The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II

[DeRoma]

Problem is he never attacks... He continuously settles for contested jumpers and he is not a good enough shooter to even take those types of shots. To me, if he continues on to play like he did this season, he'll be out of the league by the end of his next contract. From what I see is a player that is manageable to be the main guy in the regular season but completely disappears when the opposing defense decides not to give him space like what we saw when he was against Simmons. Kinda pathetic how ineffective he was when the only defensive assignment against him was to lock him down. They didn't even try to do anything else like trap, deny the passing lane, put a satellite defender against him, etc. It was straight up D.

There is a silver-lining chance that he can if he can somehow convert the hard shots he stubbornly takes in a higher trajectory. Which he then instantly becomes a top 10 player on the league. However, I just don't see it. You can tell he is not a workhorse like Curry, Lebron, Kobe, etc. You can easily see it from watching him so lackadaisical handling the ball where he constantly gets cookied by no name defenders.

So basically I think he is a boom or bust player. If he continue to play the he have been with the lack of shooting improvement, he is as good as gone in the NBA. That "improvement" meaning he needs to be able to be god tier with his off-the-dribble shots. Either that or he needs to completely change his mentality of the game and be more of playmaking facilitator that can be a descent spot up shooter is what he can do to save his career.

Save his career? He's about to get a max contract (or something close) - what in the world are you talking about?

I read that and was like



He had a poor showing in the post season but dude made the all star team, put up 21/7/4 on decent percentages and practically carried this team to the playoffs. Now we go from that to him being out of the league?

This knock is more on the way his mentality is as a player. He needs the ball in order to show his effectiveness. Yet, he is not capable of breaking down the defense in an isolated situation. Yet, he has majority of the possession (USG% 30+ i.e. James Harden numbers). We've seen his numbers dip pretty low when he is not this high rate of possessions. Which basically question where and how he can fit into a system. Right now it's ok since we are still early on the process and he will get his first big pay check. Yet, I don't see teams giving the kind of money he is expecting if he doesn't show improvements on being productive without being the main center piece of the offense.

Where I'm getting at is basically what happened to Carmelo Anthony and I can see it happening to DLO in a very early stage of his career.

[MGrand15]

Save his career? He's about to get a max contract (or something close) - what in the world are you talking about?

I read that and was like



He had a poor showing in the post season but dude made the all star team, put up 21/7/4 on decent percentages and practically carried this team to the playoffs. Now we go from that to him being out of the league?

This knock is more on the way his mentality is as a player. He needs the ball in order to show his effectiveness. Yet, he is not capable of breaking down the defense in an isolated situation. Yet, he has majority of the possession (USG% 30+ i.e. James Harden numbers). We've seen his numbers dip pretty low when he is not this high rate of possessions. Which basically question where and how he can fit into a system. Right now it's ok since we are still early on the process and he will get his first big pay check. Yet, I don't see teams giving the kind of money he is expecting if he doesn't show improvements on being productive without being the main center piece of the offense.

Where I'm getting at is basically what happened to Carmelo Anthony and I can see it happening to DLO in a very early stage of his career.

Nah it's too early in the off-season to respond to this nonsense. We can have this argument in the dog days of summer after Vegas Summer League.

[DeRoma]

I read that and was like



He had a poor showing in the post season but dude made the all star team, put up 21/7/4 on decent percentages and practically carried this team to the playoffs. Now we go from that to him being out of the league?

This knock is more on the way his mentality is as a player. He needs the ball in order to show his effectiveness. Yet, he is not capable of breaking down the defense in an isolated situation. Yet, he has majority of the possession (USG% 30+ i.e. James Harden numbers). We've seen his numbers dip pretty low when he is not this high rate of possessions. Which basically question where and how he can fit into a system. Right now it's ok since we are still early on the process and he will get his first big pay check. Yet, I don't see teams giving the kind of money he is expecting if he doesn't show improvements on being productive without being the main center piece of the offense.

Where I'm getting at is basically what happened to Carmelo Anthony and I can see it happening to DLO in a very early stage of his career.

Nah it's too early in the off-season to respond to this nonsense. We can have this argument in the dog days of summer after Vegas Summer League.

i mean were talking about atleast 4 years down the road it's definitely too early to say. He can still be a bench player by then.

[Antti22]

This is getting to Kswiss type of quote level here. We all know how that worked out.
Kind of ridiculous to try to make a hot take for 23-year-old player to be out of the league in 4 years if he is about to get his first massive contract. But Kswiss did say he will be out of the league in 3 years, that was 2 years ago.

