WCSF | (1) Golden State Warriors vs (4) Houston Rockets, Part Two (Series tied 2-2)

[Vladimir777]

I’ve always felt Iggy was a very underrated part of the Warriors dynasty’s success. Glad to see him getting some love on here. I felt he richly deserved that 2015 FMVP. As I think I saw someone post elsewhere, it wasn’t the raw stats or numbers. It was that he changed the moment of the series. I watched that series, and he was definitely the most pivotal figure in the narrative of the series on the Warriors’ side.

Speaking of Iguodala, here's a stat you probably never thought you'd see, Iguodala leads the NBA with 19 dunks in these playoffs.

God bless Iggy!

[TMU]

The Warriors are who we thought they were, but let's not act like the series is over. Plenty of games to play with the previous two games resulting in a close finish.

[likemycurryhot]

Just admit it, Golden State is better than Houston. This trying to make refereeing the problem (when we know that Harden/Paul are the two biggest floppers in the game) is just deluding oneself to that.

Golden State is all time talented team I lost count how many times I've said that. It requires Houston to play their A game while GS has one or two shooters going cold for Houston to win a game, and with KD playing like the best player in the world right now, things get 2x tougher. Look at the WCF last year, Houston got blown out on most of their losses, and they won very narrowly. Sane Rockets fans all see the reality in front of us, an nobody is going to act like it's a shame if we lose to the Warriors - all we want to see is a competitive series. I used the word "rig" out of extreme frustration, if I can, I take it back.

But the thing is when game 1 went ultra competitive as a momentum swing series opener, when Houston did all they could to bring the game that close, seemingly lost it on some unfavored calls down the stretch and eventually lost the game by 1 possession, us fans have the right to question it. We are not saying those calls cost us the game, we are saying those calls were negative contributions. We are not saying referee is the problem, we are saying it is one of the problems. Game 2 was really clean from both sides, so even if it was still a loss, it was a lot more acceptable one.

There is also no need to bring floppers talk into this discussion. A guy can flop 100 times before and still should shoot 2 free throws if it's a legit foul. If we start to bring this logic of "if he cheated before then he should not get calls the rest of his career", where is the end? Where do we draw that line? I always thought it's better for everyone just stick to the game. If it's a foul, call it. If it's a leg sticking out or arm push off, call it offensive foul. You call a couple on Harden and it stops his push off automatically. Even as a Rockets fan I would love to see that because it makes the game a lot cleaner (and if you like, it makes our subsequent bitching on legit fouls more acceptable). However, we as posters have no need to elevate the discussion to an ethical level. Crying wolf, he deserves this treatment, he deserves this and that, it's not for us to say who deserves what. Look at Kerr, dude got punched by MJ, called Yao "Chinaman" on TV, did his fair share of ref complaining and snarky comments, a lousy GM who walked into a winning situation, there are quite a few better coaches out there who haven't won or will never win as much as Kerr had. Do we say Kerr not deserve his success or he needs to coach the Knicks to even out some of his luck? No, because it is not for us to comment who deserves what. We stay on the game itself, that's what we should do.

Not sure why Kerr getting punched is a negative on Kerr. Also, he created the Warriors offensive system and is widely acknowledged to be one of the best at handling player egos, a critical skill in today’s game that many of his peers lack. Also, yeah, he used a slur on tv once but this is how he responded: “To Whom it may Concern,

I'd like to offer a heartfelt apology to all viewers, and to Chinese
Americans in particular, for referring to Yao Ming as a 'Chinaman' on TNT's
broadcast of the Houston Rockets game this past Monday night. I made the
comment very innocently, as I incorrectly believed that referring to Yao in
that way was the same as calling someone a 'Frenchman', an 'Englishman' or a
'Dutchman.' I had no idea I was using a phrase that was and is derogatory,
and I feel terrible to have offended so many people.
I consider myself very open minded and tolerant. I lived overseas for a good
part of my childhood, and I have great respect for all races, religions and
cultures. My sister in-law is Chinese American, as is one of my best
friends, and my brother in law is a respected scholar of Chinese history at
Cambridge University in England. I should have known better than to have
used that phrase, and I am extremely embarrassed at my own ignorance.
Please accept my apology and know that I will do my best to help educate
others on the origin and meaning of the derogatory phrase that I used.

