Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up

[Saberestar]

What I like most about Jeff Bower is the fact that I've never heard of him.

We don't need another decision maker, really. We just need perspective, experience, expertise. This dude sounds like he fits the bill.

Is he the guy who signed John Leuer to that atrocious contract?!?!

Yeah. That was a big mistake.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Bender's gotten a lot of hate for his passivity, but no one complains much about Bridges. Just checked the scoreboard. Bridges scores 10.1 points per 36, with a TS% of 55.2%. Dragan scores 9.2 points per 36, with a TS% of 52.4%. Like Josh, Dragan's a year younger than Bridges. Hoping we give Dragan another contract. Curious to know how well Dragan, Spalding and Oubre could handle our PF minutes next season.

... Also wondering if we have it all wrong thinking Bridges > Jackson. Josh has had his struggles, but he also has much more potential on offense than Bridges. If I were forced to deal one right now, I would at least need some time to think about it. (And it sure would be nice to have another season or two to consider!)

Two things about Bridges and Jackson and why Bridges is a better asset/player for us:

1) Bridges is a low usage player. He doesn't need the ball in his hands and he space the floor well enough.
He doesn't commit mistakes, Jackson loses the ball a lot.

Jackson USG%: 24.0
Jackson TOV%: 15.8

Bridges USG%: 12.2
Bridges TOV%: 10.5

2) Jackson is under contract for next year ($7M) and then a TO for 2020/21 ($9M).
So $16M/ 2 years.

Bridges is under contract for next season ($4.1M) and then TO for two more years.
So $14.1M / 3 years.

I don't know that Jackson is really better at anything that Bridges. You can probably pick out a month he shot better from 3 or something but the thing about Jackson is that one of his biggest things you figured he HAD coming out was his athleticism and getting to the rim.

When people talk about him adding the 3 it seems like they assume he is good at the rim and he just needed that 3 pt shot. But he's been pretty terrible at the rim. Like 53%. Bridges is like 63%. Oubre 64%, Booker 66%, TJ 67%. If you look at short midrange...3-10 feet..Jackson really bad there...like 34%...the others are all a lot better. Mikal is a much much better defender too.

I have always been about sticking with young guys so I'm fine with it..I wanted to pick up Bender's option, but Jackson is far behind Bridges right now and I'll be surprised if he ever is as good. He's far behind all those guys. But that's also why he's unlikely to have much trade value either so if you have any belief he can become a useful positive rotation piece going forward, you should continue working with him, but he's also getting more expensive.

Not better than Mikal at anything? Josh scored 35 last night. How many 35 point games does Mikal get in his career? Two? Mikal isn't a scorer at all at this point because he struggles to get around people off the dribble - which is precisely what Josh naturally excels at, so happens. Or is "quickness with the ball" not an attribute/thing because there's not a stat for it? Am I just imagining the things I witness on the court?

Josh Jackson's not better than Mikal at anything...

[dremill24]

Yes Josh is harder to stay in front of with the ball in his hands but he turns that advantage into a turnover or missed shot at a rate that makes it a net negative up to this point.

[bwgood77]

Two things about Bridges and Jackson and why Bridges is a better asset/player for us:

1) Bridges is a low usage player. He doesn't need the ball in his hands and he space the floor well enough.
He doesn't commit mistakes, Jackson loses the ball a lot.

Jackson USG%: 24.0
Jackson TOV%: 15.8

Bridges USG%: 12.2
Bridges TOV%: 10.5

2) Jackson is under contract for next year ($7M) and then a TO for 2020/21 ($9M).
So $16M/ 2 years.

Bridges is under contract for next season ($4.1M) and then TO for two more years.
So $14.1M / 3 years.

I don't know that Jackson is really better at anything that Bridges. You can probably pick out a month he shot better from 3 or something but the thing about Jackson is that one of his biggest things you figured he HAD coming out was his athleticism and getting to the rim.

When people talk about him adding the 3 it seems like they assume he is good at the rim and he just needed that 3 pt shot. But he's been pretty terrible at the rim. Like 53%. Bridges is like 63%. Oubre 64%, Booker 66%, TJ 67%. If you look at short midrange...3-10 feet..Jackson really bad there...like 34%...the others are all a lot better. Mikal is a much much better defender too.

I have always been about sticking with young guys so I'm fine with it..I wanted to pick up Bender's option, but Jackson is far behind Bridges right now and I'll be surprised if he ever is as good. He's far behind all those guys. But that's also why he's unlikely to have much trade value either so if you have any belief he can become a useful positive rotation piece going forward, you should continue working with him, but he's also getting more expensive.

