Thunder Offseason Thread

[slick_watts]

Let's also not ignore how incompetent Sammy boy and his staff are when it comes to the second round / trading back into the late first round assessments and evaluations.

There were two stone cold locks that I had going into this past draft, both of which could have been had at the top of the 2nd and would help this team immensely moving forward with almost immediate returns... Bates-Diop and Brunson... and there they are, as rookies, looking very much the part of key pieces this team needed / needs.

Who the hell did we draft again this past draft? Devon Hall, Kevin Hervey and a trade in for Diallo... so two trash cash european league players and a kid who could be a halfway decent athlete off the bench some day.

Nicely done.

i enjoy seeing you emotional. didn't you decry this sort of reaction all season? let it out, bruh.

[slick_watts]

starting unit

oct/nov (76 minutes): 118.3pp100 / 94.6pp100 / +23.7pp100
dec (186 minutes): 107.5pp100 / 94.1pp100 / +13.4pp100
jan (255 minutes): 112.3pp100 / 102.1pp100 / +10.2pp100
feb ((135 minutes): 116.6pp100 / 107.9pp100 / +8.6pp100
ma/aprr (213 minutes): 108.5pp100 / 107.9pp100 / +0.7pp100
playoffs (72 minutes): 110.5pp100 / 119.0pp100 / -8.5pp100

whatever happens, this needs to be figured out first. the defense dropping off the face of the planet and the starters with a very clear progression downwards all season. what's responsible? this cannot be explained by strength of schedule alone.

[Kizz Fastfists]

I think Russ will actually shoot better next year. I keep coming back to the timing of when he had knee surgery. Did the Thunder/Russ wait til last moment? Or did the knee issue just pop up when it did?

It just happened at that time. He had been playing on it the whole off-season. It was probably never 100% all off-season as much ball as he was playing and since he goes 100% in those pickup games. Where most players take 4-6 weeks off and heal Russ just kept pushing hard. It is why Russ will have continue to have more off-season issues as he ages and his body gets worse at healing.

[Kizz Fastfists]

whatever happens, this needs to be figured out first. the defense dropping off the face of the planet and the starters with a very clear progression downwards all season. what's responsible? this cannot be explained by strength of schedule alone.

They are fresh early in the season and can play great iso. Then as the aches and soreness set in they have issues with their iso. Then when the playoffs start any competent high school coach can game plan for OKC.

[Dadouv47]

I think Russ will actually shoot better next year. I keep coming back to the timing of when he had knee surgery. Did the Thunder/Russ wait til last moment? Or did the knee issue just pop up when it did?

It just happened at that time. He had been playing on it the whole off-season. It was probably never 100% all off-season as much ball as he was playing and since he goes 100% in those pickup games. Where most players take 4-6 weeks off and heal Russ just kept pushing hard. It is why Russ will have continue to have more off-season issues as he ages and his body gets worse at healing.

Not really true last two offseason with his knees issues.

Not really confident about him shooting better next year (unless he gets some miraculous new treatment for his knees). At this point the most optimistic scenario would be that something went wrong with his last small surgery (for him to need to put ice on his knees during all season) and they can make it better. But that's a pipe dream.

[slick_watts]

whatever happens, this needs to be figured out first. the defense dropping off the face of the planet and the starters with a very clear progression downwards all season. what's responsible? this cannot be explained by strength of schedule alone.

They are fresh early in the season and can play great iso. Then as the aches and soreness set in they have issues with their iso. Then when the playoffs start any competent high school coach can game plan for OKC.

the offense, as inconsistent as it has been lately, has still been better than early in the year. our offense is easy enough to understand i think. the ebbs and flows appear to coincide with fluctuations in 3pt shooting mostly. it's the defense that is perplexing, and the thunder have to figure out what to believe about the defense before they can make any informed decisions.

[acheema0]

Gonna be thinking out loud here a bit. I wonder if they (the front office) makes an effort to shift the team toward more of an offensive direction. Russ's value used to come from the way you could surround him with good defensive players, and he could lead you to a good (enough) offense. He isn't that guy anymore. He needs more offensive talent around him. But this would require a shift in what seem to be Presti's core beliefs when building a team. Would he be willing to change/accept that this isn't the way to build a team in this era? I honestly don't know. Maybe he and Billy have to be fired for this to happen.

