2018-19 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[iggymcfrack]

How do you guys evaluate Anthony Davis' season? He's benched but not for his lack of ability. I'm assuming most here won't give him much benefit of a doubt?

I'm kinda the wrong guy as I think he's always been overrated, but no way would I have him on the all-NBA 3rd team over Gobert.

I have the opposite opinion. I feel like he’s been fantastic on both ends and the Pelicans’ NetRtg with him is only a point and a half worse than the Nuggets’ NetRtg with Jokic. Him asking for a trade in an untenable situation is just being smart IMO. I’d actually still have him 1st-team all-NBA over my favorite player (Jokic). I’d have him 4th right now for POY behind George and ahead of Durant. If I could have any player in the league in a single season draft, I’d flip a coin between AD and Giannis. Like seriously, he has a PER over 30 and a DRPM over 3. What more do you want from him? He’s not the GM. He can’t singlehandedly fix the team on his own.

[iggymcfrack]

Here’s where I’d be at going into the playoffs:

1. Giannis
2. Harden
3. George
4. Davis
5. Durant

With the top 3 guys pretty close and them going in order from best team to worst, I could easily see whichever’s team advances furthest getting my POY vote. Obviously I’ll look at their performance within the games over anything that simple, but I’d say George took the Thunder to the conference finals while Giannis and Harden both lost in the second round, I think he’d be my favorite to win it. Likewise, I’d say it’s more likely than not that Harden would pass Giannis if the Rockets go deeper than the Bucks.

[eminence]

Davis getting real love for POY/All-NBA is ridiculous to me.

[E-Balla]

Davis getting real love for POY/All-NBA is ridiculous to me.

He was one of the clear top 3 players in the NBA for the whole first half of the season and while personally his low minutes disqualify him IMO for others it's not that big a deal since he was benched and not injured.

[eminence]

Davis getting real love for POY/All-NBA is ridiculous to me.

He was one of the clear top 3 players in the NBA for the whole first half of the season and while personally his low minutes disqualify him IMO for others it's not that big a deal since he was benched and not injured.

I'll disagree pretty damn strongly with him being a clear top 3 prior to the shenanigans. Man was meh on defense all season long.

[E-Balla]

Davis getting real love for POY/All-NBA is ridiculous to me.

He was one of the clear top 3 players in the NBA for the whole first half of the season and while personally his low minutes disqualify him IMO for others it's not that big a deal since he was benched and not injured.

I'll disagree pretty damn strongly with him being a clear top 3 prior to the shenanigans. Man was meh on defense all season long.

Yeah that's just a crazy opinion. There was nothing at all meh about his defense, together with Jrue he was the only reason they weren't the worst defense ever. His defensive effort waned when he got benched.

Prior to January they had a 108.5 DRTG with AD on the court and a 113.5 DRTG when he sat. He might not protect the rim well but he excels at forcing turnovers, rebounding, and he's not below average at anything other than protecting the rim.

[eminence]

He was one of the clear top 3 players in the NBA for the whole first half of the season and while personally his low minutes disqualify him IMO for others it's not that big a deal since he was benched and not injured.

I'll disagree pretty damn strongly with him being a clear top 3 prior to the shenanigans. Man was meh on defense all season long.

Yeah that's just a crazy opinion. There was nothing at all meh about his defense, together with Jrue he was the only reason they weren't the worst defense ever. His defensive effort waned when he got benched.

Prior to January they had a 108.5 DRTG with AD on the court and a 113.5 DRTG when he sat. He might not protect the rim well but he excels at forcing turnovers, rebounding, and he's not below average at anything other than protecting the rim.

And yet the defense hasn't fallen apart since the trade request. 111.6 (26th) in the 50 games prior. 112.7 (22nd) in the 31 games since.

When your hyper athletic 7 fter is a meh rim protector maybe that says something about awareness/effort level.

