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Dreaming the perfect off-season

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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#41 » by jayu70 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:30 pm

King Ken wrote:
Spoiler:
jayu70 wrote:
King Ken wrote:1. Get lucky in the lottery.
2. Trade up from #9 to land Cam Reddish
3. Land Anthony Davis without trading Trae/Kev/Cam/John
We need all four of them.

Do I think it is possible? Yes but not as things stand right now. We have to get lucky in the lottery. I see a number of ways we can have an elite trade package for AD without breaking our core.

Trae
Kev
Cam
John
AD

Questions:
1. So what's your offer for a Davis rental? Is it the lottery luck pick? 1-4?
2. What are you adding to #9 pick to move up for Cam especially if we're trading for AD?

1. Land at #2 and hope R.J. falls to #4 and PHX is at #3 or #4 overall and the Bulls at #3.
My offer would be based around R.J. and Phx top 3 protected 2020 at the least.

2. Cleveland 1st 2020 top 10, two 2nd rounders, and small cap flexibility.

That's a lot to fall into place.
I think NOP will want one of our young players and not just picks ala the Paul George and Jimmy Butler deals.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#42 » by King Ken » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:12 pm

jayu70 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
Spoiler:
jayu70 wrote:Questions:
1. So what's your offer for a Davis rental? Is it the lottery luck pick? 1-4?
2. What are you adding to #9 pick to move up for Cam especially if we're trading for AD?

1. Land at #2 and hope R.J. falls to #4 and PHX is at #3 or #4 overall and the Bulls at #3.
My offer would be based around R.J. and Phx top 3 protected 2020 at the least.

2. Cleveland 1st 2020 top 10, two 2nd rounders, and small cap flexibility.

That's a lot to fall into place.
I think NOP will want one of our young players and not just picks ala the Paul George and Jimmy Butler deals.

They can want it but it doesn't mean they will get it.

AD is a great have but he is not a want until he is locked up long term.

No way should Atlanta part with key players and Cam for a year of AD. No way in hell.

If they want a deal that has more than R.J., a 2020 1st from PHX, we really can't do it. Even at the max, adding our 2020 1st unprotected is the best we can do.

Otherwise, you trading assets for nothing.

This don't work without

Trae
Kevin
SF of the future like Cam
John
With AD.

You take anything less and you just mortgaged your future for a rental. Give him no choice but to stay. Can't do that without Trae, Kev, John and someone like Cam.

Even miss one player, there is an issue.

This is the case for Boston too. They can't mortgage their future unless it right.


Me personally, my best offer would be 1st 2020 suns, hawks 2020, TP and the gem is R.J. Barrett for AD.


I would try my hardest to avoid taking on Solo Hill contract.

I would not trade #9 or 2020 Cleveland. I would not trade our 2nd rounders. I would NOT trade our core or future 1sts beyond 2020.

That Solo Hill throwin would be a hangup for me because I want that 15 million to use on other vets instead of a trash one like Hill.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#43 » by jayu70 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:20 pm

King Ken wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
Spoiler:

1. Land at #2 and hope R.J. falls to #4 and PHX is at #3 or #4 overall and the Bulls at #3.
My offer would be based around R.J. and Phx top 3 protected 2020 at the least.

2. Cleveland 1st 2020 top 10, two 2nd rounders, and small cap flexibility.

That's a lot to fall into place.
I think NOP will want one of our young players and not just picks ala the Paul George and Jimmy Butler deals.

They can want it but it doesn't mean they will get it.

AD is a great have but he is not a want until he is locked up long term.

No way should Atlanta part with key players and Cam for a year of AD. No way in hell.

If they want a deal that has more than R.J., a 2020 1st from PHX, we really can't do it. Even at the max, adding our 2020 1st unprotected is the best we can do.

Otherwise, you trading assets for nothing.

This don't work without

Trae
Kevin
SF of the future like Cam
John
With AD.

You take anything less and you just mortgaged your future for a rental. Give him no choice but to stay. Can't do that without Trae, Kev, John and someone like Cam.

Even miss one player, there is an issue.

This is the case for Boston too. They can't mortgage their future unless it right.

