release stolen emails! I don’t give a **** if you think he was joking, this is extremely wreckless and legitimately needs to be questioned. Along with the timeline we also know that Trump was working on a Trump tower deal with Russia that ended in June 2016 at the earliest but according to Trump’s own lawyer the negotiations continued up until he got elected.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/20/us/politics/trump-tower-moscow-cohen-giuliani.html
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/11/29/18117910/cohen-trump-tower-moscow-mueller-testimony
Let’s keep in mind that Mueller may not have found enough evidence to bring charges for criminal activity but we also know that the one guy who really knows where the bodies are buried (Manafort) decided he’d rather go to jail than cooperate and Mueller never sat down to interview Trump. And at no time did they go to the FBI with this information. So either the Trump campaign was colluding and did enough to hide their crimes or they’re useful idiots and easily manipulated by a foreign power, either way not a good look.
I’m assuming you’re just going to ignore everything I’ve written the the evidence supporting my arguments so I want to point this out to you. You and STD claim that Hillary Clinton is treasonous for selling out to Russia in the Uranium One scandal (which is 100% bull). Then you should view Trump as committing treason as well considering we have proof he was negotiating with a hostile foreign power and has been Putin’s mouthpiece knowing that Russia was interfering with the election.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
closg00
- RealGM
- Posts: 24,707
- And1: 4,558
- Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
Pointgod
- RealGM
- Posts: 24,204
- And1: 24,503
- Joined: Jun 28, 2014
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
montestewart wrote:Pointgod wrote:Spoiler:
Pointgod, I'm having a hard enough time with STD, and here you are, calling mods names. Don't call mods names. Don't call anyone names. You can state your opinion just fine without name calling.
Same goes for everyone here. Never forget, politics is hard work. People aren't necessarily going to feel great when they debate on political subjects, but try to channel any anger into taking apart points with better counterpoints.
Look I know that you have a to be a moderate voice on these boards and I’m not trying to make your job harder but Nate and STD have constantly posted and made blatantly false statements or peddled misinformation in this thread. Just a few examples are:
1. Uranium One
2. The Nunes memos
3. The Seth Rich conspiracy
4. Susan Rice unmasking
5. The MAGA bomber being a false flag by the Democrats (one that a couple other posters mentioned and never apologized for)
6. George Soros
If they would own up and admit that they were wrong and this was all a load of bull it’s one thing, but the fact that they continue to double down signifies that no one should take them seriously. So when I call them clowns (which I apologize for) it’s in the context of all the bull **** they’ve been peddling for the past 2 years and in STDs case continues to post even to today. As for personal attacks STD and TGW have made attacks against me and I’ve never once hit that report button. It’s politics and things get heated but I don’t take things personal because frankly this is just a messageboard. But I think it degrades that quality when you have posters that refuse to argue in good faith and post purposely post lies or misinformation.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
- nate33
- Forum Mod - Wizards

- Posts: 70,644
- And1: 23,118
- Joined: Oct 28, 2002
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
Pointgod wrote:There’s no proof that the investigation into the Trump campaign wasn’t credible. Remember the whole Nunes memo that was supposed to show definitive proof of FISA abuse? Want me to bring up your embarrassing posts where you claimed that people were going to jail? Echoing clowns like Jim Jordan, Devin Nunes and Matt Gaetz. Considering Trump can direct the Justice department to investigate whatever matter he wants, where are all the indictments from the scandalous Nunes memos?
Trump couldn't investigate the corrupt nature of the FISA warrant while the investigation was ongoing because Democrats would have accused him of obstruction. This isn't over. The investigation into the FISA abuse will start now. We already know that the justification for the FISA warrant was based solely on Steele's unverified dossier and the fact that that dossier was opposition research from the Clinton team was hidden from the court.
Pointgod wrote:Here’s a timeline of the investigation into Russia actively interfering in your elections.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/10/12/us/2016-presidential-election-investigation-fast-facts/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
We know that as late as June 2016 that the Trump campaign knew with 100% verifiable proof that Russians were trying to give them dirt on Clinton, we know in the same month that Russians hacked the DNC server and month later Trump **** encouraged Russia to release stolen emails! I don’t give a **** if you think he was joking, this is extremely wreckless and legitimately needs to be questioned.
I still cannot believe the absurdity of this accusation. If Trump was working with the Russians, and he really wanted them to help him in his election, he would have told them privately through back channels. He wouldn't openly announce it at a campaign rally. Trump was joking about the 30,000 emails that Clinton "lost" on her home server. It had nothing to do with the Russian hacks of the DNC. Trump said verbatim in his speech: “I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.” This whole attempt to conflate the two (DNC hacks and lost Clinton emails) is yet another example of the media conducting a disinformation campaign in an attempt to stop Trump.
