2019 Summer Orlando Magic Free Agency and trade

[ezzzp]

Magic will have 18M in cap space if we do not resign Vuc and Ross. That number could increase if we stretch Mozgov.

I know resign Vuc is the priority.

But could we trade Fournier and sign a Free Agent? Does the logistic work? Can we clear more cap space beyond Vuc and Ross?

I am very interested in Kemba Walker. Walker with Vuc, 2 all stars, pick and roll could be deadly. Coach Clifford was the game changer for Kemba in CHA. So that could be a possibility.

What about Jimmy Butler, Tobias Harris, JJ Reddick, if we clear more cap space?

The Magic could clear up to around $26m in cap room...BUT good free agents never sign to a small market team entering a rebuild - which is what happens the second you lose Vucevic and Ross. Trading Fournier for more cap room just makes it even less likely.

[pepe1991]

Magic will have $18M in cap space with or without Vuc/Ross because they can be signed against cap space, using cap holds on players who played previous season with team . That's why contenders trade for UFA despite their UFA status. Luxury cap is set at $132M so Magic won't come close to that anyway. But it would be above average team in terms of expensivness.

[zaymon]

Our free agency depends on Fultz rehab. We come into 2020 free agency with Gordon 18,1 M, Fournier 17 M, Isaac 7,3 M, Bamba 6M, 2019 rookie 2,5 M. Thats 51 M. Cap projects to be 118M so we have 67 M to spend. Lets say we give Ross 10 M and Vuc with frontloaded deal 22 M so we have 55 M and 7 players. We will have 2019 second round pick, 2020 first and second round pick. I will assume we will pay around 5 M for those. 10 players 50 M to spend. This is still not the year we want to sign a star becouse its a very weak year. Lets assume we sign DJ for 5 M (1 year plus team option) and rest we can sign whoever develops best from Briscoe, Frazier, Justin Jackson, Iwundu(6M) + player from Europe(1M) + bargain free agent (around 8 M)= 20M. So we have 30 M left.
2021 Salary cap goes up 121 M luxury tax at around 146 M
Gordon 16,5 M, Bamba 7,5 M, Vucevic 20 M, Ross 10 M, 3 first round pick= 7M, 3 second round pick- 3M= 64 M and 10 players
Isaac extension
Fultz extension
Now all depends on Isaac and Fultz health and development. We will have around 57 M to salary cap space and 82 M to luxury tax. Lets say Fultz is healthy and reaches his #1 potential and so does Isaac.
Fultz 24 M + Isaac 19 M
Superstar around 35-38 M (Bradley Beal, Paul George, Jayson Tatum, CJ McCollum, Mitchell)

Fultz/veteran minimum/pick
Beal/Ross/pick
Gordon/pick/pick
Isaac/pick
Vucevic/Bamba/pick

Two superstars, 2-3 all stars, solid bench PG with DJ, Bamba coming into his own making Vuc a possible trade target, human torch and lots of wing/guard players on rookie scale contracts.

If Fultz doesny pan out we will have around 65 M to sign 3 players. We would need to trade for some PG and its really hard to predict now We will still decide what to do with Evan Fournier.

Trade/veteran minimum/pick
Beal/Ross/pick
George/pick/pick
Isaac/pick
Vucevic/Bamba/pick

I think we can resign Vucevic around 24 M frontloaded and Ross 12-14 frontloaded and still have room for 2 superstars in 2021.