[DeRoma]

This is getting to Kswiss type of quote level here. We all know how that worked out.
Kind of ridiculous to try to make a hot take for 23-year-old player to be out of the league in 4 years if he is about to get his first massive contract. But Kswiss did say he will be out of the league in 3 years, that was 2 years ago.

Fact is you guys are drinking the kool-aid of the DLO praise. All i'm pointing out is a different perspective that I believe is more plausible than what is being said about him. Not necessarily he'll be out of the league for sure but that's definitely more evident than him being a superstar. I mean I find hilarious t people here literally compare him to a list of hall of fame players. Like do how do you not question that thought process? I mean do those people even watch basketball outside of Nets games? A week back, when we were still playing against the Sixers over the weekend, GSW v. LAC was on right after. From watching both games consecutively, you can easily see the skill level between Steph and Dlo. It wasn't even close whatsoever and we are talking about every facet of there game. The only thing DLO is on par with is his passing ability and you can't even say he was a much better passer than Steph. Yet, you still see people pushing this notion that he is still superstar? really? We then coddle him that he is only 23? It was his first playoff experience? I mean c'mon just be realistic. It just come to the point that we are pushing this guy to be a star because he is a very marketable player and it makes sense due to timeline.

[MrDollarBills]

You're comparing 23 year D'Angelo Russell to Steph Curry who is 31 years old and in his peak prime as an athlete, which is completely ridiculous. No one called Russell a superstar, either.

I understand being a bit down about how he performed in the playoffs, I think everyone here expects him to be better than what we saw, but you've jumped out the window on this one. From all star this year to out of the league next? How can you expect people to take you seriously with this kind of rhetoric?

Also, the reason why Russell was on that list that Prok posted is because the statistical output he posted this season qualified him to be on that list with big names. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Prokorov]

To me, if he continues on to play like he did this season, he'll be out of the league by the end of his next contract.

Trooooolllololololololol.

Kswiss is that you?

wait wait wait... wait....

so if russell signs a 5 year deal, and makes the all-star team 5 straight years. and averages 21/7/4 for 5 straight years, he will be out of the league calling stephon marbury for his connections in china

MJ what do you think about that?

From what I see is a player that is manageable to be the main guy in the regular season but completely disappears when the opposing defense decides not to give him space like what we saw when he was against Simmons. Kinda pathetic how ineffective he was when the only defensive assignment against him was to lock him down. They didn't even try to do anything else like trap, deny the passing lane, put a satellite defender against him, etc. It was straight up D.

Man you must be REALLY butt hurt that lin has been relegated to street clothes and will probably never play another meaningful minute in the NBA whil Russell thrives putting up numbers as a 22-23 year old that have basically only been matched by legends and all time greats

I've got a sponsor for the next post you make in this thread

[Prokorov]

Where I'm getting at is basically what happened to Carmelo Anthony and I can see it happening to DLO in a very early stage of his career.

Sign me up for "what happened to carmello anothony" right now...

I'll take a 10-time allstar, career 24/7/3 player who made All-NBA teams 7 times, and has been top 10 in MVP voting 4 times.

yes sign me up for that right now

[Prokorov]

This is getting to Kswiss type of quote level here. We all know how that worked out.
Kind of ridiculous to try to make a hot take for 23-year-old player to be out of the league in 4 years if he is about to get his first massive contract. But Kswiss did say he will be out of the league in 3 years, that was 2 years ago.

Fact is you guys are drinking the kool-aid of the DLO praise. All i'm pointing out is a different perspective that I believe is more plausible than what is being said about him. Not necessarily he'll be out of the league for sure but that's definitely more evident than him being a superstar. I mean I find hilarious t people here literally compare him to a list of hall of fame players. Like do how do you not question that thought process? I mean do those people even watch basketball outside of Nets games? A week back, when we were still playing against the Sixers over the weekend, GSW v. LAC was on right after. From watching both games consecutively, you can easily see the skill level between Steph and Dlo. It wasn't even close whatsoever and we are talking about every facet of there game. The only thing DLO is on par with is his passing ability and you can't even say he was a much better passer than Steph. Yet, you still see people pushing this notion that he is still superstar? really? We then coddle him that he is only 23? It was his first playoff experience? I mean c'mon just be realistic. It just come to the point that we are pushing this guy to be a star because he is a very marketable player and it makes sense due to timeline.

Steph?

Yes, a 23 year old D'angello Russell is not on par with arguably the leagues best player, 2-time MVP, and one of the 5 greatest offensive players to ever live.

I can live with Russell never being on par with Curry.