He was one of the few positives for their defense this season, but he wasn't playing like a real needle mover on that end, which he needs to to get clear top 3 recognition from me (Giannis/Harden/Durant/Curry/George/Embiid/etc have all had great seasons, and many were playing very very well before AD's trade request).

[E-Balla]

I'll disagree pretty damn strongly with him being a clear top 3 prior to the shenanigans. Man was meh on defense all season long.

Yeah that's just a crazy opinion. There was nothing at all meh about his defense, together with Jrue he was the only reason they weren't the worst defense ever. His defensive effort waned when he got benched.

Prior to January they had a 108.5 DRTG with AD on the court and a 113.5 DRTG when he sat. He might not protect the rim well but he excels at forcing turnovers, rebounding, and he's not below average at anything other than protecting the rim.

And yet the defense hasn't fallen apart since the trade request. 111.6 (26th) in the 50 games prior. 112.7 (22nd) in the 31 games since.

When your hyper athletic 7 fter is a meh rim protector maybe that says something about awareness/effort level.

He was one of the few positives for their defense this season, but he wasn't playing like a real needle mover on that end, which he needs to to get clear top 3 recognition from me (Giannis/Harden/Durant/Curry/George/Embiid/etc have all had great seasons, and many were playing very very well before AD's trade request).

Both of those numbers are higher than the 108.5 DRTG they had with AD on the court before the trade request. The defense hasn't fallen apart relative to other teams in the league only because teams are in tank mode to end the season and no one is playing a lick of defense other than the postseason teams.

And AD has been a meh rim defender mainly because he's extremely weak and doesn't stay strong inside. He still contests tons of shots inside, he just doesn't do it well.

And when you say playing like a real needle mover I'd agree on that but that doesn't mean he was meh, just that he wasn't great. He is well above average on that end and was borderline All Defense for a while. Either way I wouldn't put him in my top 3 overall, but he was pretty clearly top 3 before the benching. I don't even think there's an argument for anyone outside of AD, Giannis, Harden as far as the individual level of play of players this year went.

[eminence]

Yeah that's just a crazy opinion. There was nothing at all meh about his defense, together with Jrue he was the only reason they weren't the worst defense ever. His defensive effort waned when he got benched.

Prior to January they had a 108.5 DRTG with AD on the court and a 113.5 DRTG when he sat. He might not protect the rim well but he excels at forcing turnovers, rebounding, and he's not below average at anything other than protecting the rim.

And yet the defense hasn't fallen apart since the trade request. 111.6 (26th) in the 50 games prior. 112.7 (22nd) in the 31 games since.

When your hyper athletic 7 fter is a meh rim protector maybe that says something about awareness/effort level.

He was one of the few positives for their defense this season, but he wasn't playing like a real needle mover on that end, which he needs to to get clear top 3 recognition from me (Giannis/Harden/Durant/Curry/George/Embiid/etc have all had great seasons, and many were playing very very well before AD's trade request).

Both of those numbers are higher than the 108.5 DRTG they had with AD on the court before the trade request. The defense hasn't fallen apart relative to other teams in the league only because teams are in tank mode to end the season and no one is playing a lick of defense other than the postseason teams.

And AD has been a meh rim defender mainly because he's extremely weak and doesn't stay strong inside. He still contests tons of shots inside, he just doesn't do it well.

And when you say playing like a real needle mover I'd agree on that but that doesn't mean he was meh, just that he wasn't great. He is well above average on that end and was borderline All Defense for a while. Either way I wouldn't put him in my top 3 overall, but he was pretty clearly top 3 before the benching. I don't even think there's an argument for anyone outside of AD, Giannis, Harden as far as the individual level of play of players this year went.

No crap they're higher than AD on court, if he was a negative as the starting center on the a bottom 10 defense he'd be actually bad defensively, not meh (a range I would say goes from below average to above average, but certainly in the realm of average). Absolutely not an All-D contender (Gobert/Embiid/Turner, lol).

AD contests a very average number of shots for a NBA center.

