Will Barton Thread

U hova · Post #1 » by **U hova** » Sat Mar 9, 2019 5:19 am

OP EDIT (by THE J0KER): This thread is about Will Barton role in Denver Nuggets after 2019 all-star break.

Post #2 » by **The Rebel** » Sat Mar 9, 2019 4:14 pm

I have a feeling I would have enjoyed reading the original post more than the edit.

Barton is not a bad guy, he seems well liked and according to all reports he is trying to fit into what the Nuggets are doing. The problem is that he does not have the mentality to fit in. It was obvious that as soon as the Warriors hit a couple of shots to start the game he panicked and decided he was going to take over the game. The 1st quarter that Barton played last night was one of the worst games I have ever seen from a starter, and he came out and tried the same crap in the 2nd half, which blows my mind. He is not good enough to be a primary scorer, he is not good enough to have the ball in his hands near as much as he does, and his defense sucks as bad as his PG skills.

Malone has always loved iso players and it has cost us the playoffs last year and looks to be costing us homecourt this year. He is overplaying Barton and Thomas, while the good off the ball players we have are sat down or standing in the corner and our good on ball players are struggling to get touches. For all the hype and love Malone got earlier in the season, this entire situation reminds me of 2 years ago when we had 8 guys available and went on a run to get us back to playoff contention, only to miss out when we got healthy. I don't think that Malone is the long term answer, but I am not sure that the front office will ever hold him accountable as they have not done it to the point.

The truth is I am starting to question our front office more and more, there is no question that they are great at drafting talent. We have plenty of talent, but they really seem to base their whole long term plan on who wants to be here and who don't. If a guy wants to be here than they will overpay him, regardless of how he fits with the direction of the team, and god forbid they trade that guy when it is obvious that he is a poor fit. I am questioning if they will ever be able to build a contender with their inability to make the tough decisions. Barton and Lyles should have been gone for a good backup PF, and Thomas should be cut right now, but instead we are sitting watching them blow up our season while being handed too many minutes and the coaching staff bitches about guys being selfish. Our chemistry is flying out the window and it is the coaches and front offices fault.

skywalker33 · Post #3 » by **skywalker33** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:44 pm

So he's been an enigma player for us this year, you never know what you're gonna get. He can shoot the lights out for us or shoot the life out of us. I think he's much better as a spark off the bench but and interesting question....

What would be his trade value ??

Post #4 » by **The Rebel** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:06 pm

I don't think he has a ton of value, but I do think he has some value. Say a solid expiring end of rotation guy and small or lesser asset. I said that I would trade him for Harkless and Zach Collins and still think that has merit to it, especially since Collins has been replaced by Kanter in the rotation, and Harkless is not a big enough expiring to give them any cap space to get that bench scorer that they desperately need. If you look at the deal than you can see that Harkless is not really a starting quality SF, he is just a defensive small forward that starts sometimes because they have few other options, and Collins was mid-lotto pick that was a known project, that has not progressed quick enough for a team with 2 stars well into their prime.

U hova · Post #5 » by **U hova** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:21 pm

skywalker33 wrote:So he's been an enigma player for us this year, you never know what you're gonna get. He can shoot the lights out for us or shoot the life out of us. I think he's much better as a spark off the bench but and interesting question....

What would be his trade value ??

A protected 2nd rounder

I'm not really interested in getting back fair value. The Front Office needs to own up to the mistake they made.

Post #6 » by **NuggetsWY** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:32 pm

Harkless would be a nice bench player on the Nuggets.
Collins, I believe, will be a free agent but I actually like that concept.

Barton's value is probably less than it should be simply because he doesn't fit well in Denver. On some teams, he could be a dynamite player. I'd love to have a 3rd string true center or a 15 mpg forward (either slot). Of course for a player like that, we should be able to get a future 1st as well.

skywalker33 · Post #7 » by **skywalker33** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:16 am

Guess I see it a bit different. We all have seen the selfish side of Barton and that has lead to a despisal of him as a player given how the core of this team plays. Most Nuggets fans view him as as an unwanted ISO player. However, there are teams that want his type of ISO game. I see his value as somewhere in the 25-40 range. He's fairly young, can score, provides versatility and does have some playmaking ability. While he doesn't fit real well in most fans opinions, Malone does see the need for that instant offense, at least until we can find that kind of consistency from Murray. His contract isn't terrible enough to lock us into him for its duration so I'm kinda wondering if we could package him with another asset before next trade deadline, perhaps the deal Rebel suggested (like Collins but not as high on Harkless) but very doable IMO. I could see using him to move up in the 2020 draft ( I like our drafting prowess and I am a draftnik).