[Skybox]

Our free agency depends on Fultz rehab. We come into 2020 free agency with Gordon 18,1 M, Fournier 17 M, Isaac 7,3 M, Bamba 6M, 2019 rookie 2,5 M. Thats 51 M. Cap projects to be 118M so we have 67 M to spend. Lets say we give Ross 10 M and Vuc with frontloaded deal 22 M so we have 55 M and 7 players. We will have 2019 second round pick, 2020 first and second round pick. I will assume we will pay around 5 M for those. 10 players 50 M to spend. This is still not the year we want to sign a star becouse its a very weak year. Lets assume we sign DJ for 5 M (1 year plus team option) and rest we can sign whoever develops best from Briscoe, Frazier, Justin Jackson, Iwundu(6M) + player from Europe(1M) + bargain free agent (around 8 M)= 20M. So we have 30 M left.
2021 Salary cap goes up 121 M luxury tax at around 146 M
Gordon 16,5 M, Bamba 7,5 M, Vucevic 20 M, Ross 10 M, 3 first round pick= 7M, 3 second round pick- 3M= 64 M and 10 players
Isaac extension
Fultz extension
Now all depends on Isaac and Fultz health and development. We will have around 57 M to salary cap space and 82 M to luxury tax. Lets say Fultz is healthy and reaches his #1 potential and so does Isaac.
Fultz 24 M + Isaac 19 M
Superstar around 35-38 M (Bradley Beal, Paul George, Jayson Tatum, CJ McCollum, Mitchell)

Fultz/veteran minimum/pick
Beal/Ross/pick
Gordon/pick/pick
Isaac/pick
Vucevic/Bamba/pick

Two superstars, 2-3 all stars, solid bench PG with DJ, Bamba coming into his own making Vuc a possible trade target, human torch and lots of wing/guard players on rookie scale contracts.

If Fultz doesny pan out we will have around 65 M to sign 3 players. We would need to trade for some PG and its really hard to predict now We will still decide what to do with Evan Fournier.

Trade/veteran minimum/pick
Beal/Ross/pick
George/pick/pick
Isaac/pick
Vucevic/Bamba/pick

I think we can resign Vucevic around 24 M frontloaded and Ross 12-14 frontloaded and still have room for 2 superstars in 2021.

I like it. Nothing happening this offseason except Fultz rehab, Bamba protein shakes, and signing Vuc and Ross to sensible, front-loaded deals...ZERO need for cap this offseason anyway, so overpay in first year of 3 year deals to keep them. Next offseason their deals drop, Mozgov and Evan come off the books...Only thing I change is IF a star wing like Beal or McCollum becomes "gettable" for some package of Mozgov, Bamba, picks, Evan (not likely but IF).

[zaymon]

Our free agency depends on Fultz rehab. We come into 2020 free agency with Gordon 18,1 M, Fournier 17 M, Isaac 7,3 M, Bamba 6M, 2019 rookie 2,5 M. Thats 51 M. Cap projects to be 118M so we have 67 M to spend. Lets say we give Ross 10 M and Vuc with frontloaded deal 22 M so we have 55 M and 7 players. We will have 2019 second round pick, 2020 first and second round pick. I will assume we will pay around 5 M for those. 10 players 50 M to spend. This is still not the year we want to sign a star becouse its a very weak year. Lets assume we sign DJ for 5 M (1 year plus team option) and rest we can sign whoever develops best from Briscoe, Frazier, Justin Jackson, Iwundu(6M) + player from Europe(1M) + bargain free agent (around 8 M)= 20M. So we have 30 M left.
2021 Salary cap goes up 121 M luxury tax at around 146 M
Gordon 16,5 M, Bamba 7,5 M, Vucevic 20 M, Ross 10 M, 3 first round pick= 7M, 3 second round pick- 3M= 64 M and 10 players
Isaac extension
Fultz extension
Now all depends on Isaac and Fultz health and development. We will have around 57 M to salary cap space and 82 M to luxury tax. Lets say Fultz is healthy and reaches his #1 potential and so does Isaac.
Fultz 24 M + Isaac 19 M
Superstar around 35-38 M (Bradley Beal, Paul George, Jayson Tatum, CJ McCollum, Mitchell)

Fultz/veteran minimum/pick
Beal/Ross/pick
Gordon/pick/pick
Isaac/pick
Vucevic/Bamba/pick

Two superstars, 2-3 all stars, solid bench PG with DJ, Bamba coming into his own making Vuc a possible trade target, human torch and lots of wing/guard players on rookie scale contracts.

