2020 NBA Draft

[Ruzious]

i don't think Ruz was being sarcastic Thomas Bryant is actually one of the best players in the '17 draft. probably top 10 for sure so far.

Eeeeeeehhhhhhhhh I sure hope you are been sarcastic, let's put it that way

Do you seriously not see that what you did here is exactly what you complained about regarding my post?

[No-Man]

i don't think Ruz was being sarcastic Thomas Bryant is actually one of the best players in the '17 draft. probably top 10 for sure so far.

Eeeeeeehhhhhhhhh I sure hope you are been sarcastic, let's put it that way

Do you seriously not see that what you did here is exactly what you complained about regarding my post?

Well obv not, I mean, I meant it (I don't think Bryant is good, sorry) but I was joking kinda, there is a smiley there for a reason

But sorry if that's offensive in some way

[The-Power]

Some positive notes from the Hoop Summit:

– Cole Anthony has once again shown that he'll be a good PG in college and beyond. Not sure if he's going to be a true go-to-score/first option kind of PG – that'll depend on how his pull-up game translates and develops, and/or whether he can get into the heart of the defense consistently with non-elite burst. But he's so poised and plays intelligent basketball, and has no obvious weakness for a PG with some areas of great potential.

– James Wiseman dominated the paint on defense. He's still a bit awkward on offense against talent but shows some flashes. But it's his interior defense that will determine his stock for me. During that game, he looked like the game changer he can potentially be. Relatively raw but visibly oozing potential. Hope he keeps it up and further refines his understanding of angles, positioning and contests.

– Have never really thought that much of Scottie Lewis. But his man-defense has scary upside if he fills out. I really hope he focuses on being a defense-first wing who bothers the living hell out of ball handlers. If he can do that while working on his body and a really spot-up shot, I could grow to really like him as a prospect. Probably not as a top-tier one but still as a good one that could really help NBA teams down the road. His quickness is a weapon for sure, I'd just rather he focuses on opportunistic scoring with that and primarily makes use of it on defense and in the open court.

– Precious Achiuwa I have described as a bundle of athleticism learning to play basketball. Last game he has impressed me despite poor shooting. He is obviously a work in progress in terms of skills, but he has shown me a path that could make him a contributor even with his skills (he did some good stuff leading the break and creating in the half-court). If you add his size, athleticism and energy to that and I'm starting to like him much more. There is some Siakam to him. Skills are raw but there is a foundation – if he can build on that, he could rise pretty high on my (and other's) boards I'd say, as I expect him to be a long-term contributor on defense pretty naturally.

[DirtyDez]

Watch on YouTube

[clyde21]

Some positive notes from the Hoop Summit:

– Cole Anthony has once again shown that he'll be a good PG in college and beyond. Not sure if he's going to be a true go-to-score/first option kind of PG – that'll depend on how his pull-up game translates and develops, and/or whether he can get into the heart of the defense consistently with non-elite burst. But he's so poised and plays intelligent basketball, and has no obvious weakness for a PG with some areas of great potential.

– James Wiseman dominated the paint on defense. He's still a bit awkward on offense against talent but shows some flashes. But it's his interior defense that will determine his stock for me. During that game, he looked like the game changer he can potentially be. Relatively raw but visibly oozing potential. Hope he keeps it up and further refines his understanding of angles, positioning and contests.

– Have never really thought that much of Scottie Lewis. But his man-defense has scary upside if he fills out. I really hope he focuses on being a defense-first wing who bothers the living hell out of ball handlers. If he can do that while working on his body and a really spot-up shot, I could grow to really like him as a prospect. Probably not as a top-tier one but still as a good one that could really help NBA teams down the road. His quickness is a weapon for sure, I'd just rather he focuses on opportunistic scoring with that and primarily makes use of it on defense and in the open court.

– Precious Achiuwa I have described as a bundle of athleticism learning to play basketball. Last game he has impressed me despite poor shooting. He is obviously a work in progress in terms of skills, but he has shown me a path that could make him a contributor even with his skills (he did some good stuff leading the break and creating in the half-court). If you add his size, athleticism and energy to that and I'm starting to like him much more. There is some Siakam to him. Skills are raw but there is a foundation – if he can build on that, he could rise pretty high on my (and other's) boards I'd say, as I expect him to be a long-term contributor on defense pretty naturally.

thank you for these analyses power keep em coming

[clyde21]

Watch on YouTube

is it just me or does he seem small out there? looks closer to 6-1 than 6-3.

