WCSF | (1) Golden State Warriors vs (4) Houston Rockets, Part Two (Series tied 2-2)

[og15]

Rockets lost when they started focusing on the refs instead of the ball game

This is very simplistic. There was little related to the refs in game 2. The Rockets lost because they turned it over too much early and they couldn’t secure defensive rebounds.

[java051997]

The Rockets system is based on lots of threes and shot at the rim, with minimal ball movement. Their strategy is to limit turnovers by limiting passing. That system has yet to prove workable against playoff defenses.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS_PCT&dir=1

Houston iso’s More than anybody else in the playoffs.

Then why they do have a lot of turnovers?

[Fedor]

Rockets lost when they started focusing on the refs instead of the ball game

This is very simplistic. There was little related to the refs in game 2. The Rockets lost because they turned it over too much early and they couldn’t secure defensive rebounds.

When your own management is tweeting out reports from last years finals its basically giving your own players an escape route for a loss. “Oh we could of won man but you know those damn refs wont call nothing for me man ya.”
Focus on what you can control and thats on the court playing ball (defense, rebounds, switches etc)

[cdubbz]

Congrats to the Rockets for setting basketball back, I dunno, to when it was impossibly bad to watch. Golden State has only been somewhat better.

This series is the absolute worst and I hope whomever comes out of Denver/Portland sends the winner back to hell where they belong.

I'm sure Portland or Denver will send the Warriors straight to where they belong...the NBA Finals.

I still see the fun out of this series. Rockets defense has been solid and body up the Warrjora more than most teams. it's fun to watch warriors dissect that

[TaylorTRoom]

The Rockets system is based on lots of threes and shot at the rim, with minimal ball movement. Their strategy is to limit turnovers by limiting passing. That system has yet to prove workable against playoff defenses.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS_PCT&dir=1

Houston iso’s More than anybody else in the playoffs.

Then why they do have a lot of turnovers?

Because the GS playoff defense (the real secret to their success) is forcing them to pass more than they would like. And they’re not good at it.

Look at game 1 where Tucker had 0 points. He did the same he always did- go to the baseline corner and wait for the defense to leave him open for a 3PA. Except they never did leave him open.

[GusFring]

The Rockets system is based on lots of threes and shot at the rim, with minimal ball movement. Their strategy is to limit turnovers by limiting passing. That system has yet to prove workable against playoff defenses.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS_PCT&dir=1

Houston iso’s More than anybody else in the playoffs.

Then why they do have a lot of turnovers?

Because the GS playoff defense (the real secret to their success) is forcing them to pass more than they would like. And they’re not good at it.

Look at game 1 where Tucker had 0 points. He did the same he always did- go to the baseline corner and wait for the defense to leave him open for a 3PA. Except they never did leave him open.

Rockets prey on stupider teams, the warriors haven't fallen for their crap at all this post season. Its great.

[Dupp]

What happened to harden in game 2? How long was he off injured and what’s it got to do with his vision? Eye poke?

[og15]

Rockets lost when they started focusing on the refs instead of the ball game

This is very simplistic. There was little related to the refs in game 2. The Rockets lost because they turned it over too much early and they couldn’t secure defensive rebounds.

When your own management is tweeting out reports from last years finals its basically giving your own players an escape route for a loss. “Oh we could of won man but you know those damn refs wont call nothing for me man ya.”
Focus on what you can control and thats on the court playing ball (defense, rebounds, switches etc)

Who said they weren't focused? They didn't look unfocused. Also does focusing just make them automatically destined to beat GS? What if GS is focused too, should Houston win because they are focused?

You think the players are saying "oh we won't focus because we can use the refs as an excuse if we lose". Just sounds like the convenient type comments that come based on end result. It is pure conjecture type analysis that anyone can just basically make up to match the end result. If they won the game, one could make up another conjecture type analysis like this about the Warriors, "oh if the Warriors were not so worried about reacting the the Rockets complaints and focused they wouldn't have lost".

