Around the NBA (3.0), 2018-19 (Non-Celtics Talk)

[exculpatory]

I don't think he was better than Wade at the end of the day.
(Only sentence with which I disagree.)

I agree with every word my long time bud Bruno has written above in his thoughtful post - EXCEPT for the sentence in red.

First ballot HOFER/TOP FOUR 15 year Celtic Legend/Finals MVP/Top 30-40 NBA PLAYER ALL TIME - most definitely, the MOST underrated SUPER STAR of his generation:

*26,397 points & the FIFTEENTH leading scorer in NBA history!!! (2 more points than Hondo);
*FOURTH in NBA history in 3 point shots made (2141);
*One of THREE players in NBA history with >25K points (26,397), >7000 rebounds (7527), >4000 assists (4708) & >1500 steals (1752) in 1343 games (1102 as a Celtic) & 45,880 minutes played (40,360 as a Celtic);
*Arguably the most clutch player of his generation with COUNTLESS/INNUMERABLE end of game daggers & game winners (and I personally witnessed 3 of those daggers - in DC twice & at MSG);
*Career: TS% 57%; Overall FG% 45%; 3 point % 37%;
*Finals MVP 2008 (& should have won 2 more titles in 2010 [Game 7 STILL HURTS] & 2009);
*Led the league in most points scored in the 4th quarter numerous times;
*Scored 2,000+ points in a season 4 times & 1760+ points 6 times;
*In 10 games for the Wizards in the POs in 2015 - AT AGE 37 1/2:
15 PPG on 49% & TS% 68% & 52% from 3 (33-63 - most of them MEGA-CLUTCH) & 4.2RPG playing only 30 MPG & attempting only 10 FGAs per game;
MAGNIFICENT & supernatural clutchness at ANY AGE - let alone at the geriatric basketball age of 37 1/2!

AND (with assist from RealGM poster - Big Baby):
- COUNTLESS daggers and game winners. COUNTLESS.
- Led the league in most points scored in the 4th quarter numerous times.
- Scored 2,000+ points in a season multiple times.
- 31 points in his first ever playoff game.
- 46 points in Game 5 (in the best of five) against Iverson's Sixers who went to the Finals the year before. Iverson never beat Pierce after that with or without Iguodala.
- 41 points in Game 7 against Jebron Lames.
- 38 points in Game 5 of the 2008 Finals against the Lakers. Would've clinched Banner 17 that night had anyone else shown up.
- Pierce gets injured and the Celtics lose 17 straight games in 2007. Record losing streak ends once Pierce returns.
- 46 points IN THE SECOND HALF against the Nets.
- Eliminated/outplayed Iverson, Kobe, Lebron, Carmelo, TMac, Vince Carter and all other anointed ones during his career.
- Never went for 50 except once against LBJ but could always be counted on to score 25-35 every night and hit the dagger.

And anyone anywhere who thinks what Paul said was “nuts” or “absurd” & not worthy of a robust & honest conversation 1) should be ridiculed for their indescribable ignorance; & 2) can **** themselves in the orifice of their choosing with a very large, rusty, clostridia tetani-infested spoon.

Ex my man. Glad to have you join this convo. Was kind of hoping to see you on the GB thread about it lol..those guys are so pathetic.


Anyways..I think prime Wade was an animal..his peak season was absurd. 30/7/5..Paul's best season numbers wise was his 27/5/6 season. So I do think peak Wade shined a tad bit brighter than Pierce did..but career wise..I'm fully on board with Pierce's being right up there. Pierce was better for longer. The only thing he doesn't have to show for it is the rings..but Wade also wouldn't have those rings if he didn't play with James and that was the main point Pierce made. There is no debate there. Again.. if KG doesn't go down, you're looking at, at least a 2x2 ring count with us beating Miami for the ring in 2012 game 7. But at that stage, Boston probably already has another 2 in the bag. From 09 and 2010.


Boston was easily the most cursed super team..you look at the health Golden State has had and Miami had for 4 seasons..we had health for one. And we won going away..Pierce was always better than his ring count shows..where Wade was probably never as good as the 3 that he got. Wade playing with a top 3 best player of all time certainly helped his cause and I see no surprise in Pierce thinking he would also have won those rings with James. Because he would have. Not sure why people like Gabrielle Union are spitting fire as if that wasn't truth.

If you look at the Celtics team that went 7 with Miami in 2012..just off the top of my head I think LeBron and Bosh were 28, Wade was 30..Pierce was 35, Allen 37 and KG 36.

Can you imagine a 35 year old Wade trying to hang with a 30 year old Pierce? Would it be as close? Not likely. I think that says it all about how great Pierce was.

Post of the year, Bruno!

Highly likely that Paul retires with arguably 4 rings (2008, 2009, 2010, 2012) if KG does not sustain that knee injury on that cursed night in Utah in 2/2009.
Highly likely that Paul retires with 3-5 rings if he was given LeBron to play with for multiple years like Wade was.
Highly likely that Paul retires with 3-5 rings if he was given Shaq as a young stud like Kobe was or he was given KG 5 years earlier.