I agree, and that is why I have no interest in trading for a rental at the asking price.

The difference with Boston is they a playoff tested, we are not. Also, they aren't trading their own picks, they'll be trading picks owed from other teams.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#44 » by King Ken » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:23 pm

jayu70 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
jayu70 wrote:That's a lot to fall into place.
I think NOP will want one of our young players and not just picks ala the Paul George and Jimmy Butler deals.

They can want it but it doesn't mean they will get it.

AD is a great have but he is not a want until he is locked up long term.

No way should Atlanta part with key players and Cam for a year of AD. No way in hell.

If they want a deal that has more than R.J., a 2020 1st from PHX, we really can't do it. Even at the nk, adding our 2020 1st unprotected is the best we can do.

Otherwise, you trading assets for nothing.

This don't work without

Trae
Kevin
SF of the future like Cam
John
With AD.

You take anything less and you just mortgaged your future for a rental. Give him no choice but to stay. Can't do that without Trae, Kev, John and someone like Cam.

Even miss one player, there is an issue.

This is the case for Boston too. They can't mortgage their future unless it right.

I agree, and that is why I have no interest in trading for a rental at the asking price.

The difference with Boston is they a playoff tested, we are not. Also, they aren't trading their own picks, they'll be trading picks owed from other teams.

I am still a believer Boston wont offer Tatum unless they know for a fact Kyrie is back.

No way you part with him for a rental.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#45 » by jayu70 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:09 pm

King Ken wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
King Ken wrote:They can want it but it doesn't mean they will get it.

AD is a great have but he is not a want until he is locked up long term.

No way should Atlanta part with key players and Cam for a year of AD. No way in hell.

If they want a deal that has more than R.J., a 2020 1st from PHX, we really can't do it. Even at the nk, adding our 2020 1st unprotected is the best we can do.

Otherwise, you trading assets for nothing.

This don't work without

Trae
Kevin
SF of the future like Cam
John
With AD.

You take anything less and you just mortgaged your future for a rental. Give him no choice but to stay. Can't do that without Trae, Kev, John and someone like Cam.

Even miss one player, there is an issue.

This is the case for Boston too. They can't mortgage their future unless it right.

I agree, and that is why I have no interest in trading for a rental at the asking price.

The difference with Boston is they a playoff tested, we are not. Also, they aren't trading their own picks, they'll be trading picks owed from other teams.

I am still a believer Boston wont offer Tatum unless they know for a fact Kyrie is back.

No way you part with him for a rental.

Agreed
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#46 » by Hazer » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:49 pm

I'd rather roll with Len/Porter/Collins at C and offer Kawhi a MAX + his own Delta SkyLounge than mortgage our future for a rental season of The Brow at 5.


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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#47 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:54 pm

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Tyler Ulis would be a fabulous two-way pick-up. He's been hurt both seasons since getting drafted.

The average age of this roster would be around 23... some probably wouldn't like that... I love that.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#48 » by King Ken » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:39 pm

The perfect offseason for me is to add Cam Reddish and AD to Trae/Kev/Collins. That would be special and I think AD would resign with that squad and we would be a walking mismatch.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#49 » by King Ken » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:36 pm

Kiss the ring Al Horford haters
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#50 » by fuzzy1 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:36 pm

The thing about an AD trade is we just have to beat the other offers. Everybody is acting like we'd have to sell the farm, but if we land a top 3 pick that is the best asset on the table for AD by far IMO. I wouldn't trade Zion for him, but otherwise we'd be in the driver's seat and I doubt we'd have to give up too much more.

If we do, don't trade for him, simple as that. He's very good but not worth mortgaging everything for him. If we land AD, I think we make big time pitches to Kawhi and KD, in that order

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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#51 » by King Ken » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:02 pm

We need luck to get AD. Because we still need a SF of the future regardless of AD or not. We get lucky as move up and keep the Dallas pick. We are in tremendous position to make a move for AD and move up with the Dallas pick.

