Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

[Jeff Van Gully]

Frank is a really good defender, has a great work ethic and a great potencial. But he is not cheap for a team who is going to commit 72% os his Cap Space in 2 players + dead salary. He is the biggest salary of the current roster and has the biggest "bust risk". And he probably will not be cheap when he becomes RFA in 2021.

We have to think that if we dont trade Frank, we can loose some players with potencial and friendly salaries (Trier, Kornet, Henry). Besides, if we keep Frank we will add more incomplete roster charges in the team salary and loose more tradable salary for early next season.

Spoiler:

rofl. this made me laugh too hard for some reason.

he caught me with the

Spoiler:

tiny-to-huge font ascension

... which i think is a hilarious go-to as well. i would have bet money that was gonna be in the spoiler.

[Jeff Van Gully]

honestly, i welcome PMs with details like that. if you remember the user, i'd love to know in private.

i can't give specifics on users' profiles (i.e.: results), but i am more than happy to investigate something that you think is unfair and detrimental to the community experience.

I appreciate your interest in trying to correct this issue. It's over now and the moderator who did the banning or requested it has retired in the last few months. I don't believe the same thing would occur again today.

no, go ahead. let us know who that poster was.

ainno "US," bih.

Spoiler:

[2010]

All Frank needs to do to become a surefire rotation player is shoot league average from 3.

I feel like people are making that seem like a bigger hurdle than it is.

big-time frankfrooters like me had hope that frank would be a lead guard solution. i have no reservation in saying he hasn't shown to have that in him, despite his skills. he may never be a PG in that sense.

if he doesn't get his shot together, he's basically patrick beverley with much better court vision. and would need to keep his shot volume low while moving the ball on offense and being nothing short of stellar on defense.

i like frank a lot and i'm OK with that for a floor on a guy who is STILL younger than any upperclassman who will come out of this draft class. (age perfectly in step with the current sophomore class.) he's a project and one i'd prefer to commit to. if FA becomes big, i wholly accept the notion that we can't afford to spend time or cap space on his development. but if we don't get some big FA haul, i still have the patience to see him through at least his third season in the L, y'all.

Not being snarky here. Being genuine. Can I go back to using that word again? Cuz I got warned and have since refrained. If nothing else, since this thread is basically Frank Hamsterdam, I think it would be fair if I at least were allowed to use it only in here.

[GONYK]

All Frank needs to do to become a surefire rotation player is shoot league average from 3.

I feel like people are making that seem like a bigger hurdle than it is.

He needs quite a bit more than that. He has no feel for basketball. When he is out on the court he has the appearance of someone that has no idea what to do. That is why he treats the basketball like its a hot potato.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. He might be the best pure facilitator we have in the PnR, aside from maybe DSJ.

He also is easily the best defensive player we have in the team concept. He understands rotations, shades, helps, etc...

Once again, it seems that you are just addressing his on ball offensive performance.

He also has no aggression on either side of the ball. Very mechanical movements. Defensively he is an annoyance but I've never seen him actually effect anyones play. When he can do that like a smart, kawhi, or roberson then he can be useful. Right now he does nothing on the court and that is why he gets very little run.

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

There are also very notable examples like Frank completely shutting down CJ McCollum when we beat Portland earlier this season.

Frank is an impact defender, especially the point of attack.

Frank defending the PnR with a rim protector behind him has been guaranteed to be a top 10 defense in this league consistently.

[Jeff Van Gully]

All Frank needs to do to become a surefire rotation player is shoot league average from 3.

I feel like people are making that seem like a bigger hurdle than it is.

big-time frankfrooters like me had hope that frank would be a lead guard solution. i have no reservation in saying he hasn't shown to have that in him, despite his skills. he may never be a PG in that sense.

if he doesn't get his shot together, he's basically patrick beverley with much better court vision. and would need to keep his shot volume low while moving the ball on offense and being nothing short of stellar on defense.

i like frank a lot and i'm OK with that for a floor on a guy who is STILL younger than any upperclassman who will come out of this draft class. (age perfectly in step with the current sophomore class.) he's a project and one i'd prefer to commit to. if FA becomes big, i wholly accept the notion that we can't afford to spend time or cap space on his development. but if we don't get some big FA haul, i still have the patience to see him through at least his third season in the L, y'all.

Not being snarky here. Being genuine. Can I go back to using that word again? Cuz I got warned and have since refrained. If nothing else, since this thread is basically Frank Hamsterdam, I think it would be fair if I at least were allowed to use it only in here.

oh, snap. see. i didn't know you got a warning for calling someone a frankfrooter.

i remember that was the frank thread title, so i was using it that way.

i get it now. the term contributed to an us/them scenario that i'm perpetuating. thanks for putting me on.

if you were told not to use it (with connotation, i assume?), then i'll fall back on its use too.

