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Free agency and trade ideas: Which wings do we go after this summer?

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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#61 » by Blonde » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:54 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Blonde wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I agree they have to. And his cap hold is likely less than he will get paid, so ultimately, for our cap space this year, it doesn't matter how much he is paid. It may just matter later if/when we are more competitive but can't add another FA because we are stuck with his contract and it turns out to be a big overpay based on production.

We'd also have a good $20 more million in cap space this year if Booker would have waited to extend like Brooklyn is doing with Russell, though Russell has a much bigger cap hold than Booker would have....which is why we would have had so much cap space.

I know it somewhat sounds like crying over spilled milk but it just seems like we always operate without a long term plan. We easily have almost two max spots this summer with a couple of differences.

Of course that doesn't mean we could have signed anyone but it would have been nice to know we had the space to do so and could try.


Booker waiting to sign wouldn’t have opened up that much. He makes 27 next year and his cap hold would have been in the low teens so around 15 million in extra space probably. From a pure financial standpoint everyone knew we were limiting ourselves with the extension but I’d still go back and do that every time without regret. Booker is the long term plan. Everything else is secondary. We as fans have overrated the value of cap space for a team in our position quite a bit over the last few years. If a max player wants to sign here we will make the space for it one way or another.


I thought his cap hold was like $8 million, but I guess it would have been a little higher than Oubre's, so not as much as I was thinking. I don't think there is any way at all he turns down the max deal from us this offseason either so for me I would have waited. If we are not good when he is up for extension next time or a year or two prior, he would probably ask for a trade anyway if he cares about winning.

I agree cap space could be overrated but when you could easily have it vs not have it with more options, I'd take it.

You talk about having no long term plan then balk at extending the only long term player we had on the roster. At what expense? If we have an extra 15m this year we probably extend Kelly right away and its all gone. Things like extending franchise players matter and have value beyond the salary cap implications.
Having cap space for the sake of it is pointless. The last few years we’ve had cap space and been unable to attract premier players and ended up making bad financial decisions. Having options isn’t necessarily good when you have organizational incompetence and are not a destination market.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#62 » by Crives » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:59 am

My point wasn’t necessarily on the total offer for Oubre, more focused on offering a 5 year front loaded deal might get Oubre to accept a lower offer.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#63 » by bwgood77 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:07 am

Blonde wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Blonde wrote:
Booker waiting to sign wouldn’t have opened up that much. He makes 27 next year and his cap hold would have been in the low teens so around 15 million in extra space probably. From a pure financial standpoint everyone knew we were limiting ourselves with the extension but I’d still go back and do that every time without regret. Booker is the long term plan. Everything else is secondary. We as fans have overrated the value of cap space for a team in our position quite a bit over the last few years. If a max player wants to sign here we will make the space for it one way or another.


I thought his cap hold was like $8 million, but I guess it would have been a little higher than Oubre's, so not as much as I was thinking. I don't think there is any way at all he turns down the max deal from us this offseason either so for me I would have waited. If we are not good when he is up for extension next time or a year or two prior, he would probably ask for a trade anyway if he cares about winning.

I agree cap space could be overrated but when you could easily have it vs not have it with more options, I'd take it.

You talk about having no long term plan then balk at extending the only long term player we had on the roster. At what expense? If we have an extra 15m this year we probably extend Kelly right away and its all gone. Things like extending franchise players matter and have value beyond the salary cap implications.
Having cap space for the sake of it is pointless. The last few years we’ve had cap space and been unable to attract premier players and ended up making bad financial decisions. Having options isn’t necessarily good when you have organizational incompetence and are not a destination market.


There was no real advantage to extending Booker early. They obviously were giving him the max. It just limits what you can do this summer. I doubt we would have extended Oubre early...we could have done that anyway, which would have been a similar move to extending Booker...further killing our cap space if his hold was bigger with his new contract.

This is just a huge summer for free agents and perhaps would have been our last chance at max guys. It feels to me like we squandered it. I don't think just because you haven't signed anyone you should throw in the towel of ever being able to. Maybe we wouldn't have been able to. Of course if we just chalk it up to cap space not being good because we have organizational incompetence than we may as well throw in the towel with everything.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#64 » by Damkac » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:32 am


What I would try to do for the Suns is to draft Clarke (if not get lucky in the lottery), sign PatBev, sign another defensive-minded vet and try to change the culture into a tough, defensive team with offense based on Booker and Ayton surrounded with shooters and Warren, Oubre and Clarke cutting.

