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Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up

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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1021 » by RunDogGun » Thu Apr 4, 2019 12:57 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
KLEON wrote:I agree. I would even say that I would let Holmes go and sign the Manimal

I had brought up signing Faried last month. I think it would be awesome, but we would have to sign a quality point guard as well. My thought was Rubio and Faried. I just dont think we have enough cash to sign them both, nor do I think they are on board to coming here. I guess it will all depend on what their respective teams do in the playoffs and how much they can get.

It will also depend on who we draft. I think we have a few options, I just don't know if those options amount to a significant increase in wins.


That would be a very disappointing off season for me.

Well I didn't go into the whole offseason, so I am not sure why you would generalize it that way. But since you judged, who do you think we can get with our current money?

Ideally I would like to draft one or two, and then trade for the other position of need, but like I said, it would depend on where we draft.

Side note: I dont think anyone is aware that Faried is shooting 39% from three since joining the Rockets. Not a volume shooter from deep, but he has hit them when they count.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1022 » by Kerrsed » Thu Apr 4, 2019 1:02 pm

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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1023 » by RunDogGun » Thu Apr 4, 2019 1:23 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1024 » by Crives » Thu Apr 4, 2019 1:23 pm

With Book out we just may finish below Cleveland. At 3 it’s possible to fall to 7 where both Garland and Clarke could be off the board. I see Hunter as BPA at 7 followed by Hayes. We really need to finish top 6.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1025 » by BobbieL » Thu Apr 4, 2019 3:03 pm

Crives wrote:With Book out we just may finish below Cleveland. At 3 it’s possible to fall to 7 where both Garland and Clarke could be off the board. I see Hunter as BPA at 7 followed by Hayes. We really need to finish top 6.


pretty sure the Suns are locked into the top 3 for odds no matter what happens

If Booker does have a sprained ankle and not a "sprained ankl" wink wink - shut him down


As for the GM role - Jones mentioned to Gambo and Burns - I don't think it will be Paxson or Mchale
I don't think it will be a young guy like Langdon

so maybe it will be david griffin

might be nice if the so called Suns insiders Gambo - actually broke some damn news - he talks like he knows stuff but he has better "sauces" with the Cardinals Dbacks these days
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1026 » by Crives » Thu Apr 4, 2019 3:06 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Crives wrote:With Book out we just may finish below Cleveland. At 3 it’s possible to fall to 7 where both Garland and Clarke could be off the board. I see Hunter as BPA at 7 followed by Hayes. We really need to finish top 6.


pretty sure the Suns are locked into the top 3 for odds no matter what happens

If Booker does have a sprained ankle and not a "sprained ankl" wink wink - shut him down


As for the GM role - Jones mentioned to Gambo and Burns - I don't think it will be Paxson or Mchale
I don't think it will be a young guy like Langdon


The positioning in the top 3 matters. For example if 2 and 3 don’t land a top 4 pick from lottery, 2 will finish ahead of 3
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1027 » by BobbieL » Thu Apr 4, 2019 3:49 pm

Crives wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Crives wrote:With Book out we just may finish below Cleveland. At 3 it’s possible to fall to 7 where both Garland and Clarke could be off the board. I see Hunter as BPA at 7 followed by Hayes. We really need to finish top 6.


pretty sure the Suns are locked into the top 3 for odds no matter what happens

If Booker does have a sprained ankle and not a "sprained ankl" wink wink - shut him down


As for the GM role - Jones mentioned to Gambo and Burns - I don't think it will be Paxson or Mchale
I don't think it will be a young guy like Langdon


The positioning in the top 3 matters. For example if 2 and 3 don’t land a top 4 pick from lottery, 2 will finish ahead of 3


oh yes, that makes sense :) true post ping pong balls it reverts to record to fill in

suns need a pick that gets them Clarke
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1028 » by KLEON » Thu Apr 4, 2019 4:20 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:I had brought up signing Faried last month. I think it would be awesome, but we would have to sign a quality point guard as well. My thought was Rubio and Faried. I just dont think we have enough cash to sign them both, nor do I think they are on board to coming here. I guess it will all depend on what their respective teams do in the playoffs and how much they can get.

It will also depend on who we draft. I think we have a few options, I just don't know if those options amount to a significant increase in wins.


That would be a very disappointing off season for me.

Well I didn't go into the whole offseason, so I am not sure why you would generalize it that way. But since you judged, who do you think we can get with our current money?

Ideally I would like to draft one or two, and then trade for the other position of need, but like I said, it would depend on where we draft.