If Fultz doesny pan out we will have around 65 M to sign 3 players. We would need to trade for some PG and its really hard to predict now We will still decide what to do with Evan Fournier.

Trade/veteran minimum/pick
Beal/Ross/pick
George/pick/pick
Isaac/pick
Vucevic/Bamba/pick

I think we can resign Vucevic around 24 M frontloaded and Ross 12-14 frontloaded and still have room for 2 superstars in 2021.

I like it. Nothing happening this offseason except Fultz rehab, Bamba protein shakes, and signing Vuc and Ross to sensible, front-loaded deals...ZERO need for cap this offseason anyway, so overpay in first year of 3 year deals to keep them. Next offseason their deals drop, Mozgov and Evan come off the books...Only thing I change is IF a star wing like Beal or McCollum becomes "gettable" for some package of Mozgov, Bamba, picks, Evan (not likely but IF).

Timetable is:
2019 Vucevic 24 M Ross 14M,
2020 Vucevic 22M, Ross 12M; Mozgov, DJ deals expire
2021 Vucevic 20M, Ross 10M, Fournier deal expire, Isaac, Fultz extension

Every milion less on Vucevic and Ross means one more milion above 32 a piece for 2 superstars. If Fultz plays like a superstar we we can sign him for around 25- 28 million depending if he makes all nba (not likely)

[fendilim]

I think for the Magic to go forward we have to move away from a Vuc centered offense and committing to Vuc could lead to similar results for a couple more years. For replacements, I'd STRONGLY consider Nerlens as a potential high value for cost center now. This guy is entering the prime of his career in age, learned this year he has to take a minor role sometimes for the good of the team, and after his pay day debacle I think if we can lock him into a decent long term deal he'd take. May 4/28 for Nerlen's can be done?


After that, the Magic desperately need a back up PF and SG. Maybe Jamychel Green can be had? I'm worried he'd be too expensive though, he played really well this year. I'd try to get SG through the draft. As much as I want a PG, I'd be worried we're clogging there now. I feel reasonably good about DJ, Markelle, MCW, Briscoe next year. This of course means we need to sign MCW to a deal Maybe a 2 year 6 million? Drafting NAW, Coby White, would be a win. In the 2nd round maybe pick up a Center than Pick & Roll well?

(Markelle/DJ) / (Markelle/DJ) / MCW / Briscoe
Fournier / NAW / MCW
Isaac / Iwundu/ MCW
AG / Green
Nerlens / Bamba

We run the offense more through Markelle (provided he's healthy) & AG next year. I think Nerlen's could help take us to another level defensively. Green would really solidify the 2nd unit next year and DJ could fill in the scoring role that Ross had this year.

I'd see if we can do 4/28 for Nerlens, 3/27 for Green, 2/6 for MCW.

I like the idea of moving forward without Vuc if there's a realistic alternative option.

Replacing Vuc with Nerlens would be one of he worst thing we can make. It was evident that the whole playoffs, the lack of spacing hindered our team. As bad as Vuc played during the playoffs, Nerlens would even be less of a factor. Not to mention, you cant even pair him with Iwundu because it makes the court even smaller.

[zaymon]

I think for the Magic to go forward we have to move away from a Vuc centered offense and committing to Vuc could lead to similar results for a couple more years. For replacements, I'd STRONGLY consider Nerlens as a potential high value for cost center now. This guy is entering the prime of his career in age, learned this year he has to take a minor role sometimes for the good of the team, and after his pay day debacle I think if we can lock him into a decent long term deal he'd take. May 4/28 for Nerlen's can be done?


