Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up

[lilfishi22]

Be prepared for skinny ‘dog’

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Is he talking about his next team/destination lol?

I think he’s trying to be a positive leader for the suns, but who knows.

“I’m done with not making the playoffs. I’m serious,” Booker said Wednesday as the Suns conducted their exit interviews following a 21-61 season. “This is probably the last year I’m ever not making the playoffs.

If only you can speak it into existence. Like Lavar

[Ghost of Kleine]

My favorite scenario is trading our pick for Jrue and Clarke. I might even consider moving Morant for Jrue + Clarke.

Hard to do with their pick hovering around #7

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2 should be enough, 3 possibly, 4 might require our 2020 1st.

Jrue and Clarke would be an amazing haul for sure. However, I just don't see a scenario in which they'll want to move Jrue.

I mean, If they trade Davis, They'll get back a Kings ransom from either the Celtics or Lakers, Or any other team looking to acquire Davis.

And these players that they'll be adding to their already solid core, Will easily add to their roster depth and talent level.

So they can still compete with any return that they get for Davis obviously.

Also, IF Davis decides to stay, Then they're obviously going to want to still compete, and therefore, Jrue still stays.

Besides, they have full contractual control of Jrue for 3 more years, So it's not up to him either way honestly.

I really don't think a G.M. like Griffin, New to his position in New Orleans, is going to want to give in to yet another player's whims, after the Davis fiasco honestly. It would reflect pretty badly on him in his first summer on the job.

So, The last thing they're going to want to do is give up their other franchise piece, and force the fans to relive the Davis type drama all over again.

And more importantly, New Orleans won't even be able to listen to the best offers from Boston (as they still don't want to deal with the Lakers) until July 1st.

So they're unlikely to entertain any trade offers for Jrue, until they know for sure what will happen with Davis, post draft.

Finally, Jrue doesn't want to play point guard, He wants to play the shooting guard position. That's why New Orleans has been looking for a point guard in the return package for Davis( if he gets traded).

That should also be a fairly decent indicator that they intend to keep him either way and compete with whatever players they will get in return.

Plus, their Lotto pick this year. Again, he'd be great for us, but I just don't think he's a realistic target we can acquire.

Our best bet is pretty much what AtheJ outlined, and Work things out in free agency or trade, post draft.

Pick 1- Draft Zion/ In free agency, sign Collison or Joseph. Sign Beverly with our exception.

Pick 2- Draft Morant/ In free agency, sign Aminu or Taj Gibson, Or Thaddeus young.

Pick 4- Draft Clarke, *** Trade Jackson and our 2nd to Boston for Daniel Theiss and their 12th pick.( use it on either Garland or Kabengele for added depth ). In Free agency, Sign Collison or Joseph. Using our exception, sign Beverly.

Pick 5-7- We trade back with a team like Boston for their 12th pick( take White, Garland or Kabengele) and a future first (2020) from either Memphis or Sacramento by giving them Jackson and our pick in the 5-7 range.

We do this to increase our cap space going into free agency. Now we fill out the roster with Aminu/ Collison and Beverly for added veteran depth.

*** depending upon how much cap we increase by moving back to 12 in the draft, And moving Jackson for addition cap space??....I think we can now make Mirotic, Brook Lopez, Other higher quality free agents better offers.

[bwgood77]

Ed Davis , Jaymike Green, Kliebber, Theis, TYoung, Moute, Faried, ..... are these guys starters ??

There is not but a few PF FAs that I'd want over Warren and his short comings.
Randle, Mirotic, Aminu, ... are there any others ? Harris likely not, nor Parker.

It might be difficult for significant improvement at PF through free agency. I wouldnt count on it.

Best case is drafting Zion.... #2 would be signing Aminu or Randle/Mirotic... 3rd may be drafting Clarke or some other sleeper and start TJ.

Outside shot, Big Swing Bower goes after a 'Love' type PF, like he did with Griffin.... and that would at least cost Warren plus some picks.

Totally agree. Upgrading the four in FA will be difficult.