Side note: I dont think anyone is aware that Faried is shooting 39% from three since joining the Rockets. Not a volume shooter from deep, but he has hit them when they count.

Trust me I know and that's why I want him here along with the high energy he brings on defense
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1029 » by bwgood77 » Thu Apr 4, 2019 4:29 pm

KLEON wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
That would be a very disappointing off season for me.

Well I didn't go into the whole offseason, so I am not sure why you would generalize it that way. But since you judged, who do you think we can get with our current money?

Ideally I would like to draft one or two, and then trade for the other position of need, but like I said, it would depend on where we draft.

Side note: I dont think anyone is aware that Faried is shooting 39% from three since joining the Rockets. Not a volume shooter from deep, but he has hit them when they count.

Trust me I know and that's why I want him here along with the high energy he brings on defense


I know he's made a few this year...but only 7....missed one last night so his % has tumbled down to under 37% since he's taken fewer than 20 3s with the Rockets.

I wouldn't really call him a 3 point shooter even though he's made 7 for the Rockets and he also doesn't really play much D, protect the rim, etc.

But he might be worth signing for the minimum if he's available for a deep bench guy.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1030 » by Damkac » Thu Apr 4, 2019 4:32 pm

suns12345 wrote:
cberry78 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I don't understand the "10X better with Warren off the floor" at all. Most all of our 17 game losing streak was after he went out. We didn't win one game without TJ until Tyler joined on...then without Tyler (and with TJ still out) we only won 1 game...the Pelicans game which we were very lucky to win because of a time out call by Gentry with no timeouts AFTER a 5 second violation with limited minutes from AD and none from Jrue.

Without TJ we've been awful except when Tyler Johnson was able to start at PG, but that was independent of TJ, and I imagine we would have been even better had he been healthy, since we were a lot better before he got injured than during the 17 game losing streak (where Oubre was certainly around).

TJ improved a great deal defensively this year. You are just going off reputation. While a guy like Oubre is more flashy and gets more blocks and steals, TJ is the better team and off ball defender...less of a gambler type.

Him and JJ were 64th and 65th in DRPM while Oubre was 83rd http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/5

He also improved in the passing/assist department but that's never really been his role either. Oubre is similar there though.

I would consider starting Oubre at PF if we can't find one though. At that point, you really could use a guy like TJ off the bench...since your bench would be thin with scoring options.

I still say TJ is the only one of our wings that has close to the size needed to play the 4, and with his shooting he's capable of playing a BIG 2 as well. I'm pretty sure we've even used him to cover some of the "smaller" 5's at times over the last couple years. There's so much versatility in TJ's game that he's more than worth his contract value, and it's just plain insanity to pin any of the blame of the last couple of seasons on him.


All this "trade TJ/dont trade TJ" talk is frustrating to me (and I agree with what you have said above)

I think you'd be silly not to see the value TJ has relative to his contract, as a shooter, as a scorer, as a versatile wing.

That being said, the fact he is valuable means he is the best piece we have to trade and fill other holes on the roster given the number of other wings we have. If we trade our low value guys (Jackson, bender), there is a 99% chance we get low value back - that's just how it works.

Bottom line in my view, trade TJ if there is a package that makes us better. Keep him if there isn't and find him minutes as he is a positive player. Trading him isn't a question of his value, his value is the reason you would consider trading him.

Too many people on here imo are confusing wanting to trade him with that meaning he is a bad player, or are justifying trading him in their minds by saying he is bad and is the reason we are losing. This isn't 2K, you cant just trade your junk players with no value for all stars.

Why not trade Booker or Ayton then? Their value is even higher.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1031 » by Waylay13 » Thu Apr 4, 2019 4:49 pm

Damkac wrote:
suns12345 wrote:
cberry78 wrote:I still say TJ is the only one of our wings that has close to the size needed to play the 4, and with his shooting he's capable of playing a BIG 2 as well. I'm pretty sure we've even used him to cover some of the "smaller" 5's at times over the last couple years. There's so much versatility in TJ's game that he's more than worth his contract value, and it's just plain insanity to pin any of the blame of the last couple of seasons on him.


All this "trade TJ/dont trade TJ" talk is frustrating to me (and I agree with what you have said above)

I think you'd be silly not to see the value TJ has relative to his contract, as a shooter, as a scorer, as a versatile wing.