Maybe if you're all in on box score stuff I guess. But Curry/KD/Embiid/PG have been absolutely killer over the season.

[Texas Chuck]

Davis getting real love for POY/All-NBA is ridiculous to me.

He was one of the clear top 3 players in the NBA for the whole first half of the season and while personally his low minutes disqualify him IMO for others it's not that big a deal since he was benched and not injured.

I think it's kinda a big deal that he got benched. I mean how can we just hand wave that away?

[E-Balla]

And yet the defense hasn't fallen apart since the trade request. 111.6 (26th) in the 50 games prior. 112.7 (22nd) in the 31 games since.

When your hyper athletic 7 fter is a meh rim protector maybe that says something about awareness/effort level.

He was one of the few positives for their defense this season, but he wasn't playing like a real needle mover on that end, which he needs to to get clear top 3 recognition from me (Giannis/Harden/Durant/Curry/George/Embiid/etc have all had great seasons, and many were playing very very well before AD's trade request).

Both of those numbers are higher than the 108.5 DRTG they had with AD on the court before the trade request. The defense hasn't fallen apart relative to other teams in the league only because teams are in tank mode to end the season and no one is playing a lick of defense other than the postseason teams.

And AD has been a meh rim defender mainly because he's extremely weak and doesn't stay strong inside. He still contests tons of shots inside, he just doesn't do it well.

And when you say playing like a real needle mover I'd agree on that but that doesn't mean he was meh, just that he wasn't great. He is well above average on that end and was borderline All Defense for a while. Either way I wouldn't put him in my top 3 overall, but he was pretty clearly top 3 before the benching. I don't even think there's an argument for anyone outside of AD, Giannis, Harden as far as the individual level of play of players this year went.

No crap they're higher than AD on court, if he was a negative as the starting center on the a bottom 10 defense he'd be actually bad defensively, not meh (a range I would say goes from below average to above average, but certainly in the realm of average). Absolutely not an All-D contender (Gobert/Embiid/Turner, lol).

AD contests a very average number of shots for a NBA center.

Maybe if you're all in on box score stuff I guess. But Curry/KD/Embiid/PG have been absolutely killer over the season.

Saying someone played at a borderline All D level isn't saying they should make the team or that they're top 3 at their position, just that in most years he'd be one of those players getting a few votes, but not making the team, or almost making the team. Good example IMO is the most borderline All D level player of the last decade plus, Lamarcus Aldridge.

I wouldn't say AD was just above average but I guess this isn't a gap we're going to close here. I just want to see him with someone other than Gentry, he's horrible.

And beyond the boxscore I just didn't think any of those guys played as good as AD early in the season. PG got hot before the mid point but he wasn't hot for too long, Curry and KD played half speed to start the year, and Embiid was struggling once they first grabbed Jimmy.

[E-Balla]

Davis getting real love for POY/All-NBA is ridiculous to me.

He was one of the clear top 3 players in the NBA for the whole first half of the season and while personally his low minutes disqualify him IMO for others it's not that big a deal since he was benched and not injured.

I think it's kinda a big deal that he got benched. I mean how can we just hand wave that away?

Look I think it's a big deal too but for many people I'm guessing him being ready and willing to play means it's on the team for not playing him and shouldn't be a negative. Personally I'd agree if we were talking "best" players but POTY is more results based IMO.

[Texas Chuck]

Look I think it's a big deal too but for many people I'm guessing him being ready and willing to play means it's on the team for not playing him and shouldn't be a negative. Personally I'd agree if we were talking "best" players but POTY is more results based IMO.

If the team benched him to tank or protect him for next year, sure. But they benched him because he demanded out and they are having to protect him as a trade asset and got essentially forced by the league to play him at all.

To me that's largely on him and means I wouldn't consider him a top 5 POY candidate or for any of the all-NBA teams. No issues with him making the request public if he thought that was best for him, but since he did and it's led to what it has, then it costs him for me in these discussions.

