ECQF | P2 (2) Toronto Raptors vs (7) Orlando Magic

[cwas2882]

I honestly think it's karma somewhat. Championship level IRL must be balanced by subpar Sports life. Which leads to frustration for some, thinking why can't your sports expectations meet your lifestyle expectations.

I root for Florida teams so I can feel the same disappointment that my parents feel toward me

You still an MVP to us though, fam

[orlando_joe]

I think refs are not calling enough fouls on raptors they foul every play ..they may miss 5 calls a game on magic ..but should be magic shooting 20 more ft a game ..all raptors do is foul...great missed travel call also

[basketball royalty]

I think refs are not calling enough fouls on raptors they foul every play ..they may miss 5 calls a game on magic ..but should be magic shooting 20 more ft a game ..all raptors do is foul...great missed travel call also

Lol. They missed that travel because they were so used to swallowing the whistle whenever Kawhi would drive.

[orlando_joe]

I think refs are not calling enough fouls on raptors they foul every play ..they may miss 5 calls a game on magic ..but should be magic shooting 20 more ft a game ..all raptors do is foul...great missed travel call also

Lol. They missed that travel because they were so used to swallowing the whistle whenever Kawhi would drive.

you mean when he would hook Gordon to get by him...yea I know they sure did swallow whistle

[Kurtz]

Yep. The NBA hates Toronto. They should just give up now, since they're just going to get screwed over best round. Or the round after that. Why even try to advance?

Hell, everyone hates Canada. What's there point of even living up there? Just give up. Move to the US. It's the only way anyone will care about or love you.

I'm pretty sure I heard the "refs, you suck" chant in Orlando while they held a double digit FTA advantage Of course we're the only ones that complain, though.

Orlando fans saw the same thing Raptors fans saw and were trying to be supportive.

Well done, that was rather hilarious.

In all honesty, this might be more of a Tony Brothers issue than a refs issue. The NBA assigns Brothers to games where they need the home team to win (651% home winning percentage when he refs, 67% in the playoffs), and on top of that, Brothers has had a long-standing grudge against the Raptors (and vice-versa).

I expect that we'll see this series be reffed a lot more evenly the rest of the way.

[Ramed Nazored]

Yep. The NBA hates Toronto. They should just give up now, since they're just going to get screwed over next round. Or the round after that. Why even try to advance?

Hell, everyone hates Canada. What's there point of even living up there? Just give up. Move to the US. It's the only way anyone will care about or love you.

Why not actually engage with the boatloads of data highlighting the silly disparity in FT attempts and mount a counter argument?

Are you capable?

[cwas2882]

Yep. The NBA hates Toronto. They should just give up now, since they're just going to get screwed over next round. Or the round after that. Why even try to advance?

Hell, everyone hates Canada. What's there point of even living up there? Just give up. Move to the US. It's the only way anyone will care about or love you.

Why not actually engage with the boatloads of data highlighting the silly disparity in FT attempts and mount a counter argument?

Are you capable?

Capable? Yes, definitely.
Do I have the time right now? Not really.

Do I think there's credible enough data from three current games to reject the a priori assumption that the officiating is unbiased? Probably not.

[VFX]

The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

Copied and pasted from the Raptors board...

Orlando (regular season followed by playoffs)
Gordon: 3.2 FTA, 2.2 PF | 3.0 FTA, 3.0 PF (-0.2 FTA, +0.8 PF)
Vucevic: 2.8 FTA, 2.0 PF | 4.0 FTA, 1.7 PF (+1.2 FTA, -0.2 PF)
Augustin: 2.6 FTA, 1.4 PF | 3.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+1.1 FTA, +0.3 PF)
Fournier: 2.1 FTA, 2.8 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-0.8 FTA, -0.1 PF)
MCW: 1.9 FTA, 1.7 PF | 0.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-1.6 FTA, +1.0 PF)
Isaac: 1.8 FTA, 1.9 PF | 2.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+0.9 FTA, -0.2 PF)
Ross: 1.8 FTA, 1.5 PF | 4.3 FTA, 1.7 PF (+2.5 FTA, +0.2 PF)
Birch: 1.7 FTA, 1.4 PF | 1.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+0.0 FTA, +0.3 PF)
Iwundu: 1.5 FTA, 1.8 PF | 1.3 FTA, 1.3 PF (-0.2 FTA, -0.5 PF)