With the utmost sincerity,
Steve Kerr”

He’s a solid dude with incredible credentials. For a guy who’s trying to get everyone to focus on the game it’s kind of lame for you to character assassinate a good guy like Kerr.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[floppymoose]

Yeah, I didn't know Chinaman was derogatory for many many (many) years. It seems like a particularly easy mistake to make. If you haven't been taught that, you aren't going to guess it.

[xfactor99]

Yeah, KD takes a quarter of his shots from the long midrange (16 ft to 3P) in the postseason. So Houston is happy to let him operate 1-on-1 from there because Moreyball says it's inefficient (and in general, it is). But he's making them at a 58.5% clip. That's 58.5% TS, which is higher than GS is shooting on the rest of their shots in the playoffs. When that's the shot you have to be happy with from Golden State, seeing that your alternative is doubling and potentially allowing a Curry/Klay three or Draymond-to-Iggy/Looney oop...you're going to have a rough time.

I think Milwaukee and Toronto are much better suited to make it harder for the Warriors though, because they have Kawhi and Giannis who can actually contest Durant's shots, and they have a plethora of other switchable defenders to throw at Curry and Klay.

Agree on Milwaukee and Toronto, in particular they are also significantly taller than Houston all-around. Houston's got a bunch of good individual defenders in isolation but they can't grab a damn rebound collectively.

While Toronto is very well-equipped to guard the Warriors, I have my doubts that they can score efficiently on the Warriors. I just don't trust Toronto's 3-point shooting enough, especially if the Warriors are playing at the defensive intensity that they have the last two games. The Bucks would be more interesting I think, I have difficulty envisioning how that matchup would go.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat with Toronto. 6th in regular season 3P% and middle of the pack in the playoffs, but I don't trust Lowry's outside shot against Golden State one bit. In fact he's at 28.6% in these playoffs. And Danny Green is at 31.6%, not to mention he's shot it poorly in 4 of the last 5 playoffs he's been in. At the moment, Toronto's 3 point shooting is being spearheaded by Kawhi (46.5%), Gasol (45.6%), and Siakam (39.4%). I have no worries about Kawhi. But can Siakam sustain that? I don't think he's that level of a shooter personally, despite the fact that he shot nearly 37% in the RS. He rarely shoots contested ones. 0% of his 3PA in this postseason have been contested (defender within 4 feet). 3% of his 3PA in the regular season were contested. I think Gasol is really good shooter, but I have my doubt he's playable against the Warriors, so they'll more likely go Serge at the 5 (not a good shooter from range) and even Siakam for stretches.

So yeah, I like that defensive matchup. But offensively, you're right, they could struggle and if their outside shot isn't going, it'll be a lot of "Kawhi, make something happen." Siakam has really blossomed as Toronto's surefire #2 scoring option in the playoffs, posting over 23 ppg. Is he ready to maintain that kind of production against the Warriors though? I'm not sure. And when Lowry is your third scoring option, you're going to need every bit of it.

Feeling better and better about our assessment that Toronto's offense is not going to be good enough, maybe even to get through the Sixers or Bucks/Celtics if they get there.

[letsgorockets]

I think Houston needs to come outta the box with some experimentation with the lineup next game. If the Warriors are gonna keep starting the death lineup I'd take Capela out of the starting lineup and go with CP3/Harden/Gordon/House/Tucker. Bring Capela off the bench to mirror Bogut/Looney's minutes so he has a more favorable matchup. I'd even consider swapping CP3 for Rivers, let CP3 get his lather up against the Warriors bench, and close with CP3/Harden/Gordon/Tucker with whoever the hot hand is between House/Rivers.