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Kliebber is the guy we should want at the 4. He's a young vet (relatively), and he is a monster defender (like top 5 at his position in the league) and can shoot the 3. We are restricted on offering him due to his RFA status, and I bet the Mavericks match the max we could offer which IIRC is $8 mil a year. I would see if we could get him for the Milwaukee pick if that happened.

I'm not high on any of the others for anything other than 1 year deals except maybe Mirotic, but I just hate his lack of versatility and defensive fit next to Ayton. I'd almost rather take a flyer on Randle and hope he keeps improving. Aminu I think is destined to be overpaid even though he also is a fit. He's a great role player but the worst contracts in this league are overpaid role players who signed 3+ year deals, and that seems to be what I see a lot of people suggesting, and we also seem doomed to do the same with Oubre (who at least has some untapped upside).

Aminu is solid. I read something about him and who his defensive assignment was in each game this season and it was impressive. He's underrated. Portland is the one team that consistently beats my expectations, which shouldn't happen when they continue to do it, but he plays a big part in that.

That being said, I think Portland will try to keep him and he really doesn't excite me that much as a guy to sign..but I think he would be probably the best realistic target. I've mentioned Kleber a lot...I like him. Mirotic would be good but better defense would be nice and I also think he will have a lot of suitors so unlikely chooses us. I don't think Randle is a good fit at all with his defense. I imagine they keep him anyway. Probably too expensive for us. I

do agree about Oubre. We will overpay him. Had we not traded for him I doubt we would be targeting him. At least he wants to play for us but his impact is a bit overrated considering we didn't really win much after adding him, even had our 17 game losing streak, but when we added Tyler Johnson we had that nice little stretch and Oubre seemed to somehow get most of the credit then. I know he started some in that stretch but he played plenty before that with starters. He kind of hit the perfect storm with the right attitude to get overpaid. But hopefully no one else gives him too big of an offer and we just sign him to a reasonable deal. I do like that he is excited to be here...his attitude and helping keep the team in good spirits might be the most valuable thing he adds. Hopefully his play improves.

[Crives]

Hard to do with their pick hovering around #7

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2 should be enough, 3 possibly, 4 might require our 2020 1st.

Jrue and Clarke would be an amazing haul for sure. However, I just don't see a scenario in which they'll want to move Jrue.

I mean, If they trade Davis, They'll get back a Kings ransom to add to their still solid core. And they can still compete with any return that they get for Davis obviously.

Also, IF Davis resigns, they're obviously going to want to compete, and Jrue still stays. Besides, they have full contractual control of Jrue for 3 more years, So it's not up to him either way honestly.

So, The last thing they're going to want to do is give up their other franchise piece, and force the fans to relive the Davis type drama all over again.

Finally, Jrue doesn't want to play point guard, He wants to play the shooting guard position. That's why New Orleans has been looking for a point guard in the return package for Davis.

That should also be a decent indicator that they intend to keep him either way and compete with whatever players they will get in return.

Plus, their Lotto pick this year. Again, he'd be great for us, but I just don't think he's a realistic target we can acquire.

I hear you, if they get back assets of players in their prime it makes sense to keep Jrue.

But consider this

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if the return on the AD trade is really young players, I could totally see them moving Holiday for RJ/Culver and set back the clocks, especially if Jrue doesn’t want to be part of a rebuild

[Ghost of Kleine]

2 should be enough, 3 possibly, 4 might require our 2020 1st.

Jrue and Clarke would be an amazing haul for sure. However, I just don't see a scenario in which they'll want to move Jrue.

I mean, If they trade Davis, They'll get back a Kings ransom to add to their still solid core. And they can still compete with any return that they get for Davis obviously.

Also, IF Davis resigns, they're obviously going to want to compete, and Jrue still stays. Besides, they have full contractual control of Jrue for 3 more years, So it's not up to him either way honestly.

So, The last thing they're going to want to do is give up their other franchise piece, and force the fans to relive the Davis type drama all over again.

Finally, Jrue doesn't want to play point guard, He wants to play the shooting guard position. That's why New Orleans has been looking for a point guard in the return package for Davis.