[Fedor]

This is very simplistic. There was little related to the refs in game 2. The Rockets lost because they turned it over too much early and they couldn’t secure defensive rebounds.

When your own management is tweeting out reports from last years finals its basically giving your own players an escape route for a loss. “Oh we could of won man but you know those damn refs wont call nothing for me man ya.”
Focus on what you can control and thats on the court playing ball (defense, rebounds, switches etc)

Who said they weren't focused? They didn't look unfocused. Also does focusing just make them automatically destined to beat GS? What if GS is focused too, should Houston win because they are focused?

You think the players are saying "oh we won't focus because we can use the refs as an excuse if we lose". Just sounds like the convenient type comments that come based on end result. It is pure conjecture type analysis that anyone can just basically make up to match the end result. If they won the game, one could make up another conjecture type analysis like this about the Warriors, "oh if the Warriors were not so worried about reacting the the Rockets complaints and focused they wouldn't have lost".

You’re being cheeky thats great.

Listen one teams management is running a campaign on the unfairness of ref calls about LAST years finals while the players are on the court are doing the same thing. You got your leader bumping refs getting ejected, sarcastically celebrating a foul call. They’re playing 2 fields right now while the warriors are locked in on one goal. You spread out your energy on things you cannot control you’re bound to lose. Don’t overcomplicate this its simple

[kb24k]

Can anyone buy tickets for game 3? It's not working for me...

[freethedevil]

How he compares to iggy isn't all that relevant. What amtters is his value to his own team. Given he was their best wing defender, and it was shoddy wing d that allowed the warriors to smash them in 2 of 3 games, i think that's very relevant.

Ulitimately the version of the rockets the warriors were a farcry from their 65 win selves.

I'll agree to disagree on Iggy. We were specifically mentioning him, so I think it is quite relevant.

Really?

If we're getting to the point where your comparing a Mbah a moute loss to Iggy, then yeah people will bring up the fact that Curry wasn't 100%, and neither was McCaw.

Luc was the best wing defender on the Rockets last year, their third best 3 point shooter by %, and their best playmaker behind Harden and Paul. Their best lineups last year always included him. So sure he's not Iggy, but he was the 5th guy for the Rockets just like Iggy was the 5th for the Warriors. It was a big loss for them.

So IOW, people who think the 2018 warriors would have won in 5 vs a 65 win team were being very stupid.

[dantheman74]

Glad to see these two teams taking it seriously, a bit of eye gouging and some dislocated fingers. They both want it bad. The rest of the league needs to wake up a bit and get a little more physical, looking at you Baynes, Horford & Morris. Giannis can't shoot, don't let him slither to the basket without getting smacked.

[michaelm]

I'll agree to disagree on Iggy. We were specifically mentioning him, so I think it is quite relevant.




If we're getting to the point where your comparing a Mbah a moute loss to Iggy, then yeah people will bring up the fact that Curry wasn't 100%, and neither was McCaw.

Luc was the best wing defender on the Rockets last year, their third best 3 point shooter by %, and their best playmaker behind Harden and Paul. Their best lineups last year always included him. So sure he's not Iggy, but he was the 5th guy for the Rockets just like Iggy was the 5th for the Warriors. It was a big loss for them.

So IOW, people who think the 2018 warriors would have won in 5 vs a 65 win team were being very stupid.

Any opinion about what would have happened absent the injuries to either team is probably stupid given this is unknowable.

[Percentsign]

What happened to harden in game 2? How long was he off injured and what’s it got to do with his vision? Eye poke?

Got poked in the eye by Draymond accidentally in the first quarter.

[ken6199]

When your own management is tweeting out reports from last years finals its basically giving your own players an escape route for a loss. “Oh we could of won man but you know those damn refs wont call nothing for me man ya.”
Focus on what you can control and thats on the court playing ball (defense, rebounds, switches etc)

Who said they weren't focused? They didn't look unfocused. Also does focusing just make them automatically destined to beat GS? What if GS is focused too, should Houston win because they are focused?