[2010]

I appreciate the positive thoughts on Frank but I don't think some people actually understand how truly bad he is. He is arguably the worst guard in the NBA. Imagine how bad it is that its difficult to name players in the league that are worse than you are. Arguably the worst first round pick by the Knicks of all time and the Knicks have drafted some busts. He may be the best bust of them all. Frank truly has to have a miraculous improvement just to get playing time on any team with any type of expectations. I won't say a turnaround isn't possible but I will say I think we have seen 90 to 95 percent of what he is already.

Frank ranks dead last in the entire NBA in eFG.

Being the least efficient offensive guard in the NBA =/= being the worst guard in the NBA.

There are two sides of the game and Frank contributes more than shooting

I never said he was the worst guard in the NBA tho. I have said he was the worst offensive guard in the NBA. And I think that stat supports my argument. But I do acknowledge he brings defensive value. But I do believe his defensive value is a bit overrated. Does it really offset his offensive deficiencies?

[Knickgm2190]

All Frank needs to do to become a surefire rotation player is shoot league average from 3.

I feel like people are making that seem like a bigger hurdle than it is.

He needs quite a bit more than that. He has no feel for basketball. When he is out on the court he has the appearance of someone that has no idea what to do. That is why he treats the basketball like its a hot potato.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. He might be the best pure facilitator we have in the PnR, aside from maybe DSJ.

He also is easily the best defensive player we have in the team concept. He understands rotations, shades, helps, etc...

Once again, it seems that you are just addressing his on ball offensive performance.

He also has no aggression on either side of the ball. Very mechanical movements. Defensively he is an annoyance but I've never seen him actually effect anyones play. When he can do that like a smart, kawhi, or roberson then he can be useful. Right now he does nothing on the court and that is why he gets very little run.

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

There are also very notable examples like Frank completely shutting down CJ McCollum when we beat Portland earlier this season.

Frank is an impact defender, especially the point of attack.

Frank defending the PnR with a rim protector behind him has been guaranteed to be a top 10 defense in this league consistently.[/quote]

The graphics are all very nice. I know the information you have presented. Guarding someone for 8-10 possessions and limiting their output is not a whole game. The question is do you think these players would be severely limited if frank guarded them the whole game? Would Harden have scored 25 instead of 61 or Russell 15 instead of 30? My opinion is he might shave off 5 points a players average at the end of a game. He would have to do more than that being that he is a zero on the other end. You believe he has greater impact. In most cases you provided the players still got to their averages in the end rendering those few possessions with frank guarding them worthless.

[2010]

big-time frankfrooters like me had hope that frank would be a lead guard solution. i have no reservation in saying he hasn't shown to have that in him, despite his skills. he may never be a PG in that sense.

if he doesn't get his shot together, he's basically patrick beverley with much better court vision. and would need to keep his shot volume low while moving the ball on offense and being nothing short of stellar on defense.

i like frank a lot and i'm OK with that for a floor on a guy who is STILL younger than any upperclassman who will come out of this draft class. (age perfectly in step with the current sophomore class.) he's a project and one i'd prefer to commit to. if FA becomes big, i wholly accept the notion that we can't afford to spend time or cap space on his development. but if we don't get some big FA haul, i still have the patience to see him through at least his third season in the L, y'all.

Not being snarky here. Being genuine. Can I go back to using that word again? Cuz I got warned and have since refrained. If nothing else, since this thread is basically Frank Hamsterdam, I think it would be fair if I at least were allowed to use it only in here.

oh, snap. see. i didn't know you got a warning for calling someone a frankfrooter.

i remember that was the frank thread title, so i was using it that way.

i get it now. the term contributed to an us/them scenario that i'm perpetuating. thanks for putting me on.

if you were told not to use it (with connotation, i assume?), then i'll fall back on its use too.

I coined the term. Was really never no real malice with it. Just all in fun. Like you said, it was the title of his thread. Somewhere along the way it got a negative connotation associated with it. I didn't agree but left it alone. Sometimes now I resort to using Nathan or things of that nature. I just like pun in general cuz I am rooted in hip-hop (big pun intended).

[Jeff Van Gully]

All Frank needs to do to become a surefire rotation player is shoot league average from 3.

I feel like people are making that seem like a bigger hurdle than it is.

He needs quite a bit more than that. He has no feel for basketball. When he is out on the court he has the appearance of someone that has no idea what to do. That is why he treats the basketball like its a hot potato.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. He might be the best pure facilitator we have in the PnR, aside from maybe DSJ.

He also is easily the best defensive player we have in the team concept. He understands rotations, shades, helps, etc...

Once again, it seems that you are just addressing his on ball offensive performance.

He also has no aggression on either side of the ball. Very mechanical movements. Defensively he is an annoyance but I've never seen him actually effect anyones play. When he can do that like a smart, kawhi, or roberson then he can be useful. Right now he does nothing on the court and that is why he gets very little run.