After that, the Magic desperately need a back up PF and SG. Maybe Jamychel Green can be had? I'm worried he'd be too expensive though, he played really well this year. I'd try to get SG through the draft. As much as I want a PG, I'd be worried we're clogging there now. I feel reasonably good about DJ, Markelle, MCW, Briscoe next year. This of course means we need to sign MCW to a deal Maybe a 2 year 6 million? Drafting NAW, Coby White, would be a win. In the 2nd round maybe pick up a Center than Pick & Roll well?

(Markelle/DJ) / (Markelle/DJ) / MCW / Briscoe
Fournier / NAW / MCW
Isaac / Iwundu/ MCW
AG / Green
Nerlens / Bamba

We run the offense more through Markelle (provided he's healthy) & AG next year. I think Nerlen's could help take us to another level defensively. Green would really solidify the 2nd unit next year and DJ could fill in the scoring role that Ross had this year.

I'd see if we can do 4/28 for Nerlens, 3/27 for Green, 2/6 for MCW.

I like the idea of moving forward without Vuc if there's a realistic alternative option.

Replacing Vuc with Nerlens would be one of he worst thing we can make. It was evident that the whole playoffs, the lack of spacing hindered our team. As bad as Vuc played during the playoffs, Nerlens would even be less of a factor. Not to mention, you cant even pair him with Iwundu because it makes the court even smaller.

Not mentioning Isaac and Gordon who play together mainly becouse Vuc became good shooter.

[MagicFan101]

I fully expect our roster to be basically exactly what it was at the end of this season with the exception of our new draft pick and shuffling the deck with names like Birch and Briscoe possible leaving.

But that doesn’t mean we go out with the same team next year ...

Just look at Isaac season 2 versus season 1. What if Bamba offers a similar jump? Hell, even if not what if he simply stays healthy and is fit enough to play more minutes?

Fultz is obviously a key factor. We all understand the potential for impact there.

Given our needs at the wing and the depth at that spot in this draft, I fully expect at least a quality rotation player at that spot from the draft.

Should be strong incremental improvements to the depth chart for what was already a playoff team.

[OrlandO]

Magic will have 18M in cap space if we do not resign Vuc and Ross.

I believe we'd have to renounce Vuc, Ross, Birch, MCW, Iwundu (and obviously Grant, Martin) to create that 18m. Basically everyone that's not locked in. Taking on Fultz significantly reduced our potential cap.

[Cosmic_Backlash]

I think for the Magic to go forward we have to move away from a Vuc centered offense and committing to Vuc could lead to similar results for a couple more years. For replacements, I'd STRONGLY consider Nerlens as a potential high value for cost center now. This guy is entering the prime of his career in age, learned this year he has to take a minor role sometimes for the good of the team, and after his pay day debacle I think if we can lock him into a decent long term deal he'd take. May 4/28 for Nerlen's can be done?


After that, the Magic desperately need a back up PF and SG. Maybe Jamychel Green can be had? I'm worried he'd be too expensive though, he played really well this year. I'd try to get SG through the draft. As much as I want a PG, I'd be worried we're clogging there now. I feel reasonably good about DJ, Markelle, MCW, Briscoe next year. This of course means we need to sign MCW to a deal Maybe a 2 year 6 million? Drafting NAW, Coby White, would be a win. In the 2nd round maybe pick up a Center than Pick & Roll well?

(Markelle/DJ) / (Markelle/DJ) / MCW / Briscoe
Fournier / NAW / MCW
Isaac / Iwundu/ MCW
AG / Green
Nerlens / Bamba

We run the offense more through Markelle (provided he's healthy) & AG next year. I think Nerlen's could help take us to another level defensively. Green would really solidify the 2nd unit next year and DJ could fill in the scoring role that Ross had this year.

I'd see if we can do 4/28 for Nerlens, 3/27 for Green, 2/6 for MCW.

I like the idea of moving forward without Vuc if there's a realistic alternative option.

