Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

[GONYK]

Thanks for the post.
Frank is going to be a fine pro and we'd be foolish to drop him for nothing and especially on a rookie deal. Only posters on RG are foolish in this way.

I appreciate the positive thoughts on Frank but I don't think some people actually understand how truly bad he is. He is arguably the worst guard in the NBA. Imagine how bad it is that its difficult to name players in the league that are worse than you are. Arguably the worst first round pick by the Knicks of all time and the Knicks have drafted some busts. He may be the best bust of them all. Frank truly has to have a miraculous improvement just to get playing time on any team with any type of expectations. I won't say a turnaround isn't possible but I will say I think we have seen 90 to 95 percent of what he is already.

Frank ranks dead last in the entire NBA in eFG.

Being the least efficient offensive guard in the NBA =/= being the worst guard in the NBA.

There are two sides of the game and Frank contributes more than shooting

[malik959]

Man people are a trip, we knew going into that draft that Frank was going to be a 4 year project, but because he hasn't improved at the rate you like your ready to boot him. Then when we do trade him your upset because we didn't get our worth, then when he shows that improvement on another team you want the GM's fired because you can't have your way. Sound about right?

[god shammgod]

it's not that he's hasn't improved at the rate that people like, there has been zero improvement in anything quantifiable from year 1 to 2. actually he's slightly worse this year in some things. and i'm not anti-frank, i think if he can get a league average 3 he becomes a good role player, but it's true.

[mpharris36]

it's not that he's hasn't improved at the rate that people like, there has been zero improvement in anything quantifiable from year 1 to 2. actually he's slightly worse this year in some things. and i'm not anti-frank, i think if he can get a league average 3 he becomes a good role player, but it's true.

i agree I was disappointed as well. I think its been a combination of things.

1. We started the year with Trey Burke starting (as guess what Trey Burke isn't here) - put Frank at the 3 (which made no sense)
2. Finally started him at he 1 and we arguably played our best overall team ball. Had our best defensive rating and while at times there was struggles offensively I can argue that was our best best starting lineup.
3. After a dysmal start to the orlando game Fiz pulled the strings on that lineup and went with Mudiay (who also wont be here next year)
4. Then Frank has a groin injury (that sucks because it cut his season in half)
5. Then we traded for DSJ
6. then he came back and got injured again

Overall it was just a lost year by poor play, some highlights mixed in, and injuries. So I guess the writing could be on the wall because Frank isn't this regimes pick. But I still believe in him and his ability to fit next to superstars.

Look all our rookies have struggled outside of Mitch. Maybe trier but he's also 23 and an ISO scorer which in a year playing with bad players ISO scorers tend to look better. But most of our young players struggled. Frank is just polarizing so he gets a majority of the attention.

[NYKAL]

Man people are a trip, we knew going into that draft that Frank was going to be a 4 year project, but because he hasn't improved at the rate you like your ready to boot him. Then when we do trade him your upset because we didn't get our worth, then when he shows that improvement on another team you want the GM's fired because you can't have your way. Sound about right?

even IF that is the case, his improvements have been so minuscule that by year 4 he'll just be ready for the g-league. dude has shown no real improvement at all to this point. Don't get me wrong, I value what he "came in" able to do. He came in as a good defender and to date, THAT IS ALL he is. And that seemed to regress too.

[Knickgm2190]

Damn, Frank Ntilikina the only player worth discussing at the season's end.

He’s polarizing. Folks were incensed that he wasn’t penciled in as the starter early on. MODs were threatening to ban dissenters. Lines were drawn. It’ll be interesting to see all of the offseason highlight videos though.

please stop with this. people who got warnings and suspensions got them for violating board rules. not for being not fans of frank.

if we were doing that for any individual players a lot of people wouldn't be around.

I am witness to a poster banned for speaking negatively about Frank. Nothing more. To be specific they were suspended 2 or 3 times then banned. Not for bad language or being rude but for saying he was a bad pick and would not amount to much. This was 2 weeks after Frank was drafted.

