WWE SmackDown Discussion II

[Picasso]

Really ot was Roman reigns?

[Spens1]

Bayley is a good addition (Bayley, Becky and Charlotte as well as Ember, Asuka and Kairi, damn).

As for Roman, i thought as much but please stop Vince, Roman as your golden boy is not happening (it didn't work 5 years ago, it isn't going to work now). He's not going to bring ratings to tuesdays (in fact i do believe he is a proven anti-draw which doesn't help with the Fox situation).

also 'Future of the WWE' he's been the future for the last 5 freaking years. Give someone else a go or better yet, why not get rid of this ridiculous notion that you need a guy, the attitude era didn't really have a top guy at all and did perfectly fine (i mean technically it was Austin or the The Rock, depending on who you ask, but they had Angle, Taker, HHH and Jericho all at the top of the card as well). WWE need to have around 4-5 main event guys (on each roster) rather than putting their eggs into one basket.

[Spens1]

Guys stop. Say what you want about reigns the character but as a worker he's certainly a main eventer. Too much salt.

He's not a main event worker though, the guy gets way too gassed after like 20 minutes, his matches are often disjointed messes unless he's working with someone really good across (i.e. a Daniel Bryan level wrestler). However it is his strength if they book him in shorter brawls and non technical matches (probably something closer to an attitude era style).

His mic work is still absolutely attrocious 5 years on.

He has in ring presence, good psychology and a good look, that doesn't make a main eventer when you compare him to the talent WWE has (he's not even in the top 10 all around given how stacked the wwe roster is right now).

[improper]

He has in ring presence, good psychology and a good look, that doesn't make a main eventer when you compare him to the talent WWE has (he's not even in the top 10 all around given how stacked the wwe roster is right now).

Not even top twenty if you include NXT.

[Spens1]

He has in ring presence, good psychology and a good look, that doesn't make a main eventer when you compare him to the talent WWE has (he's not even in the top 10 all around given how stacked the wwe roster is right now).

Not even top twenty if you include NXT.

I'll try and list who are probably better overall:

Seth Rollins (by a fair bit)
Daniel Bryan
AJ Styles
Matt Riddle
Velveteen Dream (as an overall package)
Adam Cole
Johnny Gargano (far and away the best wrestler in the entire company and maybe alongside Omega, best in North America)
Tommaso Ciampa (when he was healthy)
Aleistar Black
Andrade Cien Almas
Drew McIntyre
The Miz (albeit they're about the same level)
Sami Zayn
Kevin Owens
Cesaro
Big E
Kof Kingston
Rusev
Samoa Joe
Shinsuke Nakamura (when he can be bothered showing up)
Keith Lee
Pete Dunne
WALTER

So you're probably right i guess but some of the people on this list are questionable given they're about the same level.

[improper]

I'll try and list who are probably better overall:

Seth Rollins (by a fair bit)
Daniel Bryan
AJ Styles
Matt Riddle
Velveteen Dream (as an overall package)
Adam Cole
Johnny Gargano (far and away the best wrestler in the entire company and maybe alongside Omega, best in North America)
Tommaso Ciampa (when he was healthy)
Aleistar Black
Andrade Cien Almas
Drew McIntyre
The Miz (albeit they're about the same level)
Sami Zayn
Kevin Owens
Cesaro
Big E
Kof Kingston
Rusev
Samoa Joe
Shinsuke Nakamura (when he can be bothered showing up)
Keith Lee
Pete Dunne
WALTER

So you're probably right i guess but some of the people on this list are questionable given they're about the same level.

Gonna have to disagree that Miz and Roman are on the same level. Miz is far, far better than Roman from a character and mic work standpoint, and I think he's quite a bit better as a worker too. Miz has improved a lot as a worker and can keep up with even the best workers in the company. He's not a top ten in-ring guy or anything, but he's definitely better than Roman.

Agree with basically everyone else on your list.

I'll add Buddy Murphy. Could probably add some other guys if I looked at the roster but I think you listed enough to prove the point.

[tugs]

Other additions that could be lost in the SD shuffle:

Crews
Gable
Otis and Tucker
Liv Morgan (really splitting up Riott squad?!)

I don't know how to react.