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[zshawn10]

[Haynes] There are some players in that (Warriors) locker room that are not buying the whole James Harden eye being extremely hurt thing. They were talking about some of the shots he was shooting during the game then when he goes to the free throw line and squinting like he can’t see.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/02/warriors-downplaying-severity-of-james-hardens-eye-injury/

[G35]

I’ve always felt Iggy was a very underrated part of the Warriors dynasty’s success. Glad to see him getting some love on here. I felt he richly deserved that 2015 FMVP. As I think I saw someone post elsewhere, it wasn’t the raw stats or numbers. It was that he changed the moment of the series. I watched that series, and he was definitely the most pivotal figure in the narrative of the series on the Warriors’ side.

I’ve always felt that Draymond (much as he annoys me) and Iggy turn up their game a lot in the POs, leading to a lot of GSW’s success. Of course, Steph and Klay are integral to the team as a whole, and they’ve helped build up the Warriors from the ground up over the long haul of the regular seasons of the past few years. But come playoff time, Steph and especially Klay can disappear in games. I don’t care what stats say, but I see it in the games played.

As others have said, KD has been a sort of “insurance policy” since he came onto the team at the end of 2016. He has sometimes affected the beautiful flow of the old Warriors, and possibly dampened some of what they were once capable of, but he also guarantees that they’ll perform well in the playoffs. And, sure enough, they’ve won every single season since he came to the team, and I don’t see that changing this year. He feels like he doesn’t really belong on the team aesthetically, but he also guarantees they win championships, so that makes him invaluable even if his iso game is counter to the old Warriors’ style. For this reason, I feel that he’s the most vital part of the Warriors’ last two championships, and deserves those FMVPs just like Iggy deserved his.

+1

Great takes on Iguodola, Dray, and KD.

I do think both Iggy and Dray are able to bring some grit, JYD, etc to the Warriors that is invaluable to their success. Curry (and to a lesser extent Klay) are "prettier" more aesthetic pleasing players...but that can be contained by physicality in the playoffs.

Yes, everyone gets on Barkley for saying that jump shooting teams do no win in the playoffs but the Warriors are much more than just the Splash Bro's. Dray and Iggy provide that extra intangibles and game changing qualities that all championship teams need. If it was just Curry and Klay, they would be the Blazers with better shooters.

What the Warriors have is a unique mix of players that bring everything you need to the table. It's similar to what Rodman brought to the 2nd 3peat Bulls.

Klay/Curry's shooting ability + Draymond's crazy/intensity/defense/playmaking + Iguodola's defense/3pt shooting/maturity

That is a great mix that allows everyone's talent to shine at different points in a game.


When you add KD's all around greatness, well like you said, its a great insurance policy and he is the most valuable player in that he brings the most all around skillset to the team. His abilities are the least marginalized by playoff defense and it allows the team a bigger margin for error. I don't think the Warriors are invincible, an opposing star player that gets hot, and the team around him plays above their heads could do it. But I don't think Harden is that player to raise the level of his teammates.....

[floppymoose]

Curry may have a finesse style on his offense but he is plenty "gritty". History has shown that attempts to rough him up or get in his head just motivate him to destroy you. When Perk tried to mess with him last year I knew he was going to go ham, and he did.

[ken6199]

[Haynes] There are some players in that (Warriors) locker room that are not buying the whole James Harden eye being extremely hurt thing. They were talking about some of the shots he was shooting during the game then when he goes to the free throw line and squinting like he can’t see.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/02/warriors-downplaying-severity-of-james-hardens-eye-injury/

If even if they are legit questioning the severity of Harden's eye injury, it's totally fine. I might too if i were them, like is it that bad? It could also be GS players didn't know how bad the injury was at that time, and realized its worse than they thought afterwards. Same with that Bogut mocking gif I posted, it coule just be Bogut didn't know how bad it was at that point.

Same goes to Harden. Even if he was exxagetating a bit at the free throw line, that's nothing different than the way his foul seeking. Just trying to create a more positive picture of playing through injury. It's not like he murdered someone right? Or some eye blinking earned him some extra free throws.

The key is, he came back, and he gutted out with very efficient shooting and hard working on D. The rest are just noise, writers creating topics so people have more to talk about.

[CS707]

I’ve got fan fatigue from this series already.