Toronto (regular season followed by playoffs)
Leonard: 7.1 FTA, 1.5 PF | 4.3 FTA, 3.0 PF (-2.8 FTA, +1.5 PF)
Siakam: 3.8 FTA, 3.0 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-2.5 FTA, -0.3 PF)
Gasol: 3.2 FTA, 2.7 PF | 0.7 FTA, 2.3 PF (-2.5 FTA, -0.4 PF)
Lowry: 3.0 FTA, 2.6 PF | 3.0 FTA, 3.7 PF (+0.0 FTA, +1.1 PF)
Ibaka: 2.4 FTA, 2.9 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.0 PF (-1.1 FTA, -0.9 PF)
FVV: 1.8 FTA, 1.7 PF | 0.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (-1.1 FTA, +0.0 PF)
Powell: 1.3 FTA, 1.6 PF | 0.7 FTA, 1.3 PF (-0.6 FTA, -0.3 PF)
Green: 0.6 FTA, 2.1 PF | 0.7 FTA, 3.0 PF (+0.1 FTA, +0.9 PF)

Almost every rotation player for Toronto is seeing a substantial drop in FTA (and Kawhi, Siakam and Gasol are all at least 2.5 FTA/game lower) while Orlando's main rotation players are generally getting to the line at the same rate with a noticeable increase for Ross (2.5 more FTA), Vucevic (1.2 more FTA) and Augustin (1.1 more FTA). Similarly, some of Toronto's highest IQ players and best defenders are getting called for more PFs (Kawhi 1.5 more PF, Lowry 1.1 more PF, Green 0.9 more PF) while the only noteworthy increases for Orlando are Gordon (0.8 more PF) - who has been guarding Kawhi Leonard - and MCW (1.0 more PF) - who has seen a ~33% increase in his minutes.

I just don't understand how a team like Orlando - a very good but young and inexperienced defensive team - is getting the benefit of the doubt on the defensive end while a team like Toronto - a very good and experienced defensive team - is getting called for touch fouls.

Another way of looking at this is that Orlando is one of the worst teams in the NBA at getting to the line during the regular season. Most Magic fans know that. Toronto has been extremely active defensively in limiting Vuc’s touches inside, which would attribute to more calls.

So yeah, Orlando is going to be getting to the line more often than they usually would, either because of a playoff atmosphere or Toronto’s defense. Either way, it’s working out well for Toronto so I don’t really see the issue here.

[Troubadour]

I don't think there is some grand conspiracy against the Raptors. That said, here are some stats

Of the sixteen playoff teams, the Raptors are:
16th in percentage of points scored from FT line at 11%. 1st place is at 22.4%
16th in FTA Rate at 0.156. 1st place is at 0.355.

Compare that to the regular season
19th in percentage of points scored from FT line at 15.4%. 1st place is at 19.6%
21st in FTA at 0.247. 1st place is at 0.326

Couple of takeaways:
1) Just as many fouls are called in the playoffs. The idea that refs swallow their whistle in the playoffs is a myth
2) The Raptors are the most disadvantaged relative to their regular season performance.

Compared to their regular season percentage of points coming from FTA, the Raptors are -4.4% points in the playoffs. The OKC Thunder, in contrast, are +6.8% points. The Magic are +5.0% points and the Warriors are +4.9% points.

The real test will come assuming both the Raptors and Sixers advance. Nets are getting 4.8% points more production from FTA than the regular season. They also drive more than any team in the playoffs. Raptors, sharing a similar profile in offense, should expect to at least their regular season rate from the free throw line.

[SwaggyB]

I don't think there is some grand conspiracy against the Raptors. That said, here are some stats

Of the sixteen playoff teams, the Raptors are:
16th in percentage of points scored from FT line at 11%. 1st place is at 22.4%
16th in FTA Rate at 0.156. 1st place is at 0.355.