I do not think I have ever posted on the GB in 15 years - except once or twice.
And I will not go back & read about the Paul-Wade thing now because it will infuriate me & I may be tempted to post something extremely derogatory toward specific individuals.

PS Bruno, ONCE AGAIN, we are seeing evidence galore that Paul **** Pierce THE TRUTH is unquestionably the most underrated Super Star of the last 20 years - even by some Celtics fans.
Out **** rageous!

[Iguodaladon]

I wish I got to see prime Pierce. He was my favourite player, but I only managed to start catching the games in 2012 when the NBA started showing on TV. At least I managed to catch that awesome ECF series against the Heat

[exculpatory]

I wish I got to see prime Pierce. He was my favourite player, but I only managed to start catching the games in 2012 when the NBA started showing on TV. At least I managed to catch that awesome ECF series against the Heat

Google him.
About 100 great You Tubes out there of career best plays & specific extraordinary games.
He was still outstanding in 2012, but you have not seen the real primo stuff.

[Iguodaladon]

I wish I got to see prime Pierce. He was my favourite player, but I only managed to start catching the games in 2012 when the NBA started showing on TV. At least I managed to catch that awesome ECF series against the Heat

Google him.
About 100 great You Tubes out there of career best plays & specific extraordinary games.
He was still outstanding in 2012, but you have not seen the real primo stuff.

Yeah I was going through his Youtube highlights the other day, he had some great hops to say he was never the most athletic looking guy

[Taget]

Pierce is absolutely correct on two points.

1) Look at Wade's team when they did not have Shaq and did not have Lebron. Pretty good but nothing to write home about. After Shaq left and before Lebron went to Miami it was easy to forget Wade was still in the league.

2) People forget how dominant Shaq was and the affect he always had on his #2 who feasted on his double and triple teams. When Shaq was in Orlando how many people said Penny Hardaway was the best player in the league? When Shaq was in LA how many people said Kobe was the best player in the league? When Shaq was in Miami how many people said Wade was the best player in the league?

Shaq was insanely dominant and when you put an insanely an all-star calibre player next to him they can soar to heights they never would have. Thought experiment. Replace Antoine Walker on those Paul Pierce teams with Shaquille O'Neill. I have a slight hunch at the very least we get past the Brooklyn Nets to go to the finals. And without having to face an LA team led by Shaq I like our chances!

[ConstableGeneva]

Wade just kneed Kawhi in the nuts. All-time dirty player.

[SuperDeluxe]

I guess we'll never really know if Wade was better than Pierce, or vice versa.

One of the two was all about flash while the other was all about substance, and their nicknames are proof of this. In this era of the NBA, flash makes you a marketing icon of the league, which in turn makes you a lifetime sacred cow in the eyes of the referees, which in turn leads to better scoring numbers. Playing alongside the likes of Shaq and LeBron makes the path even easier.

Wade made himself a reputation for hurting players, but ironically also as someone who would complain non-stop to the refs (see unforgettable, shameful, classic tantrum below). Wade was always hurt, while Pierce was a bit of an iron man, playing even just a short while after being stabbed 11 times (and played all 82 games that season).

If you compare career accomplishments, then Wade was better. But if you look a little bit under the surface then the answer is not that clear. I may be biased, but I'd take Pierce 99 times out of 100%.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Rooting for the Raptors right now, because the sooner Wade is eliminated from the playoffs, the better.

[exculpatory]

Pierce is absolutely correct on two points.

1) Look at Wade's team when they did not have Shaq and did not have Lebron. Pretty good but nothing to write home about. After Shaq left and before Lebron went to Miami it was easy to forget Wade was still in the league.

2) People forget how dominant Shaq was and the affect he always had on his #2 who feasted on his double and triple teams. When Shaq was in Orlando how many people said Penny Hardaway was the best player in the league? When Shaq was in LA how many people said Kobe was the best player in the league? When Shaq was in Miami how many people said Wade was the best player in the league?

Shaq was insanely dominant and when you put an insanely all-star calibre player next to him they can soar to heights they never would have. Thought experiment. Replace Antoine Walker on those Paul Pierce teams with Shaquille O'Neill. I have a slight hunch at the very least we get past the Brooklyn Nets to go to the finals. And without having to face an LA team led by Shaq I like our chances!

EXACTLY!

Or put KG rather than Toine with Paul in 2001.
Or put James with Paul in his prime for 5 years.

Truth would have taken EVEN MORE advantage than Wade of having Shaq because of his absolutely elite 3 point shooting. Wade was a non-shooter from distance for much of his career.

[exculpatory]

I guess we'll never really know if Wade was better than Pierce, or vice versa.

One of the two was all about flash while the other was all about substance, and their nicknames are proof of this. In this era of the NBA, flash makes you a marketing icon of the league, which in turn makes you a lifetime sacred cow in the eyes of the referees, which in turn leads to better scoring numbers. Playing alongside the likes of Shaq and LeBron makes the path even easier.

Wade made himself a reputation for hurting players, but ironically also as someone who would complain non-stop to the refs (I wish I had handy the crybaby Wade GIF that was so omnipresent back in the day). Wade was always hurt, while Pierce was a bit of an iron man, playing even just a short while after being stabbed 11 times (and played all 82 games that season).