[MrDollarBills]

The general observation that I made during the Philly series is that Russell was missing a ton of shots around the foul line area that he usually cashes in most of the time:



33% on these attempts. In the regular season he made those shots 50% of the time:



Now I don't have a breakdown of how many of the shots he missed in the Philly series were contested, but based on the eye test he got good separation on a decent chunk of these shots and he was just flat out missing them. Couple that with him shooting 7 of 15 at the rim and 32% from downtown and well, that was it. As stated before, I think the dude had the yips and was just pretty much mentally gone in game 5. That won't be an excuse come next season where the bar and expectations will be raised for this team as a whole. He will have to take this experience and work on making sure he does a complete 180 next time we're in the playoffs.

I expect better going forward, so I really am not going to use his first time in the playoffs as some kind of indictment against him. This season was overall a great step forward, but he's got a ton of work to do this summer on his body and adding to his moveset to take another step in the right direction.

[MrDollarBills]

Where I'm getting at is basically what happened to Carmelo Anthony and I can see it happening to DLO in a very early stage of his career.

Sign me up for "what happened to carmello anothony" right now...

I'll take a 10-time allstar, career 24/7/3 player who made All-NBA teams 7 times, and has been top 10 in MVP voting 4 times.

yes sign me up for that right now

If Russell's ceiling is Carmelo Anthony than the Mozgov/Russell for Lopez trade is going to become a front runner for going down as the worst trade in NBA history.

[Prokorov]

The general observation that I made during the Philly series is that Russell was missing a ton of shots around the foul line area that he usually cashes in most of the time:



33% on these attempts. In the regular season he made those shots 50% of the time:



Now I don't have a breakdown of how many of the shots he missed in the Philly series were contested, but based on the eye test he got good separation on a decent chunk of these shots and he was just flat out missing them. Couple that with him shooting 7 of 15 at the rim and 32% from downtown and well, that was it. As stated before, I think the dude had the yips and was just pretty much mentally gone in game 5. That won't be an excuse come next season where the bar and expectations will be raised for this team as a whole. He will have to take this experience and work on making sure he does a complete 180 next time we're in the playoffs.

I expect better going forward, so I really am not going to use his first time in the playoffs as some kind of indictment against him. This season was overall a great step forward, but he's got a ton of work to do this summer on his body and adding to his moveset to take another step in the right direction.

small sample vs a much more talented team. we need more data, but on the surface inexperience + being cold. same with joe harris.

Levert was super hot shooting. Carroll was off shooting. in 5 games, it goings to be hit or miss.

thats why you need elite talent like kawhi, guys who are just able to do it 99% of the time hot or cold

[DeRoma]

To me, if he continues on to play like he did this season, he'll be out of the league by the end of his next contract.

Trooooolllololololololol.

Kswiss is that you?

wait wait wait... wait....

so if russell signs a 5 year deal, and makes the all-star team 5 straight years. and averages 21/7/4 for 5 straight years, he will be out of the league calling stephon marbury for his connections in china

MJ what do you think about that?

From what I see is a player that is manageable to be the main guy in the regular season but completely disappears when the opposing defense decides not to give him space like what we saw when he was against Simmons. Kinda pathetic how ineffective he was when the only defensive assignment against him was to lock him down. They didn't even try to do anything else like trap, deny the passing lane, put a satellite defender against him, etc. It was straight up D.

Man you must be REALLY butt hurt that lin has been relegated to street clothes and will probably never play another meaningful minute in the NBA whil Russell thrives putting up numbers as a 22-23 year old that have basically only been matched by legends and all time greats

I've got a sponsor for the next post you make in this thread

Marbury is actually a better comparison than Carmelo's career. Yeah i'd go with Starbury comparison career wise.

What's with you lin? First of I'm not a Lin fan. So no idea what you are talking about. I'm actually with you on the Lin cult. He is definitely a bench player. Secondly... It's funny how you continuously hate on the Lin fans because you are starting to sound like a Lin fan but towards Dlo.

i.e. you compare DLO to hall of famers and Lin fans compares him to John Wall.

[DeRoma]

The general observation that I made during the Philly series is that Russell was missing a ton of shots around the foul line area that he usually cashes in most of the time:



33% on these attempts. In the regular season he made those shots 50% of the time:



Now I don't have a breakdown of how many of the shots he missed in the Philly series were contested, but based on the eye test he got good separation on a decent chunk of these shots and he was just flat out missing them. Couple that with him shooting 7 of 15 at the rim and 32% from downtown and well, that was it. As stated before, I think the dude had the yips and was just pretty much mentally gone in game 5. That won't be an excuse come next season where the bar and expectations will be raised for this team as a whole. He will have to take this experience and work on making sure he does a complete 180 next time we're in the playoffs.