Compare that to the regular season
19th in percentage of points scored from FT line at 15.4%. 1st place is at 19.6%
21st in FTA at 0.247. 1st place is at 0.326

Couple of takeaways:
1) Just as many fouls are called in the playoffs. The idea that refs swallow their whistle in the playoffs is a myth
2) The Raptors are the most disadvantaged relative to their regular season performance.

Compared to their regular season percentage of points coming from FTA, the Raptors are -4.4% points in the playoffs. The OKC Thunder, in contrast, are +6.8% points. The Magic are +5.0% points and the Warriors are +4.9% points.

The real test will come assuming both the Raptors and Sixers advance. Nets are getting 4.8% points more production from FTA than the regular season. They also drive more than any team in the playoffs. Raptors, sharing a similar profile in offense, should expect to at least their regular season rate from the free throw line.

You aren't accounting for the fact that Orlando plays defense not to foul.. So, that negates all this.

[Par36]

I think refs are not calling enough fouls on raptors they foul every play ..they may miss 5 calls a game on magic ..but should be magic shooting 20 more ft a game ..all raptors do is foul...great missed travel call also

Green font right? K..

[-TheDocOfDenial]

Coach Clifford has emphasized that Magic players do not foul so the raptors are not shooting FTs. Why have other coaches not done the same? Maybe it will work against Harden?

[p0peye]

The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

Copied and pasted from the Raptors board...

Orlando (regular season followed by playoffs)
Gordon: 3.2 FTA, 2.2 PF | 3.0 FTA, 3.0 PF (-0.2 FTA, +0.8 PF)
Vucevic: 2.8 FTA, 2.0 PF | 4.0 FTA, 1.7 PF (+1.2 FTA, -0.2 PF)
Augustin: 2.6 FTA, 1.4 PF | 3.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+1.1 FTA, +0.3 PF)
Fournier: 2.1 FTA, 2.8 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-0.8 FTA, -0.1 PF)
MCW: 1.9 FTA, 1.7 PF | 0.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-1.6 FTA, +1.0 PF)
Isaac: 1.8 FTA, 1.9 PF | 2.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+0.9 FTA, -0.2 PF)
Ross: 1.8 FTA, 1.5 PF | 4.3 FTA, 1.7 PF (+2.5 FTA, +0.2 PF)
Birch: 1.7 FTA, 1.4 PF | 1.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+0.0 FTA, +0.3 PF)
Iwundu: 1.5 FTA, 1.8 PF | 1.3 FTA, 1.3 PF (-0.2 FTA, -0.5 PF)


Toronto (regular season followed by playoffs)
Leonard: 7.1 FTA, 1.5 PF | 4.3 FTA, 3.0 PF (-2.8 FTA, +1.5 PF)
Siakam: 3.8 FTA, 3.0 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-2.5 FTA, -0.3 PF)
Gasol: 3.2 FTA, 2.7 PF | 0.7 FTA, 2.3 PF (-2.5 FTA, -0.4 PF)
Lowry: 3.0 FTA, 2.6 PF | 3.0 FTA, 3.7 PF (+0.0 FTA, +1.1 PF)
Ibaka: 2.4 FTA, 2.9 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.0 PF (-1.1 FTA, -0.9 PF)
FVV: 1.8 FTA, 1.7 PF | 0.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (-1.1 FTA, +0.0 PF)
Powell: 1.3 FTA, 1.6 PF | 0.7 FTA, 1.3 PF (-0.6 FTA, -0.3 PF)
Green: 0.6 FTA, 2.1 PF | 0.7 FTA, 3.0 PF (+0.1 FTA, +0.9 PF)

Almost every rotation player for Toronto is seeing a substantial drop in FTA (and Kawhi, Siakam and Gasol are all at least 2.5 FTA/game lower) while Orlando's main rotation players are generally getting to the line at the same rate with a noticeable increase for Ross (2.5 more FTA), Vucevic (1.2 more FTA) and Augustin (1.1 more FTA). Similarly, some of Toronto's highest IQ players and best defenders are getting called for more PFs (Kawhi 1.5 more PF, Lowry 1.1 more PF, Green 0.9 more PF) while the only noteworthy increases for Orlando are Gordon (0.8 more PF) - who has been guarding Kawhi Leonard - and MCW (1.0 more PF) - who has seen a ~33% increase in his minutes.