You think the players are saying "oh we won't focus because we can use the refs as an excuse if we lose". Just sounds like the convenient type comments that come based on end result. It is pure conjecture type analysis that anyone can just basically make up to match the end result. If they won the game, one could make up another conjecture type analysis like this about the Warriors, "oh if the Warriors were not so worried about reacting the the Rockets complaints and focused they wouldn't have lost".

You’re being cheeky thats great.

Listen one teams management is running a campaign on the unfairness of ref calls about LAST years finals while the players are on the court are doing the same thing. You got your leader bumping refs getting ejected, sarcastically celebrating a foul call. They’re playing 2 fields right now while the warriors are locked in on one goal. You spread out your energy on things you cannot control you’re bound to lose. Don’t overcomplicate this its simple

What is so cheeky about his post? I don't get it.

Listen, this is the point we need to all get off our high horses and call a spade a spade. It's all great and refreshing to see Draymond come out and say oh lets all focus on the game worry less about the referee, you win, you say wonderful things about the world, I get it, but it's not like Draymond is not one of those guys who do the most complaining on the court. Where was that mentality when he did that? If he wants to act all high and almighty, he needs to hold himself to a high standard first. Same way I look at Harden: don't bitch the referee if you choose to play that way, you live with the result.

You don't need to come out and educate us all those simple basics. I have no problem admitting that Houston is a controversial organization with edgy philosophy playing an ugly brand of basketball. They act like cowards after game 1 by sending this report to the league, it was really a weak mentality. Nobody like them, everybody hate the style they play, and this is the perfect time to let that displeasure out of your chest. Count the first 5 pages of this thread, number of Rockets fans posting: 1 (me), number of Warriors fans posting: 17. Where were those Warriors posters in the Clippers thread when everyone was rooting for the Clippers? Where are those Rockets fans now who used to non stop post Harden chanting songs in the MVP thread everytime he drops a 50? Nowhere to be found. It's human nature. But 99 people saying one thing doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

"They are playing 2 fields right now while the warriors are locked in on one goal". It's easy to say that when a team is 2-0 up. The reality is both teams were pretty bad in game 1, non stop complaining and bitching. Both teams were bad in regular season too, two of the most annoying teams in terms of complaining and bitching. Warriors are locked in on one goal now - to 3 peat. Rockets are locked in on one goal too - to first overcome the Warriors, and they are so locked in that they felt the need to try other methodologies to compensate the fact that they are inferior in talent. You don't have to agree with their methodologies, honestly I don't agree with those two, but they are just desperately trying to gain an edge. Who are you to say they spend half of their energy trying to voice their displeasure which they could have spent on the game and they might have won? How do you know that? Having a team of staff working on a video means players are not locked in on the court? Did Harden complain about the refs in game 2? He didn't say **** after getting eye poked by Green. He just shut up and balled out. Didn't he shoot the ball as well as Durant? Didn't he score 29 while missing most of the 1st quarter, and even with a blurry vision, he picked up the assignment of defending KD? Why hardly there is anyone talking about the positives? Right, because they are the target right now, it feels great to continue to pile on, and it feels wrong to give them any credit.

The fact is both team played a clean game 2, and that's what we should be talking about because that deserves talking more than anything. Curry came through a finger injury, and Harden played with blurry vision. The players moved on, I tried to move on too after creating a stupid thread yesterday, yet guys like you still feel the need to dwell on this and act on our high horses to educate others what's right and what's wrong. Those are the basic 101 stuff, we all get it, like you said, Don’t overcomplicate this its simple. They players tried, they came up short, but they didn't lose because "they spent some energy outside the game which they could have used to focus on the game itself".

To add - I am not just targeting this response at you. It's more of a response to the general atmosphere in this thread, where GS posters flood in and Houston ones decided to hide away when things get tough. What's done is done, both bitching expert teams cleaned up their act in game 2, give them some applause, and focus on game 3.