I expect better going forward, so I really am not going to use his first time in the playoffs as some kind of indictment against him. This season was overall a great step forward, but he's got a ton of work to do this summer on his body and adding to his moveset to take another step in the right direction.

Obviously it's harder for him to make those shots because playoff defense is a lot more different than regular season defense. When you play teams consecutively. Better scouting, Tighter defense, more talent, can't get away with gimmicks. What we saw are hard evidence of what his capabilities are against higher talent level.

[DeRoma]

This is getting to Kswiss type of quote level here. We all know how that worked out.
Kind of ridiculous to try to make a hot take for 23-year-old player to be out of the league in 4 years if he is about to get his first massive contract. But Kswiss did say he will be out of the league in 3 years, that was 2 years ago.

Fact is you guys are drinking the kool-aid of the DLO praise. All i'm pointing out is a different perspective that I believe is more plausible than what is being said about him. Not necessarily he'll be out of the league for sure but that's definitely more evident than him being a superstar. I mean I find hilarious t people here literally compare him to a list of hall of fame players. Like do how do you not question that thought process? I mean do those people even watch basketball outside of Nets games? A week back, when we were still playing against the Sixers over the weekend, GSW v. LAC was on right after. From watching both games consecutively, you can easily see the skill level between Steph and Dlo. It wasn't even close whatsoever and we are talking about every facet of there game. The only thing DLO is on par with is his passing ability and you can't even say he was a much better passer than Steph. Yet, you still see people pushing this notion that he is still superstar? really? We then coddle him that he is only 23? It was his first playoff experience? I mean c'mon just be realistic. It just come to the point that we are pushing this guy to be a star because he is a very marketable player and it makes sense due to timeline.

Steph?

Yes, a 23 year old D'angello Russell is not on par with arguably the leagues best player, 2-time MVP, and one of the 5 greatest offensive players to ever live.

I can live with Russell never being on par with Curry.

I can live with that as well. The problem is he has a hard time playing with other playmakers along with him. I mean his production goes down tremendously when Dinwiddie or LeVert is next to him. Imagine having Kawhi? What's going to be his excuse then?

If he can play a lick off the ball we wouldn't be having this arguement and I wouldn't be making a hot take of him being out of the league once he is completely expose and have no more room for excuse that you guys are giving him.

Like I said he can keep playing the he has been playing but he doesn't have the skill level or nowhere near the skill level of a top tier player. He needs to completely change his game into a more of a role player type of guy.

[DeRoma]

Where I'm getting at is basically what happened to Carmelo Anthony and I can see it happening to DLO in a very early stage of his career.

Sign me up for "what happened to carmello anothony" right now...

I'll take a 10-time allstar, career 24/7/3 player who made All-NBA teams 7 times, and has been top 10 in MVP voting 4 times.

yes sign me up for that right now

If Russell's ceiling is Carmelo Anthony than the Mozgov/Russell for Lopez trade is going to become a front runner for going down as the worst trade in NBA history.

It was a good trade and Russell have plus value right now. No problem with that. It's the fact, we would never advance out of the first round is my problem.

If we miss out of Kyrie or Kemba I don't mind resigning him as well. I just want it to be a fair value so we can flip him later on.

[MrDollarBills]

The general observation that I made during the Philly series is that Russell was missing a ton of shots around the foul line area that he usually cashes in most of the time:



33% on these attempts. In the regular season he made those shots 50% of the time:



Now I don't have a breakdown of how many of the shots he missed in the Philly series were contested, but based on the eye test he got good separation on a decent chunk of these shots and he was just flat out missing them. Couple that with him shooting 7 of 15 at the rim and 32% from downtown and well, that was it. As stated before, I think the dude had the yips and was just pretty much mentally gone in game 5. That won't be an excuse come next season where the bar and expectations will be raised for this team as a whole. He will have to take this experience and work on making sure he does a complete 180 next time we're in the playoffs.

I expect better going forward, so I really am not going to use his first time in the playoffs as some kind of indictment against him. This season was overall a great step forward, but he's got a ton of work to do this summer on his body and adding to his moveset to take another step in the right direction.

small sample vs a much more talented team. we need more data, but on the surface inexperience + being cold. same with joe harris.

Levert was super hot shooting. Carroll was off shooting. in 5 games, it goings to be hit or miss.

thats why you need elite talent like kawhi, guys who are just able to do it 99% of the time hot or cold

Bingo.