I just don't understand how a team like Orlando - a very good but young and inexperienced defensive team - is getting the benefit of the doubt on the defensive end while a team like Toronto - a very good and experienced defensive team - is getting called for touch fouls.

Another way of looking at this is that Orlando is one of the worst teams in the NBA at getting to the line during the regular season. Most Magic fans know that. Toronto has been extremely active defensively in limiting Vuc’s touches inside, which would attribute to more calls.

So yeah, Orlando is going to be getting to the line more often than they usually would, either because of a playoff atmosphere or Toronto’s defense. Either way, it’s working out well for Toronto so I don’t really see the issue here.

So, as a team Magic cumulatively makes 1.6 more PFs in playoffs than in regular season. Where's the issue? Cliff generally tries to limit turnovers and fouls, with maximum efforts on defensive rebounding. It is the staple of his defensive strategy.

Raps are winning, why such need to play a victim here?

[pingpongrac]

Copied and pasted from the Raptors board...

Orlando (regular season followed by playoffs)
Gordon: 3.2 FTA, 2.2 PF | 3.0 FTA, 3.0 PF (-0.2 FTA, +0.8 PF)
Vucevic: 2.8 FTA, 2.0 PF | 4.0 FTA, 1.7 PF (+1.2 FTA, -0.2 PF)
Augustin: 2.6 FTA, 1.4 PF | 3.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+1.1 FTA, +0.3 PF)
Fournier: 2.1 FTA, 2.8 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-0.8 FTA, -0.1 PF)
MCW: 1.9 FTA, 1.7 PF | 0.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-1.6 FTA, +1.0 PF)
Isaac: 1.8 FTA, 1.9 PF | 2.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+0.9 FTA, -0.2 PF)
Ross: 1.8 FTA, 1.5 PF | 4.3 FTA, 1.7 PF (+2.5 FTA, +0.2 PF)
Birch: 1.7 FTA, 1.4 PF | 1.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+0.0 FTA, +0.3 PF)
Iwundu: 1.5 FTA, 1.8 PF | 1.3 FTA, 1.3 PF (-0.2 FTA, -0.5 PF)


Toronto (regular season followed by playoffs)
Leonard: 7.1 FTA, 1.5 PF | 4.3 FTA, 3.0 PF (-2.8 FTA, +1.5 PF)
Siakam: 3.8 FTA, 3.0 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-2.5 FTA, -0.3 PF)
Gasol: 3.2 FTA, 2.7 PF | 0.7 FTA, 2.3 PF (-2.5 FTA, -0.4 PF)
Lowry: 3.0 FTA, 2.6 PF | 3.0 FTA, 3.7 PF (+0.0 FTA, +1.1 PF)
Ibaka: 2.4 FTA, 2.9 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.0 PF (-1.1 FTA, -0.9 PF)
FVV: 1.8 FTA, 1.7 PF | 0.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (-1.1 FTA, +0.0 PF)
Powell: 1.3 FTA, 1.6 PF | 0.7 FTA, 1.3 PF (-0.6 FTA, -0.3 PF)
Green: 0.6 FTA, 2.1 PF | 0.7 FTA, 3.0 PF (+0.1 FTA, +0.9 PF)

Almost every rotation player for Toronto is seeing a substantial drop in FTA (and Kawhi, Siakam and Gasol are all at least 2.5 FTA/game lower) while Orlando's main rotation players are generally getting to the line at the same rate with a noticeable increase for Ross (2.5 more FTA), Vucevic (1.2 more FTA) and Augustin (1.1 more FTA). Similarly, some of Toronto's highest IQ players and best defenders are getting called for more PFs (Kawhi 1.5 more PF, Lowry 1.1 more PF, Green 0.9 more PF) while the only noteworthy increases for Orlando are Gordon (0.8 more PF) - who has been guarding Kawhi Leonard - and MCW (1.0 more PF) - who has seen a ~33% increase in his minutes.

