WCQF | P1 (2) Denver Nuggets vs (7) San Antonio Spurs

[The-Power]

Way to overreact, also, Embiid is absolutely horrific in the playoffs so far.

What are you talking about?

[Johnny Firpo]

Way to overreact, also, Embiid is absolutely horrific in the playoffs so far.

What are you talking about?

He was really bad in the first game. Also, Embiid this year hasn't exactly been a defensive juggernaut. He was clearly tanking on the defensive side of the ball, and had bad attitude in the season. Obviously, you don't have to agree with me, but when he said he hates being a floor spacer, and kind of put the blame on Butler, I thought it wasn't the greatest thing to do. I feel the whole Sixers situation is a situation waiting to implode. I question Simmons against great teams, Embiid's health, and Butler as a fit. And I don't think he'll wants to stay either, but I guess we'll see. I feel the Raptors will handle them relatively easily. Again, we'll see.

[Johnny Firpo]

"Just bad as a rim protector" ain't gonna cut it for a center. He is also bad when he steps up on pick n roll.

His impact says otherwise. Listen, I'm not saying he is great, but overall, as a defender, he is not bad at all, and a single matchup won't change this in my opinion. This is the team's first playoff series (for this team), and their core players outside of Jokic has been underwhelming all year, and continue to do so in the playoffs. It's not fair to throw Jokic under the bus when he is the reason they were/are good in the first place. And it's a joke that his haters jump on this as a proof that he is overrated. He is not, you guys just want justification for a preconceived opinion.

[The-Power]

Way to overreact, also, Embiid is absolutely horrific in the playoffs so far.

What are you talking about?

He was really bad in the first game. Also, Embiid this year hasn't exactly been a defensive juggernaut..

I mean, he has a 38 PER/8 BPM, put his defenders in serious foul trouble while getting to the line at will (leading to efficient volume scoring), 106.3 on-court DRTG and a positive on/off net rating despite not playing in the last win. Of course the sample size is tiny and I get that you want to put extra emphasis on the relatively poor first game; but to say that he has been ‘horrific’ thus far just seems completely oblivious to everything we can actually capture.

edit: but that's off-topic, so maybe a mod would want to move this post. But I'm not going to respond in this thread anymore fwiw.

[Bornstellar]

I don't really watch any Spurs but are Derrick White and Dejounte Murray going to be able to play next to each other next year?

White looks like a star in the making.

Yes, I think next season’s lineup should be:

Poetl
Aldridge
DeRozan
White
Murray

Derozan needs shooters around him. Unless Murray becomes one one of white/Murray will have to come off the bench

The only shooter we have now in the SL next to him is Forbes. I think we'll be just fine. White can hit the three and Murray has been committed to getting better at it, i watched him a lot in his workouts and the preseason before he got injured and his shot looked much better. The defensive potential of that lineup is too good, and there are plenty of shooters on the bench

[SK21209]

Yes, I think next season’s lineup should be:

Poetl
Aldridge
DeRozan
White
Murray

Derozan needs shooters around him. Unless Murray becomes one one of white/Murray will have to come off the bench

The only shooter we have now in the SL next to him is Forbes. I think we'll be just fine. White can hit the three and Murray has been committed to getting better at it, i watched him a lot in his workouts and the preseason before he got injured and his shot looked much better. The defensive potential of that lineup is too good, and there are plenty of shooters on the bench

\

Derozan should be moved for an actual 3, it's obvious there just isn't a future there for him with Murray, White, and potentially Walker too.

[Darth Celtic]

Remember when people thought Jokic was better than Embiid?

This analytics nonsense has killed people's ability to watch a game and analyze what's actually going on in the game.

Way to overreact, also, Embiid is absolutely horrific in the playoffs so far.

His PER is 40.

[Kabookalu]

"Just bad as a rim protector" ain't gonna cut it for a center. He is also bad when he steps up on pick n roll.

His impact says otherwise. Listen, I'm not saying he is great, but overall, as a defender, he is not bad at all, and a single matchup won't change this in my opinion. This is the team's first playoff series (for this team), and their core players outside of Jokic has been underwhelming all year, and continue to do so in the playoffs. It's not fair to throw Jokic under the bus when he is the reason they were/are good in the first place. And it's a joke that his haters jump on this as a proof that he is overrated. He is not, you guys just want justification for a preconceived opinion.

I like Jokic, but his defense in game 3 was a joke. Other than limiting Aldridge, he's the reason why White went off the way he did. It's one thing to not have the athleticism and length to contest drives, it's another to not contest them at all. So many of White's shots were open and free.

[Yank3525]

I picked Spurs in 6, Denver has all the trappings of a early exit and Jokic's defense is as bad as I thought it would be in the playoffs, zero rim protection and if he's caught on a guard he's dead meat.

I had DEN in 7 initially, since despite their inexperience and coaching disadvantage, they had the best player

But it looks like he's getting cooked out there by SA guards. Didn't think it would be this bad

I argued with these Denver fans and stat nerds all season about him and how he could be targeted, the Rockets gave the blueprint on him the last 2 seasons just get him involved with as many high screens as possible and he's a traffic cone, you saw it tonight with how much White was attacking the rim. Jokic is lucky the Spurs don't have Murray right now, he'd be unplayable if he had to go against DeJounte, DeMar and Derrick for 48 mins.

He's going to have to lose weight and get his body in shape, being built like a truck driver is fine for the regular season when the analytic lovers are waxing poetic about how your CIA, FBI, NRA, FICO and other worthless acronym stats, but in the playoffs that wont cut it when the opposing coach just decides he's going to make you play in space & rotate because you're about 30lbs too heavy.