Pointgod wrote:Along with the timeline we also know that Trump was working on a Trump tower deal with Russia that ended in June 2016 at the earliest but according to Trump’s own lawyer the negotiations continued up until he got elected.
So what? Trump Organization is a company that wants to do business in Russia. This is not a crime, certainly not before Trump was actually the President. If the public didn't want to elect someone who had friendly business relations with Russia, they didn't have to vote for him. But it is not a pretext for the Deep State to try and impeach him.
Pointgod wrote:Let’s keep in mind that Mueller may not have found enough evidence to bring charges for criminal activity but we also know that the one guy who really knows where the bodies are buried (Manafort) decided he’d rather go to jail than cooperate
Or maybe there was nothing to cooperate about because Trump committed no crime. Do you really think Manafort was so loyal to Trump that he would go to jail for him? Trump fired Manafort unceremoniously just 5 months after hiring him.
Pointgod wrote:and Mueller never sat down to interview Trump.
Yes, because just about everyone who sat down with Mueller got manipulated into a perjury trap process crime.
Pointgod wrote:And at no time did they go to the FBI with this information. So either the Trump campaign was colluding and did enough to hide their crimes or they’re useful idiots and easily manipulated by a foreign power, either way not a good look.
Go to the FBI for what? Russia said they wanted to set up a meeting to talk about dirt on Clinton, but the meeting was only about the Magnitsky Act.
Pointgod wrote:I’m assuming you’re just going to ignore everything I’ve written the the evidence supporting my arguments so I want to point this out to you. You and STD claim that Hillary Clinton is treasonous for selling out to Russia in the Uranium One scandal (which is 100% bull). Then you should view Trump as committing treason as well considering we have proof he was negotiating with a hostile foreign power and has been Putin’s mouthpiece knowing that Russia was interfering with the election.
That's a lie. There is no proof whatsoever of Trump "negotiating with a hostile power" other than the totally appropriate conversation between Michael Flynn and Russian representatives after Trump was already elected and Flynn was on the transition team. The Trump administration has been tougher on Russia than any since Reagan. I never said Clinton was treasonous for the Uranium One scandal but I do think it's fishy and worthy of some scrutiny.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
montestewart
- Forum Mod - Wizards

- Posts: 14,829
- And1: 7,963
- Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
In addressing a criticism, I am trying to show some balance here, so I'll correct flat-out wrong facts of both a liberal and a conservative.
It's Three Days of the Condor, from the novel Six Days of the Condor. Movies always have to shorten things, hence A Tale of One City.
Actually, it cannot accurately be said at all (I'm sensing a pattern here).
Manafort was an associate and partner of long time Trump lobbyist Roger Stone, Manafort had many business and political contacts in Ukraine and Russia as the Trump organization was considering business opportunities in Russia, and Manafort owned a Trump Tower condo. Trump knew exactly who Manafort was. I can't find any contemporaneous citations to Manafort being thrust on Trump at the last minute, but plenty involving Trump's own children favoring first Lewandowski's ouster (good name for a novel), then Manafort's ouster, and then Bannon's ouster. The rest looks like revisionism disconnected from facts.
Shame on you, dobro, getting the name of Robert Redford's best movie wrong.
dobrojim wrote:Redford in Day of the Condor
It's Three Days of the Condor, from the novel Six Days of the Condor. Movies always have to shorten things, hence A Tale of One City.
stilldropin20 wrote:It can NOT be said enough that trump only hired Manaforte as he was accepting the GOP nomination.
Actually, it cannot accurately be said at all (I'm sensing a pattern here).
"Trump hires strategist Paul Manafort" The Hill 3/28/2016Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump has reportedly hired Republican strategist Paul Manafort to lead his delegate efforts, The New York Times reported Monday.
Real Clear Politics 4/16/2016Trump Manager Manafort: "We're Evolving The Campaign, Not The Candidate"
Washington Examiner 5/19/2016Trump names Manafort campaign chairman
"Corey Lewandowski out as Trump campaign manager" Fox2Now 6/20/2016It was ultimately Ivanka Trump who sat down with her father on Sunday and convinced him to let Lewandowski go....Amid all of these distractions, members of the Trump family, his friends, as well as Manafort, had been upping their efforts to convince Trump that Lewandowski’s guidance had grown harmful to the candidate and the campaign....Some sources within the campaign are expecting Manafort and his deputy, Rick Gates, to fill the power void that Lewandowski leaves behind.
New York Post 7/21/2016Donald Trump accepts GOP nomination: ‘I am your voice!’