Sucks that the Pels couldn't make it work, but I hope much like with KG we get to see him in a good situation so we can see what he's capable of or not in terms of leading a quality team. We know he can put up big numbers, but lots of guys have done that.

[Clyde Frazier]

Yeah i just see AD's season tarnished from a POY perspective. Has only played 56 games due to a poor situation that he created. He was spectacular when he played, but hasn’t played enough to crack the top 5 for me given the circumstances.

[ardee]

Honestly have Harden as POY and MVP at this point.

My logic is that they're finishing 6-7 games behind the Bucks with more injuries and in a tougher conference. A healthy Rockets team wins 60 no doubt. What Harden has dragged the Rox to under these circumstances is slightly more impressive than Giannis in these circumstances.

No shade on Giannis though. I think he's on par with Orlando Shaq's seasons. Historic as well. This is probably the best top two regular seasons since '09.

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[HeartBreakKid]

I'm not sure who MVP is - but my gut does kind of tell me that the whole "if anyone else put up Harden's numbers theyd be MVP" has some truth to it. On top of people not liking Harden, him getting MVP last year took some sting off of his claim this year since he's not a real flagship NBA guy.

[HeartBreakKid]

If there is ever a retro player of the year award for 2019 I can see Anthony Davis getting a lot of votes. Even after his benching he still has good numbers.

[LA Bird]

Kawhi getting double the votes of anybody else as the best defender in that player poll is such a joke. Excellent defender in his DPOY seasons but he has been nothing special since. At this rate, he will probably surpass old Kobe as the most overrated defender ever by the time his career is over.

And no way Davis makes top 5 with his playing time. It shouldn't matter if he was injured, benched or suspended. Connie Hawkins could have been a top 10 player of the 60s if he wasn't unfairly banned from the league but he shouldn't get the benefit of doubt over players who actually played and showed their worth. Neither should Davis. He will have to wait until next season to be a POY contender again.

[eminence]

Kawhi getting double the votes of anybody else as the best defender in that player poll is such a joke. Excellent defender in his DPOY seasons but he has been nothing special since. At this rate, he will probably surpass old Kobe as the most overrated defender ever by the time his career is over.

And no way Davis makes top 5 with his playing time. It shouldn't matter if he was injured, benched or suspended. Connie Hawkins could have been a top 10 player of the 60s if he wasn't unfairly banned from the league but he shouldn't get the benefit of doubt over players who actually played and showed their worth. Neither should Davis. He will have to wait until next season to be a POY contender again.

Link to the player poll?

[LA Bird]

Kawhi getting double the votes of anybody else as the best defender in that player poll is such a joke. Excellent defender in his DPOY seasons but he has been nothing special since. At this rate, he will probably surpass old Kobe as the most overrated defender ever by the time his career is over.

And no way Davis makes top 5 with his playing time. It shouldn't matter if he was injured, benched or suspended. Connie Hawkins could have been a top 10 player of the 60s if he wasn't unfairly banned from the league but he shouldn't get the benefit of doubt over players who actually played and showed their worth. Neither should Davis. He will have to wait until next season to be a POY contender again.

Link to the player poll?

https://theathletic.com/909752/2019/04/08/the-2019-nba-player-poll-mvp-the-goat-most-overrated-players-weigh-in-on-the-best-and-worst-in-the-game/

Who’s the best defender? (114 votes)
Kawhi Leonard (30.3%)
Paul George (16.2%)
Rudy Gobert (14.9%)
Patrick Beverley (10.5%)
Joel Embiid (4.4%)
Jrue Holiday (3.5%)
Giannis Antetokounmpo, Draymond Green, Kris Dunn (2.6%)
Klay Thompson, Torrey Craig, Mikal Bridges, Marcus Smart (1.7%)
Myles Turner; Kyle Lowry; Steven Adams; P.J Tucker; Royce O’Neal; David Nwaba (1%)