[DirtyDez]

Watch on YouTube

is it just me or does he seem small out there? looks closer to 6-1 than 6-3.

He was 6’3” in shoes but they round up at these events. If he’s 6 ft 3 Kyler Murray is 6ft even.

[MemphisX]

question...if ur Memphis...do u want a pick in this draft or keep the pick in 2020?

IMO ideally you want to draft in 2019 and 2020 and give up the unprotected pick in 2021. If your organization is good, you shouldn't be criminally bad in 2021 with Jaren already on the roster and being able to fill out Chandler Parson's salary slot with some talent.

[clyde21]

question...if ur Memphis...do u want a pick in this draft or keep the pick in 2020?

IMO ideally you want to draft in 2019 and 2020 and give up the unprotected pick in 2021. If your organization is good, you shouldn't be criminally bad in 2021 with Jaren already on the roster and being able to fill out Chandler Parson's salary slot with some talent.

yup that is my reasoning as well, if you keep holding it out then that means you think you're gonna be drafting high the year after and that's not really how you build are approach it.

[916fan]

.

[916fan]

What was bad about 2017?

What was good? No legit #1 prospect level talent, deep draft but pretty weak upside, it was an average to below average class

It was terrible. In a few years, we might conclude Thomas Bryant was a top 5 player from that draft.

I think this is revisionist history. Fultz was the sure-fire #1 pick just like AD was in 2012. But since you guys want to be revisionist historians, let's look at the 2017 draft through that lens then. (some stats leave off a tenth, while some % leave off a hundredths). There are 2nd year stats:

1. Donovan Mitchell: 23.8pts 4asts 4rebs 43/36/80
2. DeAaron Fox: 17.3pts 7asts 3.8rebs 45.8/37/72
3. Jayson Tatum: 15.7pts 6rebs 2asts 45/37/85
4. John Collins: 19.5pts 9.8rebs 2asts 56/34.8/76
5. Kyle Kuzma: 18.7pts 5.5rebs 2.5asts 45/30/75
6. Lauri Markkanen: 18.7pts 9rebs 1ast 43/36/87

You also have players like DSJ, Allen, Isaac, Kennard, Lonzo, OG, White, Bam, Hart, Giles, Josh J, Morris, Dotson, Bryant, Monk, Ntilikina, Ferguson, Wilson, Bell, Brooks, and Bacon.

That's a weak draft? 2017 was the best PG draft we've seen since 09. The major hole it had was lack of good Cs at the top which is why Zach Collins went as high as he did.

[No-Man]

That's a weak draft?

Yeah man, no franchise level player at all (I had Fultz 1# like most that year but he was quite clearly not on AD's level or traditional nº1 type level either), pre or post draft really, solid depth (which its a strength but not as important) but a bunch of the dudes you mention are straight up bad/not valuable

That draft has;

Donovan Mitchell
Jayson Tatum

2-way studs that are scalable and likely peak at 2nd banana levels in a contender at most

De'Aaron Fox

really good player but also pretty flawed, hard to see him been good enough as the primary to get a team to high end status, and he has major warts to operate off-ball even if his shooting has improved, also can't switch and condemns your D to been solely traditional

Lauri Markkanen

can't create but will always help teams on offense, probably neutral at best on defense

after those, the best of the rest are guys like Isaac, Ball, White, ZCollins, and maybe maybe, Bam, Allen, Giles, Bell, Bolden, Dotson, SBrown, Wilson, Anunoby, Ferguson, Morris,... who look to be the part as rotation pieces and 2-way guys, but with no high ceiling whatsoever, and the likes of JCollins, Kuzma, Hart, maybe Monk, DSJ, Kennard, Brooks, Bryant, Hartenstein,... who are mainly one way guys (only offense) who are also flawed and at best might be rotation players also with very little hope to be real studs

Like I said, solid depth, but the top of the class is pretty bad, the 2nd worst in this decade after 2016 for example

[Ruzious]

What was good? No legit #1 prospect level talent, deep draft but pretty weak upside, it was an average to below average class

It was terrible. In a few years, we might conclude Thomas Bryant was a top 5 player from that draft.