But however it happens, not only should we look to remove his erratic play and open playing time for MPJ, more importantly we need to open up cap space for the 2020 offseason (AD will need a new contract, right ??)

SkillzFromThe6 · Post #8 » by **SkillzFromThe6** » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:15 pm

(After Utah Jazz loss)

Read on Twitter

PZiv · Post #9 » by **PZiv** » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:24 am

Will Barton would be my prime suspect of being traded in the offseason. Detroit or some other team with hole on SF could use him and some assets would be great for future. Especially that he can be effectively replaced by Malik, Juancho and MPJ next season, if we can take this season as example.

skywalker33 · Post #10 » by **skywalker33** » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:30 pm

Very astute

Coeur · Post #11 » by **Coeur** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:40 pm

The Rebel wrote:I don't think he has a ton of value, but I do think he has some value. Say a solid expiring end of rotation guy and small or lesser asset. I said that I would trade him for Harkless and Zach Collins and still think that has merit to it, especially since Collins has been replaced by Kanter in the rotation, and Harkless is not a big enough expiring to give them any cap space to get that bench scorer that they desperately need. If you look at the deal than you can see that Harkless is not really a starting quality SF, he is just a defensive small forward that starts sometimes because they have few other options, and Collins was mid-lotto pick that was a known project, that has not progressed quick enough for a team with 2 stars well into their prime.

Seems like way too good of a return. I’d think Nugs would have to add good value to that.

Coeur · Post #12 » by **Coeur** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:46 pm

Trading him to Boston at draft for a pick would be ideal

Post #13 » by **NuggetsWY** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:01 pm

Coeur wrote:Trading him to Boston at draft for a pick would be ideal

Boston seems a very unlikely target for Boston. They have Smart at SG with some young talent too plus at SF they have Brown, Tatum, Hayward, Ojeleye and I'd suggest all five of those wings are better than Barton.

U hova · Post #14 » by **U hova** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:49 pm

Separate of his performance, do y'all agree with the booing?

Post #15 » by **NuggetsWY** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:00 pm

U hova wrote:Separate of his performance, do y'all agree with the booing?

I don't boo!

Post #16 » by **The Rebel** » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:34 pm

Coeur wrote:
The Rebel wrote:I don't think he has a ton of value, but I do think he has some value. Say a solid expiring end of rotation guy and small or lesser asset. I said that I would trade him for Harkless and Zach Collins and still think that has merit to it, especially since Collins has been replaced by Kanter in the rotation, and Harkless is not a big enough expiring to give them any cap space to get that bench scorer that they desperately need. If you look at the deal than you can see that Harkless is not really a starting quality SF, he is just a defensive small forward that starts sometimes because they have few other options, and Collins was mid-lotto pick that was a known project, that has not progressed quick enough for a team with 2 stars well into their prime.

Seems like way too good of a return. I’d think Nugs would have to add good value to that.

That value was based on the idea that he would get healthy and start playing more up to his standards, now I am not so sure that he even can be dumped, he has looked terrible and totally out of sorts lately.

U hova wrote:Separate of his performance, do y'all agree with the booing?

I do not boo the hometeam and never have. Even some of the terrible teams I have seen over the years I have never booed my team which has been hard at times as both a Nuggets and Raiders fan. I do however understand why people boo their own team, and if you were going to boo someone, booing the guy who was ignoring the offense to jack bad shots and play iso ball at least made sense. Barton was terrible and it was not the missed shots that were the problem, it was the way he was getting those shots. At least with Murray they were in the flow of the offense, Barton though was killing us on both end.