[TinmanZBoy]

Key: Austin Rivers

[xdrta+]

[Haynes] There are some players in that (Warriors) locker room that are not buying the whole James Harden eye being extremely hurt thing. They were talking about some of the shots he was shooting during the game then when he goes to the free throw line and squinting like he can’t see.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/02/warriors-downplaying-severity-of-james-hardens-eye-injury/

If even if they are legit questioning the severity of Harden's eye injury, it's totally fine. I might too if i were them, like is it that bad? It could also be GS players didn't know how bad the injury was at that time, and realized its worse than they thought afterwards. Same with that Bogut mocking gif I posted, it coule just be Bogut didn't know how bad it was at that point.

Same goes to Harden. Even if he was exxagetating a bit at the free throw line, that's nothing different than the way his foul seeking. Just trying to create a more positive picture of playing through injury. It's not like he murdered someone right? Or some eye blinking earned him some extra free throws.

The key is, he came back, and he gutted out with very efficient shooting and hard working on D. The rest are just noise, writers creating topics so people have more to talk about.

Truer words were never typed.

[PizzaSteve]

[Haynes] There are some players in that (Warriors) locker room that are not buying the whole James Harden eye being extremely hurt thing. They were talking about some of the shots he was shooting during the game then when he goes to the free throw line and squinting like he can’t see.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/02/warriors-downplaying-severity-of-james-hardens-eye-injury/

If even if they are legit questioning the severity of Harden's eye injury, it's totally fine. I might too if i were them, like is it that bad? It could also be GS players didn't know how bad the injury was at that time, and realized its worse than they thought afterwards. Same with that Bogut mocking gif I posted, it coule just be Bogut didn't know how bad it was at that point.

Same goes to Harden. Even if he was exxagetating a bit at the free throw line, that's nothing different than the way his foul seeking. Just trying to create a more positive picture of playing through injury. It's not like he murdered someone right? Or some eye blinking earned him some extra free throws.

The key is, he came back, and he gutted out with very efficient shooting and hard working on D. The rest are just noise, writers creating topics so people have more to talk about.

I have a lot of respect for Harden. Had good seats for games 1-2 WCF in 2015 and he was the best player in the court. The warriirs won basically by using his aggression and comoetitive spirit against him, as he clearly showed some fatigue at 4th Q and a timely Curry, Klay trap got the key steal. Howard flaked out on defense and he could only carry the offense so much.

I hope his eye heals fine. I expect at least one great shooting Rockets game at home. I hope all the warriors offensive weapons fire at least one game, as the defense has been on and off.

Personally, I thought Houston received a ton of 4th Q gifts from refs on no calls to help them close the gap, so perhaps the squinting and effort helped earn him a chance. Warriors outplayed much better than the score IMHO. With those TOs, Rockets didnt deserve a win earned on 4th Q FTs. Still waiting to see a call on all on Pauls pushing in the back on warriors ball handlersand when they are shooting mid range and refs are screened from the play. I swear he does it 3 times a quarter or more and it is a dirty move causing 'steals' when other rocket defenders get a steal opening caused by the push.

[michaelm]

[Haynes] There are some players in that (Warriors) locker room that are not buying the whole James Harden eye being extremely hurt thing. They were talking about some of the shots he was shooting during the game then when he goes to the free throw line and squinting like he can’t see.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/02/warriors-downplaying-severity-of-james-hardens-eye-injury/

These things cut both ways. Are they going to agree with all those who contend that Curry is never injured and that when he sprains his ankle or his MCL he is just pretending so he can have an excuse for underperforming or losing ?.

Harden was obviously injured, it was seen by everyone live on national TV, he had blood in his eye, etc, etc. Only Harden knows how much he was hindered, but I somehow doubt it helped him. Great players can still contribute when injured, as LeBron has also demonstrated numerous times.

[ken6199]

[Haynes] There are some players in that (Warriors) locker room that are not buying the whole James Harden eye being extremely hurt thing. They were talking about some of the shots he was shooting during the game then when he goes to the free throw line and squinting like he can’t see.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/02/warriors-downplaying-severity-of-james-hardens-eye-injury/

If even if they are legit questioning the severity of Harden's eye injury, it's totally fine. I might too if i were them, like is it that bad? It could also be GS players didn't know how bad the injury was at that time, and realized its worse than they thought afterwards. Same with that Bogut mocking gif I posted, it coule just be Bogut didn't know how bad it was at that point.