Not better than Mikal at anything? Josh scored 35 last night. How many 35 point games does Mikal get in his career? Two? Mikal isn't a scorer at all at this point because he struggles to get around people off the dribble - which is precisely what Josh naturally excels at, so happens. Or is "quickness with the ball" not an attribute/thing because there's not a stat for it? Am I just imagining the things I witness on the court?

Josh Jackson's not better than Mikal at anything...

After I typed that and was doing something else I was thinking I should have said something more like "Josh would likely be better at being a lead alpha dog guy in a less talented league" than Bridges, so yes, in that type of role, he would be. But I don't think he is or will likely be that type of player at the NBA level. We've seen he can have these types of games down the stretch when teams are playing less talent. The Pelicans started rookie Kenrich Williams against him along with Ian Clark and a sieve defensive frontcourt in Randle and Okafor.

I expect Mikal to be the type of player Booker needs around him...elite defender with length who doesn't turn it over and can hit the 3. Sure he had his off shooting nights but I expect him to be a fine shooter going forward. He is also very good when it comes to ast/to and stl/to...elite.

[carey]

What I like most about Jeff Bower is the fact that I've never heard of him.

We don't need another decision maker, really. We just need perspective, experience, expertise. This dude sounds like he fits the bill.

I'd be worried about Bower. He's part of the reason that Chris Paul forced his way out of New Orleans. I wouldn't call his rebuild a success here when he couldn't put a team around Paul who forced a trade the season after Bower was fired. If you're at all concerned about Booker forcing his way out of Phoenix then maybe consider looking elsewhere.

[WeekapaugGroove]

It's becoming trend where when Jackson gets to play SG and gets to be a high usage focal point he plays better. Now that's a role that might be hard to come by with Booker here but if I'm a team like Cleveland I'd be tempted to deal for him and plug him into that role. They are a team it could potentially make sense to swap picks if they land 2 and the suns are sitting at 4 or 5. Suns deal JJ to make the swap and get Ja plus a little extra cap space to go after a PF. Cleveland gets a swing at JJ and then gets Culver or RJ who they might have taken at 2 anyway. Could be a win win all around.

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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

It's becoming trend where when Jackson gets to play SG and gets to be a high usage focal point he plays better. Now that's a role that might be hard to come by with Booker here but if I'm a team like Cleveland I'd be tempted to deal for him and plug him into that role. They are a team it could potentially make sense to swap picks if they land 2 and the suns are sitting at 4 or 5. Suns deal JJ to make the swap and get Ja plus a little extra cap space to go after a PF. Cleveland gets a swing at JJ and then gets Culver or RJ who they might have taken at 2 anyway. Could be a win win all around.

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There's definitely a pattern there; I've noted it before: JJ @ SG >>> JJ @ SF. I don't think it's crazy at all to wonder if we'll get solid offers for JJ this summer. I'd be asking about him if I were another team's GM. But it's not like we totally relieve the congestion at SF by trading Jackson. IMO, Bridges, TJ and Kelly collectively need more minutes at that 3 spot than are available, whether or not JJ's there, unless we're starting one of TJ or Kelly at the 4 spot - which we shouldn't.

I'm really hesitant to move on from Jackson before his play demands a starting spot (at which point, ideally I'd just start him!). At the very least, if we're talking to CLE about JJ, I want Sexton involved in the discussions; if it's ATL, John Collins; if NYK, it's DSJ. As for Josh's value relative to those guys, I'm just not sure. I probably go Collins>Jackson>Sexton>DSJ but I'm not basing that off of watching those other guys, obviously.

[dremill24]

It’s more like Collins>>>>>>>Sexton>DSj=Jackson

[BobbieL]

It's becoming trend where when Jackson gets to play SG and gets to be a high usage focal point he plays better. Now that's a role that might be hard to come by with Booker here but if I'm a team like Cleveland I'd be tempted to deal for him and plug him into that role. They are a team it could potentially make sense to swap picks if they land 2 and the suns are sitting at 4 or 5. Suns deal JJ to make the swap and get Ja plus a little extra cap space to go after a PF. Cleveland gets a swing at JJ and then gets Culver or RJ who they might have taken at 2 anyway. Could be a win win all around.

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I would prefer if there is a trade with Josh the Suns get Clarke and cap space to get the right veteran PG.

[bwgood77]

It's becoming trend where when Jackson gets to play SG and gets to be a high usage focal point he plays better. Now that's a role that might be hard to come by with Booker here but if I'm a team like Cleveland I'd be tempted to deal for him and plug him into that role. They are a team it could potentially make sense to swap picks if they land 2 and the suns are sitting at 4 or 5. Suns deal JJ to make the swap and get Ja plus a little extra cap space to go after a PF. Cleveland gets a swing at JJ and then gets Culver or RJ who they might have taken at 2 anyway. Could be a win win all around.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

That's exactly the team I thought MIGHT have some interest in Jackson. Maybe the Pelicans now too.

