2018-19 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[No-more-rings]

I don't recall either of these.

The pictures of his eye have been everywhere. Stunned anyone could have missed that. Especially since he had to come out of the game as a result.


And no question Harden's post-season so far hasn't measured up to his RS, but considering just how absurd his RS was, I'm not seeing how he could tumble all the way out of the top 5. Even if Jokic and Kawhi keep this up and make runs to at least the conference Finals its hard to see both Curry and Durant able to pass Harden to get him all the way down to 6(Giannis obviously the other top 5 lock).

I fell asleep during game 2. That doesn't change his performance at all prior to it. The only thing i can find on his wrist was well before the playoffs even started.

Either way, there's no excuses when playoff under-performance is a trend for him.

[Texas Chuck]

Either way, there's no excuses when playoff under-performance is a trend for him.

I'm not making excuses for him. Was responding to your post that no I can't see him dropping out of my top 5 based on his playoffs so far.

[No-more-rings]

Either way, there's no excuses when playoff under-performance is a trend for him.

I'm not making excuses for him. Was responding to your post that no I can't see him dropping out of my top 5 based on his playoffs so far.

I think it's a possibility is all, and i know how people like to overreact so it's almost certain he will for at least a few.

[Colbinii]

Either way, there's no excuses when playoff under-performance is a trend for him.

I'm not making excuses for him. Was responding to your post that no I can't see him dropping out of my top 5 based on his playoffs so far.

I think it's a possibility is all, and i know how people like to overreact so it's almost certain he will for at least a few.

The Rockets faced the most difficult round 1 opponent out of all teams who advanced and then BY FAR the best round 2 opponent.

[Krodis]

I'm not making excuses for him. Was responding to your post that no I can't see him dropping out of my top 5 based on his playoffs so far.

I think it's a possibility is all, and i know how people like to overreact so it's almost certain he will for at least a few.

The Rockets faced the most difficult round 1 opponent out of all teams who advanced and then BY FAR the best round 2 opponent.

Yeah, if you take the average strength of opponent so far in the playoffs for the people in the discussion, Harden has played FAR tougher competition than anyone else.

[iggymcfrack]

I feel like Giannis has solidified his position at #1 with his postseason so far, but behind him there are a lot of guys that are really close. Harden has to be #2 still after his big performance tonight notching the series at two. He could easily slip if he doesn’t play well the rest of the series though. Kawhi Leonard’s been the best player of the postseason after a mediocre RS. 32.2 PER and a ridiculous on/off of +45.3. Can you really blame him for treating the regular season like “82 practices” ( or less) if this is what he has in reserve? He’s still very much in contention for the top spot if he can clearly outplay Giannis in the ECF. Durant was probably 5th after the regular season and has been much better in the postseason. Jokic was not too far behind Durant in the RS and has been even better than him in the postseason. Probably second most dominant player of the playoffs. And that’s not even getting into Embiid, Steph, and Dame who all have plenty of chances to greatly improve their spot or Paul George who was clearly a Top 3 regular season player and did all he could for being injured and having to deal with Russ. It’s really quite a race this year.

[Eskobar13]

Unless Kawhi keeps this up all the way to the finals I think Giannis more or less has this in the bag.

I can't see him completely crumble against anyone - he's giving me Lebron 08-10 vibes (obviously not as dynamic a player), with the difference that his team is a lot better. Seems like he'll just find a way to will himself into positions to make plays for him or his teammates and his defense is very good.

KD could make a case but I doubt it. Harden is also still in it if they beat the Warriors but right now I have him a considerable distance away from Giannis.

[Colbinii]

Unless Kawhi keeps this up all the way to the finals I think Giannis more or less has this in the bag.

I can't see him completely crumble against anyone - he's giving me Lebron 08-10 vibes (obviously not as dynamic a player), with the difference that his team is a lot better. Seems like he'll just find a way to will himself into positions to make plays for him or his teammates and his defense is very good.

KD could make a case but I doubt it. Harden is also still in it if they beat the Warriors but right now I have him a considerable distance away from Giannis.

To be fair to Harden both of his opponents are better than Boston.

[HeartBreakKid]

I'm probably giving my vote to Kawhi so far - I don't really care if he was resting games during the RS, what you get in the post season is a lot more important.

And really Kawhi was not bad at all during the RS...I don't get the knock on him.

[Jaivl]

I'm probably giving my vote to Kawhi so far - I don't really care if he was resting games during the RS, what you get in the post season is a lot more important.

And really Kawhi was not bad at all during the RS...I don't get the knock on him.

That he's shooting at an unsustainable level so he's guaranteed to drop, wasn't top 10 on the RS and the playoffs are far from over.

[eminence]

Not all in on Kawhi at all. Had a very meh RS, then a 1st round that didn't matter to me any more than RS games. Played great in 5 second round games to date, but they haven't even closed the series out yet, lol.