I just don't understand how a team like Orlando - a very good but young and inexperienced defensive team - is getting the benefit of the doubt on the defensive end while a team like Toronto - a very good and experienced defensive team - is getting called for touch fouls.

Another way of looking at this is that Orlando is one of the worst teams in the NBA at getting to the line during the regular season. Most Magic fans know that. Toronto has been extremely active defensively in limiting Vuc’s touches inside, which would attribute to more calls.

So yeah, Orlando is going to be getting to the line more often than they usually would, either because of a playoff atmosphere or Toronto’s defense. Either way, it’s working out well for Toronto so I don’t really see the issue here.

So, as a team Magic cumulatively makes 1.6 more PFs in playoffs than in regular season. Where's the issue? Cliff generally tries to limit turnovers and fouls, with maximum efforts on defensive rebounding. It is the staple of his defensive strategy.

Raps are winning, why such need to play a victim here?

It doesn't matter that Toronto is winning. It's actually better to bring up the massive FT discrepancy now so it's not seen as an excuse for losing. However, Orlando had 6 more FTA in game 1, 7 more FTA in game 2 and 13 more FTA in game 3, and we're seeing a gross trend in this series.

Orlando averaged 19.2 FTA (30th) and drew 18.7 PF/game (tied for 30th) in the season; so far they've averaged 22.3 FTA and drew 21.7 PF/game. Orlando's opponents averaged 20.9 FTA (5th) and drew 18.6 PF (2nd) against them in the season.

Toronto averaged 22.0 FTA (21st) and drew 20.5 PF/game (19th) in the season; so far they've averaged 13.7 FTA and drew 18.0 PF/game. Toronto's opponents averaged 22.3 FTA (12th) and drew 21.0 PF/game (16th).

So all of Orlando's numbers are better (FTA = +3.1, PF = -0.6, OPP FTA = -7.2, OPP PF = +3.0) while all of Toronto's numbers are worse (FTA = -7.3, PF = +0.7, OPP FTA = +0.0, OPP PF = -2.5).

It may not seem like a noteworthy difference when just looking at PFs, but when you take into account the above stats, it's very clear Toronto has been getting the short end of the stick. Orlando was/is a disciplined defensive team, but they still allowed their opponents to average ~21 FTA for the season. Toronto's opponents only averaged 1.4 more FTA than Orlando's opponents and Toronto themselves averaged 2.8 more FTA than Orlando, but somehow we still find ourselves looking at a 67-41 FTA advantage in favour of Orlando. All things considered, the difference should not be anywhere close to that massive, especially when you take into account things like HCA and "superstar whistles," which everyone claims to be real things.

[CantStopTheRock]

I don't enjoy blaming refs for losses, it's on the team to win. But this discrepancy is questionable

Jesus...thats bad. I hope the Raptors organization send the league office "tape" just like the Warriors did with Beverly.

Both Embiid and George post up a ton, this is a little skewed.

Paul George 2.3 post ups / 59.7 touches - ZERO FGA from a post up this playoffs - so every attempt has resulted in a foul call
Siakam 2.3 post ups / 68.7 touches
Kawhi 3.3 post ups / 61 tocuhes

So yeah no George isn't posting up as much as either of them by themselves, let alone combined

They are also ahead of george in paint touches and drives by themselves as well.

Hell 48.3% of Georges shots have been 3 PT

[The Real Dalic]

Next time Magic only have 8 FTAs and the other team has 23 FTAs make sure you don't complain Hopefully that happens in game 4 then we'll see which fanbase will be complaining.

You do remember that 41-9 ft regular season game a couple of years ago, right? And Raptors fans still had the audacity to say you guys got screwed on a couple more calls there and should've had more free throws than that.

