2018-19 College Hoops

[skones]

Because lots of guys in the NBA are over 240 LBS whereas in college they're not. Moreover, the guys in the paint besides weighing more in the NBA will also be 6'10 or above in most cases (unlike in college) and Zion was measured 6'5.5 last summer. I'm not saying he's now going to be the one getting bullied or anything as obviously with how thick he is he can bang but he's going to run into a lot problems finishing in the paint. And as of now his best skillset role is basically the Giannis role of crashing the rim, difference is Giannis is 6'11 not, 6'6ish. As I said, I still think he's going to be very good and I like everything I see to think he's going to work his balls off to improve in the areas he needs. But he's really going to have to improve on the wing/shooting to match the hype. To just be a very good All Star or slightly below AS level shouldn't be too hard for him, but to match this 'best player ever' bs type hype he really has to improve on the wing.

Mostly here I'm trying to bash the hype, not him. I'd take him #1 and not think twice about it.

240 just isn't going to cut it. The guy is 270+ minimum. His advantage is larger in the NCAA sure, but it's STILL a mammoth gap in the NBA. It's not a situation where he's going to suddenly be going inside on guys who are just as strong. I'm completely fine with his primary skill set being Giannis going to the rim because he doesn't have to come into the NBA and pack on all of that muscle necessary to play that way. That was Lebrons best scoring ability for years and years. Once he got downhill, it was over, and I think you're going to see much of the same with Zion.

As for the hype, I guess I don't see this "best player ever" hype. Nobody is sitting around calling him a better prospect than Lebron. I DO however think his intangibles coupled with his body make him the best prospect SINCE Lebron.

[sdn40]

I just don't see how anyone can watch him play, watch his strength, watch his explosion, and NOT think he's not going to be able to bully everyone in the NBA. The guy is 6'7 280lbs with bounce out of this world AND the motor to maximize all of it. The guy is the biggest baddest dude on the playground whether it's the NBA or the NCAA. Will it be harder? Sure, but guys aren't suddenly going to be able to hold their ground against him in the league.

23 points, 9 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 blocks on **** 70.2TS% and a 40.8 PER and a 20 BPM. That's just out of this world bonkers.

And again, his physicality, coupled with his energy, effort, intangibles, you even mentioned it. Those things are THE THINGS that make him such an excellent prospect. He doesn't have the red flags that some guys with elite athleticism and bodies have in that regard (Wiggins).

That's just it. I don't think that's gonna gonna take him very far. You need more than just pushing guys around if you're 6'-7" and 280 lbs in the NBA. Just my opinion. And let's not get carried away with the baddest guy on the planet. I thought he was gonna cry in the first half when things weren't going his way.

[DingleJerry]

I guess I don't see this "best player ever" hype. Nobody is sitting around calling him a better prospect than Lebron.

I've read some on the main board of this site and yes there is some of that. Tons of 'best since LBJ' and some go as far as to say better prospect than LBJ. So I guess I'm extrapolating a bit to say that if someone says better prospect than LBJ it means best ever because well LBJ was the best prospect ever and is at least the 2nd best player ever.

Was just coming back to post another thing to rip media. Just went to CBS for the first time today. Headline is "Zion disappears when needed most". So these folks spends 5 months just pumping this guy up like crazy just to rip him at first opportunity. Pathetic imo.

[HaroldinGMinor]

I could be totally wrong about Zion because I am not an NBA scout but he seems better suited to the NBA of 1999 rather than the modern day game. To me his value is totally going to depend on if he develops into a good three-point shooter. I don't see him as a guy you build around. He strikes me as a better version of Corliss Williamson, DeJuan Blair, Gary Trent type of guy. On the short side for a power forward, not enough of a J to play small forward. I think the obvious ceiling is Charles Barkley but Chuck Wagon could hit the three.

[DingleJerry]

I could be totally wrong about Zion because I am not an NBA scout but he seems better suited to the NBA of 1999 rather than the modern day game. To me his value is totally going to depend on if he develops into a good three-point shooter. I don't see him as a guy you build around. He strikes me as a better version of Corliss Williamson, DeJuan Blair, Gary Trent type of guy. On the short side for a power forward, not enough of a J to play small forward. I think the obvious ceiling is Charles Barkley but Chuck Wagon could hit the three.

I see that train of thought and have thought it myself. I think it's accurate specifically in regards to the 3 ball. However, the modern NBA also more easily allows for a short PF than 20 years ago so his being 6'6ish isn't as big of an issue as it was then. But yea he has to improve his shot and his shot is hitchy and needs work.