[GONYK]

All Frank needs to do to become a surefire rotation player is shoot league average from 3.

I feel like people are making that seem like a bigger hurdle than it is.

[Jeff Van Gully]

He’s polarizing. Folks were incensed that he wasn’t penciled in as the starter early on. MODs were threatening to ban dissenters. Lines were drawn. It’ll be interesting to see all of the offseason highlight videos though.

please stop with this. people who got warnings and suspensions got them for violating board rules. not for being not fans of frank.

if we were doing that for any individual players a lot of people wouldn't be around.

I am witness to a poster banned for speaking negatively about Frank. Nothing more. To be specific they were suspended 2 or 3 times then banned. Not for bad language or being rude but for saying he was a bad pick and would not amount to much. This was 2 weeks after Frank was drafted.

honestly, i welcome PMs with details like that. if you remember the user, i'd love to know in private.

i can't give specifics on users' profiles (i.e.: results), but i am more than happy to investigate something that you think is unfair and detrimental to the community experience.

[god shammgod]

He’s polarizing. Folks were incensed that he wasn’t penciled in as the starter early on. MODs were threatening to ban dissenters. Lines were drawn. It’ll be interesting to see all of the offseason highlight videos though.

please stop with this. people who got warnings and suspensions got them for violating board rules. not for being not fans of frank.

if we were doing that for any individual players a lot of people wouldn't be around.

I am witness to a poster banned for speaking negatively about Frank. Nothing more. To be specific they were suspended 2 or 3 times then banned. Not for bad language or being rude but for saying he was a bad pick and would not amount to much. This was 2 weeks after Frank was drafted.

but you joined in march

[god shammgod]

what are the odds he IS the poster who was banned for talking bad about frank ?

[Knickgm2190]

All Frank needs to do to become a surefire rotation player is shoot league average from 3.

I feel like people are making that seem like a bigger hurdle than it is.

He needs quite a bit more than that. He has no feel for basketball. When he is out on the court he has the appearance of someone that has no idea what to do. That is why he treats the basketball like its a hot potato. He also has no aggression on either side of the ball. Very mechanical movements. Defensively he is an annoyance but I've never seen him actually effect anyones play. When he can do that like a smart, kawhi, or roberson then he can be useful. Right now he does nothing on the court and that is why he gets very little run.

[2010]

I don't mind people dissing frank but don't act like you guys have been suppressed. This whole thread was set up so people couldn't derail threads by Frank bashing. We basically created a forum for you guys to congregate! The last few pages have been all about how frank "sucks" and people think they have been suppressed with there frank hate....

yall too much

So you telling me this is Hamsterdam?

So if I ever get banned/suspended/warned for anything I say about Frank in here, wouldn’t that qualify as contrapment?

look at the last 2 pages. He's been called lazy. Then someone said "hey he's not lazy he just sucks at basketball". Then a notorious frank hater who derailed post game thread after post game thread posted his feelings without issue. I would see this thread has been a cesspool for Frank haters

You know it ebs and flows tho. Pretty soon the Nathan's hot dog contest eaters will flood this place and bring some balance!

[Jeff Van Gully]

All Frank needs to do to become a surefire rotation player is shoot league average from 3.

I feel like people are making that seem like a bigger hurdle than it is.

big-time frankfrooters like me had hope that frank would be a lead guard solution. i have no reservation in saying he hasn't shown to have that in him, despite his skills. he may never be a PG in that sense.

if he doesn't get his shot together, he's basically patrick beverley with much better court vision. and would need to keep his shot volume low while moving the ball on offense and being nothing short of stellar on defense.

i like frank a lot and i'm OK with that for a floor on a guy who is STILL younger than any upperclassman who will come out of this draft class. (age perfectly in step with the current sophomore class.) he's a project and one i'd prefer to commit to. if FA becomes big, i wholly accept the notion that we can't afford to spend time or cap space on his development. but if we don't get some big FA haul, i still have the patience to see him through at least his third season in the L, y'all.