That being said I do not think as many people were booing as the media is making it out to be, the boos were not that clear over the cheering. I also am not of the belief that it is up to the fans to make guys confident or to cheer regardless of play of outcome, I just as a fan do not do it.

Post #17 » by **NuggetsWY** » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:48 pm

The Rebel wrote:
Coeur wrote:
The Rebel wrote:I don't think he has a ton of value, but I do think he has some value. Say a solid expiring end of rotation guy and small or lesser asset. I said that I would trade him for Harkless and Zach Collins and still think that has merit to it, especially since Collins has been replaced by Kanter in the rotation, and Harkless is not a big enough expiring to give them any cap space to get that bench scorer that they desperately need. If you look at the deal than you can see that Harkless is not really a starting quality SF, he is just a defensive small forward that starts sometimes because they have few other options, and Collins was mid-lotto pick that was a known project, that has not progressed quick enough for a team with 2 stars well into their prime.

Seems like way too good of a return. I’d think Nugs would have to add good value to that.

That value was based on the idea that he would get healthy and start playing more up to his standards, now I am not so sure that he even can be dumped, he has looked terrible and totally out of sorts lately.

Some undervalue Barton, but that's because he does not fit in our starting lineup and perhaps because of lingering injury issues. No doubt the NBA management understands he built his reputation as a 6th man scorer. Typically those guys can run hot & cold but they have great value - on the right team. Argument can be made that Barton is better next to Jokic but so is every other player. IMO his greatest value for the Nuggets would be to play whenever Jokic is on the bench and allow him to be the #1 scorer off the bench. He'd fit well in a lineup with Plumlee, Hernangomez, Beasley, Morris. That gives him three spotup shooters and a center that's great at rolling to the rim. 15-20 mpg along with a few more when he's having a hot shooting night and his value rises more.

My problem is not Barton's stats being better when he's on the court with Jokic, my problem is the stats of other players that are on the court at the same time as Jokic & Barton. I'm not a stats guru but the eye-test says others do not do as well when Barton is on the court with Jokic as when they are on the court with Jokic and no Barton.

He's got value - for sure.! :nod:

U hova · Post #18 » by **U hova** » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:32 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:Some undervalue Barton, but that's because he does not fit in our starting lineup and perhaps because of lingering injury issues. No doubt the NBA management understands he built his reputation as a 6th man scorer. Typically those guys can run hot & cold but they have great value - on the right team. Argument can be made that Barton is better next to Jokic but so is every other player. IMO his greatest value for the Nuggets would be to play whenever Jokic is on the bench and allow him to be the #1 scorer off the bench. He'd fit well in a lineup with Plumlee, Hernangomez, Beasley, Morris. That gives him three spotup shooters and a center that's great at rolling to the rim. 15-20 mpg along with a few more when he's having a hot shooting night and his value rises more.

My problem is not Barton's stats being better when he's on the court with Jokic, my problem is the stats of other players that are on the court at the same time as Jokic & Barton. I'm not a stats guru but the eye-test says others do not do as well when Barton is on the court with Jokic as when they are on the court with Jokic and no Barton.

He's got value - for sure.!

I used to have the same mentality about Barton's role, (bringing him off the bench when Jokic is sitting) but Morris and Beasley being so efficient off the bench has made it so that I don't even want Barton running out with the bench unit...

Post #19 » by **THE J0KER** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:08 am

Read on Twitter

Seems that Barton is delusional and unrealistic, which makes his case even worse. Being a bad fit for starting lineup is bad for the player too, and it is in Barton interest to come from the bench. But he doesn't see it.

TunaFish · Post #20 » by **TunaFish** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:17 pm

It is also being reported that Harrison Wind took Barton's comment out of context. That in fact, Barton understood the move and was going to do his best coming off the bench which is what we saw in game four. I would not have expected Barton to like moving out of the starting lineup.

I have always thought Barton was better coming of the bench and thought his contract lined up with other top sixth man. His injury has been a setback and he doesn't look like himself. I also remember what he did at the end of last season when the Nuggets made their run.

To soon to know whether Barton can be a factor in the playoffs but I admit that he has largely been a disappointment. If he finds his stroke he could yet be a factor.