That should also be a decent indicator that they intend to keep him either way and compete with whatever players they will get in return.

Plus, their Lotto pick this year. Again, he'd be great for us, but I just don't think he's a realistic target we can acquire.

I hear you, if they get back assets of players in their prime it makes sense to keep Jrue.

But consider this

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if the return on the AD trade is really young players, I could totally see them moving Holiday for RJ/Culver and set back the clocks, especially if Jrue doesn’t want to be part of a rebuild

That's definitely a good and valid point man. Still, They maintain contractual control of Jrue for like 3 more years, and at the worst, I could see them forcing him to play out his contract after what Anthony Davis pulled recently.

Also, A few things to consider, currently the best trade package is going to come from Boston, and that would likely contain Jaylen brown, Jason Tatum and Marcus smart or Al Horford. Depending upon who they choose.

So you add those players (with current playoff experience) to New Orleans core of Holiday, Randle, Okafor, etc. (Plus Whoever they add with their pick this year) and their really deep and already can compete faster.

So overall, they'll still prefer to compete. But again, most importantly, Davis was a player who embarassed them(Pels) by trying to force his way out. If anything, they're going to want to display that the franchise will not be bullied and that they have the power and not the players on contracts.

They'll be looking to send a clear message that they won't roll over and be bullied by their own players, Or else become the laughing stocks of the league, wherein nobody takes them seriously as a franchise.

Again, I agree that he'd be great here. I just, in my opinion, don't see the Pels front office choosing to give in to any more players trade demands whilst under contract, As they may believe that they will be perceived as weak. Especially if it were to happen twice in a season.

[Frank Lee]

Spoiler:

Speculate

TJohnson 4 yrs (redo his deal)
DBook 5 yrs
Ayton 4+yrs
Oubre 4 yrs (likely)
Bridges 4 yrs
Warren 3 yrs
Holmes 3 yrs


Thats a pretty solid 7 to have under contract for the next 3 yrs.

Now add 1,2,#3 draft pick if lucky (or some other later pick sleeper) for 4 yrs
Jackson for 2 if he makes it
FA (PF or PG, depending on our draft) 2-3 yrs
May be Bender for 2
Crawford as long as he wants(the glue)


Dudes, Im pretty comfortable going forward with that pack of young hungry losers. Would rather forge on than make some risky trade involving anyone (but Jackson). The rest can stay, and should. Thats a home grown team with some budding stars, some flat out gymrats, some swag, and for the most part, likable players who like each other. The winning will come.

Frank - what do you think a good figure for Tyler Johnson would be. He is owed 19m so if you add 30/3 - that makes him 49/4 s- a cap hit of 12m so cap savings of 7m -- but would he take that deal. The Suns are not the SPurs.

I want to keep Warren - have said that many time

If you re-do Tyler that might give close to enough money. Though I still would not want Morant - want a veteran

Gambo mentioned Thad Young for the PF spot. Thats a pretty decent option to me.

Im not sure on this, but I read somewhere TJohnson has been prepaid the a portion of his deal and is due only 12.5 mill this year from us. His cap #s remain. Again, not 100% on that, as I could not find any googly info. Anyway... I'd offer him 4 yrs at 11-12 each.. Again tho, the main reason for that is to gain the extra space for a specific player... but its a solid show of faith. The more I read about TJo, the more I see long term value. Hes a baller, like Warren.

And I have z e r o apprehensions about Ja being able to run the second unit.... as he is working his way to the first. No thanks to any perpetual second string vet PG on a 2 yr inflated deal, if choosing him over Morant.

Gambologne doing the same as we do here... going through the list and realizing its slim pickings for FA PFs. He's probably lurking about right now. Next week he'll talk up Jabari

So much depends on our draft position... 1 in 4 to get a top 2. Kind of sucks but its better than 11 other teams.

[Frank Lee]

Why can the Suns only offer $8 million, now?

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I think it's the Arenas rule. Kleber has a max in FA that is lower than he would get in the open market, so the odds of Dallas letting him go is probably really low.