That being said, the fact he is valuable means he is the best piece we have to trade and fill other holes on the roster given the number of other wings we have. If we trade our low value guys (Jackson, bender), there is a 99% chance we get low value back - that's just how it works.

Bottom line in my view, trade TJ if there is a package that makes us better. Keep him if there isn't and find him minutes as he is a positive player. Trading him isn't a question of his value, his value is the reason you would consider trading him.

Too many people on here imo are confusing wanting to trade him with that meaning he is a bad player, or are justifying trading him in their minds by saying he is bad and is the reason we are losing. This isn't 2K, you cant just trade your junk players with no value for all stars.

Why not trade Booker or Ayton then? Their value is even higher.


Because they are the core of the team. Warren is a useful piece but he is not going to be the player that will make or break this team. As a matter of fact I dont believe that he can even shape the identity of this team. We have seen that from Johnson, Bridges, Jackson and Oubre we have a team that will create defensive havoc forcing the other team team into a lot of mistakes and turnovers. If TJ stays you can count on the Suns staying with the high scoring poor defense idea that they have had for 50 years.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1032 » by KLEON » Thu Apr 4, 2019 5:06 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
KLEON wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:Well I didn't go into the whole offseason, so I am not sure why you would generalize it that way. But since you judged, who do you think we can get with our current money?

Ideally I would like to draft one or two, and then trade for the other position of need, but like I said, it would depend on where we draft.

Side note: I dont think anyone is aware that Faried is shooting 39% from three since joining the Rockets. Not a volume shooter from deep, but he has hit them when they count.

Trust me I know and that's why I want him here along with the high energy he brings on defense


I know he's made a few this year...but only 7....missed one last night so his % has tumbled down to under 37% since he's taken fewer than 20 3s with the Rockets.

I wouldn't really call him a 3 point shooter even though he's made 7 for the Rockets and he also doesn't really play much D, protect the rim, etc.

But he might be worth signing for the minimum if he's available for a deep bench guy.

Are you sure you're talking about the Manimal?
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1033 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Apr 4, 2019 5:07 pm

Honestly TJ's latest injury might keep him on the team this summer. If teams are concerned with his injury woes and unwilling to consider him a positive asset in a package then they should just keep him. I don't think he's a particularly good fit on this roster but he is a useful player when healthy and they can't be in the business of getting rid of useful players without getting one back in return.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1034 » by BobbieL » Thu Apr 4, 2019 5:50 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Honestly TJ's latest injury might keep him on the team this summer. If teams are concerned with his injury woes and unwilling to consider him a positive asset in a package then they should just keep him. I don't think he's a particularly good fit on this roster but he is a useful player when healthy and they can't be in the business of getting rid of useful players without getting one back in return.


Suns need a PF and PG. I don't buy this thing about drafting Morant and rolling with he and Tyler. Tyler Johnson was a better option than what the Suns had but I still think he would be at his best, and the teams best as the first guard off the bench. He can play the 1 next to Booker, or the 2 next to a PG.

So, with that - the Suns might be able to get PF in the draft with either Zion or Clarke. That still leaves the Suns with 6m of cap space for a PG. Now, they might be able to get a McConnell or somebody cheaper but they need an UPGRADE and that may mean cap space.

Its going to have to be either Josh for a future pick - but thats selling low. OR TJ Warren. But with his injury - who know is they will get fair value. That being said - fair value, who cares. Its time to win. Can't be worried about getting value for the sake of value and not improving the team

I do know the Suns were improved with Oubre & Tyler and would have been nice to see how they meshed with Warren. That being said, its time to push and get some W's.

Griffin interviewing with the Pelicans. Suns have been very quiet.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1035 » by bwgood77 » Thu Apr 4, 2019 6:53 pm

BobbieL wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Honestly TJ's latest injury might keep him on the team this summer. If teams are concerned with his injury woes and unwilling to consider him a positive asset in a package then they should just keep him. I don't think he's a particularly good fit on this roster but he is a useful player when healthy and they can't be in the business of getting rid of useful players without getting one back in return.


Suns need a PF and PG. I don't buy this thing about drafting Morant and rolling with he and Tyler. Tyler Johnson was a better option than what the Suns had but I still think he would be at his best, and the teams best as the first guard off the bench. He can play the 1 next to Booker, or the 2 next to a PG.

So, with that - the Suns might be able to get PF in the draft with either Zion or Clarke. That still leaves the Suns with 6m of cap space for a PG. Now, they might be able to get a McConnell or somebody cheaper but they need an UPGRADE and that may mean cap space.