[Prokorov]

i.e. you compare DLO to hall of famers and Lin fans compares him to John Wall.

I did not compare Russell to hall of famers.

The FACTS, with no uncertainty, show that what Russell did at age 22-23 has only been done by 20-25 players ever... and 99% of those players are hall of famers and legends. That is not my comparison, that is the facts speaking.

What is silly, is saying something along the lines of "if russell plays like he did this year for the rest of his contract, he will be out of the league". which is just absurd. like off the wall absurd. when was the last time someone who made 6 straight all-star games was out of the league the next season as a 28-29 year old? because that is basically the claim you are making.

Russell made an enormous leap from year 3 to year 4. inline from what was saw most similarly from bradley beal from year 3-4 at age 22-23.

Russell had a fantastic season for a 22-23 year old player. inline with what only great players have done.

Russell did not have a great 5 game series, as an underdog, vs. philly in his first ever playoff action. that is not at all uncommon. and a 5 game sample should not undo what he showed in an 82 game sample - which is that he can lead a team without a ton of talent and riddled with injuries to a winning record and the playoffs.

Russell has alot to work on. alot of areas of his game can be improved (he isnt great going to his right, finishing in traffic, drawing fouls). Those are all fair criticisms. what isnt fair is knocking the kid because at 23 he isnt a finished product. He hasnt been super efficient... neither has Donovan mitchell. neither have alot of 22-23 year old gaurds with high usage. that will come with improvement, work, and experience.

Saying he will be out of the league is just absurd and hating at a Lin-fan level, which is why i put that label on you. because your comments are on par with Lin-tard type stuff

[Prokorov]

The general observation that I made during the Philly series is that Russell was missing a ton of shots around the foul line area that he usually cashes in most of the time:



33% on these attempts. In the regular season he made those shots 50% of the time:



Now I don't have a breakdown of how many of the shots he missed in the Philly series were contested, but based on the eye test he got good separation on a decent chunk of these shots and he was just flat out missing them. Couple that with him shooting 7 of 15 at the rim and 32% from downtown and well, that was it. As stated before, I think the dude had the yips and was just pretty much mentally gone in game 5. That won't be an excuse come next season where the bar and expectations will be raised for this team as a whole. He will have to take this experience and work on making sure he does a complete 180 next time we're in the playoffs.

I expect better going forward, so I really am not going to use his first time in the playoffs as some kind of indictment against him. This season was overall a great step forward, but he's got a ton of work to do this summer on his body and adding to his moveset to take another step in the right direction.

Obviously it's harder for him to make those shots because playoff defense is a lot more different than regular season defense. When you play teams consecutively. Better scouting, Tighter defense, more talent, can't get away with gimmicks. What we saw are hard evidence of what his capabilities are against higher talent level.

This has no basis in reality, since he took a higher percentage of open mid range shots vs pilly the he did in the regular season... he simply missed them, which isnt uncommon for him as he went through hot and cold streaks from midrange all year over small 5-6 game samples.

there is nothing "gimmick" about taking and making open shots.

[MrDollarBills]

The general observation that I made during the Philly series is that Russell was missing a ton of shots around the foul line area that he usually cashes in most of the time:



33% on these attempts. In the regular season he made those shots 50% of the time:



Now I don't have a breakdown of how many of the shots he missed in the Philly series were contested, but based on the eye test he got good separation on a decent chunk of these shots and he was just flat out missing them. Couple that with him shooting 7 of 15 at the rim and 32% from downtown and well, that was it. As stated before, I think the dude had the yips and was just pretty much mentally gone in game 5. That won't be an excuse come next season where the bar and expectations will be raised for this team as a whole. He will have to take this experience and work on making sure he does a complete 180 next time we're in the playoffs.

I expect better going forward, so I really am not going to use his first time in the playoffs as some kind of indictment against him. This season was overall a great step forward, but he's got a ton of work to do this summer on his body and adding to his moveset to take another step in the right direction.

Obviously it's harder for him to make those shots because playoff defense is a lot more different than regular season defense. When you play teams consecutively. Better scouting, Tighter defense, more talent, can't get away with gimmicks. What we saw are hard evidence of what his capabilities are against higher talent level.

A 5 game sample size isn't hard evidence of anything. Especially coming from a 23 year old. You are being very short sighted and impatient.

Also, a lot of those shots were not a case of where he was trying to pull up with some guy blanketed all over him. He got separation and flat out missed attempts that he usually makes.

Joe Harris, the league's deadliest three point shooter shot 18% from downtown in the playoffs. Is that small sample an indictment of Harris' abilities?