Same goes to Harden. Even if he was exxagetating a bit at the free throw line, that's nothing different than the way his foul seeking. Just trying to create a more positive picture of playing through injury. It's not like he murdered someone right? Or some eye blinking earned him some extra free throws.

The key is, he came back, and he gutted out with very efficient shooting and hard working on D. The rest are just noise, writers creating topics so people have more to talk about.

I have a lot of respect for Harden. Had good seats for games 1-2 WCF in 2015 and he was the best player in the court. The warriirs won basically by using his aggression and comoetitive spirit against him, as he clearly showed some fatigue at 4th Q and a timely Curry, Klay trap got the key steal. Howard flaked out on defense and he could only carry the offense so much.

I hope his eye heals fine. I expect at least one great shooting Rockets game at home. I hope all the warriors offensive weapons fire at least one game, as the defense has been on and off.

Personally, I thought Houston received a ton of 4th Q gifts from refs on no calls to help them close the gap, so perhaps the squinting and effort helped earn him a chance. Warriors outplayed much better than the score IMHO. With those TOs, Rockets didnt deserve a win earned on 4th Q FTs. Still waiting to see a call on all on Pauls pushing in the back on warriors ball handlersand when they are shooting mid range and refs are screened from the play. I swear he does it 3 times a quarter or more and it is a dirty move causing 'steals' when other rocket defenders get a steal opening caused by the push.

It was 82-67 or something when Houston started to come back? Right, we received some favorable calls that helped us outside of that 7 points Harden scoring spurt. Nothing new right? Some can say in game 1 if they called a couple of 3pt fouls on Klay we could have won, or at least leading the game in to 3rd Q and that would be quite some momentum swing. It's endless talk. I posted a lot on GS-HOU issues but I think in total I posted no more than 5 times on those calls in game 7 last year. You don't like to hear it, I hate mentioning it (bad memories). I am glad Morey picked up the slack for me.

Re Paul, it's no secret he is one of those guys who plays on the edge between ultra competitive and dirty/reckless. The guy recklessly piggybacked on Dwight which could have hurt his back badly. He had no fear pulling LeBron's arm come on that's his bro. Just like Draymond you think it's just accidental then sometimes you are just no so sure because why is this keep happening. Didn't he push Harden viciously after he dunked on him last year, twice? My attitude is we admit that's who they are and move on. There is no need to dig out every incident they are involved in and prove what's already proven.

I was there for game 3 and 4 as well in 2015. 2015 still carries a lot of good memories not just because it was the first time I believed Houston was about to start a dynasty the first time Harden looked like an MVP (and still thought GS was a one year fluke back then), but also it was during hurricane time when downtown was heavily flooded and we were stuck at the Toyota Center after game 4. I remember Draymond started with his press conference by sending good vibes to the city of Houston. Of course in 2016 he blasted that stupid Chinese reporter who kept asking dumb hurricane questions. Great moments beyond the game itself.

[KingDavid]

The Warriors are who we thought they were, but let's not act like the series is over. Plenty of games to play with the previous two games resulting in a close finish.

Haven't read the thread yet, but I can't believe people here are crowning the warriors wonders of this series already.

Let's wait until someone loses at home? Please?

[Zvaart]

The Warriors are who we thought they were, but let's not act like the series is over. Plenty of games to play with the previous two games resulting in a close finish.

Haven't read the thread yet, but I can't believe people here are crowning the warriors wonders of this series already.

Let's wait until someone loses at home? Please?

I can still seee the series go to 7.

Even if the Rockets lose one in Houston, i can see them wining in Oakland.

[og15]

Teams that have come back from 2-0 recently and won are Cleveland over Boston last year, Boston vs Chicago two years ago (Rondo did get injured), Portland over LAC in 2016 (Paul and Griffin injured by half time in game 4), Cleveland over GS in 2016, Memphis over LAC in 2013 (Griffin injured before game 5 ), OKC over Spurs in 2012.

