Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up

[lilfishi22]

Speculate

TJohnson 4 yrs (redo his deal)
DBook 5 yrs
Ayton 4+yrs
Oubre 4 yrs (likely)
Bridges 4 yrs
Warren 3 yrs
Holmes 3 yrs


Thats a pretty solid 7 to have under contract for the next 3 yrs.

Now add 1,2,#3 draft pick if lucky (or some other later pick sleeper) for 4 yrs
Jackson for 2 if he makes it
FA (PF or PG, depending on our draft) 2-3 yrs
May be Bender for 2
Crawford as long as he wants(the glue)

Dudes, Im pretty comfortable going forward with that pack of young hungry losers. Would rather forge on than make some risky trade involving anyone (but Jackson). The rest can stay, and should. Thats a home grown team with some budding stars, some flat out gymrats, some swag, and for the most part, likable players who like each other. The winning will come.

Frank - what do you think a good figure for Tyler Johnson would be. He is owed 19m so if you add 30/3 - that makes him 49/4 s- a cap hit of 12m so cap savings of 7m -- but would he take that deal. The Suns are not the SPurs.

I want to keep Warren - have said that many time

If you re-do Tyler that might give close to enough money. Though I still would not want Morant - want a veteran

Gambo mentioned Thad Young for the PF spot. Thats a pretty decent option to me.

Ja Morant will be a top 5 pg in 3-4 years time. He's like a mix of damian lillard and westbrook. How could anyone not want that? He might end up being the best player from this draft depending on if Zion improves his outside shot. Suns will be stacked if we get Zion, Ja or Rui.

Difference in player projection. Ja is #2 on my Suns board but he's still a question mark and stardom isn't a given. Likewise, with Rui who I like. Oh I also think Rui is a horrible fit next to Ayton.

[BobbieL]

Frank - what do you think a good figure for Tyler Johnson would be. He is owed 19m so if you add 30/3 - that makes him 49/4 s- a cap hit of 12m so cap savings of 7m -- but would he take that deal. The Suns are not the SPurs.

I want to keep Warren - have said that many time

If you re-do Tyler that might give close to enough money. Though I still would not want Morant - want a veteran

Gambo mentioned Thad Young for the PF spot. Thats a pretty decent option to me.

Ja Morant will be a top 5 pg in 3-4 years time. He's like a mix of damian lillard and westbrook. How could anyone not want that? He might end up being the best player from this draft depending on if Zion improves his outside shot. Suns will be stacked if we get Zion, Ja or Rui.

Difference in player projection. Ja is #2 on my Suns board but he's still a question mark and stardom isn't a given. Likewise, with Rui who I like.

I don’t want to wait 3-4 years. Suns need to improve quicker. Maybe if TJ and Josh are moved, at least TJ, the Suns can draft Ja and sign PG or PF. But I still would prefer Warren and a veteran to win sooner.

[alamin330]

Ja Morant will be a top 5 pg in 3-4 years time. He's like a mix of damian lillard and westbrook. How could anyone not want that? He might end up being the best player from this draft depending on if Zion improves his outside shot. Suns will be stacked if we get Zion, Ja or Rui.

Difference in player projection. Ja is #2 on my Suns board but he's still a question mark and stardom isn't a given. Likewise, with Rui who I like.

I don’t want to wait 3-4 years. Suns need to improve quicker. Maybe if TJ and Josh are moved, at least TJ, the Suns can draft Ja and sign PG or PF. But I still would prefer Warren and a veteran to win sooner.

I did say 3-4 years to become top 5 in the NBA. He's going to be better than Collison or Corey Joseph year 1 that's for sure

[dremill24]

Difference in player projection. Ja is #2 on my Suns board but he's still a question mark and stardom isn't a given. Likewise, with Rui who I like.

I don’t want to wait 3-4 years. Suns need to improve quicker. Maybe if TJ and Josh are moved, at least TJ, the Suns can draft Ja and sign PG or PF. But I still would prefer Warren and a veteran to win sooner.

