2018-19 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

GSP · Post #241 » by **GSP** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:03 am

Would anyone give Jrue a 3rd team all nba spot over Beal or Kemba?

ardee · Post #242 » by **ardee** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:15 am

GSP wrote:Would anyone give Jrue a 3rd team all nba spot over Beal or Kemba?

Nah I can't see it.

Kyrie and Beal are locks for the third team. Both are closer to the 2nd team (Russ/Dame) than they are to the next best guys IMO.

GSP · Post #243 » by **GSP** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:30 am

ardee wrote:
GSP wrote:Would anyone give Jrue a 3rd team all nba spot over Beal or Kemba?

Nah I can't see it.

Kyrie and Beal are locks for the third team. Both are closer to the 2nd team (Russ/Dame) than they are to the next best guys IMO.

Kyrie's a lock to me but I'm not so sure about the last guard spot b/w Kemba, Beal and Jrue

This has to be one of the most talented years for depth ever

ardee · Post #244 » by **ardee** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:32 am

GSP wrote:
ardee wrote:
GSP wrote:Would anyone give Jrue a 3rd team all nba spot over Beal or Kemba?

Nah I can't see it.

Kyrie and Beal are locks for the third team. Both are closer to the 2nd team (Russ/Dame) than they are to the next best guys IMO.

Kyrie's a lock to me but I'm not so sure about the last guard spot b/w Kemba, Beal and Jrue

This has to be one of the most talented years for depth ever

Yeah the top end tailed off a little bit after the LeBron and Davis injuries/downturns, still great though, top 5 still probably better than '06, but the top 15-20 is the best ever IMO.

E-Balla · Post #245 » by **E-Balla** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:38 pm

GSP wrote:Would anyone give Jrue a 3rd team all nba spot over Beal or Kemba?

Jrue has played 67 games and is out for the season. Hell no.

E-Balla · Post #246 » by **E-Balla** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:45 pm

ardee wrote:
GSP wrote:Would anyone give Jrue a 3rd team all nba spot over Beal or Kemba?

Nah I can't see it.

Kyrie and Beal are locks for the third team. Both are closer to the 2nd team (Russ/Dame) than they are to the next best guys IMO.

Kemba > Beal. 25/5/6 (same as Beal), a team leading +8 on/off and a +1 net rating (Beal has a +4 on/off and a -2 net rating), 55 TS% (Beal has a 59 TS%), 75th in RAPM (Beal is 117th), and a 111 ORTG (Beal has a 114) while being 5 games ahead of the Wizards.

eminence · Post #247 » by **eminence** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:54 pm

My All-NBA picks are still pretty up in the air. 3 centers are certainly Embiid/Jokic/Gobert, Towns is a no-no. Top 3 forwards are easily PG13/Giannis/KD after that gets tricky, not nearly as into Kawhi as some. Kind of like Siakam/Ingles. Griffin a contender. Gallinari a darkhorse. LeBron might sneak a 3rd team, but honestly it'll be tough if he sits the rest of the way. Guards have a clear top 2 in Harden/Curry and I think Dame is a clear 2nd teamer, who knows after that. I have Jrue as a serious contender along with Conley and others previously mentioned. Beal I don't think is a serious pick. Butler could sneak in if I have an opening at either guard or forward.

GSP · Post #248 » by **GSP** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:42 pm

E-Balla wrote:
GSP wrote:Would anyone give Jrue a 3rd team all nba spot over Beal or Kemba?

Jrue has played 67 games and is out for the season. Hell no.

Damn just read he was out for the season. Thats too bad

E-Balla · Post #249 » by **E-Balla** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:18 pm

eminence wrote:My All-NBA picks are still pretty up in the air. 3 centers are certainly Embiid/Jokic/Gobert, Towns is a no-no.

So usually I'd be on board but I gotta take KAT this year as the favorite to deserve that 3rd team spot by the end of the year. Statistically we're looking at:

KAT:
24.7/12.5/3.3 on 62.7 TS% with a 120 ORTG, 2.5 steals and blocks a night, a team leading (for players over 1000 minutes) +2.0 net rating and +6.4 on/off, +10.91 RPM wins, a +1.67 single year RAPM as of 3/7/19 (70th overall), a +5.78 (5th overall) 1.5 year RAPM, and 2352 total minutes.

Gobert:
15.7/12.8/2.0 on 68.2 TS% with a 133 ORTG, 3.0 steals and blocks a night, a distant 2nd to Joe Ingles (over 1000 minutes) +6.4 net rating and +5.2 on/off, +11.87 RPM wins, a +1.79 single year RAPM as of 3/7/19 (62nd overall), a +3.99 (36th overall) 1.5 year RAPM, and 2366 total minutes.

They're as close as it gets IMO right now. If KAT continues to play like he has since the car crash (31/15/4 on 66 TS% nightly) I gotta give him the nod over Gobert. If both of them keep playing at their same overall level I might have to give them a tie for that 3rd team spot.

ardee · Post #250 » by **ardee** » Fri Apr 5, 2019 5:21 am

Giannis might have had his best game of the season. 45/13/6/5 on 22 shots, 0 turnovers... against elite opposition.