Manafort was an associate and partner of long time Trump lobbyist Roger Stone, Manafort had many business and political contacts in Ukraine and Russia as the Trump organization was considering business opportunities in Russia, and Manafort owned a Trump Tower condo. Trump knew exactly who Manafort was. I can't find any contemporaneous citations to Manafort being thrust on Trump at the last minute, but plenty involving Trump's own children favoring first Lewandowski's ouster (good name for a novel), then Manafort's ouster, and then Bannon's ouster. The rest looks like revisionism disconnected from facts.
Shame on you, dobro, getting the name of Robert Redford's best movie wrong.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
montestewart
- Forum Mod - Wizards

- Posts: 14,829
- And1: 7,963
- Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
Pointgod wrote:montestewart wrote:Pointgod wrote:Spoiler:
Pointgod, I'm having a hard enough time with STD, and here you are, calling mods names. Don't call mods names. Don't call anyone names. You can state your opinion just fine without name calling.
Same goes for everyone here. Never forget, politics is hard work. People aren't necessarily going to feel great when they debate on political subjects, but try to channel any anger into taking apart points with better counterpoints.
Look I know that you have a to be a moderate voice on these boards and I’m not trying to make your job harder but Nate and STD have constantly posted and made blatantly false statements or peddled misinformation in this thread. Just a few examples are:
1. Uranium One
2. The Nunes memos
3. The Seth Rich conspiracy
4. Susan Rice unmasking
5. The MAGA bomber being a false flag by the Democrats (one that a couple other posters mentioned and never apologized for)
6. George Soros
If they would own up and admit that they were wrong and this was all a load of bull it’s one thing, but the fact that they continue to double down signifies that no one should take them seriously. So when I call them clowns (which I apologize for) it’s in the context of all the bull **** they’ve been peddling for the past 2 years and in STDs case continues to post even to today. As for personal attacks STD and TGW have made attacks against me and I’ve never once hit that report button. It’s politics and things get heated but I don’t take things personal because frankly this is just a messageboard. But I think it degrades that quality when you have posters that refuse to argue in good faith and post purposely post lies or misinformation.
Nate is one of the best basketball minds and commentators I've encountered here or anywhere. Politically, I don't agree with him on much of anything. He's cantankerous, I'm sarcastic. Take your pick.
Still, Nate is to me clearly not the same as STD. Agree with his sourcing and interpretation or don't, but he generally leaves a clear trail of evidence for you to consider and rebut if you choose. That's what this thread is for, and when you focus on that, you do a fine job.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
dckingsfan
- RealGM
- Posts: 35,251
- And1: 20,654
- Joined: May 28, 2010
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
Pointgod wrote: As for personal attacks STD and TGW have made attacks against me and I’ve never once hit that report button. It’s politics and things get heated but I don’t take things personal because frankly this is just a messageboard. But I think it degrades that quality when you have posters that refuse to argue in good faith and post purposely post lies or misinformation.
Props for that by the way - in all the disagreements we have had - you have never leveled a personal attack on me... just saying - I can see where that hasn't been a two way street for you.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
montestewart
- Forum Mod - Wizards

- Posts: 14,829
- And1: 7,963
- Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
dckingsfan wrote:Pointgod wrote: As for personal attacks STD and TGW have made attacks against me and I’ve never once hit that report button. It’s politics and things get heated but I don’t take things personal because frankly this is just a messageboard. But I think it degrades that quality when you have posters that refuse to argue in good faith and post purposely post lies or misinformation.
Props for that by the way - in all the disagreements we have had - you have never leveled a personal attack on me... just saying - I can see where that hasn't been a two way street for you.
Agreed. Pointgod, I am trying to crack down on personal attacks, and don't mean to single you out. Sometimes work gets in the way and I end up playing catch up.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
Pointgod
- RealGM
- Posts: 24,204
- And1: 24,503
- Joined: Jun 28, 2014
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
nate33 wrote:Pointgod wrote:There’s no proof that the investigation into the Trump campaign wasn’t credible. Remember the whole Nunes memo that was supposed to show definitive proof of FISA abuse? Want me to bring up your embarrassing posts where you claimed that people were going to jail? Echoing clowns like Jim Jordan, Devin Nunes and Matt Gaetz. Considering Trump can direct the Justice department to investigate whatever matter he wants, where are all the indictments from the scandalous Nunes memos?