I did say 3-4 years to become top 5 in the NBA. He's going to be better than Collison or Corey Joseph year 1 that's for sure

That’s quite the bold prediction

[WeekapaugGroove]

Ja Morant will be a top 5 pg in 3-4 years time. He's like a mix of damian lillard and westbrook. How could anyone not want that? He might end up being the best player from this draft depending on if Zion improves his outside shot. Suns will be stacked if we get Zion, Ja or Rui.

Difference in player projection. Ja is #2 on my Suns board but he's still a question mark and stardom isn't a given. Likewise, with Rui who I like.

I don’t want to wait 3-4 years. Suns need to improve quicker. Maybe if TJ and Josh are moved, at least TJ, the Suns can draft Ja and sign PG or PF. But I still would prefer Warren and a veteran to win sooner.

While I'm all for trading the pick it's like young players can't contribute. Chips start 2 rookies and Derrick White is a 2nd year guy killing it this series for the Spurs.

Hell Bridges and Ayton were two the best players on the team this year.

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[Crives]

I wonder if this cousins injury gets a lot of players rethinking their player options to sign on long term deals

[jredsaz]

Lets get Ricky Rubio & Draft Ja Morant.

Then let's trade for Aaron Gordon - Warren, Future 1st, Milwaukee pick

Rubio, Morant
Booker, Bridges
Oubre, Jackson
Gordon, Bender
Ayton, Holmes

Gordon ain't going nowhere

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[jredsaz]

Im sorry, but no way the Suns get Simmons on anything close to that deal. There is no way the Suns would get Simmons while also keeping Booker/Ayton/Bridges. Suns would have to give up multiple future 1sts with little to no protection.

If you look at said thread on the Trade Board, it was created by a Suns fan and damn near every post in it is from Suns fans, besides a few posts sprinkled here and there bringing the reality to the thread with posts basically saying no way in hell.

As someone mentioned, Suns might be able to get away with doing a 3-way and somehow netting the Sixers Beal in return, but its still going to cost a pretty penny for the Wizards to give him up.

Rather have Beal than Simmons anyway

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[jredsaz]

Thoughts on Ed Davis as a FA this off season? I saw his name on the list of available PF's a few weeks ago that someone posted and he seems like he could be the same kind of influence as Crawford is/was. Steady player who knows his role and also fills a need. How much will he cost next year?

I like Ed Davis, but he is strictly a C nowadays. He never plays PF anymore (like Faried).

He would be the perfect backup C for us, he is one of the best rebounders in the league and he is better defensively and smarter with the ball than Holmes. The guy doesn't commit mistakes.

Other name that I want to comment is JaMychal Green.

He IS a PF who is very good on defense and he is tough. He is a good 3p shooter and probably is the most realistic target for us in FA at that position. He will be 29 next season, I would be OK giving to him a $24M / 3 years contract.

James Jones said in a recent interview that we are gonna try to get a PF with his profile...

Read on Twitter

Yeah Green would be a good under the radar target.

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His RPM #s are super concerning. 93 this year and 75 last among power forwards. We sure he is a good defender?

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[jredsaz]

Ed Davis , Jaymike Green, Kliebber, Theis, TYoung, Moute, Faried, ..... are these guys starters ??

There is not but a few PF FAs that I'd want over Warren and his short comings.
Randle, Mirotic, Aminu, ... are there any others ? Harris likely not, nor Parker.

It might be difficult for significant improvement at PF through free agency. I wouldnt count on it.

Best case is drafting Zion.... #2 would be signing Aminu or Randle/Mirotic... 3rd may be drafting Clarke or some other sleeper and start TJ.

Outside shot, Big Swing Bower goes after a 'Love' type PF, like he did with Griffin.... and that would at least cost Warren plus some picks.

Totally agree. Upgrading the four in FA will be difficult.

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[jredsaz]

Speculate

TJohnson 4 yrs (redo his deal)
DBook 5 yrs
Ayton 4+yrs
Oubre 4 yrs (likely)
Bridges 4 yrs
Warren 3 yrs
Holmes 3 yrs


Thats a pretty solid 7 to have under contract for the next 3 yrs.

