WWE SmackDown Discussion II

[daoneandonly]

Look, I know you have some vendetta against Gargano, but he is absolutely 100% better on the mic than Roman Reigns. Johnny can go out and cut a promo without embarrassing himself, and more importantly he can keep the crowd. He's not one of the top five mic guys in the company, but he's certainly good on the mic. And I think you're gonna have a hard time convincing anyone of your ridiculous Gargano hot takes after you said he's only getting pushed because of his hot blond wife who, mind you, has never been pushed.

Cesaro is about on Roman's level as a talker, but he's ten times better as a worker.

Nakamura is worse on the mic, to be sure, but he's got a natural charisma that Reigns just lacks. If they gave Nakamura a real push, he'd get himself over. They've spent over five years giving Reigns the biggest push in the company and he never has gotten himself over. The only time he got cheers was when he returned from fighting cancer, and he's already lost most of his good will from that.

Please show me video evidence of these wonderful Gargano promos, cause unless he's feeding off of guys liek Cole or Ciampa, no he's barely average. Look at his program with another guy who lack's mic skills, Aleister Black (or Andrade), was he turning heads with his promos there. I remember when Roman was feeding off Cena, those promos were gold. I dont have a vendetta as much as u have an obsession with the guy

And I didn't mean he only got pushed because of larea, I meant he really benefited from her presence. One of the biggest pops during his match with Andrade was when she attacked Vega, so eyah, she absolutley propped him up.

I still don't agree with this at all. I'm not even that big of a fan of Gargano like some others are. I just don't understand why you keep going back to this point. It's like saying Brie Bella helped get Daniel Bryan over. Nikki Bella helped get Cena over. Zelina Vega helped get Aleister Black over. It's just not true and rather silly to say.

I bring it up only because we have a poster or 2 who do nothing but bass the main roster, but then declare Johnny Wrestling the greatest thing ever, he's not, and he's not even close. The only reaosn Cena. bryan,a nd even Uso's relationships are mentioned is because of Total Divas. We don't hear about Zelina/Aleister, Sarah Logan/Viking guy, but we do gargano/Larea, why? because IMO, he needed that extra oomph.

[bestnamezRtaken]

I'm sorry, but your credibility is going down when you continue to claim that his wife was needed to give him that extra oomph.

[improper]

I'm sorry, but your credibility is going down when you continue to claim that his wife was needed to give him that extra oomph.

I think that it's far more likely that Candice has a WWE job because of Johnny than that Johnny is getting pushed (in NXT, which Vince doesn't run) because of her.

Not that she doesn't deserve it, because she's a solid wrestler and very likable. However, she's not really the type Vince loves. Yeah, she's blonde, but she's short and doesn't have the giant fake balloon tits that Vince seems to love. She's more cute than hot imo.

[daoneandonly]

I'm sorry, but your credibility is going down when you continue to claim that his wife was needed to give him that extra oomph.

I think that it's far more likely that Candice has a WWE job because of Johnny than that Johnny is getting pushed (in NXT, which Vince doesn't run) because of her.

Not that she doesn't deserve it, because she's a solid wrestler and very likable. However, she's not really the type Vince loves. Yeah, she's blonde, but she's short and doesn't have the giant fake balloon tits that Vince seems to love. She's more cute than hot imo.

That could be true. I just wonder why so many non Total divas WWE couples dont get acknowledged at all, but Gargano/Candice do

[bestnamezRtaken]

Likely because they chose to make it public. Ricochet and Kacy Cantanzaro don't hide their relationship at all. If you check out the WWEPC official YouTube channel, they have plenty of videos together showing they're a couple. Do know that Gargano isn't over because of his wife. Gargano is a great wrestler, you can't deny that at all, he's a top talent in the ring, he's only okay on the mic, he can get a promo off better than Roman and connect with the audience better as well. He's better than Cesaro and Shinsuke on the mic, but he's not as good as Tommaso. You can't deny his body of work and the results they've produced.
http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler-star-ratings/johnny-gargano-3447.html
There is his page rating his matches by Dave Meltzer, who's been rating matches since the beginning of time. People take his star ratings on matches to help show how good a match was. But then again, other people don't care for his ratings and say he's biased when it comes to NJPW v WWE. Take it for what you will.