[JayMKE]

Because lots of guys in the NBA are over 240 LBS whereas in college they're not. Moreover, the guys in the paint besides weighing more in the NBA will also be 6'10 or above in most cases (unlike in college) and Zion was measured 6'5.5 last summer. I'm not saying he's now going to be the one getting bullied or anything as obviously with how thick he is he can bang but he's going to run into a lot problems finishing in the paint. And as of now his best skillset role is basically the Giannis role of crashing the rim, difference is Giannis is 6'11 not, 6'6ish. As I said, I still think he's going to be very good and I like everything I see to think he's going to work his balls off to improve in the areas he needs. But he's really going to have to improve on the wing/shooting to match the hype. To just be a very good All Star or slightly below AS level shouldn't be too hard for him, but to match this 'best player ever' bs type hype he really has to improve on the wing.

Mostly here I'm trying to bash the hype, not him. I'd take him #1 and not think twice about it.

240 just isn't going to cut it. The guy is 270+ minimum. His advantage is larger in the NCAA sure, but it's STILL a mammoth gap in the NBA. It's not a situation where he's going to suddenly be going inside on guys who are just as strong. I'm completely fine with his primary skill set being Giannis going to the rim because he doesn't have to come into the NBA. That was Lebrons best scoring ability for years and years. Once he got downhill, it was over, and I think you're going to see much of the same with Zion.

As for the hype, I guess I don't see this "best player ever" hype. Nobody is sitting around calling him a better prospect than Lebron. I DO however think his intangibles coupled with his body make him the best prospect SINCE Lebron.

That's what I'm thinking, people are underestimating the guy if they think he's not going to be able to bully a good portion of NBA players. Is there even anybody in the league right now even listed over 285lbs? DeJuan Blair is a crazy comparison, Blair literally had no cartilage in his knees and Zion is a freak athlete. Now I do worry about how carrying that amount of weight being as explosive of an athlete as he is but I think Zion is a pretty safe bet to not bust just as far as physical intangibles go. Greg Oden probably was the best prospect after Lebron and we saw how that turned out unfortunately, Lebron never being injured is probably the most freaky thing about him.

[skones]

I could be totally wrong about Zion because I am not an NBA scout but he seems better suited to the NBA of 1999 rather than the modern day game. To me his value is totally going to depend on if he develops into a good three-point shooter. I don't see him as a guy you build around. He strikes me as a better version of Corliss Williamson, DeJuan Blair, Gary Trent type of guy. On the short side for a power forward, not enough of a J to play small forward. I think the obvious ceiling is Charles Barkley but Chuck Wagon could hit the three.

You've got guys like Thaddeus Young, Draymond Green, Lebron James, Montrezl Harrell, Marvin Williams, Kyle Kuzma, etc. listed at Power Forward now. If anything, the league is going smaller, and that actually helps Zion more than it negates it in regards to 1999 vs 2019. The stretch four is paramount to his success, and those guys aren't sitting inside (at least for the most part) banging away. They're on the perimeter where he'll be more than capable.

Comparing him to Williamson, Blair, and Trent is an absolute insult. Out of all of the players to choose from, you go with ground bound players? Like c'mon.

We here get annoyed at guys who say, "meh, Giannis will never be great without a J blah blah blah blah blah," it'll be the same with Zion.

[HaroldinGMinor]

I could be totally wrong about Zion because I am not an NBA scout but he seems better suited to the NBA of 1999 rather than the modern day game. To me his value is totally going to depend on if he develops into a good three-point shooter. I don't see him as a guy you build around. He strikes me as a better version of Corliss Williamson, DeJuan Blair, Gary Trent type of guy. On the short side for a power forward, not enough of a J to play small forward. I think the obvious ceiling is Charles Barkley but Chuck Wagon could hit the three.

You've got guys like Thaddeus Young, Draymond Green, Lebron James, Montrezl Harrell, Marvin Williams, Kyle Kuzma, etc. listed at Power Forward now. If anything, the league is going smaller, and that actually helps Zion more than it negates it in regards to 1999 vs 2019. The stretch four is paramount to his success, and those guys aren't sitting inside (at least for the most part) banging away. They're on the perimeter where he'll be more than capable.

Comparing him to Williamson, Blair, and Trent is an absolute insult. Out of all of the players to choose from, you go with ground bound players? Like c'mon.

We here get annoyed at guys who say, "meh, Giannis will never be great without a J blah blah blah blah blah," it'll be the same with Zion.

Cool. Agree to disagree with you, Jerry Krause.