I think this is revisionist history. Fultz was the sure-fire #1 pick just like AD was in 2012. But since you guys want to be revisionist historians, let's look at the 2017 draft through that lens then. (some stats leave off a tenth, while some % leave off a hundredths). There are 2nd year stats:

1. Donovan Mitchell: 23.8pts 4asts 4rebs 43/36/80
2. DeAaron Fox: 17.3pts 7asts 3.8rebs 45.8/37/72
3. Jayson Tatum: 15.7pts 6rebs 2asts 45/37/85
4. John Collins: 19.5pts 9.8rebs 2asts 56/34.8/76
5. Kyle Kuzma: 18.7pts 5.5rebs 2.5asts 45/30/75
6. Lauri Markkanen: 18.7pts 9rebs 1ast 43/36/87

You also have players like DSJ, Allen, Isaac, Kennard, Lonzo, OG, White, Bam, Hart, Giles, Josh J, Morris, Dotson, Bryant, Monk, Ntilikina, Ferguson, Wilson, Bell, Brooks, and Bacon.

That's a weak draft? 2017 was the best PG draft we've seen since 09. The major hole it had was lack of good Cs at the top which is why Zach Collins went as high as he did.

You lost me at "Fultz was the sure-fire #1 pick just like AD was in 2012". So what? AD was one of the most sure-thng phenominal prospects ever coming out of college. Fultz was a good prospect but not even close to being in the same tier as AD. They weren't equals in any way, shape or form.

And why isn't it ok to use 20/20 hindsight when evaluating past drafts?

[No-Man]

The important point to me is that this 2020 feels quite similar to 2017, there is good depth of talent, but unless Wiseman surprises me, there is no real nº1 type guy, or really high end upside player

I'd say physically Edwards and Wiseman probably fit the bill the most, in terms of game/style/attitude, Cole Anthony, and purely skills, Avdija or Mannion, but all of them have massive flaws really

2021 looks great, but we might have a couple of duds now and next year

[No-Man]

Also generally, if a class doesn't have a stud Forward, it's generally a bad/underwhelming class

This one has some guys but not a real high-water mark type, Deni is the best by a mile to me, people are trying to sell Achiuwa as such and.... nope, Jaden McDaniels, Whitney, Watford,... meh

I might like Hurt the best after Deni, but he is obviously not a high upside guy, same with Isaiah Mobley, I like Wendell Moore and Okoro but they are also more in the do-it-all role player type mold than scorers with 2-way ability, also kinda on the short side

maybe Romeo Weems

[clyde21]

Fultz was NOT a surefire #1 pick, and IIRC there wasn't a real consensus on who should go first. Fultz wasn't even in my top 5

[clyde21]

What was good? No legit #1 prospect level talent, deep draft but pretty weak upside, it was an average to below average class

It was terrible. In a few years, we might conclude Thomas Bryant was a top 5 player from that draft.

I think this is revisionist history. Fultz was the sure-fire #1 pick just like AD was in 2012. But since you guys want to be revisionist historians, let's look at the 2017 draft through that lens then. (some stats leave off a tenth, while some % leave off a hundredths). There are 2nd year stats:

1. Donovan Mitchell: 23.8pts 4asts 4rebs 43/36/80
2. DeAaron Fox: 17.3pts 7asts 3.8rebs 45.8/37/72
3. Jayson Tatum: 15.7pts 6rebs 2asts 45/37/85
4. John Collins: 19.5pts 9.8rebs 2asts 56/34.8/76
5. Kyle Kuzma: 18.7pts 5.5rebs 2.5asts 45/30/75
6. Lauri Markkanen: 18.7pts 9rebs 1ast 43/36/87

You also have players like DSJ, Allen, Isaac, Kennard, Lonzo, OG, White, Bam, Hart, Giles, Josh J, Morris, Dotson, Bryant, Monk, Ntilikina, Ferguson, Wilson, Bell, Brooks, and Bacon.

That's a weak draft? 2017 was the best PG draft we've seen since 09. The major hole it had was lack of good Cs at the top which is why Zach Collins went as high as he did.

a lot of those guys are mentioned have disappointed...DSJ has been riddled with little injuries, Josh J and Lonzo have been sub-par to where expectations were, Monk and Ntilikina are terrible, Bell had a good rookie year but has been a bust in his 2nd season, Isaac isn't anywhere near what a top 5 pick should be, etc.