Now add 1,2,#3 draft pick if lucky (or some other later pick sleeper) for 4 yrs
Jackson for 2 if he makes it
FA (PF or PG, depending on our draft) 2-3 yrs
May be Bender for 2
Crawford as long as he wants(the glue)

Dudes, Im pretty comfortable going forward with that pack of young hungry losers. Would rather forge on than make some risky trade involving anyone (but Jackson). The rest can stay, and should. Thats a home grown team with some budding stars, some flat out gymrats, some swag, and for the most part, likable players who like each other. The winning will come.

Frank - what do you think a good figure for Tyler Johnson would be. He is owed 19m so if you add 30/3 - that makes him 49/4 s- a cap hit of 12m so cap savings of 7m -- but would he take that deal. The Suns are not the SPurs.

I want to keep Warren - have said that many time

If you re-do Tyler that might give close to enough money. Though I still would not want Morant - want a veteran

Gambo mentioned Thad Young for the PF spot. Thats a pretty decent option to me.

I dont think you go that far out. I would offer him a 2/$27 with $13 in year one and $14 in year two with $6 of that guaranteed. Its basically a 1 year $8 mil extension. Guessing that would get it done.

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[AtheJ415]

Rookie PGs usually suck for a few years. It's the most competitive position in the NBA, and the most difficult to play mentally.

I don't expect Ja to be a positive year 1. I think being neutral would actually be a damn good sign. Offensively, he's going to be very good. I see no doubt about that.

I just really question anybody who honestly thinks the Suns are so close to done with this rebuild that we should abandon doing what's best for the long-term to get a bottom-tier vet starter over the 2nd pick of even this draft. The long-term should still be the primary focus, even though I'd agree we should try to get real vets in FA instead of the lazy final paycheck ones we have had the past 3 years, and build off what seemed to be a better culture towards the end of the year. If we have the 2nd pick, we shouldn't be passing on Ja, or even Barrett (who I'm not a big fan of but can see the upside), not unless we are packaging it for somebody who is a true difference maker (to me Kemba is the bottom-tier of difference maker group, meaning somebody AT LEAST as good as him). Even Jrue, who I love, I would probably still take Ja over, but it would be damn close. It would depend on the outgoing salary and what that additional money could get us in FA / the opportunity cost of Jrue's additional salary.

We should not be adopting any absolute mentality that the pick HAS to be moved because we need vets, or the opposite. It depends on the vet and it depends on FA and trade options that we are certain of.

I don't expect that the vet we could add for passing on the 2nd or 3rd pick is going to be worth moving it. Even later on in the draft if we slip, I don't see a vet who is as good a fit as Clarke who would cost as little as him and who we could get for that pick.

[lilfishi22]

Lets get Ricky Rubio & Draft Ja Morant.

Then let's trade for Aaron Gordon - Warren, Future 1st, Milwaukee pick

Rubio, Morant
Booker, Bridges
Oubre, Jackson
Gordon, Bender
Ayton, Holmes

Gordon ain't going nowhere

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I keep biting my tongue when it comes to Gordon because of his age, athleticism and rebounding ability but I really think he's one of the more overrated players discussed on here. I don't know if it's the Arizona connection but every time I hear his name brought up, I just think overrated. I don't get the love for AG

[AtheJ415]

Ed Davis , Jaymike Green, Kliebber, Theis, TYoung, Moute, Faried, ..... are these guys starters ??

There is not but a few PF FAs that I'd want over Warren and his short comings.
Randle, Mirotic, Aminu, ... are there any others ? Harris likely not, nor Parker.

It might be difficult for significant improvement at PF through free agency. I wouldnt count on it.

Best case is drafting Zion.... #2 would be signing Aminu or Randle/Mirotic... 3rd may be drafting Clarke or some other sleeper and start TJ.

Outside shot, Big Swing Bower goes after a 'Love' type PF, like he did with Griffin.... and that would at least cost Warren plus some picks.

Totally agree. Upgrading the four in FA will be difficult.

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Kliebber is the guy we should want at the 4. He's a young vet (relatively), and he is a monster defender (like top 5 at his position in the league) and can shoot the 3. We are restricted on offering him due to his RFA status, and I bet the Mavericks match the max we could offer which IIRC is $8 mil a year. I would see if we could get him for the Milwaukee pick if that happened.