Solid pull. It's what happened to Tyler Johnson. The contract itself could be made unpalatable if the Suns were willing to do something similar. The first years salary can only be as high as the Non Taxpayer MLE ($9.1 mil). The following season can only increase 5%. However, the third year can match the the total amount of space the Suns have available at the time the Suns sign the player. This could create a problem for a team like the Mavs looking for flexibility to build around Luka and Zing. Also the Mavs could be star hunting this offseason. Put probably not. Maxi can play.

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And this is why Johnson was paid part of his salary early? He agreed to a 4 yr 50 mill deal... but the the first two yrs were limited by CBA rules, and the last two were at 18-19 mill to make up the difference. Miami paid him 12.5 per evening out the cash flow i guess.

Kleber would be ideal... but if Cuban if can sign him (like TJo), pay him good to keep him, while have a discounted cap hit up front... i just dont see why he wouldnt match and keep. If thats how it would work.

[hollywood6964]

Spoiler:

Speculate

TJohnson 4 yrs (redo his deal)
DBook 5 yrs
Ayton 4+yrs
Oubre 4 yrs (likely)
Bridges 4 yrs
Warren 3 yrs
Holmes 3 yrs


Thats a pretty solid 7 to have under contract for the next 3 yrs.

Now add 1,2,#3 draft pick if lucky (or some other later pick sleeper) for 4 yrs
Jackson for 2 if he makes it
FA (PF or PG, depending on our draft) 2-3 yrs
May be Bender for 2
Crawford as long as he wants(the glue)


Dudes, Im pretty comfortable going forward with that pack of young hungry losers. Would rather forge on than make some risky trade involving anyone (but Jackson). The rest can stay, and should. Thats a home grown team with some budding stars, some flat out gymrats, some swag, and for the most part, likable players who like each other. The winning will come.

Frank - what do you think a good figure for Tyler Johnson would be. He is owed 19m so if you add 30/3 - that makes him 49/4 s- a cap hit of 12m so cap savings of 7m -- but would he take that deal. The Suns are not the SPurs.

I want to keep Warren - have said that many time

If you re-do Tyler that might give close to enough money. Though I still would not want Morant - want a veteran

Gambo mentioned Thad Young for the PF spot. Thats a pretty decent option to me.

Im not sure on this, but I read somewhere TJohnson has been prepaid the a portion of his deal and is due only 12.5 mill this year from us. His cap #s remain. Again, not 100% on that, as I could not find any googly info. Anyway... I'd offer him 4 yrs at 11-12 each.. Again tho, the main reason for that is to gain the extra space for a specific player... but its a solid show of faith. The more I read about TJo, the more I see long term value. Hes a baller, like Warren.

And I have z e r o apprehensions about Ja being able to run the second unit.... as he is working his way to the first. No thanks to any perpetual second string vet PG on a 2 yr inflated deal, if choosing him over Morant.

Gambologne doing the same as we do here... going through the list and realizing its slim pickings for FA PFs. He's probably lurking about right now. Next week he'll talk up Jabari

So much depends on our draft position... 1 in 4 to get a top 2. Kind of sucks but its better than 11 other teams.

Johnson's a backup on a good team. And on a title contender he'd struggle to get minutes. 12m a year is crazy for that guy. If he were to come off the bench as some sort of combo guard, utility, whatever, I'd say 8-9 mil a year tops.

We need to up expectations as a fan base in PHX, it's been far too long.

[Frank Lee]

12 is a little high.... i was mistakenly factoring in him have 19 mill on the table for this yr.... if its only 12.5, then i'd think your numbers are ballparky. Either way, he is exactly the type of player you want and we need. Total teamer, and just a flat out hooper with no baggage. Its time we stop letting NBA talent leave the valley.

[BobbieL]

12 is a little high.... i was mistakenly factoring in him have 19 mill on the table for this yr.... if its only 12.5, then i'd think your numbers are ballparky. Either way, he is exactly the type of player you want and we need. Total teamer, and just a flat out hooper with no baggage. Its time we stop letting NBA talent leave the valley.

this is important - if his cash is 12.5 but his cap is 19.4 - then he might be amenable to a deal since he already has 37.5m in the bank so maybe he would be fine with say 38-40/4 as that would beup 27.5m in "new money"

but if he is truly owed 19.4m in cash - that does change the equation

I know this much - unless its for Jrue Holiday, maybe Kemba Walker, I want to keep the guy. He is a good player to have on the team . And like you said Frank, the team needs to start keeping its good players.