[bestnamezRtaken]

Guys stop. Say what you want about reigns the character but as a worker he's certainly a main eventer. Too much salt.

You won't convince the wrestling experts that frequent this forum to change their minds.

[tugs]

Guys stop. Say what you want about reigns the character but as a worker he's certainly a main eventer. Too much salt.

You won't convince the wrestling experts that frequent this forum to change their minds.

I think it's more about having our preferred "Golden Boy" to Vince's "Golden Boy". Not taking anything away from Reigns' improvements but he's not there yet.

[bestnamezRtaken]

People are always still going to find something to complain about when it comes to Roman.

Now the announcement from Vince was very obvious, if you weren't thinking it was going to be Roman, you're just silly. But that was an awkward super man punch to Vince though. Does it make sense? No. Why did it happen? To try and get Roman over. It was dumb.

I did actually enjoy Big O as an honorary member of the New Day though, it was fun, KO killed it with the Big E entrance for their match. I was also expecting a heel turn though, I felt that would have been a good time to do it to give Kofi his first feud. Would be cool to see Cesaro get that opportunity though as it appears The Bar is no more.

[daoneandonly]

I'll try and list who are probably better overall:

Seth Rollins (by a fair bit)
Daniel Bryan
AJ Styles
Matt Riddle
Velveteen Dream (as an overall package)
Adam Cole
Johnny Gargano (far and away the best wrestler in the entire company and maybe alongside Omega, best in North America)
Tommaso Ciampa (when he was healthy)
Aleistar Black
Andrade Cien Almas
Drew McIntyre
The Miz (albeit they're about the same level)
Sami Zayn
Kevin Owens
Cesaro
Big E
Kof Kingston
Rusev
Samoa Joe
Shinsuke Nakamura (when he can be bothered showing up)
Keith Lee
Pete Dunne
WALTER

So you're probably right i guess but some of the people on this list are questionable given they're about the same level.

Gonna have to disagree that Miz and Roman are on the same level. Miz is far, far better than Roman from a character and mic work standpoint, and I think he's quite a bit better as a worker too. Miz has improved a lot as a worker and can keep up with even the best workers in the company. He's not a top ten in-ring guy or anything, but he's definitely better than Roman.

Agree with basically everyone else on your list.

I'll add Buddy Murphy. Could probably add some other guys if I looked at the roster but I think you listed enough to prove the point.

Overall includes mic and wrestling skills right? If so, Cesaro, Gargano, and nakamura are seriously lacking. At leats with shinske, its a language barrier, not his fault, and he has charisma, but the other 2 dont have much of an excuse. I don't know enough about lee or walter to make a call there.

[improper]

Overall includes mic and wrestling skills right? If so, Cesaro, Gargano, and nakamura are seriously lacking. At leats with shinske, its a language barrier, not his fault, and he has charisma, but the other 2 dont have much of an excuse. I don't know enough about lee or walter to make a call there.

Look, I know you have some vendetta against Gargano, but he is absolutely 100% better on the mic than Roman Reigns. Johnny can go out and cut a promo without embarrassing himself, and more importantly he can keep the crowd. He's not one of the top five mic guys in the company, but he's certainly good on the mic. And I think you're gonna have a hard time convincing anyone of your ridiculous Gargano hot takes after you said he's only getting pushed because of his hot blond wife who, mind you, has never been pushed.

Cesaro is about on Roman's level as a talker, but he's ten times better as a worker.

Nakamura is worse on the mic, to be sure, but he's got a natural charisma that Reigns just lacks. If they gave Nakamura a real push, he'd get himself over. They've spent over five years giving Reigns the biggest push in the company and he never has gotten himself over. The only time he got cheers was when he returned from fighting cancer, and he's already lost most of his good will from that.

[daoneandonly]

Overall includes mic and wrestling skills right? If so, Cesaro, Gargano, and nakamura are seriously lacking. At leats with shinske, its a language barrier, not his fault, and he has charisma, but the other 2 dont have much of an excuse. I don't know enough about lee or walter to make a call there.

Look, I know you have some vendetta against Gargano, but he is absolutely 100% better on the mic than Roman Reigns. Johnny can go out and cut a promo without embarrassing himself, and more importantly he can keep the crowd. He's not one of the top five mic guys in the company, but he's certainly good on the mic. And I think you're gonna have a hard time convincing anyone of your ridiculous Gargano hot takes after you said he's only getting pushed because of his hot blond wife who, mind you, has never been pushed.