Replacing Vuc with Nerlens would be one of he worst thing we can make. It was evident that the whole playoffs, the lack of spacing hindered our team. As bad as Vuc played during the playoffs, Nerlens would even be less of a factor. Not to mention, you cant even pair him with Iwundu because it makes the court even smaller.

Not mentioning Isaac and Gordon who play together mainly becouse Vuc became good shooter.

I thoroughly disagree. The Vuc's offense didn't hold anything together. The magic in the playoffs have taken on average the 2nd most spot up shots and are near the bottom in isolation & post ups. The magic put no pressure on the defense and was instead entirely reliant on pick and rolls and catch spot up shots. Sensationalizing that Vuc is some kind of glue that held any semblance of offense together isn't being authentic. The magic offense is bad not because of spacing issues, it's bad because it's predictable and has no dynamic elements to it.

[fendilim]

I like the idea of moving forward without Vuc if there's a realistic alternative option.

Replacing Vuc with Nerlens would be one of he worst thing we can make. It was evident that the whole playoffs, the lack of spacing hindered our team. As bad as Vuc played during the playoffs, Nerlens would even be less of a factor. Not to mention, you cant even pair him with Iwundu because it makes the court even smaller.

Not mentioning Isaac and Gordon who play together mainly becouse Vuc became good shooter.

I thoroughly disagree. The Vuc's offense didn't hold anything together. The magic in the playoffs have taken on average the 2nd most spot up shots and are near the bottom in isolation & post ups. The magic put no pressure on the defense and was instead entirely reliant on pick and rolls and catch spot up shots. Sensationalizing that Vuc is some kind of glue that held any semblance of offense together isn't being authentic. The magic offense is bad not because of spacing issues, it's bad because it's predictable and has no dynamic elements to it.

If you think Our offense is predicatable now, its gonna be more predictable with Nerlens. Cause he cant score. Lol

[zaymon]

I like the idea of moving forward without Vuc if there's a realistic alternative option.

Replacing Vuc with Nerlens would be one of he worst thing we can make. It was evident that the whole playoffs, the lack of spacing hindered our team. As bad as Vuc played during the playoffs, Nerlens would even be less of a factor. Not to mention, you cant even pair him with Iwundu because it makes the court even smaller.

Not mentioning Isaac and Gordon who play together mainly becouse Vuc became good shooter.

I thoroughly disagree. The Vuc's offense didn't hold anything together. The magic in the playoffs have taken on average the 2nd most spot up shots and are near the bottom in isolation & post ups. The magic put no pressure on the defense and was instead entirely reliant on pick and rolls and catch spot up shots. Sensationalizing that Vuc is some kind of glue that held any semblance of offense together isn't being authentic. The magic offense is bad not because of spacing issues, it's bad because it's predictable and has no dynamic elements to it.

Orlando choose to not use Vucevic as a 3 point threat much that series, but it doesnt mean he cant do it. What can bring Noel to that stangnat offense you are talking about ? We use Vucevic in such a way becouse we dont have dynamic, agressive perimeter creator. Clifford even said he wants Vucevic to shoot more 3's next season, good luck with Noel.

[pepe1991]

Noel is slight improvment over Biyombo and probably not even upgrade over Birch.
After draft hype and "untapped potential" based on nothing but draft stock, all that is left is skinny, undersized, challenged big man without almost any basketball skills.

It's beyond me how somebody can enter nba being 190 pounds, standing at 6'10, and through 6 years can't add 20-25 pounds. It simply yells " lazy, doesn't give a damn" because if you are too lazy to eat , how are you going to do anything else to improve?

[tiderulz]

Noel is slight improvment over Biyombo and probably not even upgrade over Birch.
After draft hype and "untapped potential" based on nothing but draft stock, all that is left is skinny, undersized, challenged big man without almost any basketball skills.

It's beyond me how somebody can enter nba being 190 pounds, standing at 6'10, and through 6 years can't add 20-25 pounds. It simply yells " lazy, doesn't give a damn" because if you are too lazy to eat , how are you going to do anything else to improve?

its beyond me how he didnt sign that offered extension. his agent didnt do his job.