Trump couldn't investigate the corrupt nature of the FISA warrant while the investigation was ongoing because Democrats would have accused him of obstruction. This isn't over. The investigation into the FISA abuse will start now. We already know that the justification for the FISA warrant was based solely on Steele's unverified dossier and the fact that that dossier was opposition research from the Clinton team was hidden from the court.Pointgod wrote:Here’s a timeline of the investigation into Russia actively interfering in your elections.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/10/12/us/2016-presidential-election-investigation-fast-facts/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
We know that as late as June 2016 that the Trump campaign knew with 100% verifiable proof that Russians were trying to give them dirt on Clinton, we know in the same month that Russians hacked the DNC server and month later Trump **** encouraged Russia to release stolen emails! I don’t give a **** if you think he was joking, this is extremely wreckless and legitimately needs to be questioned.
I still cannot believe the absurdity of this accusation. If Trump was working with the Russians, and he really wanted them to help him in his election, he would have told them privately through back channels. He wouldn't openly announce it at a campaign rally. Trump was joking about the 30,000 emails that Clinton "lost" on her home server. It had nothing to do with the Russian hacks of the DNC. Trump said verbatim in his speech: “I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.” This whole attempt to conflate the two (DNC hacks and lost Clinton emails) is yet another example of the media conducting a disinformation campaign in an attempt to stop Trump.Pointgod wrote:Along with the timeline we also know that Trump was working on a Trump tower deal with Russia that ended in June 2016 at the earliest but according to Trump’s own lawyer the negotiations continued up until he got elected.
So what? Trump Organization is a company that wants to do business in Russia. This is not a crime, certainly not before Trump was actually the President. If the public didn't want to elect someone who had friendly business relations with Russia, they didn't have to vote for him. But it is not a pretext for the Deep State to try and impeach him.Pointgod wrote:Let’s keep in mind that Mueller may not have found enough evidence to bring charges for criminal activity but we also know that the one guy who really knows where the bodies are buried (Manafort) decided he’d rather go to jail than cooperate
Or maybe there was nothing to cooperate about because Trump committed no crime. Do you really think Manafort was so loyal to Trump that he would go to jail for him? Trump fired Manafort unceremoniously just 5 months after hiring him.Pointgod wrote:and Mueller never sat down to interview Trump.
Yes, because just about everyone who sat down with Mueller got manipulated into a perjury trap process crime.Pointgod wrote:And at no time did they go to the FBI with this information. So either the Trump campaign was colluding and did enough to hide their crimes or they’re useful idiots and easily manipulated by a foreign power, either way not a good look.
Go to the FBI for what? Russia said they wanted to set up a meeting to talk about dirt on Clinton, but the meeting was only about the Magnitsky Act.Pointgod wrote:I’m assuming you’re just going to ignore everything I’ve written the the evidence supporting my arguments so I want to point this out to you. You and STD claim that Hillary Clinton is treasonous for selling out to Russia in the Uranium One scandal (which is 100% bull). Then you should view Trump as committing treason as well considering we have proof he was negotiating with a hostile foreign power and has been Putin’s mouthpiece knowing that Russia was interfering with the election.
That's a lie. There is no proof whatsoever of Trump "negotiating with a hostile power" other than the totally appropriate conversation between Michael Flynn and Russian representatives after Trump was already elected and Flynn was on the transition team. The Trump administration has been tougher on Russia than any since Reagan. I never said Clinton was treasonous for the Uranium One scandal but I do think it's fishy and worthy of some scrutiny.
Bolded is completely untrue or else the Nunes memo would have proved that. The fact is the Steele report was one of many supporting documents used to obtain a FISA warrant. I want you to give me a non right wing hack partisan source that says the Steele report was the only thing used to get the FISA warrant. Also the Steele report was not Clinton opposition research, it was started by Republicans as oppo research and continued by the Clinton campaign.
Look I’m just using your own reasoning against you. You claim that the completely debunked Uranium One scandal looks fishy and needs to be looked into, but somehow Trump negotiating with deal with Russia after knowing that they interfered in the election to help him in your own words “looks fishy and needs to be investigated”.
Absolutely these guys should have gone to the FBI with all the contacts made considering what they were doing during the election. You know who went to the FBI because he was concerned with what he read in the Steele dossier? Republican John McCain at the behest of Lindsey Graham. Now if Trump actually cared about the country and not himself he would have done exactly that when Russians actually reached out to his campaign. As soon as you know that Russia is interfering you don’t “joke” about them hacking Hillary Clinton’s servers you come out and make a strong statement against election interfering.
