Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

[Knickgm2190]

He is 30th in defensive plus minus for point guards. Not just all players or all guards. 30th for point guards alone. Not good. There you are sir.

Thats a extremely flawed stat because as you know the knicks as a team were one of the worst defensive teams in the league this year. Defensive +/- incorporates #'s for all 5 guys on the court. So if Enes Kanter or THjr is getting destroyed that hurts Frank defensive +/-

you can't use a team defensive stat to show Frank isn't good at defense. Last year he was best player in the league defending the P&R. While this year was up and down with lineups and health. He had his moments of being a top notch defender.

Fun fact. While Frank's PnR ball handler defense was merely above average this year (65th percentile overall with .83ppp), opponents turned the ball over 26% of the time when he was guarding them. That is 13th in the league, top 7 or 8 if you remove outliers

Plus he was 95th percentile in isolation defense this year. Dudes only scored .56 ppp when defended by him in isolation

Kinda seems like the type of dude you want defending the last shot when you're up by one

That's great. All that is gonna get him a trip to another team by the end of this year. Most likely before.

[DOT]

Thats a extremely flawed stat because as you know the knicks as a team were one of the worst defensive teams in the league this year. Defensive +/- incorporates #'s for all 5 guys on the court. So if Enes Kanter or THjr is getting destroyed that hurts Frank defensive +/-

you can't use a team defensive stat to show Frank isn't good at defense. Last year he was best player in the league defending the P&R. While this year was up and down with lineups and health. He had his moments of being a top notch defender.

Fun fact. While Frank's PnR ball handler defense was merely above average this year (65th percentile overall with .83ppp), opponents turned the ball over 26% of the time when he was guarding them. That is 13th in the league, top 7 or 8 if you remove outliers

Plus he was 95th percentile in isolation defense this year. Dudes only scored .56 ppp when defended by him in isolation

Kinda seems like the type of dude you want defending the last shot when you're up by one

That's great. All that is gonna get him a trip to another team by the end of this year. Most likely before.

Why you so salty?

I thought you said it was okay to be wrong? Let's just move on

[Knickgm2190]

You provided one stat

Defense is never explained in one catch all stat, especially when that stat is heavily dependent on outside factors like team play, as defensive plus minus is

That'd be like you using PER to say one player is better than another on offense. Love how y'all find one stat to back up your claims then parade it around without context like how assist% is the be all end all of passing stats

So you said I wouldn't provide a stat. I did and now it can't be just one stat. You're position is getting weaker by the second. Just stop it. It's ok to be wrong. Let's just move on.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Bad faith arguments

You can't accept that you used a flawed stat and are clinging to it for dear life and accusing us of being hypocritical.

It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how stats work, what stat means what, and how each stat is calculated

Cause I just provided multiple stats that prove I'm right compared to your one. That means I win according to your logic, no?

Yes, you win young man. Good job.

[DOT]

So you said I wouldn't provide a stat. I did and now it can't be just one stat. You're position is getting weaker by the second. Just stop it. It's ok to be wrong. Let's just move on.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Bad faith arguments

You can't accept that you used a flawed stat and are clinging to it for dear life and accusing us of being hypocritical.

It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how stats work, what stat means what, and how each stat is calculated

Cause I just provided multiple stats that prove I'm right compared to your one. That means I win according to your logic, no?

Yes, you win young man. Good job.

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[mpharris36]

the defense plus minus had jose calderon as a top 20 defending PG last year....

[Knickgm2190]

Fun fact. While Frank's PnR ball handler defense was merely above average this year (65th percentile overall with .83ppp), opponents turned the ball over 26% of the time when he was guarding them. That is 13th in the league, top 7 or 8 if you remove outliers

Plus he was 95th percentile in isolation defense this year. Dudes only scored .56 ppp when defended by him in isolation

Kinda seems like the type of dude you want defending the last shot when you're up by one

That's great. All that is gonna get him a trip to another team by the end of this year. Most likely before.

Why you so salty?

I thought you said it was okay to be wrong? Let's just move on

Not salty. What I said is likely to happen. Its not made up out of thin air.

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

Russell might win most improved player this year.

[DOT]

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Russell might win most improved player this year.

Yeah, but he only slows down a guy for 2, 3, max 74 possessions

Can't shut a guy down for a game or nothing though

[Jeff Van Gully]

So you telling me this is Hamsterdam?

So if I ever get banned/suspended/warned for anything I say about Frank in here, wouldn’t that qualify as contrapment?

look at the last 2 pages. He's been called lazy. Then someone said "hey he's not lazy he just sucks at basketball". Then a notorious frank hater who derailed post game thread after post game thread posted his feelings without issue. I would see this thread has been a cesspool for Frank haters

You know it ebs and flows tho. Pretty soon the Nathan's hot dog contest eaters will flood this place and bring some balance!

[Knickgm2190]

Read on Twitter

Russell might win most improved player this year.

You are correct he may win that award. It all depends on how good you feel Russell is. I think he is a boom bust player. More volatile then most in his category. He will give you 40 or 12. The type of player that is good in regular season games and bad in playoffs when defense is better. We will see how Russell performs in the playoffs. Now as for Frank, His defense against D'angelo doesn't mean anything to me. Russell is not consistent.

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

Russell might win most improved player this year.

You are correct he may win that award. It all depends on how good you feel Russell is. I think he is a boom bust player. More volatile then most in his category. He will give you 40 or 12. The type of player that is good in regular season games and bad in playoffs when defense is better. We will see how Russell performs in the playoffs. Now as for Frank, His defense against D'angelo doesn't mean anything to me. Russell is not consistent.