Raptors fans have this insecurity about being the only Canadian Basketball team and think you guys get screwed over because you're north of the border. It's not true. Since Lowry and DeRozan, you guys have actually getting more of the benefit of the whistle than not. It's why you guys are always among the top every season. Meanwhile, the Magic have always been at the bottom even with players like Dipo and Harris on the roster.

Also, if the Magic lost a free throw battle that badly, and won, I would take the win and not cry about it. If the Magic had that and lost, I wouldn't care if the refs officiated fairly. If it was unfair (unlike what's going on with the Raps,) I would definitely call it out though. Just because Raptors fans fall for Lowry's flops, doesn't mean the refs should.

All the numbers point to the Raptors being screwed by the refs in this series..but hey keep living in the past and bringing up **** from years ago that has nothing to do with this series.

Like I said, hopefully in game 4 the Raptors have double or triple the amount of FTAs so we can see which fanbase will be the one complaining. Hopefully Kawhi & Siakam start flopping like Lowry because that seems to be the only way to get the refs to use their **** whistle.

The reason I bring up years ago is because some Raptors fans have a history and tendency to cry about the refs even in wins where they were heavily favored by the refs.

[orlando_joe]

Another way of looking at this is that Orlando is one of the worst teams in the NBA at getting to the line during the regular season. Most Magic fans know that. Toronto has been extremely active defensively in limiting Vuc’s touches inside, which would attribute to more calls.

So yeah, Orlando is going to be getting to the line more often than they usually would, either because of a playoff atmosphere or Toronto’s defense. Either way, it’s working out well for Toronto so I don’t really see the issue here.

So, as a team Magic cumulatively makes 1.6 more PFs in playoffs than in regular season. Where's the issue? Cliff generally tries to limit turnovers and fouls, with maximum efforts on defensive rebounding. It is the staple of his defensive strategy.

Raps are winning, why such need to play a victim here?

It doesn't matter that Toronto is winning. It's actually better to bring up the massive FT discrepancy now so it's not seen as an excuse for losing. However, Orlando had 6 more FTA in game 1, 7 more FTA in game 2 and 13 more FTA in game 3, and we're seeing a gross trend in this series.

Orlando averaged 19.2 FTA (30th) and drew 18.7 PF/game (tied for 30th) in the season; so far they've averaged 22.3 FTA and drew 21.7 PF/game. Orlando's opponents averaged 20.9 FTA (5th) and drew 18.6 PF (2nd) against them in the season.

Toronto averaged 22.0 FTA (21st) and drew 20.5 PF/game (19th) in the season; so far they've averaged 13.7 FTA and drew 18.0 PF/game. Toronto's opponents averaged 22.3 FTA (12th) and drew 21.0 PF/game (16th).

So all of Orlando's numbers are better (FTA = +3.1, PF = -0.6, OPP FTA = -7.2, OPP PF = +3.0) while all of Toronto's numbers are worse (FTA = -7.3, PF = +0.7, OPP FTA = +0.0, OPP PF = -2.5).

It may not seem like a noteworthy difference when just looking at PFs, but when you take into account the above stats, it's very clear Toronto has been getting the short end of the stick. Orlando was/is a disciplined defensive team, but they still allowed their opponents to average ~21 FTA for the season. Toronto's opponents only averaged 1.4 more FTA than Orlando's opponents and Toronto themselves averaged 2.8 more FTA than Orlando, but somehow we still find ourselves looking at a 67-41 FTA advantage in favour of Orlando. All things considered, the difference should not be anywhere close to that massive, especially when you take into account things like HCA and "superstar whistles," which everyone claims to be real things.

bla,bla,bla...I bet in next rd raptors get ton of calls...because they will be getting fouled!! ...lol
also raptors not getting to line in last 2 min...because magic not putting them on line to extend the game..

[The Real Dalic]

Next time Magic only have 8 FTAs and the other team has 23 FTAs make sure you don't complain Hopefully that happens in game 4 then we'll see which fanbase will be complaining.