Cesaro is about on Roman's level as a talker, but he's ten times better as a worker.

Nakamura is worse on the mic, to be sure, but he's got a natural charisma that Reigns just lacks. If they gave Nakamura a real push, he'd get himself over. They've spent over five years giving Reigns the biggest push in the company and he never has gotten himself over. The only time he got cheers was when he returned from fighting cancer, and he's already lost most of his good will from that.

Please show me video evidence of these wonderful Gargano promos, cause unless he's feeding off of guys liek Cole or Ciampa, no he's barely average. Look at his program with another guy who lack's mic skills, Aleister Black (or Andrade), was he turning heads with his promos there. I remember when Roman was feeding off Cena, those promos were gold. I dont have a vendetta as much as u have an obsession with the guy

And I didn't mean he only got pushed because of larea, I meant he really benefited from her presence. One of the biggest pops during his match with Andrade was when she attacked Vega, so eyah, she absolutley propped him up.

[Spens1]

I'll try and list who are probably better overall:

Seth Rollins (by a fair bit)
Daniel Bryan
AJ Styles
Matt Riddle
Velveteen Dream (as an overall package)
Adam Cole
Johnny Gargano (far and away the best wrestler in the entire company and maybe alongside Omega, best in North America)
Tommaso Ciampa (when he was healthy)
Aleistar Black
Andrade Cien Almas
Drew McIntyre
The Miz (albeit they're about the same level)
Sami Zayn
Kevin Owens
Cesaro
Big E
Kof Kingston
Rusev
Samoa Joe
Shinsuke Nakamura (when he can be bothered showing up)
Keith Lee
Pete Dunne
WALTER

So you're probably right i guess but some of the people on this list are questionable given they're about the same level.

Gonna have to disagree that Miz and Roman are on the same level. Miz is far, far better than Roman from a character and mic work standpoint, and I think he's quite a bit better as a worker too. Miz has improved a lot as a worker and can keep up with even the best workers in the company. He's not a top ten in-ring guy or anything, but he's definitely better than Roman.

Agree with basically everyone else on your list.

I'll add Buddy Murphy. Could probably add some other guys if I looked at the roster but I think you listed enough to prove the point.

Overall includes mic and wrestling skills right? If so, Cesaro, Gargano, and nakamura are seriously lacking. At leats with shinske, its a language barrier, not his fault, and he has charisma, but the other 2 dont have much of an excuse. I don't know enough about lee or walter to make a call there.

Oh yeah Cesaro, Gargano and Nakamura aren't really good mic workers BUT Cesaro and Gargano are much MUCH better than Roman in the ring (especially Gargano) and Nakamura has an innate charisma that no one in the world has right now other than him which for me helped them over the line over Roman.

Honestly Gargano is more or less equal to Roman on the mic anyway (they both suck at it, then again Gargano cutting heel promos wasn't that bad).

[daoneandonly]

Gonna have to disagree that Miz and Roman are on the same level. Miz is far, far better than Roman from a character and mic work standpoint, and I think he's quite a bit better as a worker too. Miz has improved a lot as a worker and can keep up with even the best workers in the company. He's not a top ten in-ring guy or anything, but he's definitely better than Roman.

Agree with basically everyone else on your list.

I'll add Buddy Murphy. Could probably add some other guys if I looked at the roster but I think you listed enough to prove the point.

Overall includes mic and wrestling skills right? If so, Cesaro, Gargano, and nakamura are seriously lacking. At leats with shinske, its a language barrier, not his fault, and he has charisma, but the other 2 dont have much of an excuse. I don't know enough about lee or walter to make a call there.

Oh yeah Cesaro, Gargano and Nakamura aren't really good mic workers BUT Cesaro and Gargano are much MUCH better than Roman in the ring (especially Gargano) and Nakamura has an innate charisma that no one in the world has right now other than him.

See this i can agree with

[improper]

Oh yeah Cesaro, Gargano and Nakamura aren't really good mic workers BUT Cesaro and Gargano are much MUCH better than Roman in the ring (especially Gargano) and Nakamura has an innate charisma that no one in the world has right now other than him.