But I don't trust Sarver and Jones to do anything that will not be idiotic.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#65 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:48 pm

Damkac wrote:
What I would try to do for the Suns is to draft Clarke (if not get lucky in the lottery), sign PatBev, sign another defensive-minded vet and try to change the culture into a tough, defensive team with offense based on Booker and Ayton surrounded with shooters and Warren, Oubre and Clarke cutting.

But I don't trust Sarver and Jones to do anything that will not be idiotic.


That's a pretty fair assumption man to be honest. Especially considering we haven't really heard much if any mention of Clarke from the Suns at all.

But then again, They've always been very cryptic.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#66 » by BobbieL » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:46 pm

Damkac wrote:
What I would try to do for the Suns is to draft Clarke (if not get lucky in the lottery), sign PatBev, sign another defensive-minded vet and try to change the culture into a tough, defensive team with offense based on Booker and Ayton surrounded with shooters and Warren, Oubre and Clarke cutting.

But I don't trust Sarver and Jones to do anything that will not be idiotic.


I really liked Beverley this years. Added a lot of snark, and attitude. The Suns need that. He might be tops on my list. And the Clippers do have young guards and might not bring back Beverley if they have bigger players to sign (Kawhi perhaps)

Beverley may not be the prototypical PG but with Booker and Tyler - would be a nice three guard rotation.

As for PF - Aminu or Thad Young seem realistic

Clarke from the draft would be outstanding - willing to trade back for cap space to get him.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#67 » by lazyboy62 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:50 am





Defense you say? My I present Matisse Thybulle the Suns second round pick, if he is there.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#68 » by Crives » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:25 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#69 » by Crives » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:39 am

With the spurs loss tonight, would be nice if LMA gets traded to Portland freeing up Aminu this summer.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#70 » by TheLogician » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:09 pm

Lmao is that a costume?
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#72 » by BobbieL » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:03 pm

Crives wrote:Did espn write a positive article on the suns??
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/26593096/how-far-young-phoenix-suns-contending


Pelton is good

I do not have Insider anymore - but he is one of the good ones at ESPN. I think they are a couple years from the playoffs but ask me again after this draft and summer player acquisition.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#73 » by LukasBMW » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:04 pm

What if we had taken J Murray instead of Bender?

What id we had let JJ work out for Boston instead of sabotaging his workout?

Murray
Booker/Bridges
Oubre/TJ
Tatum
Ayton/Holmes

God. Damn.

That's the stuff dreams are made of!
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#74 » by Crives » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:37 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Blonde wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I thought his cap hold was like $8 million, but I guess it would have been a little higher than Oubre's, so not as much as I was thinking. I don't think there is any way at all he turns down the max deal from us this offseason either so for me I would have waited. If we are not good when he is up for extension next time or a year or two prior, he would probably ask for a trade anyway if he cares about winning.

I agree cap space could be overrated but when you could easily have it vs not have it with more options, I'd take it.

You talk about having no long term plan then balk at extending the only long term player we had on the roster. At what expense? If we have an extra 15m this year we probably extend Kelly right away and its all gone. Things like extending franchise players matter and have value beyond the salary cap implications.
Having cap space for the sake of it is pointless. The last few years we’ve had cap space and been unable to attract premier players and ended up making bad financial decisions. Having options isn’t necessarily good when you have organizational incompetence and are not a destination market.


There was no real advantage to extending Booker early. They obviously were giving him the max. It just limits what you can do this summer. I doubt we would have extended Oubre early...we could have done that anyway, which would have been a similar move to extending Booker...further killing our cap space if his hold was bigger with his new contract.

This is just a huge summer for free agents and perhaps would have been our last chance at max guys. It feels to me like we squandered it. I don't think just because you haven't signed anyone you should throw in the towel of ever being able to. Maybe we wouldn't have been able to. Of course if we just chalk it up to cap space not being good because we have organizational incompetence than we may as well throw in the towel with everything.



I think suns thought they would have max space this summer when they signed the extension (no Oubre and waive Ryan)

Getting book locked up early would have helped in going after a max FA on day 1.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#75 » by Qwigglez » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:00 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Blonde wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I thought his cap hold was like $8 million, but I guess it would have been a little higher than Oubre's, so not as much as I was thinking. I don't think there is any way at all he turns down the max deal from us this offseason either so for me I would have waited. If we are not good when he is up for extension next time or a year or two prior, he would probably ask for a trade anyway if he cares about winning.

I agree cap space could be overrated but when you could easily have it vs not have it with more options, I'd take it.