You do remember that 41-9 ft regular season game a couple of years ago, right? And Raptors fans still had the audacity to say you guys got screwed on a couple more calls there and should've had more free throws than that. Raptors fans have this insecurity about being the only Canadian Basketball team and think you guys get screwed over because you're north of the border. It's not true. Since Lowry and DeRozan, you guys have actually getting more of the benefit of the whistle than not. It's why you guys are always among the top every season. Meanwhile, the Magic have always been at the bottom even with players like Dipo and Harris on the roster.

Some of the "insecurity" you are referring to is unwarranted and is indeed lame. Nevertheless, some of it likely comes from theories that the NBA prefers 7 game series and the Canadian broadcasts having a negative effect on ratings. See also: the testimony of Tim Donaghy, SAC v. LAL. If it really is NBE and not NBA, the conspiracy would call for the mandate being: "Let's at least get a couple extra games out of this series", ORL is up-and-coming, TOR will kill our ratings game later in the playoffs, etc.

Your point about "we play defense not to foul" is actually a good point.

Reg. season ORL vs TOR FPG: 17
Playoffs ORL vs TOR FPG: 18
Reg. season ORL FPG: 18.6 (2nd only to SAS, TOR is 17th with 21)

Still, other stats + eye-test say the officiating has not been very favourable to Toronto.

This is the most fair and objective post here. I didn't watch game 3 unfortunately. But from the first 2 games, I could see a little bit about what you're talking about, but as a Magic fan, we also got into the penalty early on some ticky tack calls in game 1, so I also feel the Magic got some inconsistent calls as well.

As for Game 2, for some reason, when the team that's beating their opponent down by 30 or so the refs want to just go home so they don't call as many fouls.

I do agree there is a corrupt and entertainment first aspect in the NBA, but I really don't think that they care enough about this first round to try to help Orlando out. In fact, I would think they would love to get the first round over with quickly to get to the real playoffs in the second round in both conferences.

[The Real Dalic]

The team that's up 2-1, complaining non-stop about officials. Lol Especially since they still don't understand that we play defense not to foul. Magic were the best at it all season. But who cares because "the ReFz hate Canada ya'll!"

Copied and pasted from the Raptors board...

Orlando (regular season followed by playoffs)
Gordon: 3.2 FTA, 2.2 PF | 3.0 FTA, 3.0 PF (-0.2 FTA, +0.8 PF)
Vucevic: 2.8 FTA, 2.0 PF | 4.0 FTA, 1.7 PF (+1.2 FTA, -0.2 PF)
Augustin: 2.6 FTA, 1.4 PF | 3.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+1.1 FTA, +0.3 PF)
Fournier: 2.1 FTA, 2.8 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-0.8 FTA, -0.1 PF)
MCW: 1.9 FTA, 1.7 PF | 0.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-1.6 FTA, +1.0 PF)
Isaac: 1.8 FTA, 1.9 PF | 2.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+0.9 FTA, -0.2 PF)
Ross: 1.8 FTA, 1.5 PF | 4.3 FTA, 1.7 PF (+2.5 FTA, +0.2 PF)
Birch: 1.7 FTA, 1.4 PF | 1.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (+0.0 FTA, +0.3 PF)
Iwundu: 1.5 FTA, 1.8 PF | 1.3 FTA, 1.3 PF (-0.2 FTA, -0.5 PF)


Toronto (regular season followed by playoffs)
Leonard: 7.1 FTA, 1.5 PF | 4.3 FTA, 3.0 PF (-2.8 FTA, +1.5 PF)
Siakam: 3.8 FTA, 3.0 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.7 PF (-2.5 FTA, -0.3 PF)
Gasol: 3.2 FTA, 2.7 PF | 0.7 FTA, 2.3 PF (-2.5 FTA, -0.4 PF)
Lowry: 3.0 FTA, 2.6 PF | 3.0 FTA, 3.7 PF (+0.0 FTA, +1.1 PF)
Ibaka: 2.4 FTA, 2.9 PF | 1.3 FTA, 2.0 PF (-1.1 FTA, -0.9 PF)
FVV: 1.8 FTA, 1.7 PF | 0.7 FTA, 1.7 PF (-1.1 FTA, +0.0 PF)
Powell: 1.3 FTA, 1.6 PF | 0.7 FTA, 1.3 PF (-0.6 FTA, -0.3 PF)
Green: 0.6 FTA, 2.1 PF | 0.7 FTA, 3.0 PF (+0.1 FTA, +0.9 PF)