I'm not high on any of the others for anything other than 1 year deals except maybe Mirotic, but I just hate his lack of versatility and defensive fit next to Ayton. I'd almost rather take a flyer on Randle and hope he keeps improving. Aminu I think is destined to be overpaid even though he also is a fit. He's a great role player but the worst contracts in this league are overpaid role players who signed 3+ year deals, and that seems to be what I see a lot of people suggesting, and we also seem doomed to do the same with Oubre (who at least has some untapped upside).

[jredsaz]

Ed Davis , Jaymike Green, Kliebber, Theis, TYoung, Moute, Faried, ..... are these guys starters ??

There is not but a few PF FAs that I'd want over Warren and his short comings.
Randle, Mirotic, Aminu, ... are there any others ? Harris likely not, nor Parker.

It might be difficult for significant improvement at PF through free agency. I wouldnt count on it.

Best case is drafting Zion.... #2 would be signing Aminu or Randle/Mirotic... 3rd may be drafting Clarke or some other sleeper and start TJ.

Outside shot, Big Swing Bower goes after a 'Love' type PF, like he did with Griffin.... and that would at least cost Warren plus some picks.

Totally agree. Upgrading the four in FA will be difficult.

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Kliebber is the guy we should want at the 4. He's a young vet (relatively), and he is a monster defender (like top 5 at his position in the league) and can shoot the 3. We are restricted on offering him due to his RFA status, and I bet the Mavericks match the max we could offer which IIRC is $8 mil a year. I would see if we could get him for the Milwaukee pick if that happened.

I'm not high on any of the others for anything other than 1 year deals except maybe Mirotic, but I just hate his lack of versatility and defensive fit next to Ayton. I'd almost rather take a flyer on Randle and hope he keeps improving. Aminu I think is destined to be overpaid even though he also is a fit. He's a great role player but the worst contracts in this league are overpaid role players who signed 3+ year deals, and that seems to be what I see a lot of people suggesting, and we also seem doomed to do the same with Oubre (who at least has some untapped upside).

Damn. You beat me to it. Maxi Kleber is a diamond in the ruff.

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[jredsaz]

Ed Davis , Jaymike Green, Kliebber, Theis, TYoung, Moute, Faried, ..... are these guys starters ??

There is not but a few PF FAs that I'd want over Warren and his short comings.
Randle, Mirotic, Aminu, ... are there any others ? Harris likely not, nor Parker.

It might be difficult for significant improvement at PF through free agency. I wouldnt count on it.

Best case is drafting Zion.... #2 would be signing Aminu or Randle/Mirotic... 3rd may be drafting Clarke or some other sleeper and start TJ.

Outside shot, Big Swing Bower goes after a 'Love' type PF, like he did with Griffin.... and that would at least cost Warren plus some picks.

Totally agree. Upgrading the four in FA will be difficult.

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Kliebber is the guy we should want at the 4. He's a young vet (relatively), and he is a monster defender (like top 5 at his position in the league) and can shoot the 3. We are restricted on offering him due to his RFA status, and I bet the Mavericks match the max we could offer which IIRC is $8 mil a year. I would see if we could get him for the Milwaukee pick if that happened.

I'm not high on any of the others for anything other than 1 year deals except maybe Mirotic, but I just hate his lack of versatility and defensive fit next to Ayton. I'd almost rather take a flyer on Randle and hope he keeps improving. Aminu I think is destined to be overpaid even though he also is a fit. He's a great role player but the worst contracts in this league are overpaid role players who signed 3+ year deals, and that seems to be what I see a lot of people suggesting, and we also seem doomed to do the same with Oubre (who at least has some untapped upside).

Why can the Suns only offer $8 million, now?

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[AtheJ415]

Here's the reality of FA for us. It depends on the draft, but we probably need 1 really solid starter (not 2), and 1 role player, because the draft or trading the pick should take care of 1 of the spots.

If we get the 1st pick, we're drafting Zion. We then just need a PG and a backup 4. There are plenty of options, we'll get one of the starting PGs and a backup quality 4.