[Crives]

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[KLEON]

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Build where?

[LukasBMW]

It actually wouldn't surprise me to see AD resign a supermax extension in NO.

He HAS to realize that:

1. A supermax is a TON of money to give up
2. Lebron is on his way out and the Lakers are a mess
3. The supporting cast in NO is better then the one in LA (even including Lebron)
4. Reputation damage control - Both Rich Paul and AD can kind of redeem themselves if AD stays in NO.

At the very least, even if AD is hell bent on leaving, taking the super-max, pledging to stay in NO, and then requesting a trade in two years is a sure fire way to collect EVERY cent he can AND make it look like he tried to make NO work.

Also consider that the Pelicans have a lottery pick this year that they can package with some guys to go after another player via trade and things get interesting. Can they add someone to AD and Jrue? Blake maybe?

[Crives]

It actually wouldn't surprise me to see AD resign a supermax extension in NO.

He HAS to realize that:

1. A supermax is a TON of money to give up
2. Lebron is on his way out and the Lakers are a mess
3. The supporting cast in NO is better then the one in LA (even including Lebron)
4. Reputation damage control - Both Rich Paul and AD can kind of redeem themselves if AD stays in NO.

At the very least, even if AD is hell bent on leaving, taking the super-max, pledging to stay in NO, and then requesting a trade in two years is a sure fire way to collect EVERY cent he can AND make it look like he tried to make NO work.

Also consider that the Pelicans have a lottery pick this year that they can package with some guys to go after another player via trade and things get interesting. Can they add someone to AD and Jrue? Blake maybe?

Yeah, I mean he can still request trade after signing extension right? NO would get offers from every team in the league if he has 4+ years on his contract.

[darmani]

It's just posturing. AD is gone.

[Crives]

So Holiday might be off the table

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[WeekapaugGroove]

So Holiday might be off the table

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Not sure he ever was. Now circumstances can change quickly so we'll just have to see how it plays out.

I do think in general trades are more something you have to be opportunistic with than something you can count on as a team building strategy. They are the aspect of player aquisition a team has the least control over.

I really caution the 'trade the pick' crowd because nothing could materialize.

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[bwgood77]

So Holiday might be off the table

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Not sure he ever was. Now circumstances can change quickly so we'll just have to see how it plays out.

I do think in general trades are more something you have to be opportunistic with than something you can count on as a team building strategy. They are the aspect of player aquisition a team has the least control over.

I really caution the 'trade the pick' crowd because nothing could materialize.

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Yeah, I never say things like "if the pick is _______, trade it" as the proper course of action. What if the best offer was not all that great? We traded our 2004 pick (which would have been Iguodala if we kept it)..for a future pick that turned into the 21st pick (Nate Robinson) in 2005.

[jcsunsfan]

It's just posturing. AD is gone.

Could LeBron force his way to the Pels?

Pels first round pick for Lebron.

I think the Lakers would do that.
That would give the Pels a big three of Davis, LeBron, and Jrue. I am sure they could find some other pieces to make that work. Griffin can reprise his role as a Klutch Sports patsy.

[timetoshinebaby]

It's just posturing. AD is gone.

Could LeBron force his way to the Pels?

Pels first round pick for Lebron.

I think the Lakers would do that.
That would give the Pels a big three of Davis, LeBron, and Jrue. I am sure they could find some other pieces to make that work. Griffin can reprise his role as a Klutch Sports patsy.

The question becomes I think is LeBron and Klutch still happy with LA? Would they force their way out? I can't see LeBron wanting to do another season of 2018-19. Glorious way to end your career. If nothing big happens for LA in the off season, I can see a real possibility that he walks out. Probably best for all involved to be honest.

I can also see AD signing an extension with an off record agreement that they will trade him to a list of teams.