[bwgood77]

It's becoming trend where when Jackson gets to play SG and gets to be a high usage focal point he plays better. Now that's a role that might be hard to come by with Booker here but if I'm a team like Cleveland I'd be tempted to deal for him and plug him into that role. They are a team it could potentially make sense to swap picks if they land 2 and the suns are sitting at 4 or 5. Suns deal JJ to make the swap and get Ja plus a little extra cap space to go after a PF. Cleveland gets a swing at JJ and then gets Culver or RJ who they might have taken at 2 anyway. Could be a win win all around.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

There's definitely a pattern there; I've noted it before: JJ @ SG >>> JJ @ SF. I don't think it's crazy at all to wonder if we'll get solid offers for JJ this summer. I'd be asking about him if I were another team's GM. But it's not like we totally relieve the congestion at SF by trading Jackson. IMO, Bridges, TJ and Kelly collectively need more minutes at that 3 spot than are available, whether or not JJ's there, unless we're starting one of TJ or Kelly at the 4 spot - which we shouldn't.

I'm really hesitant to move on from Jackson before his play demands a starting spot (at which point, ideally I'd just start him!). At the very least, if we're talking to CLE about JJ, I want Sexton involved in the discussions; if it's ATL, John Collins; if NYK, it's DSJ. As for Josh's value relative to those guys, I'm just not sure. I probably go Collins>Jackson>Sexton>DSJ but I'm not basing that off of watching those other guys, obviously.

If we landed at 5 and the Cavs at 2, would you swap picks and JJ to move up to take Ja if that's what they wanted? Or just stay at 5?

[lilfishi22]

What I like most about Jeff Bower is the fact that I've never heard of him.

We don't need another decision maker, really. We just need perspective, experience, expertise. This dude sounds like he fits the bill.

Is he the guy who signed John Leuer to that atrocious contract?!?!

Yeah. That was a big mistake.

That wasn't very good but find me a GM with the amount of experience he has (more than a decade as GM - not assistant GM etc) that doesn't have blemishes. Even the Ainge's record isn't perfect

[bwgood77]

If it was announced Jeff Bower was hired as GM and Jones/Bukstein are out and we knew Bower was bringing in his own people I'd be pissed.

I'm not happy about the hire whatsoever, but wasn't expecting much of anything other than Jones and Bukstein basically maintaining their roles, which is what I think will be the case, so I'm not really pissed either.

At least his background is in scouting and he's not an ex player agent or something. He probably knows the cap well and might have some ideas.

Of course nothing official has even been announced...just a report from Woj from likely someone else that was interviewed telling him what that role would entail (since they were interviewing for it).

[lilfishi22]

I don't know that Jackson is really better at anything that Bridges. You can probably pick out a month he shot better from 3 or something but the thing about Jackson is that one of his biggest things you figured he HAD coming out was his athleticism and getting to the rim.

When people talk about him adding the 3 it seems like they assume he is good at the rim and he just needed that 3 pt shot. But he's been pretty terrible at the rim. Like 53%. Bridges is like 63%. Oubre 64%, Booker 66%, TJ 67%. If you look at short midrange...3-10 feet..Jackson really bad there...like 34%...the others are all a lot better. Mikal is a much much better defender too.

I have always been about sticking with young guys so I'm fine with it..I wanted to pick up Bender's option, but Jackson is far behind Bridges right now and I'll be surprised if he ever is as good. He's far behind all those guys. But that's also why he's unlikely to have much trade value either so if you have any belief he can become a useful positive rotation piece going forward, you should continue working with him, but he's also getting more expensive.

Not better than Mikal at anything? Josh scored 35 last night. How many 35 point games does Mikal get in his career? Two? Mikal isn't a scorer at all at this point because he struggles to get around people off the dribble - which is precisely what Josh naturally excels at, so happens. Or is "quickness with the ball" not an attribute/thing because there's not a stat for it? Am I just imagining the things I witness on the court?

Josh Jackson's not better than Mikal at anything...

After I typed that and was doing something else I was thinking I should have said something more like "Josh would likely be better at being a lead alpha dog guy in a less talented league" than Bridges, so yes, in that type of role, he would be. But I don't think he is or will likely be that type of player at the NBA level. We've seen he can have these types of games down the stretch when teams are playing less talent. The Pelicans started rookie Kenrich Williams against him along with Ian Clark and a sieve defensive frontcourt in Randle and Okafor.

I expect Mikal to be the type of player Booker needs around him...elite defender with length who doesn't turn it over and can hit the 3. Sure he had his off shooting nights but I expect him to be a fine shooter going forward. He is also very good when it comes to ast/to and stl/to...elite.