If we get the 2nd pick, we're drafting Ja or Barrett. I like Culver and Clarke but doubt we'd take either there. Both are considered playmakers, so we'd target a good starting 4 in FA or via trade, and get a role playing 1 like a Collison or Joseph or Bev.

If we fall any further we likely trade the pick to account for 1 of the 2 glaring needs at the 1 and 4, or take Clarke, who fits one of those needs.

There isn't a scenario where we should be entering FA needing both positions filled. I think in the Ja scenario, we'd still want a starting 1, but it should be a cheap guy like Bev (bottom tier starter whose offers are small enough where we could afford to overpay a bit to start for a couple years only).

[Crives]

Here's the reality of FA for us. It depends on the draft, but we probably need 1 really solid starter (not 2), and 1 role player, because the draft or trading the pick should take care of 1 of the spots.

If we get the 1st pick, we're drafting Zion. We then just need a PG and a backup 4. There are plenty of options, we'll get one of the starting PGs and a backup quality 4.

If we get the 2nd pick, we're drafting Ja or Barrett. I like Culver and Clarke but doubt we'd take either there. Both are considered playmakers, so we'd target a good starting 4 in FA or via trade, and get a role playing 1 like a Collison or Joseph or Bev.

If we fall any further we likely trade the pick to account for 1 of the 2 glaring needs at the 1 and 4, or take Clarke, who fits one of those needs.

There isn't a scenario where we should be entering FA needing both positions filled. I think in the Ja scenario, we'd still want a starting 1, but it should be a cheap guy like Bev (bottom tier starter whose offers are small enough where we could afford to overpay a bit to start for a couple years only).

My favorite scenario is trading our pick for Jrue and Clarke. I might even consider moving Morant for Jrue + Clarke.

[AtheJ415]

Totally agree. Upgrading the four in FA will be difficult.

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Kliebber is the guy we should want at the 4. He's a young vet (relatively), and he is a monster defender (like top 5 at his position in the league) and can shoot the 3. We are restricted on offering him due to his RFA status, and I bet the Mavericks match the max we could offer which IIRC is $8 mil a year. I would see if we could get him for the Milwaukee pick if that happened.

I'm not high on any of the others for anything other than 1 year deals except maybe Mirotic, but I just hate his lack of versatility and defensive fit next to Ayton. I'd almost rather take a flyer on Randle and hope he keeps improving. Aminu I think is destined to be overpaid even though he also is a fit. He's a great role player but the worst contracts in this league are overpaid role players who signed 3+ year deals, and that seems to be what I see a lot of people suggesting, and we also seem doomed to do the same with Oubre (who at least has some untapped upside).

Why can the Suns only offer $8 million, now?

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I think it's the Arenas rule. Kleber has a max in FA that is lower than he would get in the open market, so the odds of Dallas letting him go is probably really low.

[AtheJ415]

Here's the reality of FA for us. It depends on the draft, but we probably need 1 really solid starter (not 2), and 1 role player, because the draft or trading the pick should take care of 1 of the spots.

If we get the 1st pick, we're drafting Zion. We then just need a PG and a backup 4. There are plenty of options, we'll get one of the starting PGs and a backup quality 4.

If we get the 2nd pick, we're drafting Ja or Barrett. I like Culver and Clarke but doubt we'd take either there. Both are considered playmakers, so we'd target a good starting 4 in FA or via trade, and get a role playing 1 like a Collison or Joseph or Bev.

If we fall any further we likely trade the pick to account for 1 of the 2 glaring needs at the 1 and 4, or take Clarke, who fits one of those needs.

There isn't a scenario where we should be entering FA needing both positions filled. I think in the Ja scenario, we'd still want a starting 1, but it should be a cheap guy like Bev (bottom tier starter whose offers are small enough where we could afford to overpay a bit to start for a couple years only).

My favorite scenario is trading our pick for Jrue and Clarke. I might even consider moving Morant for Jrue + Clarke.

I just don't see why NO would do that though. If they wanted pick 2 (Morant), they are looking to rebuild. Trading Jrue is a sign of that rebuild. I think they'd hold out on trading their own pick on top of that. It would be great for Phx if NO was willing.