Yup and to make matters worse he doesn't offset the defensive inefficiencies by being an aggressive scorer. He is still young, but I feel Jokic is likely better suited as the second guy on a contending team.

[Bornstellar]

Derozan needs shooters around him. Unless Murray becomes one one of white/Murray will have to come off the bench

The only shooter we have now in the SL next to him is Forbes. I think we'll be just fine. White can hit the three and Murray has been committed to getting better at it, i watched him a lot in his workouts and the preseason before he got injured and his shot looked much better. The defensive potential of that lineup is too good, and there are plenty of shooters on the bench

\

Derozan should be moved for an actual 3, it's obvious there just isn't a future there for him with Murray, White, and potentially Walker too.

Completely agree, but we know Pop isnt going to do that unfortunately unless Derozan requests a trade

[SK21209]

The only shooter we have now in the SL next to him is Forbes. I think we'll be just fine. White can hit the three and Murray has been committed to getting better at it, i watched him a lot in his workouts and the preseason before he got injured and his shot looked much better. The defensive potential of that lineup is too good, and there are plenty of shooters on the bench

\

Derozan should be moved for an actual 3, it's obvious there just isn't a future there for him with Murray, White, and potentially Walker too.

Completely agree, but we know Pop isnt going to do that unfortunately unless Derozan requests a trade

No probably not, which really is unfortunate because some team that strikes out in free agency or that's desperate to keep their own free agent might have been willing enough to trade a decent young player for him.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Remember when people thought Jokic was better than Embiid?

This analytics nonsense has killed people's ability to watch a game and analyze what's actually going on in the game.

Jokic is awful defensively, and that disqualifies him from being better than Embiid.

No he is not. He is just bad as a rim protector. That's not the whole picture. When he played excellent defense in game 1 and game 2, you guys were nowhere to be found. It's pathetic.

You're brushing off his rim protection being bad like it's not the main reason the Spurs guards are having a layup line at the rim, there's no fear for any of them when they get into the lane. He's also terrible in space, he didn't play excellent defense in games 1 and 2, the Nuggets have trailed by double digits in all 3 games in large part because the Spurs are exposing Jokic's inability to guard the rim or defend multiple rotations. He's doing a decent job on Aldridge but having a center that can play man to man defense but is a terrible team defender & rim protector is why they're down 2-1 and realistically should be down 3-0, it's also why they lost games at the end of the season to avoid the Rockets in the next round.

White and DeMar have made 2 threes in the series, they are feasting at the rim....

[510TWSS]

From listening to the post game pods seems like Murray is getting cooked defensively. Couldn’t contain White.

Doesn’t bode well if they make it past as Hou has a better back court. I’d fear Harden/CP avg 65+ combined that series.

Denver must win game 4

[bb22]

Running the offense through a center like Jokic and relying on him as your main guy just isn’t taking you anywhere near the finals in today’s NBA... unless you put a guy like Giannis as your 5.
Nevertheless, Denver has talented and deep backcourt/wings that play a massive part in this team’s success. And it’s showing mightily when they are struggling.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Running the offense through a center like Jokic and relying on him as your main guy just isn’t taking you anywhere near the finals in today’s NBA... unless you put a guy like Giannis as your 5.
Nevertheless, Denver has talented and deep backcourt/wings that play a massive part in this team’s success. And it’s showing mightily when they are struggling.

Hot take central up in here.
Jokic is 24 and most of the roster is very green. But because they aren't winning the championship in their very first appearance in the playoffs that means they can never win it down the road?

[CIN-C-STAR]

From listening to the post game pods seems like Murray is getting cooked defensively. Couldn’t contain White.

Doesn’t bode well if they make it past as Hou has a better back court. I’d fear Harden/CP avg 65+ combined that series.

Denver must win game 4

I agree they need to win game 4, but they aren't playing Houston in the next round regardless because they aren't on the same side of the Western Conference bracket.
It would be Portland or OKC.

[LloydFree]

Jokic is awful defensively, and that disqualifies him from being better than Embiid.

No he is not. He is just bad as a rim protector. That's not the whole picture. When he played excellent defense in game 1 and game 2, you guys were nowhere to be found. It's pathetic.

"Just bad as a rim protector" ain't gonna cut it for a center. He is also bad when he steps up on pick n roll.

Jokic is little more than a turnstile. His team is better on defense when he isn't on the court. People need to stop embarrassing that man by mentioning him in the same breath as Embiid.

[hype_2004]

**** Spurs might win the next 2 unless Joker boy plays sum D against Aldridge, and that ain't gonna happen.

[Kabookalu]

**** Spurs might win the next 2 unless Joker boy plays sum D against Aldridge, and that ain't gonna happen.

That's the thing, Jokic has been playing good defense on Aldridge, who's only scoring 19ppg on .452TS%. Rudy Gay is also a no show with 10ppg on .501TS% shooting. The ones killing the Nuggets are DeMar DeRozan (25ppg on .570TS%) and Derrick White (23ppg on .740TS%!!!)

[The High Cyde]

How does a big man's rim protection get so bad? Like how does that work? Just lift your arms man. It's not just with Jokic. Love, Kanter, all those other guys. Are they incapable of lifting their arms? Wtf?!

It's actually very taxing for a big man to constantly have his arms in good defensive stances. I think it was Coach Daniel that mentioned this in one of his videos (but not 100% sure). An example would probably be Andre Drummond, who never had his arms up to contest, it just tires out players faster.