Great point. If either guys were to ever reach their max potential, it's liekly that Jackson is the better player and more liekly to be the #1 or #1B option on a semi-competitive team. But very few players ever reach their full potential and Jackson is so far behind in terms of consistent positive imapct in comparison to his level of experience (2yrs in the NBA) and age (22, half a year younger than Bridges) that it'll be going against history for him to reach his pre-draft projections.

Like the 2nd half of last season when we were already one of the worst teams in the league and clearly winning wasn't something we prioritized (or perhaps even encouraged), that's when he's been putting up numbers.

[DirtyDez]

.

You rather have Ja’ or a Holiday/Clarke combo?

[lilfishi22]

What I like most about Jeff Bower is the fact that I've never heard of him.

We don't need another decision maker, really. We just need perspective, experience, expertise. This dude sounds like he fits the bill.

I'd be worried about Bower. He's part of the reason that Chris Paul forced his way out of New Orleans. I wouldn't call his rebuild a success here when he couldn't put a team around Paul who forced a trade the season after Bower was fired. If you're at all concerned about Booker forcing his way out of Phoenix then maybe consider looking elsewhere.

I think it's certainly a GM's job to build a team around superstars but like Demps, who has his failings too, New Orleans just isn't a free agent destination. It's one of the smallest markets in the league and while they were lucky enough to land CP3 and AD over successive eras, if you look at all the good players who played with them, they were all traded or drafted players. All of them. Over the past decade and a bit with AD and CP3, some of the best players on those teams were CP3 (drafted), AD (drafted) David West (drafted), Jrue (traded), Eric Gordon (traded), Cousins (traded), Mirotic (traded), Peja (traded), and Tyson Chandler (traded). Every single halfway decent team they've ever assembled, they've done so with zero help in free agency.

[lilfishi22]

.

You rather have Ja’ or a Holiday/Clarke combo?

You didn't ask me but I'm going to chime in and say it's quite easily Holiday/Clarke for me

[bwgood77]

.

You rather have Ja’ or a Holiday/Clarke combo?

Definitely a Holiday/Clarke combo.

[BobbieL]

.

You rather have Ja’ or a Holiday/Clarke combo?

You didn't ask me but I'm going to chime in and say it's quite easily Holiday/Clarke for me

That would be an ideal offseason for the Suns. I just don't think that high as seems a bit unrealistic

I am more in the "Collison and Clarke" type of offseason


Truthfully, not even sure the Suns can get Jrue and Clarke - I don't see the Pels flipping picks if they give up Jrue

[Kerrsed]

What I like most about Jeff Bower is the fact that I've never heard of him.

We don't need another decision maker, really. We just need perspective, experience, expertise. This dude sounds like he fits the bill.

I'd be worried about Bower. He's part of the reason that Chris Paul forced his way out of New Orleans. I wouldn't call his rebuild a success here when he couldn't put a team around Paul who forced a trade the season after Bower was fired. If you're at all concerned about Booker forcing his way out of Phoenix then maybe consider looking elsewhere.

CP3 left the season AFTER Bower was gone (Dell Demps was in charge and the NBA was the owner and pretty much running the team), how is that on him? Bower drafted him, and inked him to a max contract after his rookie deal. CP3 saw a sinking ship (With the NBA taking away the team from an owner who could not pay and installing their own GM and FO) and he decided to try to jump on the Banana Boat.

Pretty much CP3 informed the Hornets that when he became a FA the next season he wouldnt be signing with New Orleans. His agent said IF they were to trade him he would prefer to go to the Knicks. Yup, the team of his choice was the Knicks. Big market....and pretty much nothing else. When that failed (Knicks had nothing to offer) the team traded him to Big City Market #2, LA....which was then halted due to basketball reasons, but LA still became the place, just in a different jersey.

Bower pretty much took a bottom of the barrel lotto team and turned them into a contender. CP3/Stojakovic/West/Chandler were a force to be reckoned with.....when they were actually able to stay healthy. Took them to 56 wins. Came in 3rd for GM of the year (behind Kupchak and Ainge, who won of course).

I have no idea where you got that CP3 forced his way out because of Bower and that he couldnt put a team around him. CP3 was there for only 2 seasons before they started making the playoffs. Team was good enough to end up as 2nd in the West. Bower spent 6 years total as the GM in New Orleans and they reached the playoffs 4 times (and it took them 4 years to reach the playoffs again once Bowers left). The history of the Hornets (New Orleans) spans from 2002 until now, 17 seasons of basketball where they have only made the Play-offs 7 times and 4 of those came under Bowers control.

He then went to Detroit and did the same thing, taking a bad franchise (29-53, 12th in the East) and turned them around into a playoff team within 2 seasons. This would have been their 2nd Playoff season under him (Thanks to the Blake Griffin trade he made), but of course he was let go before seeing the fruits of his labor come to fruition.