[ken6199]

The Rockets system is based on lots of threes and shot at the rim, with minimal ball movement. Their strategy is to limit turnovers by limiting passing. That system has yet to prove workable against playoff defenses.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS_PCT&dir=1

Houston iso’s More than anybody else in the playoffs.

Then why they do have a lot of turnovers?

Because the GS playoff defense (the real secret to their success) is forcing them to pass more than they would like. And they’re not good at it.

Look at game 1 where Tucker had 0 points. He did the same he always did- go to the baseline corner and wait for the defense to leave him open for a 3PA. Except they never did leave him open.

It's not that simple. You cannot just contest lock down Harden in the paint and not leave the shooters open. GS defended very much differently than Utah. They deployed double team on him out on the perimeter, then they hedged back quickly to cover the passing lane. They gave Harden easier looks (which is particularly clear in game 2 as he shot the ball very well), but they took away the shooters especially the corner 3s. It's not as simple as "they never leave him open".

"That system has yet to prove workable against playoff defenses." we are just talking nonsense now? This is also something easy for you to say to a team who just lost 2 games. 2 close games by the way, in which they shot the ball reasonably well. If a team went to the WCF, had two 4-1 series wins and took GS to game 7, then that means their system is damn well working. They just beat Utah a league top 2 defense who threw all kinds of gimmicks at them, and it's been working too. You don't have to appreciate the way they play, but with the players they have, that system is proven to be working against some of the best playoff defenses.

[ken6199]

I think we saw the complaining of the refs really hurt the Rockets. They completely forgot about getting Clint Capela involved in the offense with his high FG% and rebounding. That said, the Warriors had too many weapons and were playing nice rotating defense in game 2. Andrew Bogut did not have to get involved. Despite all this, the Warriors have only held serve and home court advantage. What will be telling is game 3. If the Warriors can step up what they have been doing by cutting down turnovers and continue shooting inside and getting to the line, then they should be able to really put their foot on the throats of the Rockets.

1) They did not forget about Capela, the fact is Capela is different this year if you watch his games. He is a lot slower on the perimeter, which means we shouldn't be playing with all these switches anymore. He got killed a couple of times by Curry and Klay on the perimeter, and for a confidence driven young player, he lost his energy on the offense too. You also have Draymond who read Harden's lob game perfectly. I remember one play where Draymond did a fake step up to first take away Harden's floater, then quickly sagged back once Harden hit that lob to Capela. Klay had a similar play where he read the lob and intercepted with a steal. Those are hard working defenders who also out smarted us. They studied last years WCF where Capela thrived, so they game planned it and took him out of the game. So it's more credit to them, less of "they forgot about Capela because they complained too much to the refs".

2) Cutting down turnovers - it applies to both teams. It's actually more possible for Houston who is more ISO heavy and less turnover. GS ranked 10th in most turnovers per game in the regular season, Houston 25th. Houston ranked 7th in opponent turnover rate because of their all switch defense, GS 18th. If anything, I see Houston continue to crank up their defensive intensity in game 3, more rebounding effort, and force GS even more turnovers. Utah is a perfect example - they went back home, delivered a huge game, unfortunately Mitchell missed that shot at the end. Even that Utah came out strong in game 4 knowing they could compete. After all, Utah got blown out by 30s in two games and Houston narrowly lost 2. I certainly doubt they will lie down and let their throat stepped on.

[TaylorTRoom]

Fair enough, Ken6199. It is too early to say the Rockets system won’t work in the playoffs. Although I do like the GS system better.

[Prizah]

Is there a 2 minute report for game 2?
I'm just curious about the foul they called on Iggy when him and Tucker went for that long pass.

[ken6199]

Anyone who appreciate the basketball as a sport like their system better, including myself, and I am sure most of the other Rockets fans. We work with what we have, we have no control of what approach our GM and organization choose on/off the court. Just a bunch of die hard fans rooting for our team to win a hell difficult series 4 out of the past 5 years.