I don't think it's a bad class by any stretch but it definitely was overrated...I think '19 is gonna end up being better tbh

[No-Man]

Fultz was NOT a surefire #1 pick, and IIRC there wasn't a real consensus on who should go first. Fultz wasn't even in my top 5

You don't remember correctly, it was consensus for the most part, not a slam dunk like Zion or AD, but as consensus as it can be after that

[916fan]

It was terrible. In a few years, we might conclude Thomas Bryant was a top 5 player from that draft.

I think this is revisionist history. Fultz was the sure-fire #1 pick just like AD was in 2012. But since you guys want to be revisionist historians, let's look at the 2017 draft through that lens then. (some stats leave off a tenth, while some % leave off a hundredths). There are 2nd year stats:

1. Donovan Mitchell: 23.8pts 4asts 4rebs 43/36/80
2. DeAaron Fox: 17.3pts 7asts 3.8rebs 45.8/37/72
3. Jayson Tatum: 15.7pts 6rebs 2asts 45/37/85
4. John Collins: 19.5pts 9.8rebs 2asts 56/34.8/76
5. Kyle Kuzma: 18.7pts 5.5rebs 2.5asts 45/30/75
6. Lauri Markkanen: 18.7pts 9rebs 1ast 43/36/87

You also have players like DSJ, Allen, Isaac, Kennard, Lonzo, OG, White, Bam, Hart, Giles, Josh J, Morris, Dotson, Bryant, Monk, Ntilikina, Ferguson, Wilson, Bell, Brooks, and Bacon.

That's a weak draft? 2017 was the best PG draft we've seen since 09. The major hole it had was lack of good Cs at the top which is why Zach Collins went as high as he did.

a lot of those guys are mentioned have disappointed...DSJ has been riddled with little injuries, Josh J and Lonzo have been sub-par to where expectations were, Monk and Ntilikina are terrible, Bell had a good rookie year but has been a bust in his 2nd season, Isaac isn't anywhere near what a top 5 pick should be, etc.

I don't think it's a bad class by any stretch but it definitely was overrated...I think '19 is gonna end up being better tbh

You said a lot of those guys have disappointed, but you only named 6/27 players...which is far from "a lot". There's 6 other players who have taken the league by storm showing All-Star potentials in their 2nd year. The notion that 2nd round players can "bust" is a very bad take. Most 2nd rounders don't even stick in the league after a couple years, and some don't even get rookie contracts.

[clyde21]

I think this is revisionist history. Fultz was the sure-fire #1 pick just like AD was in 2012. But since you guys want to be revisionist historians, let's look at the 2017 draft through that lens then. (some stats leave off a tenth, while some % leave off a hundredths). There are 2nd year stats:

1. Donovan Mitchell: 23.8pts 4asts 4rebs 43/36/80
2. DeAaron Fox: 17.3pts 7asts 3.8rebs 45.8/37/72
3. Jayson Tatum: 15.7pts 6rebs 2asts 45/37/85
4. John Collins: 19.5pts 9.8rebs 2asts 56/34.8/76
5. Kyle Kuzma: 18.7pts 5.5rebs 2.5asts 45/30/75
6. Lauri Markkanen: 18.7pts 9rebs 1ast 43/36/87

You also have players like DSJ, Allen, Isaac, Kennard, Lonzo, OG, White, Bam, Hart, Giles, Josh J, Morris, Dotson, Bryant, Monk, Ntilikina, Ferguson, Wilson, Bell, Brooks, and Bacon.

That's a weak draft? 2017 was the best PG draft we've seen since 09. The major hole it had was lack of good Cs at the top which is why Zach Collins went as high as he did.

a lot of those guys are mentioned have disappointed...DSJ has been riddled with little injuries, Josh J and Lonzo have been sub-par to where expectations were, Monk and Ntilikina are terrible, Bell had a good rookie year but has been a bust in his 2nd season, Isaac isn't anywhere near what a top 5 pick should be, etc.

I don't think it's a bad class by any stretch but it definitely was overrated...I think '19 is gonna end up being better tbh

You said a lot of those guys have disappointed, but you only named 6/27 players...which is far from "a lot". There's 6 other players who have taken the league by storm showing All-Star potentials in their 2nd year. The notion that 2nd round players can "bust" is a very bad take. Most 2nd rounders don't even stick in the league after a couple years, and some don't even get rookie contracts.

you wanted me to go thru all of them? i literally put 'etc.' so I don't have to.

and of course a 2nd rounder isn't a bust, but if you're going to include him on your list, it should be noted that in that context he's been a complete bust in his second year relative to where expectations were after his rookie season.