[WRau1]

Candice was introduced to the feud to show how personal it was between Gargano and Ciampa.

[Stanford]

Candice was introduced to the feud to show how personal it was between Gargano and Ciampa.

Exactly, lol. Ciampa talked about this on Edge and Christian's podcast recently.

[improper]

That could be true. I just wonder why so many non Total divas WWE couples dont get acknowledged at all, but Gargano/Candice do

1. The main roster and NXT are very different. Vince cares about Total Divas, which is why the girls who go on it tend to be the ones who get pushed. Triple H likely doesn't give a sh*t about Total Divas, and will push whoever he wants in NXT.

2. Johnny and Candice were already married when Candice joined WWE. Not dating. Married. This may sound like a trivial difference, but it is not. Given how often people tend to get into and out of relationships, it makes sense to not push two people as a couple when they've only been dating a short time.

3. It fits both their characters to be associated, as they are both fiery underdog babyfaces. Contrast this with, say, Black and Vega. Black is a face and Vega is not only a heel, but a heel who is playing valet for a different wrestler. It would make little sense for their relationship to become an on-screen thing at present. I'd also argue that Black is a character who is meant to be somewhat mysterious, and thus having an on-screen girlfriend would kind of undermine that. Johnny's character, on the other hand, is more that of a man of the people, and thus being happily married works within the confines of who he is on screen (which is more or less who he is off screen too).

But you're never going to see every relationship fleshed out on screen for the reasons I listed above and probably others as well.

[improper]

Likely because they chose to make it public. Ricochet and Kacy Cantanzaro don't hide their relationship at all. If you check out the WWEPC official YouTube channel, they have plenty of videos together showing they're a couple. Do know that Gargano isn't over because of his wife. Gargano is a great wrestler, you can't deny that at all, he's a top talent in the ring, he's only okay on the mic, he can get a promo off better than Roman and connect with the audience better as well. He's better than Cesaro and Shinsuke on the mic, but he's not as good as Tommaso. You can't deny his body of work and the results they've produced.
http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler-star-ratings/johnny-gargano-3447.html
There is his page rating his matches by Dave Meltzer, who's been rating matches since the beginning of time. People take his star ratings on matches to help show how good a match was. But then again, other people don't care for his ratings and say he's biased when it comes to NJPW v WWE. Take it for what you will.

I prefer Csonka's reviews to Meltzer, as I feel he's both less of a mark for himself and because I tend to agree with his ratings for the most part. Obviously I disagree with him at times, but the matches he loves are usually matches I also end up loving, and so I trust his reviews.

[daoneandonly]

Likely because they chose to make it public. Ricochet and Kacy Cantanzaro don't hide their relationship at all. If you check out the WWEPC official YouTube channel, they have plenty of videos together showing they're a couple. Do know that Gargano isn't over because of his wife. Gargano is a great wrestler, you can't deny that at all, he's a top talent in the ring, he's only okay on the mic, he can get a promo off better than Roman and connect with the audience better as well. He's better than Cesaro and Shinsuke on the mic, but he's not as good as Tommaso. You can't deny his body of work and the results they've produced.
http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler-star-ratings/johnny-gargano-3447.html
There is his page rating his matches by Dave Meltzer, who's been rating matches since the beginning of time. People take his star ratings on matches to help show how good a match was. But then again, other people don't care for his ratings and say he's biased when it comes to NJPW v WWE. Take it for what you will.

He can go in the ring, never discounted that, I just don't think he's better than Zayn, KO, DB, Styles, Rollins, Ciampa, Andrade, etc, and considering the majority of those guys are also far superior to him on the mic, I dont see how he has a case for best in the world. I think we'll get a better idea when he moves to the main roster, where the booking si worse, time is limited, and he'll undoubtedly have to go up against certain guys who aren't great workers (less of case in NXT).