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

There are also very notable examples like Frank completely shutting down CJ McCollum when we beat Portland earlier this season.

Frank is an impact defender, especially the point of attack.

Frank defending the PnR with a rim protector behind him has been guaranteed to be a top 10 defense in this league consistently.

he also has a real gift for understanding schemes. i know that's not as valued in the modern game and adds to his "old-school" and "triangle" labels. but his awareness on both sides of the ball seems really high to me.

his sloppy handle prohibits him from capitalizing on that skill, IMO. and the lack of a knockdown jumper doesn't make enough room for a guy with such limited handle. if he were knocking down jumpers he'd be able to get away with not having the best isolation moves because he'd have drive-by opportunities off closeouts and overplays. defenders basically call frank's bluff and he doesn't make them pay -- like ever.

frank has to master SOMETHING on offense before he can have the freedom to facilitate. any one thing would unlock the rest of the puzzle. if i were his coach i would drive that home very specifically.

[GONYK]

Frank ranks dead last in the entire NBA in eFG.

Being the least efficient offensive guard in the NBA =/= being the worst guard in the NBA.

There are two sides of the game and Frank contributes more than shooting

I never said he was the worst guard in the NBA tho. I have said he was the worst offensive guard in the NBA. And I think that stat supports my argument. But I do acknowledge he brings defensive value. But I do believe his defensive value is a bit overrated. Does it really offset his offensive deficiencies?

Well, I was addressing both posts in my reply. You didn't say Frank was the worst guard, but the poster you quoted did.

As far as his offensive deficiencies, I think the stats show that Frank does offset them more times than not, since many games where he gets a good amount of burn, he usually ends up being one of the few positive differential players. That's back of the napkin math, but it is a trend that is hard to ignore.

The big question is does he offset his offensive deficiencies as the PG? The answer to that right now is probably no.

Does he offset it as a player off the ball? It's a much closer call. Which is why I said that if he gets to league average from 3, then it will be a no brainer that he's a rotation player, even if you choose to just use him as a secondary or tertiary ballhandler on offense.

Frank's issues are aggression and accuracy. If his shooting comes around, and he's not playing PG, then his aggression becomes a very minor issue. He brings enough to the floor to offset that.

[Jeff Van Gully]

The graphics are all very nice. I know the information you have presented. Guarding someone for 8-10 possessions and limiting their output is not a whole game. The question is do you think these players would be severely limited if frank guarded them the whole game? Would Harden have scored 25 instead of 61 or Russell 15 instead of 30? My opinion is he might shave off 5 points a players average at the end of a game. He would have to do more than that being that he is a zero on the other end. You believe he has greater impact. In most cases you provided the players still got to their averages in the end rendering those few possessions with frank guarding them worthless.

the irony is that we never really got a chance to see with either coach.

[GONYK]

He needs quite a bit more than that. He has no feel for basketball. When he is out on the court he has the appearance of someone that has no idea what to do. That is why he treats the basketball like its a hot potato.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. He might be the best pure facilitator we have in the PnR, aside from maybe DSJ.

He also is easily the best defensive player we have in the team concept. He understands rotations, shades, helps, etc...

Once again, it seems that you are just addressing his on ball offensive performance.

He also has no aggression on either side of the ball. Very mechanical movements. Defensively he is an annoyance but I've never seen him actually effect anyones play. When he can do that like a smart, kawhi, or roberson then he can be useful. Right now he does nothing on the court and that is why he gets very little run.

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

There are also very notable examples like Frank completely shutting down CJ McCollum when we beat Portland earlier this season.

Frank is an impact defender, especially the point of attack.

Frank defending the PnR with a rim protector behind him has been guaranteed to be a top 10 defense in this league consistently.

he also has a real gift for understanding schemes. i know that's not as valued in the modern game and adds to his "old-school" and "triangle" labels. but his awareness on both sides of the ball seems really high to me.

his sloppy handle prohibits him from capitalizing on that skill, IMO. and the lack of a knockdown jumper doesn't make enough room for a guy with such limited handle. if he were knocking down jumpers he'd be able to get away with not having the best isolation moves because he'd have drive-by opportunities off closeouts and overplays. defenders basically call frank's bluff and he doesn't make them pay -- like ever.

frank has to master SOMETHING on offense before he can have the freedom to facilitate. any one thing would unlock the rest of the puzzle. if i were his coach i would drive that home very specifically.

Very well said, and I completely agree. He needs something he can consistently rely on. Once he can make the defense shift to address him in one way, he can take advantage of the more subtle parts of his offensive game.