[inDe_eD]

Man, I'd love to see the chaos and fallout from Kawhi cruising to a championship this year with the Raps. I certainly don't think it's a guarantee at this point, but wouldn't that be something to watch here (to a lesser extent) and in the wider media? So much crow would have to be eaten.

[Jaivl]

Man, I'd love to see the chaos and fallout from Kawhi cruising to a championship this year with the Raps. I certainly don't think it's a guarantee at this point, but wouldn't that be something to watch here (to a lesser extent) and in the wider media? So much crow would have to be eaten.

Oh I'm hoping so too. Them or the Bucks. Or the Rockets... anybody but GS, really.

[HeartBreakKid]

I'm probably giving my vote to Kawhi so far - I don't really care if he was resting games during the RS, what you get in the post season is a lot more important.

And really Kawhi was not bad at all during the RS...I don't get the knock on him.

That he's shooting at an unsustainable level so he's guaranteed to drop, wasn't top 10 on the RS and the playoffs are far from over.

He's at 31 points on 70 TS% - even if he falls off he can still be the most dominant PS player - plus he is playing very well even outside of scoring. Last game was a 'bad' game for him scoring wise, and he was still quite good.

The playoffs are not over so it can change of course, but as of now, Leonard would be my vote. I'm not really convinced anyone is currently better than him.

[O_6]

As of right now, I'd have it like this...

1. Giannis

- Simply dominant season so far, extending lead on Harden during the playoffs while still ahead of Kawhi/Durant. He's not as offensively diverse as the 3 guys behind him which could ultimately lose him this #1 spot, but he's the most consistently dominant 2-way player of the bunch while scoring at will despite being "predictable" on offense.

2. Harden
3. Kawhi
4. Durant

- Kawhi/Durant have clearly passed up Paul George at this point imo. I had George as #3 in my MVP voting slightly ahead of Jokic, he was a more disruptive defender than Kawhi/KD while being similar on offense during the regular season. But the offensive differences between Kawhi/KD and George really show in the playoffs, PG just isn't as complete or consistent. And Kawhi/KD have both elevated their D during the playoffs as well.

-Harden is hanging on vs. Kawhi/Durant because of his regular season performance, but Kawhi is coming on like a freight train and KD is outplaying Harden in their series so far although Harden has made up some ground these past 2 games. Love seeing these 2 guys guard each other so much in this series.

5. Jokic
6. George
7. Curry

- I had these guys as 3-4-5 in the MVP rankings after Giannis/Harden. But Kawhi/KD have just passed them up due to them reminding us who they really are during the playoffs. Jokic is also just killing it and I have him ahead of George for sure, his defense is questionable but his offensive game is just so damn strong. I could see Jokic having an argument over Kawhi/KD, but personally I just can't put him there yet.
-Curry could definitely get up to #5, but it's hard to see him get into my Top 4 considering how clearly Harden/Durant are outplaying him in their series. He is an offensive powerhouse but he needs to step up.


8. Embiid
9. Lillard

- If these guys lead their teams to surprise Finals runs, who knows how high they could end up. They could definitely sneak into the Top 5, but it would take something special to get better than #5.

[Texas Chuck]

Man, I'd love to see the chaos and fallout from Kawhi cruising to a championship this year with the Raps. I certainly don't think it's a guarantee at this point, but wouldn't that be something to watch here (to a lesser extent) and in the wider media? So much crow would have to be eaten.

I'm confused a bit by this. Isn't Kawhi almost universally seen as one of the top players in the league? Who is having to eat crow if he has a great playoffs and leads the Raptors to an unexpected title? Those who picked the Warriors shouldn't have to eat crow because they were the logical choice.

Maybe you can explain what you mean by chaos and fall out? I think it would be much more like the 11 Mavs title--unexpected but not that out of line considering Toronto has been a good team for years now and they made 2 significant upgrades in Derozan to Kawhi and JV to Gasol plus Siakam took another big step forward (oh yeah and for some reason the Spus just threw in Danny Green for free and he's a terrific player.)

[inDe_eD]

Man, I'd love to see the chaos and fallout from Kawhi cruising to a championship this year with the Raps. I certainly don't think it's a guarantee at this point, but wouldn't that be something to watch here (to a lesser extent) and in the wider media? So much crow would have to be eaten.

I'm confused a bit by this. Isn't Kawhi almost universally seen as one of the top players in the league? Who is having to eat crow if he has a great playoffs and leads the Raptors to an unexpected title? Those who picked the Warriors shouldn't have to eat crow because they were the logical choice.

Maybe you can explain what you mean by chaos and fall out? I think it would be much more like the 11 Mavs title--unexpected but not that out of line considering Toronto has been a good team for years now and they made 2 significant upgrades in Derozan to Kawhi and JV to Gasol plus Siakam took another big step forward (oh yeah and for some reason the Spus just threw in Danny Green for free and he's a terrific player.)