Its going to have to be either Josh for a future pick - but thats selling low. OR TJ Warren. But with his injury - who know is they will get fair value. That being said - fair value, who cares. Its time to win. Can't be worried about getting value for the sake of value and not improving the team

I do know the Suns were improved with Oubre & Tyler and would have been nice to see how they meshed with Warren. That being said, its time to push and get some W's.

Griffin interviewing with the Pelicans. Suns have been very quiet.


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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1036 » by SunsLyf3 » Thu Apr 4, 2019 7:13 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Honestly TJ's latest injury might keep him on the team this summer. If teams are concerned with his injury woes and unwilling to consider him a positive asset in a package then they should just keep him. I don't think he's a particularly good fit on this roster but he is a useful player when healthy and they can't be in the business of getting rid of useful players without getting one back in return.


Suns need a PF and PG. I don't buy this thing about drafting Morant and rolling with he and Tyler. Tyler Johnson was a better option than what the Suns had but I still think he would be at his best, and the teams best as the first guard off the bench. He can play the 1 next to Booker, or the 2 next to a PG.

So, with that - the Suns might be able to get PF in the draft with either Zion or Clarke. That still leaves the Suns with 6m of cap space for a PG. Now, they might be able to get a McConnell or somebody cheaper but they need an UPGRADE and that may mean cap space.

Its going to have to be either Josh for a future pick - but thats selling low. OR TJ Warren. But with his injury - who know is they will get fair value. That being said - fair value, who cares. Its time to win. Can't be worried about getting value for the sake of value and not improving the team

I do know the Suns were improved with Oubre & Tyler and would have been nice to see how they meshed with Warren. That being said, its time to push and get some W's.

Griffin interviewing with the Pelicans. Suns have been very quiet.




ESPN slandering the Suns. . .again. What a surprise.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1037 » by BobbieL » Thu Apr 4, 2019 7:22 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Honestly TJ's latest injury might keep him on the team this summer. If teams are concerned with his injury woes and unwilling to consider him a positive asset in a package then they should just keep him. I don't think he's a particularly good fit on this roster but he is a useful player when healthy and they can't be in the business of getting rid of useful players without getting one back in return.


Suns need a PF and PG. I don't buy this thing about drafting Morant and rolling with he and Tyler. Tyler Johnson was a better option than what the Suns had but I still think he would be at his best, and the teams best as the first guard off the bench. He can play the 1 next to Booker, or the 2 next to a PG.

So, with that - the Suns might be able to get PF in the draft with either Zion or Clarke. That still leaves the Suns with 6m of cap space for a PG. Now, they might be able to get a McConnell or somebody cheaper but they need an UPGRADE and that may mean cap space.

Its going to have to be either Josh for a future pick - but thats selling low. OR TJ Warren. But with his injury - who know is they will get fair value. That being said - fair value, who cares. Its time to win. Can't be worried about getting value for the sake of value and not improving the team

I do know the Suns were improved with Oubre & Tyler and would have been nice to see how they meshed with Warren. That being said, its time to push and get some W's.

Griffin interviewing with the Pelicans. Suns have been very quiet.



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Bovine Excrement

There are only so many jobs out there. Now maybe the talent pool is small but if you are a guy and you pass on the Suns GM job as something better might come along - it may not.

I just think the Suns want Buk and Champ but want a mentor type guy, buffer more than a GM to take the team over.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1038 » by Saberestar » Thu Apr 4, 2019 8:14 pm

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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1039 » by Blonde » Thu Apr 4, 2019 8:57 pm

Most depressing season of the post-Nash era
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up 

Post#1040 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Apr 4, 2019 9:22 pm

BobbieL wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Suns need a PF and PG. I don't buy this thing about drafting Morant and rolling with he and Tyler. Tyler Johnson was a better option than what the Suns had but I still think he would be at his best, and the teams best as the first guard off the bench. He can play the 1 next to Booker, or the 2 next to a PG.

So, with that - the Suns might be able to get PF in the draft with either Zion or Clarke. That still leaves the Suns with 6m of cap space for a PG. Now, they might be able to get a McConnell or somebody cheaper but they need an UPGRADE and that may mean cap space.

Its going to have to be either Josh for a future pick - but thats selling low. OR TJ Warren. But with his injury - who know is they will get fair value. That being said - fair value, who cares. Its time to win. Can't be worried about getting value for the sake of value and not improving the team

I do know the Suns were improved with Oubre & Tyler and would have been nice to see how they meshed with Warren. That being said, its time to push and get some W's.