The Bucks are interesting in this regard. They seemed to recognize this and shift toward surrounding Giannis with much more shooting. Granted, they had more assets and Giannis is a better player than Russ. But it took them firing their GM, John Hammond, to make this shift. Hammond isn't as good of a gm as Presti, IMO, but he seems to have similar core beliefs and values the same type of player. So, perhaps wee do have to fire Presti for this to happen. I don't know.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Not really confident about him shooting better next year (unless he gets some miraculous new treatment for his knees). At this point the most optimistic scenario would be that something went wrong with his last small surgery (for him to need to put ice on his knees during all season) and they can make it better. But that's a pipe dream.

You are right that his knees are shot and his athleticism is slipping. The only way his shooting improves is he reworks his shooting motion where he isn't as leg dependent and I don't think he is willing/able to do that.

[SecondTake]

Gonna be thinking out loud here a bit. I wonder if they (the front office) makes an effort to shift the team toward more of an offensive direction. Russ's value used to come from the way you could surround him with good defensive players, and he could lead you to a good (enough) offense. He isn't that guy anymore. He needs more offensive talent around him. But this would require a shift in what seem to be Presti's core beliefs when building a team. Would he be willing to change/accept that this isn't the way to build a team in this era? I honestly don't know. Maybe he and Billy have to be fired for this to happen.

The Bucks are interesting in this regard. They seemed to recognize this and shift toward surrounding Giannis with much more shooting. Granted, they had more assets and Giannis is a better player than Russ. But it took them firing their GM, John Hammond, to make this shift. Hammond isn't as good of a gm as Presti, IMO, but he seems to have similar core beliefs and values the same type of player. So, perhaps wee do have to fire Presti for this to happen. I don't know.

I cant imagine after this train wreck of a series that Presti doesn't see the obvious anymore. Missing Roberson all year isn't an excuse anyone could believe. IF Presti understands that we need shooters at this point (I can't imagine he doesn't now) then I think he's the guy to pull the rabbit out of the hat and get them here. I really don't think he valued shooting. I can't imagine he doesn't anymore.

[Kizz Fastfists]

I cant imagine after this train wreck of a series that Presti doesn't see the obvious anymore.

Presti still does not see the obvious that the team needs to be blown up and rebuilt. He will shuffle the deckchairs on the titanic with his buddy Donovan returning to coach.

[SecondTake]

I cant imagine after this train wreck of a series that Presti doesn't see the obvious anymore.

Presti still does not see the obvious that the team needs to be blown up and rebuilt. He will shuffle the deckchairs on the titanic with his buddy Donovan returning to coach.

How can you be so sure? I mean this playoff meltdown is a lot worse than last year, there's no excuses to point to besides lack of shooting.

[ThunderBolt]

I cant imagine after this train wreck of a series that Presti doesn't see the obvious anymore.

Presti still does not see the obvious that the team needs to be blown up and rebuilt. He will shuffle the deckchairs on the titanic with his buddy Donovan returning to coach.

How can you be so sure? I mean this playoff meltdown is a lot worse than last year, there's no excuses to point to besides lack of shooting.

Because as soon as playoff Schroder arrives, we will be fine.

[Osirus89]

Tyler Herro is looking more and more like the perfect draft selection for this team if they decide to keep the pick.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tyler-herro-1.html

Knowing Presti he will probably draft Thybulle and pray that once he is in the league, he will magically be able to hit jumpers

If they can't get any shooters in FA, the draft is the only pathway to bring it in. Don't draft another center or a non-shooting wing Presti!

[slick_watts]

it's not just shooters that the team needs, they need westbrook to either be better or take a lessor role. the offense isn't going to work consistently if he's shooting 36% eFG on pull-up jump shots and attempting 8-10 of those a game. those shots have to be more effective or they need to be eliminated. he has to get to the line more and make the free throws. if he can't make those changes, he needs to reduce his fga/poss by 30-40% and only attempt shots at or near the rim or paint. like ben simmons does. in that case the thunder would need to surround him with shooters and play-makers but this is not cheap and they probably don't have the scratch to make that happen.

the best thing to happen is for westbrook to put the work in to shore up these things. there's a whole lot of talk about how hard a worker westbrook is and all that but the last two years there's been no evidence. things like free throw shooting are effort and focus and work based. after shooting 70-ish% last season you'd think he'd put the work in to get that fixed, but no.

we'll find out soon if westbrook is really that guy or if he's just taking his $200 million and mvp trophy and triple doubles and effectively calling it a career.