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[Chanel Bomber]

I've been blasted for saying this before but I don't think Frank genuinely loves the game of basketball. If you love something, at some point you will show that you care. Your failures or your shortcomings will make you angry. You will work on your craft relentlessly. I don't think Frank cares and I don't blame him for that because I sincerely believe basketball was simply the wrong career path for him.

It's as if making the NBA was his goal so he worked to reach that goal so he could say he made it to his family and now he's done. That's why he flew across the Atlantic to attend the NBA draft even though his team back in France was preparing for the final game of the Pro A finals. Competitors don't do that. They simply don't. He should be out of the league in a couple seasons. By all accounts he's a good kid so I hope he can find happiness in whatever he chooses to do.

Yet Frank is consistently called one of the hardest workers on the team.

Just a few examples:

Read on Twitter

“Physically he was totally prepared for this year,” Fizdale said. “That’s why I felt totally comfortable putting him on different people. He really put a lot into his body this summer. This kid, I feel really bad for him. He’s one of our hardest workers.”

The results haven't been there, mostly due to mental obstacles, but his approach and work ethic have never been questioned by anyone associated with the Knicks or his teams in France.

the team in france also told him to go to the draft. frank was extremely conflicted about it. if anything, going to the draft and heading right back for the chip showed his professionalism on both counts. i think that part of your argument was a reach, chanel bomber.

I appreciate the way you expressed your disagreement. And I understand where you're coming from.

However, I still feel strongly about it. I understand why a young basketball player would be conflicted about this decision. It's a tough one. But in my mind, he made the wrong choice. He was playing professionally for his Strasbourg team. He was under contract and he should have been preparing for the most important game of the season as best as he could. He should have had the mental toughness and the competitive drive to stay in France, regardless of what his team said. If you think it's a reach, I get it. I respect your opinion. But for me this decision was highly symbolic.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Yet Frank is consistently called one of the hardest workers on the team.

Just a few examples:

Read on Twitter

The results haven't been there, mostly due to mental obstacles, but his approach and work ethic have never been questioned by anyone associated with the Knicks or his teams in France.

the team in france also told him to go to the draft. frank was extremely conflicted about it. if anything, going to the draft and heading right back for the chip showed his professionalism on both counts. i think that part of your argument was a reach, chanel bomber.

I appreciate the way you expressed your disagreement. And I understand where you're coming from.

However, I still feel strongly about it. I understand why a young basketball player would be conflicted about this decision. It's a tough one. But in my mind, he made the wrong choice. He was playing professionally for his Strasbourg team. He was under contract and he should have been preparing for the most important game of the season as best as he could. He should have had the mental toughness and the competitive drive to stay in France, regardless of what his team said. If you think it's a reach, I get it. I respect your opinion. But for me this decision was highly symbolic.

i get where you're coming from. i respect your difference of opinion. thanks for the kind words!

[Knickgm2190]

Read on Twitter

Russell might win most improved player this year.

You are correct he may win that award. It all depends on how good you feel Russell is. I think he is a boom bust player. More volatile then most in his category. He will give you 40 or 12. The type of player that is good in regular season games and bad in playoffs when defense is better. We will see how Russell performs in the playoffs. Now as for Frank, His defense against D'angelo doesn't mean anything to me. Russell is not consistent.

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I am quite familiar with Frank's play. I consider him slightly above average or a good defender. That in my opinion is not enough for him to receive consistent playing time on any team being that he is so bad on the opposite end. The team has shown you in their decisions that they agree. It's ok if you don't but it still won't change where he will end up.

[mpharris36]

You are correct he may win that award. It all depends on how good you feel Russell is. I think he is a boom bust player. More volatile then most in his category. He will give you 40 or 12. The type of player that is good in regular season games and bad in playoffs when defense is better. We will see how Russell performs in the playoffs. Now as for Frank, His defense against D'angelo doesn't mean anything to me. Russell is not consistent.

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I am quite familiar with Frank's play. I consider him slightly above average or a good defender. That in my opinion is not enough for him to receive consistent playing time on any team being that he is so bad on the opposite end. The team has shown you in their decisions that they agree. It's ok if you don't but it still won't change where he will end up.

So even you disagree with defensive plus/minus stat

glad to hear

[Knickgm2190]

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I am quite familiar with Frank's play. I consider him slightly above average or a good defender. That in my opinion is not enough for him to receive consistent playing time on any team being that he is so bad on the opposite end. The team has shown you in their decisions that they agree. It's ok if you don't but it still won't change where he will end up.

So even you disagree with defensive plus/minus stat
glad to hear

That I didn't say. Defensive plus minus is only a barometer of a players defensive production. As has been stated, it can be manipulated slightly by those players playing around them. No persons worth is based on one stat alone. What the stat will tell you is that Franks defense is not as good as you think. Use the information or don't it doesn't matter to me. The point is I can say Frank is the best defensive player in the league and it won't matter. He hasn't played like it and its part of the reason he may not be on the team very much longer.

[BKAY]

Franks defense being anything less than above average has to be one of the crappiest takes in a while.

[GONYK]

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?s=19

Once again, Frank's work ethic is praised

[thebuzzardman]

Sometimes it's not hard to figure out why previously banned posters were previously banned

[thebuzzardman]

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?s=19

Once again, Frank's work ethic is praised

It's nice that Fiz said that, but face it, this guy would find good things to say about a mass murderer.