Griffin interviewing with the Pelicans. Suns have been very quiet.



Two words for Nichols , Mcgrady and Windbag

Bovine Excrement

There are only so many jobs out there. Now maybe the talent pool is small but if you are a guy and you pass on the Suns GM job as something better might come along - it may not.

I just think the Suns want Buk and Champ but want a mentor type guy, buffer more than a GM to take the team over.


I haven't been very negative about Sarver for some time, and these articles about his conduct haven't affected my views much because only the decisions matter. We stopped shortcutting the rebuild as soon as McD was hired, and obviously it's been the correct call. It's cost Sarver hugely in terms of ticket sale, but I'm confident it will pay out in the long term. All of the decisions that pissed me off - the disgusting 2004-2007 drafts, not extending JJ (against Colangelo's advice), trading Kurt Thomas, Turkoglu/Childress/Warrick, and drafting pudgy players instead of athletes (Kendall Marshall and Markieff Morris) - are too far back in the longterm mirror for me to be mad about anymore.

IMO, the most crucial thing for the owner is to maintain a patient and long-term perspective, with the goal of maximizing the number of championships the team wins over the long-term. I don't care about goats **** or hollering over the phone. I'm confident that the most meaningful mistakes were McDonough's, and fortunately, we haven't totally bombed, since at least we got the big hits with Booker and Ayton, and we've collected some promising (if to date disappointing) young players in the process as well. What's important is that Sarver CORRECTLY approved the tank, avoided huge long-term contracts, and prioritized the draft. Now, it looks like we're executing a PATIENT SWITCH to competing with the promising young core we've assembled.

It will be easy for the haters to hate as long as we're losing. When we start winning, we should stay near the top for a long time with this group, and no one will care about Sarver's reputation. Nor, then, should Sarver. GET THEM CHAMPIONSHIPS, ROBERT!!!

So to the point... it's hard to evaluate GM talent. There are very few people in this league with a record of consistent, proven success. It's basically Jerry West, Jerry Colangelo, Greg Popovich, now Danny Ainge and Bob Myer, as well as Sean Ford, who has also quickly developed a strong track record. Trajan Langdon looks like the hot guy right now, but McDonough was there for a minute following Ainge's success in Boston. It's just hard to know whether a guy has the eye. From what I've read, Sarver's might actually be better than McDonough's, and if that's the case, I have a really hard time blaming Sarver when any expert would tell the owner to TRUST YOUR PEOPLE on draft night.

I like what I've seen from Jones and Bukstein and what I've heard from James Jones in interviews. Of course, James has the luxury of inheriting a team on the rise, and he's able to speak the truth: that we like our guys and intend to improve, primarily, internally. McD, OTOH, was IMO constantly in the position of having to tank without appearing to tank, in order to accommodate to some extent the players on our roster whom we were holding, essentially, as commodities: Bledsoe, the Morris twins, Dragic, IT, Tucker, and even Green, Chandler and Knight (before they lost all their potential value). That strategy had a half-life from the outset, because these guys were going to figure out that this team was tanking eventually, and that they had no future here. I always thought McD had to talk out of both sides of his mouth to make the stealth tank work. JJ doesn't have to, so he's not. And he's saying the right things.

So I could care less about who becomes GM, as long as it's not a guy like Paxson or McHale, both of whom have pretty crap track records, or DAVID GRIFFIN, whose track record is FREAKING TERRIBLE. I do not want the VP who advocated drafting Anthony Bennett #1, the GM who traded two Cavs future firsts for Timofey Mozgov and then signed him to one of the league's worst contracts, and who signed Tristan Thompson and JR Smith to those massive contracts. What are his accomplishments, aside from being there when LeBron James decided to gift the team with his presence?

Instead of acquiring a GM, why not find a way to promote both James Jones and Trevor Bukstein, and invest in filling out the front office to their satisfaction? Certainly there must be some experienced people willing to take a pay bump in order to provide some assistance who don't need to be made general manager.

I'd of course go with Trajan Langdon if we didn't already have Jones and Bukstein. Would Bukstein stick around as assistant GM if Jones were made President? Would Jones be happy with any position other than GM?

All we need to do is not screw up this offseason. Don't trade low on JJ. Don't get killed on a TJ trade or the Oubre extension. Don't screw up the draft, either by punting or selecting RJ Barrett. Keep your cap flexibility, because the free agent tide may soon turn your way. It's easy. Just STAY THE F***ING COURSE!!!

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