The best east teams have 5 guys and a bench
Bledsoe
Brogdon
Middleton
Freak
Lopez

Lowry
Green
Klaw
Freakiam
Gasol

Kyrie
Smart
Tatum
Morris
Horford

NY
Could have

Kyrie
Hezonja
Durant
Zion
Jordan

So you gotta have five guys and a bench. If we don't, he for sure is just a 1 year rental.

Trae/Kev/Cam/John/AD

With Baze/Bem/Omari/Len we need a legit backup PG
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#52 » by Atlanta Hawk Fan » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:03 pm

King Ken wrote:I believe in the mantra, you like a guy, move up and trade for him. You trade up for Reddish if you get lucky and move up otherwise.


What is the big appeal with Reddish? He was terrible offensively last year with a TS% below .500 against college defenders and with two teammates getting the biggest defensive attention and had a significantly higher TO% than he did AST% (3.6 TO / 2.6 AST per game). 35.6% FG% just leaves him without an alibi.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#53 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:16 pm

We've just spent the weekend, or at least some of us have, watching most of the 7 rounds of the NFL draft... answering the question, some guys' numbers are better than their tape... some guys' tape is better than their numbers.

I agree with Supes, that Reddish' tape is indicative of the same incredible ceiling that he was said to have just a year ago when he was a Duke recruit.

I also have been one to say that Reddish' numbers make his floor too low for me to draft with our top pick, and very possibly with the DAL pick.

We have a difference in approach, for sure, once you get beyond the agreement on Zion.

I consider Zion priority #1, and anything you have to do to get him is worthy of conversation.

If you're fortunate to have him land in our collective lap on 5/14, then my preference is to accumulate all the #15-#30 picks we can, and fill the roster with youth to accompany Zion. I don't want to spend money on veterans at all to the degree I can avoid it, except for Middleton.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#54 » by King Ken » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:14 pm

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
King Ken wrote:I believe in the mantra, you like a guy, move up and trade for him. You trade up for Reddish if you get lucky and move up otherwise.


What is the big appeal with Reddish? He was terrible offensively last year with a TS% below .500 against college defenders and with two teammates getting the biggest defensive attention and had a significantly higher TO% than he did AST% (3.6 TO / 2.6 AST per game). 35.6% FG% just leaves him without an alibi.

His 3/D ability
3 point shooting volume
Talent
Range from 30ft
Ability to get steals
System fit

It would seem simple as Zion and R.J. gets the attention but teams just packed the paint and knew to force Cam to drive with a lack of explosiveness. Teams didn't leave him open much. Spacing was terrible, and everyone knew he was the only player that could shoot who plays significant minutes.

He will translate much better to the NBA and he will really translate well with us.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#55 » by King Ken » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:18 pm

_s_t_u_r_t_ wrote:We've just spent the weekend, or at least some of us have, watching most of the 7 rounds of the NFL draft... answering the question, some guys' numbers are better than their tape... some guys' tape is better than their numbers.

I agree with Supes, that Reddish' tape is indicative of the same incredible ceiling that he was said to have just a year ago when he was a Duke recruit.

I also have been one to say that Reddish' numbers make his floor too low for me to draft with our top pick, and very possibly with the DAL pick.

We have a difference in approach, for sure, once you get beyond the agreement on Zion.

I consider Zion priority #1, and anything you have to do to get him is worthy of conversation.

If you're fortunate to have him land in our collective lap on 5/14, then my preference is to accumulate all the #15-#30 picks we can, and fill the roster with youth to accompany Zion. I don't want to spend money on veterans at all to the degree I can avoid it, except for Middleton.

Cam floor for the NBA is much higher than what's being stated. It's at least as high as Okogie and Huerter and I think it is higher than those two as prospects. The NBA is just a different game.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#56 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:48 pm

From where I sit, we have to take home Zion, Reddish, Fernando or Bol, or a 2020 high-probability high pick.

Started this thread just to envision what would be the ultimate haul.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#57 » by Atlanta Hawk Fan » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:53 pm

King Ken wrote:
Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
King Ken wrote:I believe in the mantra, you like a guy, move up and trade for him. You trade up for Reddish if you get lucky and move up otherwise.