[Skybox]

how somebody can enter nba being 190 pounds, standing at 6'10, and through 6 years can't add 20-25 pounds. It simply yells " lazy, doesn't give a damn" because if you are too lazy to eat , how are you going to do anything else to improve?

its beyond me how he didnt sign that offered extension. his agent didnt do his job.

You can't say he didn't try...dude was eating hot dogs on the bench

[pepe1991]

Noel is slight improvment over Biyombo and probably not even upgrade over Birch.
After draft hype and "untapped potential" based on nothing but draft stock, all that is left is skinny, undersized, challenged big man without almost any basketball skills.

It's beyond me how somebody can enter nba being 190 pounds, standing at 6'10, and through 6 years can't add 20-25 pounds. It simply yells " lazy, doesn't give a damn" because if you are too lazy to eat , how are you going to do anything else to improve?

its beyond me how he didnt sign that offered extension. his agent didnt do his job.

I know right?!

Dude is backup C at best.

[MagicMatic]

I like the idea of moving forward without Vuc if there's a realistic alternative option.

Replacing Vuc with Nerlens would be one of he worst thing we can make. It was evident that the whole playoffs, the lack of spacing hindered our team. As bad as Vuc played during the playoffs, Nerlens would even be less of a factor. Not to mention, you cant even pair him with Iwundu because it makes the court even smaller.

Not mentioning Isaac and Gordon who play together mainly becouse Vuc became good shooter.

I thoroughly disagree. The Vuc's offense didn't hold anything together. The magic in the playoffs have taken on average the 2nd most spot up shots and are near the bottom in isolation & post ups. The magic put no pressure on the defense and was instead entirely reliant on pick and rolls and catch spot up shots. Sensationalizing that Vuc is some kind of glue that held any semblance of offense together isn't being authentic. The magic offense is bad not because of spacing issues, it's bad because it's predictable and has no dynamic elements to it.

Exactly. It’s not that Vucs production isn't viable. It’s because it’s the only production Orlando has relied upon and has become unsustainable. Relying on internal development alone, from players that haven’t proven to be reliable offensively, changes nothing from last year. Orlando would be middling in the east depending on circumstances and the development of other teams.

That being said, Orlando should either bring back Vuc AND Ross or go in an entirely different direction. That’s the choice the FO has to make. I’m partial to the latter because outside of making the playoffs nothing about this team was fun or interesting to watch. Not only that, but even on a front loaded deal we are betting on multiple years on the exponential development of Isaac, Fultz, Bamba, and #16. Maybe that’s a good bet. I’m not as confident.

Vuc has been here for almost a decade. I’m ready to move away from watching a slow and predictable offense while the young guys have to find ways to constantly accommodate.

Outside of the Vuc discussion, I would like Orlando to try and take a shot at Brogdon or Lamb without a massive overpay.

[MasterGMer]

If both Kemba and Orlando want to make it work, is everything else just logistics? We can make it work with Vuc resigning, right? Sign and Trade? Our 16th pick + Fournier to get us Kemba?

[pepe1991]

If both Kemba and Orlando want to make it work, is everything else just logistics? We can make it work with Vuc resigning, right? Sign and Trade? Our 16th pick + Fournier to get us Kemba?

It would be odd decision for Kemba, to say a least.
He can get from other teams twice as much or chance to win title. Or both.

[MasterGMer]

If both Kemba and Orlando want to make it work, is everything else just logistics? We can make it work with Vuc resigning, right? Sign and Trade? Our 16th pick + Fournier to get us Kemba?

It would be odd decision for Kemba, to say a least.
He can get from other teams twice as much or chance to win title. Or both.

So will be the same case too for Mavs. They are rebuilding too.

Coach Clifford was his fav mentor and pair him up with another all star Vuc may sound attractive.