[GONYK]

The graphics are all very nice. I know the information you have presented. Guarding someone for 8-10 possessions and limiting their output is not a whole game. The question is do you think these players would be severely limited if frank guarded them the whole game? Would Harden have scored 25 instead of 61 or Russell 15 instead of 30? My opinion is he might shave off 5 points a players average at the end of a game. He would have to do more than that being that he is a zero on the other end. You believe he has greater impact. In most cases you provided the players still got to their averages in the end rendering those few possessions with frank guarding them worthless.

the irony is that we never really got a chance to see with either coach.

Bingo, which is kind of inexcusable in a season that didn't matter.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Not being snarky here. Being genuine. Can I go back to using that word again? Cuz I got warned and have since refrained. If nothing else, since this thread is basically Frank Hamsterdam, I think it would be fair if I at least were allowed to use it only in here.

oh, snap. see. i didn't know you got a warning for calling someone a frankfrooter.

i remember that was the frank thread title, so i was using it that way.

i get it now. the term contributed to an us/them scenario that i'm perpetuating. thanks for putting me on.

if you were told not to use it (with connotation, i assume?), then i'll fall back on its use too.

I coined the term. Was really never no real malice with it. Just all in fun. Like you said, it was the title of his thread. Somewhere along the way it got a negative connotation associated with it. I didn't agree but left it alone. Sometimes now I resort to using Nathan or things of that nature. I just like pun in general cuz I am rooted in hip-hop (big pun intended).

man... thank you for explaining NATHAN to me. i had seen it a couple times and did not get it at all.

and you know i stay super lyrical. big pun intended.

[thebuzzardman]

what are the odds he IS the poster who was banned for talking bad about frank ?

I'd say the percentage is 100

[god shammgod]

what are the odds he IS the poster who was banned for talking bad about frank ?

I'd say the percentage is 100

unfortunately my investigation was cut short

[Knickgm2190]

The graphics are all very nice. I know the information you have presented. Guarding someone for 8-10 possessions and limiting their output is not a whole game. The question is do you think these players would be severely limited if frank guarded them the whole game? Would Harden have scored 25 instead of 61 or Russell 15 instead of 30? My opinion is he might shave off 5 points a players average at the end of a game. He would have to do more than that being that he is a zero on the other end. You believe he has greater impact. In most cases you provided the players still got to their averages in the end rendering those few possessions with frank guarding them worthless.

the irony is that we never really got a chance to see with either coach.

Bingo, which is kind of inexcusable in a season that didn't matter.

I can agree that he has rarely gotten significant time or when he did he got hurt. I can also say that when you see two different coaches coming to a similar conclusion about a player that the fault is usually with the player. If Frank is the player you believe him to be at some point it is on him to show it. No one can do it for him.

[Jeff Van Gully]

the irony is that we never really got a chance to see with either coach.

Bingo, which is kind of inexcusable in a season that didn't matter.

I can agree that he has rarely gotten significant time or when he did he got hurt. I can also say that when you see two different coaches coming to a similar conclusion about a player that the fault is usually with the player. If Frank is the player you believe him to be at some point it is on him to show it. No one can do it for him.

no lies told. i don't think what we're saying is mutually exclusive.

i think jeff's position was that frank hadn't earned the time. plus he wasn't big on playing young guys heavy unless he had to.

i think fiz likes frank but really doesn't see him as a PG. i can't fault him for that. it was more injury for frank with fiz than much else. i think fiz was trying to not lose the locker room early by giving everyone time to contribute. we had a bad roster balance, so there were period where guys kind of went in and out of the rotation if they didn't run away with the job. once the roster was clear, frank unfortunately got one of those injuries that only time can help with.

mudiay was really the only guard who i thought took big hold of the opportunity until DSJ came. (not saying i think mudiay is an appropriate solution or even the best player, but he was the one who seemed to answer the bell every night and improve.)

[GONYK]

the irony is that we never really got a chance to see with either coach.

Bingo, which is kind of inexcusable in a season that didn't matter.

I can agree that he has rarely gotten significant time or when he did he got hurt. I can also say that when you see two different coaches coming to a similar conclusion about a player that the fault is usually with the player. If Frank is the player you believe him to be at some point it is on him to show it. No one can do it for him.

I agree.

To be fair though, Frank did show it. When he was a starter at PG, we were in the top half of the league defensively and it was by far our most productive lineup.

Fiz removed Frank from the lineup, claiming defensive concerns, and then proceeded to play increasingly worse defensive rotations.

Frank needs to show more offensively for sure, but his defense has been consistent enough to be counted as a rock solid positive.

[god shammgod]

sometimes i think players are given bad advice during summers from their trainers. a lot of guys work on everything when they should possibly narrow their focus. frank needs to work on shooting first and foremost, not because he doesn't need to improve other areas, but because this more than anything is what is gonna keep him in the nba. spend the summer and get up as many shots as you possibly can until you feel as comfortable and confident as possible.