[improper]

I really don't know how Andrade keeps making his way onto these lists. Johnny is better than him in the ring and is way better on the mic seeing as Andrade doesn't even speak English. Almas is great, but he's not as good as Johnny. His sole MOTY contender was against Johnny, and as we've covered numerous times, that sure as sh*t ain't Johnny's only MOTY candidate considering he has one at damn near every Takeover.

[bestnamezRtaken]

I don't think Johnny is the best in the world. He's likely top 10 for sure. It's just hard to make a list without criteria.

[improper]

I don't think Johnny is the best in the world. He's likely top 10 for sure. It's just hard to make a list without criteria.

I'm not sure if he's best in the world, as I don't watch enough NJPW to accurately judge their guys (and they have a lot of talented wrestlers), but I think that, based on the past two years, you can at least make an argument for him.

[tugs]

I have a poor argument but "Johnny Wrestling!" should tell us something.

[Spens1]

I'm sorry, but your credibility is going down when you continue to claim that his wife was needed to give him that extra oomph.

I think that it's far more likely that Candice has a WWE job because of Johnny than that Johnny is getting pushed (in NXT, which Vince doesn't run) because of her.

Not that she doesn't deserve it, because she's a solid wrestler and very likable. However, she's not really the type Vince loves. Yeah, she's blonde, but she's short and doesn't have the giant fake balloon tits that Vince seems to love. She's more cute than hot imo.

Candice's use has been criminal, then again they don't do very much intergender wrestling otherwise she'd be perfect in that role.

[Spens1]

I don't think Johnny is the best in the world. He's likely top 10 for sure. It's just hard to make a list without criteria.

Well I tried to look at three things:

- Wrestling Ability
- Mic Work
- Charisma (which can be broken down into aura/physical charisma and just oral charisma, which i guess feeds into mic work anyway)

If you are good at all three chances are you're probably the guy

I guess if i where to do this for Roman

Wrestling Ability: 6.5/10 (he's gotten worse though over the last couple of years in ring, back in 2017 he was probably the best in ring big man alongside Rusev)
Mic Work: 2/10 (he's horrid, no way around that)
Charisma: 7.5/10 (he does have a good physical presence at least)

I mean he has potential and is certainly decent and i'd say deserving of an upper mid card position (going in and out of the main event sporadicly and permanently being in an IC or US championship title hunt) but face of the company material he is not.

Cena may have been worse than him in the ring but he was good on the mic and had charisma. The Rock in his prime was a decent wrestler and had god tier mic work and charisma and same goes for Stone Cold. Bret had all 3 on point (god tier wrestling, very good mic work and charisma). Hogan wasn't all that in the ring but again, amazing mic work and charisma.

Roman just doesn't have one category that he overall excels at, most of the faces of the company excelled in at least one and the best ones with at least 2.

Then again I guess those ratings are merely subjective regardless.

[Spens1]

I don't think Johnny is the best in the world. He's likely top 10 for sure. It's just hard to make a list without criteria.

I'm not sure if he's best in the world, as I don't watch enough NJPW to accurately judge their guys (and they have a lot of talented wrestlers), but I think that, based on the past two years, you can at least make an argument for him.

I'd put Okada, Omega, Ibushi and Ishii slightly above him in terms of overall in ring delivery and Naito on par with him (then again Naito hasn't had as the same caliber opponents as Gargano and his match quality hasn't been quiet as good).

NNo doubt though he'd be in the top 10 in the world overall, well within it. If he was in New Japan, chances are he'd be IC or US Champ and people would be clamoring for him to be Omega's replacement as the Gaijin Ace (ok now i'm sad Gargano isn't in New Japan tbh).

[bestnamezRtaken]

Watch on YouTube

It seems Johnny Gargano has already wrestled on the main roster...years and years ago. He mentions an elf outfit and now I can't unsee Gargano as an elf.

[improper]

It seems Johnny Gargano has already wrestled on the main roster...years and years ago. He mentions an elf outfit and now I can't unsee Gargano as an elf.

Ciampa was on the main roster too back in the day. Got chokeslammed by Undertaker and everything. He even had hair.

[iMoreland]

It took me until tonight to realize this, but Charlotte Flair's character reminds me a lot of Cersei Lannister from Game of Thrones. Both are fantastic.