I think there is certainly recognition that he’s been one of the best players in the playoffs, but he was very close to universally blasted for last season and then almost as panned this year for load management. There are media people that are very reasonable in their Kawhi takes (Lowe and Nate Duncan come to mind), but they are in the minority. I listen to nearly all of the big nba podcasts, and in general, Kawhi’s effort has been questioned, he’s leaving for LA at the end of the season, he’s going to rest in the playoffs, he has no autonomy (uncle Dennis), etc. I can promise you that the big media outlets like SI, the Ringer, and ESPN don’t want to be talking about Kawhi winning a chip in Toronto and signing there long term.

[Outside]

Man, I'd love to see the chaos and fallout from Kawhi cruising to a championship this year with the Raps. I certainly don't think it's a guarantee at this point, but wouldn't that be something to watch here (to a lesser extent) and in the wider media? So much crow would have to be eaten.

I'm confused a bit by this. Isn't Kawhi almost universally seen as one of the top players in the league? Who is having to eat crow if he has a great playoffs and leads the Raptors to an unexpected title? Those who picked the Warriors shouldn't have to eat crow because they were the logical choice.

Maybe you can explain what you mean by chaos and fall out? I think it would be much more like the 11 Mavs title--unexpected but not that out of line considering Toronto has been a good team for years now and they made 2 significant upgrades in Derozan to Kawhi and JV to Gasol plus Siakam took another big step forward (oh yeah and for some reason the Spus just threw in Danny Green for free and he's a terrific player.)

I think there is certainly recognition that he’s been one of the best players in the playoffs, but he was very close to universally blasted for last season and then almost as panned this year for load management. There are media people that are very reasonable in their Kawhi takes (Lowe and Nate Duncan come to mind), but they are in the minority. I listen to nearly all of the big nba podcasts, and in general, Kawhi’s effort has been questioned, he’s leaving for LA at the end of the season, he’s going to rest in the playoffs, he has no autonomy (uncle Dennis), etc. I can promise you that the big media outlets like SI, the Ringer, and ESPN don’t want to be talking about Kawhi winning a chip in Toronto and signing there long term.

Last year is last year. Once this season was well underway, I don't think that last season plays into many people's minds.

It's not "panning" him for load management to recognize that he only played 60 out of 82 games. At the end of the RS, he wasn't in most people's top list for MVP or POY because of that, and that's just recognizing the reality of the situation. Of course he had the opportunity to rise up the ranks for POY by having a great postseason, which he has done for me and others, just as other players have an opportunity solidify their standing, rise, or fall. He's no different, but there's nothing wrong with taking RS performance into account. PS counts for a lot, but it's not everything.

[inDe_eD]

Last year is last year. Once this season was well underway, I don't think that last season plays into many people's minds.

It's not "panning" him for load management to recognize that he only played 60 out of 82 games. At the end of the RS, he wasn't in most people's top list for MVP or POY because of that, and that's just recognizing the reality of the situation. Of course he had the opportunity to rise up the ranks for POY by having a great postseason, which he has done for me and others, just as other players have an opportunity solidify their standing, rise, or fall. He's no different, but there's nothing wrong with taking RS performance into account. PS counts for a lot, but it's not everything.

Well, I'm not accusing the entire board here of being the mainstream sports media (I even said as much in my initial post), but you're underselling the sour grapes towards Kawhi this season. I won't try and convince you though, you don't seem to be one of those people and if you haven't been paying a lot of attention to Kawhi's season, I can see why you wouldn't pick up on it.

[Outside]

Last year is last year. Once this season was well underway, I don't think that last season plays into many people's minds.

It's not "panning" him for load management to recognize that he only played 60 out of 82 games. At the end of the RS, he wasn't in most people's top list for MVP or POY because of that, and that's just recognizing the reality of the situation. Of course he had the opportunity to rise up the ranks for POY by having a great postseason, which he has done for me and others, just as other players have an opportunity solidify their standing, rise, or fall. He's no different, but there's nothing wrong with taking RS performance into account. PS counts for a lot, but it's not everything.

Well, I'm not accusing the entire board here of being the mainstream sports media (I even said as much in my initial post), but you're underselling the sour grapes towards Kawhi this season. I won't try and convince you though, you don't seem to be one of those people and if you haven't been paying a lot of attention to Kawhi's season, I can see why you wouldn't pick up on it.

I've paid attention to Kawhi this season. He's been excellent when he's played, though his RS defense wasn't up to his previous DPOY standards. He showed up particularly well in big games. The only reason he wasn't in my top group of POY candidates at the end of the RS is that he missed 27 percent of the games.

Right now, he's top five for me. I count PS for a lot.