If Trump was completely innocent as he claims then he would have sat down with Mueller and told him the TRUTH no matter how personally embarrassing it would be. That’s not a perjury trap. Cohen, Manafort, Flynn, Gates are all going to jail for real crimes. It’s possible that these guys are just idiots that run their mouth too much but that doesn’t make it any less damning that they were happy be willing Russian pawns.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
-
dckingsfan
- RealGM
- Posts: 35,251
- And1: 20,654
- Joined: May 28, 2010
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
montestewart wrote:dckingsfan wrote:Pointgod wrote: As for personal attacks STD and TGW have made attacks against me and I’ve never once hit that report button. It’s politics and things get heated but I don’t take things personal because frankly this is just a messageboard. But I think it degrades that quality when you have posters that refuse to argue in good faith and post purposely post lies or misinformation.
Props for that by the way - in all the disagreements we have had - you have never leveled a personal attack on me... just saying - I can see where that hasn't been a two way street for you.
Agreed. Pointgod, I am trying to crack down on personal attacks, and don't mean to single you out. Sometimes work gets in the way and I end up playing catch up.
I didn't your post was intended that way, I thought you were trying to make the point that there are posters that try to have a discussion and rational arguments and some that tend to attack the poster and you would rather have the former than the latter.
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
- pancakes3
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,593
- And1: 3,023
- Joined: Jul 27, 2003
- Location: Virginia
- Contact:
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
nate33 wrote:The investigation into the FISA abuse will start now. We already know that the justification for the FISA warrant was based solely on Steele's unverified dossier and the fact that that dossier was opposition research from the Clinton team was hidden from the court.
fake news, bro. you have to stop harping on the FISA warrants.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/fbi-makes-public-fisa-warrant-former-trump-campaign-aide-carter-n893466
the most infuriating thing about the russian investigation is the knee-jerk instinct that everything is corrupt and conspiratorial.
it's simply the system of checks and balances at work. this is a good thing. however, if you question the system, undermine the system, and make the system partisan instead of independent, then the system doesn't work. simple as that.
Bullets -> Wizards
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
- nate33
- Forum Mod - Wizards

- Posts: 70,644
- And1: 23,118
- Joined: Oct 28, 2002
Re: Political Roundtable Part XXV
Pointgod wrote:Bolded is completely untrue or else the Nunes memo would have proved that. The fact is the Steele report was one of many supporting documents used to obtain a FISA warrant. I want you to give me a non right wing hack partisan source that says the Steele report was the only thing used to get the FISA warrant. Also the Steele report was not Clinton opposition research, it was started by Republicans as oppo research and continued by the Clinton campaign.
Andrew McCabe himself stated under oath that there would not have been possible to obtain the FISA warrant without the Steele Report. And we know that the Steele Report was unverified but an attempt was made to give it more credibility by citing another source, the Yahoo News article, but that was also sourced to the Steele Report.
Pointgod wrote:Look I’m just using your own reasoning against you. You claim that the completely debunked Uranium One scandal looks fishy and needs to be looked into, but somehow Trump negotiating with deal with Russia after knowing that they interfered in the election to help him in your own words “looks fishy and needs to be investigated”.
It's one thing to start an official above-board investigation into a matter, it's another to illegally obtain a FISA warrant and spy on a campaign, and then selectively leak bad and distorted information for the next 2 years to undermine the President.
Pointgod wrote:Absolutely these guys should have gone to the FBI with all the contacts made considering what they were doing during the election. You know who went to the FBI because he was concerned with what he read in the Steele dossier? Republican John McCain at the behest of Lindsey Graham.
Please. McCain went to the FBI because he thought he had an avenue to stick it to his political enemy Donald Trump.
Pointgod wrote:Now if Trump actually cared about the country and not himself he would have done exactly that when Russians actually reached out to his campaign. As soon as you know that Russia is interfering you don’t “joke” about them hacking Hillary Clinton’s servers you come out and make a strong statement against election interfering.
The way the media was so completely incurious about Hillary Clinton's illegal private server and the lost 30,000 emails deserved to be called out by Trump. I thought the joke was really funny. It's the kind of thing that makes me like Trump. I think many others feel the same way.
Pointgod wrote:If Trump was completely innocent as he claims then he would have sat down with Mueller and told him the TRUTH no matter how personally embarrassing it would be. That’s not a perjury trap. Cohen, Manafort, Flynn, Gates are all going to jail for real crimes.
What "real crime" did Flynn commit? And Cohen, Manafort and Gates are going to prison for crimes that they wouldn't have been investigated for if not for their associate with Trump. Maybe Trump has committed some type of crime 15 years ago and doesn't want it to be brought up now when it's totally unrelated to the job he is doing as President. Heck, most people have committed minor crimes at some point and I'm sure most politicians have. Have you ever illegally downloaded something? Have you ever claimed a deduction on a tax form that may be a slight exaggeration? Trump is smart enough not to subject himself to a fishing expedition.