[Knickgm2190]

please stop with this. people who got warnings and suspensions got them for violating board rules. not for being not fans of frank.

if we were doing that for any individual players a lot of people wouldn't be around.

I am witness to a poster banned for speaking negatively about Frank. Nothing more. To be specific they were suspended 2 or 3 times then banned. Not for bad language or being rude but for saying he was a bad pick and would not amount to much. This was 2 weeks after Frank was drafted.

honestly, i welcome PMs with details like that. if you remember the user, i'd love to know in private.

i can't give specifics on users' profiles (i.e.: results), but i am more than happy to investigate something that you think is unfair and detrimental to the community experience.

I appreciate your interest in trying to correct this issue. It's over now and the moderator who did the banning or requested it has retired in the last few months. I don't believe the same thing would occur again today.

[2010]

I'm not a Ntilikina fan but I don't think it's fair to call him lazy or say he just lacks the love of basketball. Making the NBA is super difficult, especially for a foreign player and there has been nothing that suggests he's lazy and lacks work ethic. Quite simply, he lacks talent. His biggest detriment (or gift if you look at it that way) was ending up being 6'6" with a 7'1" wingspan. That alone got him drafted that high and set him to fail. His pure basketball talent is nowhere near lottery talent. Unfortunately Phil ignored the pure basketball talent and fell in love with the wingspan, height and character.

Thankfully, we made up drafting Ntilikina high by drafting Mitch in the 2nd Round (where Ntilikina should probably have been drafted) and signed Trier undrafted. I think it's time for everyone to just admit defeat and look and take Ntilikina for what he is. He will never ever reach expectations of a lottery pick imo. That doesn't mean he cannot be a piece on a good team, possibly with us. He's still on a rookie deal and cheap. There is no reason he MUST be traded. He's a good kid, good teammate, hard worker and he defends. You need players like him on a good team at the end of the bench.

Frank is a really good defender, has a great work ethic and a great potencial. But he is not cheap for a team who is going to commit 72% os his Cap Space in 2 players + dead salary. He is the biggest salary of the current roster and has the biggest "bust risk". And he probably will not be cheap when he becomes RFA in 2021.

We have to think that if we dont trade Frank, we can loose some players with potencial and friendly salaries (Trier, Kornet, Henry). Besides, if we keep Frank we will add more incomplete roster charges in the team salary and loose more tradable salary for early next season.

Spoiler:

[god shammgod]

I'm not a Ntilikina fan but I don't think it's fair to call him lazy or say he just lacks the love of basketball. Making the NBA is super difficult, especially for a foreign player and there has been nothing that suggests he's lazy and lacks work ethic. Quite simply, he lacks talent. His biggest detriment (or gift if you look at it that way) was ending up being 6'6" with a 7'1" wingspan. That alone got him drafted that high and set him to fail. His pure basketball talent is nowhere near lottery talent. Unfortunately Phil ignored the pure basketball talent and fell in love with the wingspan, height and character.

Thankfully, we made up drafting Ntilikina high by drafting Mitch in the 2nd Round (where Ntilikina should probably have been drafted) and signed Trier undrafted. I think it's time for everyone to just admit defeat and look and take Ntilikina for what he is. He will never ever reach expectations of a lottery pick imo. That doesn't mean he cannot be a piece on a good team, possibly with us. He's still on a rookie deal and cheap. There is no reason he MUST be traded. He's a good kid, good teammate, hard worker and he defends. You need players like him on a good team at the end of the bench.

Frank is a really good defender, has a great work ethic and a great potencial. But he is not cheap for a team who is going to commit 72% os his Cap Space in 2 players + dead salary. He is the biggest salary of the current roster and has the biggest "bust risk". And he probably will not be cheap when he becomes RFA in 2021.