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Dr Spaceman · Post #251 » by **Dr Spaceman** » Fri Apr 5, 2019 5:32 am

ardee wrote:Giannis might have had his best game of the season. 45/13/6/5 on 22 shots, 0 turnovers... against elite opposition.

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Excited to watch it after I get off work today. These Eastern Conference marquee matchups has made this season amazing so far.

HeartBreakKid · Post #252 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Fri Apr 5, 2019 5:49 am

How do you guys evaluate Anthony Davis' season? He's benched but not for his lack of ability. I'm assuming most here won't give him much benefit of a doubt?

Post #253 » by **bondom34** » Fri Apr 5, 2019 6:29 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:How do you guys evaluate Anthony Davis' season? He's benched but not for his lack of ability. I'm assuming most here won't give him much benefit of a doubt?

Pretty much did it to himself so nope for me. Also they looked oddly decent when he wasn't playing at times.

MisterHibachi · Post #254 » by **MisterHibachi** » Fri Apr 5, 2019 4:54 pm

How is Giannis comparing to the elite seasons of all time? I think he may be having a top 15-20ish season. How does he compare to young Shaq for example or pre 2011 LeBron?

Post #255 » by **Texas Chuck** » Fri Apr 5, 2019 5:50 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:How do you guys evaluate Anthony Davis' season? He's benched but not for his lack of ability. I'm assuming most here won't give him much benefit of a doubt?

I'm kinda the wrong guy as I think he's always been overrated, but no way would I have him on the all-NBA 3rd team over Gobert.

Colbinii · Post #256 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Apr 5, 2019 6:15 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:How is Giannis comparing to the elite seasons of all time? I think he may be having a top 15-20ish season. How does he compare to young Shaq for example or pre 2011 LeBron?

Top 15 or 20 including the multiple seasons by Jordan, LeBron and Shaq? No. I definitely see him as having a top 15-20 regular season of all-time though [when not counting multiple seasons for greats]. I think he is on par with 2017 Russell Westbrook for the regular season. I'm excited for his post-season.

E-Balla · Post #257 » by **E-Balla** » Fri Apr 5, 2019 6:24 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:How is Giannis comparing to the elite seasons of all time? I think he may be having a top 15-20ish season. How does he compare to young Shaq for example or pre 2011 LeBron?

Not really favorably. Young Shaq and pre 2011 Lebron are way better (and in the case of Lebron many think he peaked pre 2011 so IDK why you'd use him as the benchmark instead of pre 09 Lebron).

E-Balla · Post #258 » by **E-Balla** » Fri Apr 5, 2019 6:28 pm

bondom34 wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:How do you guys evaluate Anthony Davis' season? He's benched but not for his lack of ability. I'm assuming most here won't give him much benefit of a doubt?

Pretty much did it to himself so nope for me. Also they looked oddly decent when he wasn't playing at times.

When he was first benched they went 3-9 before the league forced them to play him again and they're 11-22 overall since the benching vs 21-25 before. I don't think they looked decent without him at all, just decent at scoring. Defensively they looked like the worst team ever in that stretch when he was first benched.

Post #259 » by **bondom34** » Fri Apr 5, 2019 6:36 pm

E-Balla wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:How do you guys evaluate Anthony Davis' season? He's benched but not for his lack of ability. I'm assuming most here won't give him much benefit of a doubt?

Pretty much did it to himself so nope for me. Also they looked oddly decent when he wasn't playing at times.

When he was first benched they went 3-9 before the league forced them to play him again and they're 11-22 overall since the benching vs 21-25 before. I don't think they looked decent without him at all, just decent at scoring. Defensively they looked like the worst team ever in that stretch when he was first benched.

I think (though it may have changed) they were a little better with him on the bench for a bit.there. I could be mistaken.

Post #260 » by **Outside** » Fri Apr 5, 2019 9:27 pm

Colbinii wrote:
MisterHibachi wrote:How is Giannis comparing to the elite seasons of all time? I think he may be having a top 15-20ish season. How does he compare to young Shaq for example or pre 2011 LeBron?

Top 15 or 20 including the multiple seasons by Jordan, LeBron and Shaq? No. I definitely see him as having a top 15-20 regular season of all-time though [when not counting multiple seasons for greats]. I think he is on par with 2017 Russell Westbrook for the regular season. I'm excited for his post-season.

This type of thing has been tossed around a little casually in the past few years. Curry's 2015-16 RS was historic in multiple regards, and many consider it one of the top offensive seasons ever. Then Westbrook had the first triple-double season since Oscar and the only the second one ever, which was historic, and now he's done the two seasons since. Harden's scoring is in the territory of Wilt and MJ.

So Giannis is having a great all-around season with exceptional numbers, and since the historic label has been bandied about more freely, it gets applied to his season as well. But "historic" and "top 15-20ish" are in reference to the entire history of the NBA, and there have been a lot of great players who have had great seasons. It's fair to say Giannis has had a great season, but historical perspective is difficult to come by in the moment, especially since the vast majority of fans don't have 50+ years experience watching the NBA.

It doesn't have to be top 20 to be great. It could be a top 100 or top 200 season and still be great. I personally consider Harden's season more historic while also considering Giannis the MVP.