So it seems like the two main factors are having the best player in the series (Lebron and Durant in three of these cases) or significant injury to the opponent [star(s) going down]. Houston definitely still has a chance, but the odds are obviously not in their favor. That said, all Houston can focus on is making it 2-2 after 4 games. After the you just say "we need to go 2-1", doesn't matter about winning two games in a row or three games in a row, you forget all that and take it one game at a time. Still, Warriors are advantaged in many ways, but surprising things have happened before.

[jamesd]

Just admit it, Golden State is better than Houston. This trying to make refereeing the problem (when we know that Harden/Paul are the two biggest floppers in the game) is just deluding oneself to that.

Golden State is all time talented team I lost count how many times I've said that. It requires Houston to play their A game while GS has one or two shooters going cold for Houston to win a game, and with KD playing like the best player in the world right now, things get 2x tougher. Look at the WCF last year, Houston got blown out on most of their losses, and they won very narrowly. Sane Rockets fans all see the reality in front of us, an nobody is going to act like it's a shame if we lose to the Warriors - all we want to see is a competitive series. I used the word "rig" out of extreme frustration, if I can, I take it back.

But the thing is when game 1 went ultra competitive as a momentum swing series opener, when Houston did all they could to bring the game that close, seemingly lost it on some unfavored calls down the stretch and eventually lost the game by 1 possession, us fans have the right to question it. We are not saying those calls cost us the game, we are saying those calls were negative contributions. We are not saying referee is the problem, we are saying it is one of the problems. Game 2 was really clean from both sides, so even if it was still a loss, it was a lot more acceptable one.

There is also no need to bring floppers talk into this discussion. A guy can flop 100 times before and still should shoot 2 free throws if it's a legit foul. If we start to bring this logic of "if he cheated before then he should not get calls the rest of his career", where is the end? Where do we draw that line? I always thought it's better for everyone just stick to the game. If it's a foul, call it. If it's a leg sticking out or arm push off, call it offensive foul. You call a couple on Harden and it stops his push off automatically. Even as a Rockets fan I would love to see that because it makes the game a lot cleaner (and if you like, it makes our subsequent bitching on legit fouls more acceptable). However, we as posters have no need to elevate the discussion to an ethical level. Crying wolf, he deserves this treatment, he deserves this and that, it's not for us to say who deserves what. Look at Kerr, dude got punched by MJ, called Yao "Chinaman" on TV, did his fair share of ref complaining and snarky comments, a lousy GM who walked into a winning situation, there are quite a few better coaches out there who haven't won or will never win as much as Kerr had. Do we say Kerr not deserve his success or he needs to coach the Knicks to even out some of his luck? No, because it is not for us to comment who deserves what. We stay on the game itself, that's what we should do.

Not sure why Kerr getting punched is a negative on Kerr. Also, he created the Warriors offensive system and is widely acknowledged to be one of the best at handling player egos, a critical skill in today’s game that many of his peers lack. Also, yeah, he used a slur on tv once but this is how he responded: “To Whom it may Concern,

I'd like to offer a heartfelt apology to all viewers, and to Chinese
Americans in particular, for referring to Yao Ming as a 'Chinaman' on TNT's
broadcast of the Houston Rockets game this past Monday night. I made the
comment very innocently, as I incorrectly believed that referring to Yao in
that way was the same as calling someone a 'Frenchman', an 'Englishman' or a
'Dutchman.' I had no idea I was using a phrase that was and is derogatory,
and I feel terrible to have offended so many people.
I consider myself very open minded and tolerant. I lived overseas for a good
part of my childhood, and I have great respect for all races, religions and
cultures. My sister in-law is Chinese American, as is one of my best
friends, and my brother in law is a respected scholar of Chinese history at
Cambridge University in England. I should have known better than to have
used that phrase, and I am extremely embarrassed at my own ignorance.
Please accept my apology and know that I will do my best to help educate
others on the origin and meaning of the derogatory phrase that I used.

With the utmost sincerity,
Steve Kerr”

He’s a solid dude with incredible credentials. For a guy who’s trying to get everyone to focus on the game it’s kind of lame for you to character assassinate a good guy like Kerr.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Popovich and Kerr for Prez and VP. Only half-joking.