Almost every rotation player for Toronto is seeing a substantial drop in FTA (and Kawhi, Siakam and Gasol are all at least 2.5 FTA/game lower) while Orlando's main rotation players are generally getting to the line at the same rate with a noticeable increase for Ross (2.5 more FTA), Vucevic (1.2 more FTA) and Augustin (1.1 more FTA). Similarly, some of Toronto's highest IQ players and best defenders are getting called for more PFs (Kawhi 1.5 more PF, Lowry 1.1 more PF, Green 0.9 more PF) while the only noteworthy increases for Orlando are Gordon (0.8 more PF) - who has been guarding Kawhi Leonard - and MCW (1.0 more PF) - who has seen a ~33% increase in his minutes.

I just don't understand how a team like Orlando - a very good but young and inexperienced defensive team - is getting the benefit of the doubt on the defensive end while a team like Toronto - a very good and experienced defensive team - is getting called for touch fouls.

Because our defense is just that good? People continue to sleep on this team. Just because you guys haven't accepted that we've had the best defense in the league for over 2 months now, but it's the truth. We're not only elite, we're the BEST defensive team. We're so good, that if we had any kind of scorer, I'd be confident we could win a couple of rounds. The Raptors will win because they have the better overall talent, and a true superstar. But this team is for real on defense right now. Just need to get more experienced on the offensive side of the ball.

[pingpongrac]

So, as a team Magic cumulatively makes 1.6 more PFs in playoffs than in regular season. Where's the issue? Cliff generally tries to limit turnovers and fouls, with maximum efforts on defensive rebounding. It is the staple of his defensive strategy.

Raps are winning, why such need to play a victim here?

It doesn't matter that Toronto is winning. It's actually better to bring up the massive FT discrepancy now so it's not seen as an excuse for losing. However, Orlando had 6 more FTA in game 1, 7 more FTA in game 2 and 13 more FTA in game 3, and we're seeing a gross trend in this series.

Orlando averaged 19.2 FTA (30th) and drew 18.7 PF/game (tied for 30th) in the season; so far they've averaged 22.3 FTA and drew 21.7 PF/game. Orlando's opponents averaged 20.9 FTA (5th) and drew 18.6 PF (2nd) against them in the season.

Toronto averaged 22.0 FTA (21st) and drew 20.5 PF/game (19th) in the season; so far they've averaged 13.7 FTA and drew 18.0 PF/game. Toronto's opponents averaged 22.3 FTA (12th) and drew 21.0 PF/game (16th).

So all of Orlando's numbers are better (FTA = +3.1, PF = -0.6, OPP FTA = -7.2, OPP PF = +3.0) while all of Toronto's numbers are worse (FTA = -7.3, PF = +0.7, OPP FTA = +0.0, OPP PF = -2.5).

It may not seem like a noteworthy difference when just looking at PFs, but when you take into account the above stats, it's very clear Toronto has been getting the short end of the stick. Orlando was/is a disciplined defensive team, but they still allowed their opponents to average ~21 FTA for the season. Toronto's opponents only averaged 1.4 more FTA than Orlando's opponents and Toronto themselves averaged 2.8 more FTA than Orlando, but somehow we still find ourselves looking at a 67-41 FTA advantage in favour of Orlando. All things considered, the difference should not be anywhere close to that massive, especially when you take into account things like HCA and "superstar whistles," which everyone claims to be real things.

bla,bla,bla...I bet in next rd raptors get ton of calls...because they will be getting fouled!! ...lol
also raptors not getting to line in last 2 min...because magic not putting them on line to extend the game..

Good counterpoint. You sure changed my views with that post.

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