You talk about having no long term plan then balk at extending the only long term player we had on the roster. At what expense? If we have an extra 15m this year we probably extend Kelly right away and its all gone. Things like extending franchise players matter and have value beyond the salary cap implications.
Having cap space for the sake of it is pointless. The last few years we’ve had cap space and been unable to attract premier players and ended up making bad financial decisions. Having options isn’t necessarily good when you have organizational incompetence and are not a destination market.


There was no real advantage to extending Booker early. They obviously were giving him the max. It just limits what you can do this summer. I doubt we would have extended Oubre early...we could have done that anyway, which would have been a similar move to extending Booker...further killing our cap space if his hold was bigger with his new contract.

This is just a huge summer for free agents and perhaps would have been our last chance at max guys. It feels to me like we squandered it. I don't think just because you haven't signed anyone you should throw in the towel of ever being able to. Maybe we wouldn't have been able to. Of course if we just chalk it up to cap space not being good because we have organizational incompetence than we may as well throw in the towel with everything.


Extending Booker early was solely done IMO because we didn't want to have to deal with rumors all season of him potentially going to another team (via trade or off-season). This was discussed heavily going into last summer, as I pointed out that Booker could wait to sign this summer, giving us an extra $15M in cap space. Similar to what Kawhi did with the Spurs, which led to the Spurs being able to sign LaMarcus Aldridge. Had Kawhi signed a deal the prior summer the Spurs wouldn't have LMA right now. Very similar situation.

With the Oubre trade, I think the front office initially made the trade, to try and trade Oubre later to another team before the trade deadline (probably for a 1st round pick). However, his play for the team was a surprise and they didn't really consider that. So instead of having an extra $10M in cap space, we are likely going to match any offer KO gets.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#76 » by Years90Suns » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:43 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:If the suns do move Warren I'd keep an eye on Utah. Maybe not a team in the league that could more use his skills and hide his flaws.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


Sign and trade for Rubio type deal? Or just a cash dump


Granted - they may want Conley
Probably a few different scenarios that could work. Just saying Utah makes a ton of sense as a team to go after Warren. They could desperately use his scoring and gobert helps negate his suspect D.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


Warren is one of ther best defenders on the entire League.
He is not flashy, he does not great gestures, he is undersized, is not a shot blocker and is not a good rebounder.
But he is one of those guys that gets close to his player and does not let him be confortable.
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#77 » by Fo-Real » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:04 pm

Years90Suns wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Sign and trade for Rubio type deal? Or just a cash dump


Granted - they may want Conley
Probably a few different scenarios that could work. Just saying Utah makes a ton of sense as a team to go after Warren. They could desperately use his scoring and gobert helps negate his suspect D.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


Warren is one of ther best defenders on the entire League.
He is not flashy, he does not great gestures, he is undersized, is not a shot blocker and is not a good rebounder.
But he is one of those guys that gets close to his player and does not let him be confortable.


One of the best defenders IN THE LEAGUE?!?! :o
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#78 » by Waylay13 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:32 pm

Years90Suns wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Sign and trade for Rubio type deal? Or just a cash dump


Granted - they may want Conley
Probably a few different scenarios that could work. Just saying Utah makes a ton of sense as a team to go after Warren. They could desperately use his scoring and gobert helps negate his suspect D.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


Warren is one of ther best defenders on the entire League.
He is not flashy, he does not great gestures, he is undersized, is not a shot blocker and is not a good rebounder.
But he is one of those guys that gets close to his player and does not let him be confortable.


There are a lot of things that will say about Warren, a good scorer and a solid player but one thing that should never be said about Warren is that he is anything more then a fair defender at best.
Just say no to idiots!!
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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#79 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:22 pm

Years90Suns wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Sign and trade for Rubio type deal? Or just a cash dump


Granted - they may want Conley
Probably a few different scenarios that could work. Just saying Utah makes a ton of sense as a team to go after Warren. They could desperately use his scoring and gobert helps negate his suspect D.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


Warren is one of ther best defenders on the entire League.
He is not flashy, he does not great gestures, he is undersized, is not a shot blocker and is not a good rebounder.
But he is one of those guys that gets close to his player and does not let him be confortable.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Re: Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: The Annual Coaching Search Begins 

Post#80 » by Saberestar » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:55 pm

Ashley Nevel says that Warren AND Jackson are gonna be traded.

She is more secure about Warren being traded but she expects that Jackson is gonna be included in a trade too. She added that Warren was healthy at the end of the season.

She nailed Kokoskov being fired so she has some credibility already.

Here is the full interview:

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