[SecondTake]

Presti still does not see the obvious that the team needs to be blown up and rebuilt. He will shuffle the deckchairs on the titanic with his buddy Donovan returning to coach.

How can you be so sure? I mean this playoff meltdown is a lot worse than last year, there's no excuses to point to besides lack of shooting.

Because as soon as playoff Schroder arrives, we will be fine.

I no longer believe in playoff Schroder. I now only believe in pretty good Schroder.

[ThunderBolt]

How can you be so sure? I mean this playoff meltdown is a lot worse than last year, there's no excuses to point to besides lack of shooting.

Because as soon as playoff Schroder arrives, we will be fine.

I no longer believe in playoff Schroder. I now only believe in pretty good Schroder.

You should believe in bad contract Schroder.

[SecondTake]

it's not just shooters that the team needs, they need westbrook to either be better or take a lessor role. the offense isn't going to work consistently if he's shooting 36% eFG on pull-up jump shots and attempting 8-10 of those a game. those shots have to be more effective or they need to be eliminated. he has to get to the line more and make the free throws. if he can't make those changes, he needs to reduce his fga/poss by 30-40% and only attempt shots at or near the rim or paint. like ben simmons does. in that case the thunder would need to surround him with shooters and play-makers but this is not cheap and they probably don't have the scratch to make that happen.

the best thing to happen is for westbrook to put the work in to shore up these things. there's a whole lot of talk about how hard a worker westbrook is and all that but the last two years there's been no evidence. things like free throw shooting are effort and focus and work based. after shooting 70-ish% last season you'd think he'd put the work in to get that fixed, but no.

we'll find out soon if westbrook is really that guy or if he's just taking his $200 million and mvp trophy and triple doubles and effectively calling it a career.

I'm assuming WB didn't work much last off season due to surgery and rehab. So I expect his numbers to get better, but I don't expect him to become a good shooter. You need to surround him with good shooters that can run the floor. Ferg/Grant/Roberson/PG can keep the defense above league average. Everyone outside of those guys needs to be a good outside 3 point shooter. 3&D guys are rare and expensive, but simple spot up shooters aren't that hard to find.

WB still commands the double in the pain and his finishing their is still really solid. If you have a center that can at least have a midrange shot and 2 other guys that can knock down the three it will help both WB's efficiency go way up, his 3 point attempts should go down and the team efficiency should go up. We don't need a bunch of Ray Allens to do this.

[SecondTake]

Because as soon as playoff Schroder arrives, we will be fine.

I no longer believe in playoff Schroder. I now only believe in pretty good Schroder.

You should believe in bad contract Schroder.

I concede. He's kind of like Adams in that way. He's a worse player but on a comparatively lower contract. If we can move Schroder I'm OK with that (along with Adams), but I think if he had a stretch 5 with a few other pieces on the bench that could shoot he would be able to do a lot more for the team.

[Old Man Game]

A lot of us the last several years have said at various points something to the effect of 'I think they have to tank I don't see how they can make this work.' Then presti pulls off some sort of trade and for a short time we're all like 'oh my gosh I was so wrong they made it work.' But then here we are basically in the same position of first round exit and once again those who said they couldn't make it work are more or less right so far.

Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

[SecondTake]

I guess this post should be here;

Offseason necessities;

1. Fire Donovan (Why hasn't this yet happened today?)
2. Dump Merkieff & Nader
3. Sign a starting SG that can shoot from outside (and put Ferg back on the bench) If Ferg makes a big enough jump (big IF), then maybe he can stay as a starter.
4. Trade Adams for shooter(s). He's great but costs too much and doesn't do enough for it. A much cheaper stretch 5 or garbage man could be had freeing up space for shooters.
5. Sign at least one more outside shooter in addition to a shooting SG.
6. Noel will be a big loss... Get a stretch 5 to replace him.
7. Make Roberson either a bench 3 or 4.

PS: Also make sure Ferg lives in the weight room and puts on at least 10lb of muscle, preferably 15+.

Bonus: Fire Donovan twice.