What is the big appeal with Reddish? He was terrible offensively last year with a TS% below .500 against college defenders and with two teammates getting the biggest defensive attention and had a significantly higher TO% than he did AST% (3.6 TO / 2.6 AST per game). 35.6% FG% just leaves him without an alibi.

His 3/D ability
3 point shooting volume
Talent
Range from 30ft
Ability to get steals
System fit

It would seem simple as Zion and R.J. gets the attention but teams just packed the paint and knew to force Cam to drive with a lack of explosiveness. Teams didn't leave him open much. Spacing was terrible, and everyone knew he was the only player that could shoot who plays significant minutes.

He will translate much better to the NBA and he will really translate well with us.


If we draft him I hope you are right! I am not that excited about a guy getting big volume who shoots 33% from the shorter college distance so hopefully if we draft him he shows it was defensive attention that hurt his %.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#58 » by _s_t_u_r_t_ » Tue May 7, 2019 1:06 am

I realize of course that Schlenk threw cold water on my ambition for us to add 6 new rookies for this season, but Travis, if you're out there, let me make my case from a rational perspective....

Us Hawk fans are paying a price, and have been, ever since you arrived and the decision was made to tank for awhile.

So, for you this was a professional career decision. You almost certainly didn't grow up a Hawks fan. Nothing against you--most GMs aren't lifelong fans of their employer. But please hear the point, once you get this franchise to an NBA Finals for the first time since being in ATL, that will be enough to allow you to move to whatever NBA team you'd choose.

For us fans, most of us anyway, we're lifers.... given this team's history, if it were merely a consumer entertainment choice, we would have bailed long ago.

All of that to say, Travis, we have an emotional plea for you to care about more than merely getting this team to the Finals once, or even a couple of times. It's no fun to go through what we've went through for the last two years, and very possibly next year sitting out the playoffs, and maybe even the year after that, with only the reward of an eventual one-time visit to the Finals on the plus side of that ledger.

There's only so much that you can control, of course. But at least until the team gets Collins and Young signed to extensions and the team gets to its first conference finals at some point, it's assumed you're naturally going to be trying to do good by us. But I believe a lot of us feel we're entitled to more than that. You're getting something professionally out of this, at the price of our pain.

So, instead of thinking about this as a project that boils down to identifying 3-4 all-star-quality players for the roster, 1 of which is NBA elite, and filling-in the rest with a mixture of recent draftees and free agent contracts, consider please the advantages of emphasizing quantity in the mid-to-late first round in a draft like this one, where the top tier quality is so thin, but the middle tier quality is so thick.

1. This team is still in a development stage, by your own definition, Travis. There will never be a better time for an influx of rookie talent, unless we could go back in a time machine to OS 2017 or 2018.

2. For the foreseeable future, this team is likely going to be picking-up middle tier talent, drafting in the middle of the draft.

3. Given the unusual sameness of the talent inventory in this draft, to the degree you can take that #9 or #10 pick plus 3 upper 2nd round slots and trade into the #15-#30 range, it's conceivable you can seriously add additional middle tier talents that, going forward, you're only going to be adding once a year.

4. In terms of timing for contracts, it couldn't be better than to have the capacity to pick and choose from your OS 2019 draft harvest those players who you've developed and have good reason to want to keep, since those are low-cost guys you can then extend above the cap at a time when you're likely going to be over the cap and constricted from what free agents you can pursue.

5. Circling back to where this began, this is the kind of strategy that seems more likely to help any success the team enjoys in the next 4-5 years extend to 7-8 years. And we deserve that kind of long-term concern.

Granted, you can't just snap your fingers and make it happen, and there are always many things to assess before making any trade, especially draft-day trades. But the point here is that it's certainly not something to be rejected on its face. There is a cogent line of reasoning that would justify it.

Thanks for reading, Travis.
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#59 » by King Ken » Tue May 7, 2019 1:54 am

A week in. Still want a top 3 pick. Still want to keep our 9th pick. Still want to make a trade for AD. Still want Reddish. I really really want Zion and Cam
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Re: Dreaming the perfect off-season 

Post#60 » by Radioblacktive1 » Tue May 7, 2019 8:49 am

Draft Zion. Sign Klay or Kawhi.

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