I think Gargano is a good mic worker. Just not a great one. He can go out and cut a promo and the crowd will care. He's also a really good heel, although he only got to half-showcase that in NXT since they never fully turned him. He was an awesome heel in the indies when he got the chance.

And he also has that innate charisma that Roman will never have.

Roman is better than Gargano at exactly two things:

1. Having the type of look that makes Vince's paints get tighter.
2. Being related to the Rock.

[Spens1]

Oh yeah Cesaro, Gargano and Nakamura aren't really good mic workers BUT Cesaro and Gargano are much MUCH better than Roman in the ring (especially Gargano) and Nakamura has an innate charisma that no one in the world has right now other than him.

I think Gargano is a good mic worker. Just not a great one. He can go out and cut a promo and the crowd will care. He's also a really good heel, although he only got to half-showcase that in NXT since they never fully turned him. He was an awesome heel in the indies when he got the chance.

And he also has that innate charisma that Roman will never have.

Roman is better than Gargano at exactly two things:

1. Having the type of look that makes Vince's paints get tighter.
2. Being related to the Rock.

The only time he cut really good promos though was against Gargano. Other then that he's really rather medicore on the mic.

He's a damn good heel but he's certainly much more an in ring guy atm than mic guy (i mean it isn't the end of the world, i can see him having a Bryan or AJ level improvement there as well).

Roman isn't bad, he just needs a heel turn that would allow him actual development, they just need to get the idea that

1. He isn't the guy
2. Let him develop naturally via a heel turn (and let him get comfortable on the mic and find his character, which 5 years after the start of the push he still hasn't found).

[tugs]

Just would like to remind everyone that thing we had called, "The Cesaro Section".

On another topic, not sure why I'm bothered seeing the New Day, hip thrusting Kofi with the WWE Title. I'd rather the intense, Kofi workhorse champ that happened to be part of New Day.

[daoneandonly]

Just would like to remind everyone that thing we had called, "The Cesaro Section".

On another topic, not sure why I'm bothered seeing the New Day, hip thrusting Kofi with the WWE Title. I'd rather the intense, Kofi workhorse champ that happened to be part of New Day.

I'm with you. Serious, focused, determined Kofi is money, the overly jovial one screams more midcard than WWE champ

[bestnamezRtaken]

Overall includes mic and wrestling skills right? If so, Cesaro, Gargano, and nakamura are seriously lacking. At leats with shinske, its a language barrier, not his fault, and he has charisma, but the other 2 dont have much of an excuse. I don't know enough about lee or walter to make a call there.

Look, I know you have some vendetta against Gargano, but he is absolutely 100% better on the mic than Roman Reigns. Johnny can go out and cut a promo without embarrassing himself, and more importantly he can keep the crowd. He's not one of the top five mic guys in the company, but he's certainly good on the mic. And I think you're gonna have a hard time convincing anyone of your ridiculous Gargano hot takes after you said he's only getting pushed because of his hot blond wife who, mind you, has never been pushed.

Cesaro is about on Roman's level as a talker, but he's ten times better as a worker.

Nakamura is worse on the mic, to be sure, but he's got a natural charisma that Reigns just lacks. If they gave Nakamura a real push, he'd get himself over. They've spent over five years giving Reigns the biggest push in the company and he never has gotten himself over. The only time he got cheers was when he returned from fighting cancer, and he's already lost most of his good will from that.

Please show me video evidence of these wonderful Gargano promos, cause unless he's feeding off of guys liek Cole or Ciampa, no he's barely average. Look at his program with another guy who lack's mic skills, Aleister Black (or Andrade), was he turning heads with his promos there. I remember when Roman was feeding off Cena, those promos were gold. I dont have a vendetta as much as u have an obsession with the guy

And I didn't mean he only got pushed because of larea, I meant he really benefited from her presence. One of the biggest pops during his match with Andrade was when she attacked Vega, so eyah, she absolutley propped him up.

I still don't agree with this at all. I'm not even that big of a fan of Gargano like some others are. I just don't understand why you keep going back to this point. It's like saying Brie Bella helped get Daniel Bryan over. Nikki Bella helped get Cena over. Zelina Vega helped get Aleister Black over. It's just not true and rather silly to say.