[DingleJerry]

Because lots of guys in the NBA are over 240 LBS whereas in college they're not. Moreover, the guys in the paint besides weighing more in the NBA will also be 6'10 or above in most cases (unlike in college) and Zion was measured 6'5.5 last summer. I'm not saying he's now going to be the one getting bullied or anything as obviously with how thick he is he can bang but he's going to run into a lot problems finishing in the paint. And as of now his best skillset role is basically the Giannis role of crashing the rim, difference is Giannis is 6'11 not, 6'6ish. As I said, I still think he's going to be very good and I like everything I see to think he's going to work his balls off to improve in the areas he needs. But he's really going to have to improve on the wing/shooting to match the hype. To just be a very good All Star or slightly below AS level shouldn't be too hard for him, but to match this 'best player ever' bs type hype he really has to improve on the wing.

Mostly here I'm trying to bash the hype, not him. I'd take him #1 and not think twice about it.

240 just isn't going to cut it. The guy is 270+ minimum. His advantage is larger in the NCAA sure, but it's STILL a mammoth gap in the NBA. It's not a situation where he's going to suddenly be going inside on guys who are just as strong. I'm completely fine with his primary skill set being Giannis going to the rim because he doesn't have to come into the NBA. That was Lebrons best scoring ability for years and years. Once he got downhill, it was over, and I think you're going to see much of the same with Zion.

As for the hype, I guess I don't see this "best player ever" hype. Nobody is sitting around calling him a better prospect than Lebron. I DO however think his intangibles coupled with his body make him the best prospect SINCE Lebron.

That's what I'm thinking, people are underestimating the guy if they think he's not going to be able to bully a good portion of NBA players. Is there even anybody in the league right now even listed over 285lbs? DeJuan Blair is a crazy comparison, Blair literally had no cartilage in his knees and Zion is a freak athlete. Now I do worry about how carrying that amount of weight being as explosive of an athlete as he is but I think Zion is a pretty safe bet to not bust just as far as physical intangibles go. Greg Oden probably was the best prospect after Lebron and we saw how that turned out unfortunately, Lebron never being injured is probably the most freaky thing about him.

But 240 is pretty much the minimum that NBA bigs are. plenty are gonna be in his ballpark of weight while being 5 inches taller. His quick twitch burst and ability to get going downhill ala LBJ should help a ton in this regard. But again, he's going to have to get way better on the wing (not just shooting) to have the ball handling to do this the way LBJ and Giannis do. I think he has a great chance to get there.

I know I'm coming off as a basher here and that's really not what I'm trying, I'm merely saying at 6'6 he's not going to be able to only play in the paint and his perimeter game is lacking as of now. If he was 6'10+ I would have no doubt he could just come in right away and play Giannis style. 6'6 though he's gonna have to develop on the wing in a way Giannis really doesn't need to (though we still hope he does).

[skones]

But 240 is pretty much the minimum that NBA bigs are. plenty are gonna be in his ballpark of weight while being 5 inches taller.

There aren't guys in the league that are in his ballpark as far as weight (and strength I suppose) unless you're talking about the biggest centers in the league (Boban, Nurkic). Certainly not "plenty in his ballpark." It's easy to sit back and say that, but if you take a deeper look, he's in really rare air.

[sdn40]

But 240 is pretty much the minimum that NBA bigs are. plenty are gonna be in his ballpark of weight while being 5 inches taller.

There aren't guys in the league that are in his ballpark as far as weight (and strength I suppose) unless you're talking about the biggest centers in the league (Boban, Nurkic). Certainly not "plenty in his ballpark." It's easy to sit back and say that, but if you take a deeper look, he's in really rare air.

He's also in the rarest of air being 6'-7" at that weight - not 7'-0." He's got hops and explosion for sure, just not sure how he can be used. He can't "Shaq" everyone, but I don't think he can survive as a wing either.

[DingleJerry]

But 240 is pretty much the minimum that NBA bigs are. plenty are gonna be in his ballpark of weight while being 5 inches taller.

There aren't guys in the league that are in his ballpark as far as weight (and strength I suppose) unless you're talking about the biggest centers in the league (Boban, Nurkic). Certainly not "plenty in his ballpark. It's easy to sit back and say that, but if you take a deeper look, he's in really rare air.

those are gonna be the guys waiting at the rim for him. They're 240-270 and 5 inches taller. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying he's going to struggle finishing against them. Just think of Brook for us, similar weight and 6-8 inches taller. And again it's not like I'm saying he's gonna suck or not finish a lot of the time (especially with pro offense rules in the NBA) but that it's going to massively more difficult than in college and his %s will drop drastically. But then there is another portion of teams that have a 5 like IDK Collins on ATL who isn't thick at all, Zion should have no problem rim running vs those types.

I also think once in an NBA training program he's gonna trim the baby fat that is clearly on him now. He might technically lose weight but with NBA training he'll probably actually get stronger and I think it will help him on the wing. this applies to his opponents too who aren't listed as heavy as him, they might be lighter but have years of NBA strength training.

IDK, I guess I'm crazy for saying a 6'6 guy is going to have trouble playing big man in the NBA.