If you compare career “rings”, then Wade was better.

But if you look a little bit under the surface, then the answer is not that clear. I may be biased, but I'd take Pierce 99 times out of 100.

A b s o f u c k i n g l u t e l y spot on, SD!

Eloquent & incisive!

I edited one word in your awesome post.

[exculpatory]

Rooting for the Raptors right now, because the sooner Wade is eliminated from the playoffs, the better.

Sure hope that loss #42 for the Heat is a large step toward eliminating the Heat.

Then **** Wade can exchange jerseys with wannabes at community centers all over South Florida & with his wife’s fan club.

So so so **** fed up with that hyped up horse ****.

[threrf23]

DWade was physically fragile and never really established himself as an outside shooter. This is why I'd take PP over him (that and bias).

Now, I'd take Wade over AI any day.

[bucknersrevenge]

I wish I got to see prime Pierce. He was my favourite player, but I only managed to start catching the games in 2012 when the NBA started showing on TV. At least I managed to catch that awesome ECF series against the Heat

Google him.
About 100 great You Tubes out there of career best plays & specific extraordinary games.
He was still outstanding in 2012, but you have not seen the real primo stuff.

I saw him put up 41 in Phillips Arena in an OT game in 2001 or 2002 where he hit a ridiculous 3 to send it to OT. Eric Williams ended up seeing the game late with a baseline up and under layup. Back then Antoine used to catch Paul spinning off a post up to catch lobs all day. I swear people forget how athletic he was.

[La Flame]

Weird when Mook is playing for OKC he takes way less shots, but when he's playing his Boston games he chucks like mad

[PierceFan4ever]

If only KG and Pierce teamed up earlier together. If the Celtics big three was formed 2-3 years earlier. Garnett would be viewed better than Duncan and Kobe and would in the discussion as one of the best ever and Pierce would have had a bigger name and would be viewed as a top 20 player. Rings matter so much these days and Lebron hopping around teams created this culture.

[Marvel]

I love Paul and I do think he gets bagged on too much, but saying he's had a better career than Wade is kind of nuts (although I'm not knocking him for believing it, no great player is gonna admit anyone is better than them). He should honestly keep comments like that to himself

He is an analyst now. This is what they do in modern times--use hyperbole to incite discussion of their platform (and the topic obviously).

Wade is incredibly overrated imo. Iverson was better regardless of his flaws. He did way more with so much less than Wade had in his finals squads. West is probably a more impactful player overall, he's the **** logo of the league. Clyde was incredible at his peak as well and probably comparable. Wade needed help from two of the best players of all time and mob lines to win it all and pad his stats. If Klay wins five or more championships he's probably ahead of him too.

Agree to disagree I guess. I think peak Wade (08-09 season) was on par with Kobe and Lebron. He also has one of the better Finals performances ever. I would take him over all the players you mentioned tbh. His career accomplishments are definitely padded by his years with Lebron, but he was the best player on a championship team in '06

Wade incredibly overrated? Now that's nuts. Dude was a pure beast in his prime. I hate Wade but he is prolly top 5 SG of all time.

[truth18]

He is an analyst now. This is what they do in modern times--use hyperbole to incite discussion of their platform (and the topic obviously).

Wade is incredibly overrated imo. Iverson was better regardless of his flaws. He did way more with so much less than Wade had in his finals squads. West is probably a more impactful player overall, he's the **** logo of the league. Clyde was incredible at his peak as well and probably comparable. Wade needed help from two of the best players of all time and mob lines to win it all and pad his stats. If Klay wins five or more championships he's probably ahead of him too.

Agree to disagree I guess. I think peak Wade (08-09 season) was on par with Kobe and Lebron. He also has one of the better Finals performances ever. I would take him over all the players you mentioned tbh. His career accomplishments are definitely padded by his years with Lebron, but he was the best player on a championship team in '06

Wade incredibly overrated? Now that's nuts. Dude was a pure beast in his prime. I hate Wade but he is prolly top 5 SG of all time.

Top five, sure. He's not top three.

[FlatearthZorro]

DWade was physically fragile and never really established himself as an outside shooter. This is why I'd take PP over him (that and bias).

Now, I'd take Wade over AI any day.

Pierce sadly didn't get a real opportunity to show what he can do on a real contender till he was about 30. If Pierce had Bosh and James at 26-27 years old and he was 28 say, he'd do some serious damager.

[C-West]

Watching Dallas/Memphis on League Pass. Talk about a race nobody wants to win. These rosters/lineups are nuts.

[Marvel]

Agree to disagree I guess. I think peak Wade (08-09 season) was on par with Kobe and Lebron. He also has one of the better Finals performances ever. I would take him over all the players you mentioned tbh. His career accomplishments are definitely padded by his years with Lebron, but he was the best player on a championship team in '06

Wade incredibly overrated? Now that's nuts. Dude was a pure beast in his prime. I hate Wade but he is prolly top 5 SG of all time.

Top five, sure. He's not top three.

Let me rephrase that. He is def top 5, top 3 is debatable.