We have to think that if we dont trade Frank, we can loose some players with potencial and friendly salaries (Trier, Kornet, Henry). Besides, if we keep Frank we will add more incomplete roster charges in the team salary and loose more tradable salary for early next season.

Spoiler:

rofl. this made me laugh too hard for some reason.

[Knickgm2190]

All Frank needs to do to become a surefire rotation player is shoot league average from 3.

I feel like people are making that seem like a bigger hurdle than it is.

big-time frankfrooters like me had hope that frank would be a lead guard solution. i have no reservation in saying he hasn't shown to have that in him, despite his skills. he may never be a PG in that sense.

if he doesn't get his shot together, he's basically patrick beverley with much better court vision. and would need to keep his shot volume low while moving the ball on offense and being nothing short of stellar on defense.

i like frank a lot and i'm OK with that for a floor on a guy who is STILL younger than any upperclassman who will come out of this draft class. (age perfectly in step with the current sophomore class.) he's a project and one i'd prefer to commit to. if FA becomes big, i wholly accept the notion that we can't afford to spend time or cap space on his development. but if we don't get some big FA haul, i still have the patience to see him through at least his third season in the L, y'all.

Agreed

[god shammgod]

I am witness to a poster banned for speaking negatively about Frank. Nothing more. To be specific they were suspended 2 or 3 times then banned. Not for bad language or being rude but for saying he was a bad pick and would not amount to much. This was 2 weeks after Frank was drafted.

honestly, i welcome PMs with details like that. if you remember the user, i'd love to know in private.

i can't give specifics on users' profiles (i.e.: results), but i am more than happy to investigate something that you think is unfair and detrimental to the community experience.

I appreciate your interest in trying to correct this issue. It's over now and the moderator who did the banning or requested it has retired in the last few months. I don't believe the same thing would occur again today.

no, go ahead. let us know who that poster was.

[2010]

it's not that he's hasn't improved at the rate that people like, there has been zero improvement in anything quantifiable from year 1 to 2. actually he's slightly worse this year in some things. and i'm not anti-frank, i think if he can get a league average 3 he becomes a good role player, but it's true.

i agree I was disappointed as well. I think its been a combination of things.

1. We started the year with Trey Burke starting (as guess what Trey Burke isn't here) - put Frank at the 3 (which made no sense)
2. Finally started him at he 1 and we arguably played our best overall team ball. Had our best defensive rating and while at times there was struggles offensively I can argue that was our best best starting lineup.
3. After a dysmal start to the orlando game Fiz pulled the strings on that lineup and went with Mudiay (who also wont be here next year)
4. Then Frank has a groin injury (that sucks because it cut his season in half)
5. Then we traded for DSJ
6. then he came back and got injured again

Overall it was just a lost year by poor play, some highlights mixed in, and injuries. So I guess the writing could be on the wall because Frank isn't this regimes pick. But I still believe in him and his ability to fit next to superstars.

Look all our rookies have struggled outside of Mitch. Maybe trier but he's also 23 and an ISO scorer which in a year playing with bad players ISO scorers tend to look better. But most of our young players struggled. Frank is just polarizing so he gets a majority of the attention.

Fair response and I generally agree but I'ma pick on the enlarged portion. Aren't most of you now calling for Frank to be kept to man the SG spot next to Kyrie. In today's NBA, one could argue that the 2/3 position are now interchangeable. So in hindsight, was putting him at the 3 at the beginning of the year really that nonsensical?

[2010]

All Frank needs to do to become a surefire rotation player is shoot league average from 3.

I feel like people are making that seem like a bigger hurdle than it is.

You are right on the first sentence.

And on the 2nd one, until Frank actually does it we have a right to be skeptical. Mainly because of his mindset. Half the time Frank doesn't even seem to be all that interested in actually pulling the trigger on open shots. Until he becomes more willing to actually shoot as opposed to playing hot potato, we have doubts that are justifiable.