[machu46]

Seems crazy that a lot of fans of a team with Giannis think that Zion's lack of a jumpshot (which isn't even that bad right now) is going to stop him from becoming a great NBA player. He's pretty much an unstoppable force. Sag off on him and you have 280 lbs flying at you at full speed with both exceptional leaping ability and also feathery touch around the rim if he doesn't simply dunk it. Play tight and he'll either just brush you off if you're smaller or blow by you if you're bigger. Give Zion NBA spacing and he seems like as sure a thing as we've seen since LeBron IMO.

The only way I see him not being a perennial all-star is if he gets injured.

[RiotPunch]

But 240 is pretty much the minimum that NBA bigs are. plenty are gonna be in his ballpark of weight while being 5 inches taller.

There aren't guys in the league that are in his ballpark as far as weight (and strength I suppose) unless you're talking about the biggest centers in the league (Boban, Nurkic). Certainly not "plenty in his ballpark. It's easy to sit back and say that, but if you take a deeper look, he's in really rare air.

those are gonna be the guys waiting at the rim for him. They're 240-270 and 5 inches taller. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying he's going to struggle finishing against them. Just think of Brook for us, similar weight and 6-8 inches taller. And again it's not like I'm saying he's gonna suck or not finish a lot of the time (especially with pro offense rules in the NBA) but that it's going to massively more difficult than in college and his %s will drop drastically. But then there is another portion of teams that have a 5 like IDK Collins on ATL who isn't thick at all, Zion should have no problem rim running vs those types.

I also think once in an NBA training program he's gonna trim the baby fat that is clearly on him now. He might technically lose weight but with NBA training he'll probably actually get stronger and I think it will help him on the wing. this applies to his opponents too who aren't listed as heavy as him, they might be lighter but have years of NBA strength training.

IDK, I guess I'm crazy for saying a 6'6 guy is going to have trouble playing big man in the NBA.

A 6'6" guy with a 6'10" wingspan and 40+" vertical. He's going to be fine, IMO.

[jschligs]

Zion is going to be amazing. My only concern would be his longevity or the health of his knees if he doesn't shed some weight. Which, I think he'll do no problem. But he will 100% have a much more difficult time getting to the rim. He'll still dominate though.

[DingleJerry]

For sure, barring injury I have no doubt he's going to be a really good player. I'd be shocked if he's not at least a borderline All Star type like a Julius Randle type within a couple years, And all the intangibles seem to be there so I expect him to go above and beyond that if all goes well. Call it nitpicking I guess, I was merely stating to go from good normal all star player to in the talks of best player in the whole league and/or ever he's going to have to expand to the perimeter and not live only in the paint.

[raysbookclub]

Zion is Larry Johnson without gold caps in his mouth, makes for a really interesting study: how would Larry Johnson do in today's NBA.

Watch on YouTube

[crkone]

There aren't guys in the league that are in his ballpark as far as weight (and strength I suppose) unless you're talking about the biggest centers in the league (Boban, Nurkic). Certainly not "plenty in his ballpark. It's easy to sit back and say that, but if you take a deeper look, he's in really rare air.

those are gonna be the guys waiting at the rim for him. They're 240-270 and 5 inches taller. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying he's going to struggle finishing against them. Just think of Brook for us, similar weight and 6-8 inches taller. And again it's not like I'm saying he's gonna suck or not finish a lot of the time (especially with pro offense rules in the NBA) but that it's going to massively more difficult than in college and his %s will drop drastically. But then there is another portion of teams that have a 5 like IDK Collins on ATL who isn't thick at all, Zion should have no problem rim running vs those types.

I also think once in an NBA training program he's gonna trim the baby fat that is clearly on him now. He might technically lose weight but with NBA training he'll probably actually get stronger and I think it will help him on the wing. this applies to his opponents too who aren't listed as heavy as him, they might be lighter but have years of NBA strength training.

IDK, I guess I'm crazy for saying a 6'6 guy is going to have trouble playing big man in the NBA.

A 6'6" guy with a 6'10" wingspan and 40+" vertical. He's going to be fine, IMO.

That's basically Justin Anderson with 40 pounds.

[SirChurros]

Krzyzewski hasn't coached for years. Dude has straight been collecting paychecks while the institution recruits for itself.

Fact. Hard to see as a Duke fan.

[DingleJerry]

Krzyzewski hasn't coached for years. Dude has straight been collecting paychecks while the institution recruits for itself.

Fact. Hard to see as a Duke fan.

But of course the one year they put it together it's just enough to bone Wisconsin

This should make for an interesting FF with so much new blood. Kind of hard to root against anyone. I guess I'd be against MSU the most but then again it would be the B1Gs first titles ince MSU like 20 years ago so even that's ok