OT: Art, Music, Literature, Media, and More! Part 2

[31to6]

GoT.....I just rewatched episode 3....

Spoiler:

They basically Snoke'd or Darth Maul'd the Night King. Built him up, only to have him unceremoniously defeated. I thought it was a lazy bit of writing. Maybe don't spend episode 2 with having everyone just chilling out in Winterfell. Have that battle span over 2 episodes at least, so he looks like a formidable opponent.

Seemed plenty formidable but in the end there’s no there there. SW fans spent years trying to figure out who Snoke ‘was’

Spoiler:

he was a bad guy who died

Unless

Spoiler:

he wasn’t really the Night King. Or Melisindra (sp) wanted to have him offed so that she could become the Night Queen.

sweet, is Snoke coming back too? Or Lady Snoke? Nah -- it's back to what Martin actually provided, now.

[CelticsLV]

Thought it was a good spectacle but awful writing (as has been the case for a few seasons now). Deus ex machina all over the place. Cheap, weak, disappointing.

Spoiler:

I see it differently. The show IS spectacle, not Shakespeare. To steal a phrase, last night was a "cinematic masterpiece".

Anyone ever see anything like that on TV before? Nope! Totally unprecedented in the history of TV and cable. Probably even movies as well. Visually stunning, musically beautiful, impeccably acted as always, very well-paced, and the artful blending together of a gigantic tapestry of characters and plot lines years in the making.

Folks glossing over all that is kinda jaded, IMO. I mean, look at this:




Yeah, the writing. I'd first offer that neither the showrunners nor GRRM are some fantastic writers. The whole show is a ridiculous blend of like 8 different fantasy genres and shocking gotcha moments, and none of it makes sense when you think about it. For all the theories and book backstories, not even sure it is supposed to.

With that said, people are way too hard on the writing. There were several denouements of secondary characters that were very well done. Jorah, Theon, Beric, Melisandre. Oh, and, like it or not, Arya.

And we aren't done. As tempted as I am to drop some spoilers on the next three episodes, I'll just say buckle up instead.

It's hardly a cinematic masterpiece when you can't make out anything during large parts of the episode due to terrible lighting and camera shots cutting every half a second. Looked like a visual mess. It had its moments as your screenshots show and the music was great too but calling it a masterpiece is a HUGE stretch.

[31to6]

While they might be out of source material, I don't think the show runners are diverging from GRRM at all on the major plot developments. More are coming.

Spoiler:

I think they are still working with source material. Beric saving Arya was a "Hodor" moment for me. They are pulling from existing notes and GRRM is still steering the ship.

Spoiler:

Beric is long dead in the books.

The showrunners made up a black-and-white Night King that Martin never would have. They tried to quickly paint on a little backstory and motive, though neither had much resonance. Made a cinematic beauty of a conclusion to that, wrapped it best they could ("he was just plain death, pure and simple, only thing that beats it is a desire to live and some luck"), and now it's back to watching the living murder each other or maybe try to somehow do something slightly better than that.

[3D Chess]

Spoiler:

I see it differently. The show IS spectacle, not Shakespeare. To steal a phrase, last night was a "cinematic masterpiece".

Anyone ever see anything like that on TV before? Nope! Totally unprecedented in the history of TV and cable. Probably even movies as well. Visually stunning, musically beautiful, impeccably acted as always, very well-paced, and the artful blending together of a gigantic tapestry of characters and plot lines years in the making.

Folks glossing over all that is kinda jaded, IMO. I mean, look at this:




Yeah, the writing. I'd first offer that neither the showrunners nor GRRM are some fantastic writers. The whole show is a ridiculous blend of like 8 different fantasy genres and shocking gotcha moments, and none of it makes sense when you think about it. For all the theories and book backstories, not even sure it is supposed to.

With that said, people are way too hard on the writing. There were several denouements of secondary characters that were very well done. Jorah, Theon, Beric, Melisandre. Oh, and, like it or not, Arya.

And we aren't done. As tempted as I am to drop some spoilers on the next three episodes, I'll just say buckle up instead.

Spoiler:

Gotta disagree with you here. GRRM is a fantastic writer, and his world follows it's own internal logic ruthlessly and without cheap gotcha moments that feel unearned. Almost all of the great scenes and dialog in season 1-4 are taken verbatim from the books.

"none of it makes sense when you think about it. For all the theories and book backstories, not even sure it is supposed to. "

I wholeheartedly disagree with this. George wrote the books with purpose - that's why he's taking so freaking long to finish them. I could expound on the brilliant references, foreshadowing, and set up in the books but I'd be here til next Thursday.

How many times did we see Brienne, one handed Jaime (who has been shown to be pretty useless with his left hand), Pod, Sam (fking SAM, the most useless fighter in Westeros), Dany and Jon outnumbered, getting mauled, certain to die, then the camera cuts away. Next shot and they are 1 vs 1ing a couple of wights without a scratch on them... Lame. Fakeout after fakeout - by the 10th time the tension had been sucked out of the episode for me.

I enjoy ASOIAF because it is not your typical big budget brainless slop that relies on cheap tricks and well worn tropes. Unfortunately there has been a noticeable shift towards this type of stuff in the later seasons of the show. You can't watch the first few seasons and tell me this is the same quality of writing - it's not even close. I don't even really blame the show runners - even though I think they are pretty hacky - because they didn't sign up to finish this story, just to adapt it. They were left holding the can, and I think they've done a poor job of it.

I'm sure there are some great moments to come - George told them the framework of the ending, so it's sure to have some clever and epic moments. But so far they have failed to stick the landing from a story perspective. Not mad, just disappointed.

The music is absolutely fantastic and some of the visuals were stunning. But that's not the reason I became interested in the book/show. I think they abandoned that in favor of spectacle and "yas kween" moments on Twitter, which is fine for some (it would seem most?) people. Doesn't do it for me.

I'll admit I am a bit jaded. Been waiting years for that damn book, and to watch the ending get butchered (again, just my opinion) doesn't help with that! I've done my best to mentally separate the show from the books, but it's not 100% possible.

Spoiler:

You are welcome to like it or not, but I don't agree with a lot of the reasoning behind a lot of that. There were no dues ex machina cheap plot tricks IMO. Pretty much everything that happened was through storylines that were built up from the very start of the show. Wasn't like Nymeria rode in with a bunch of feral direwolves to save the day at the last moment. Probably a full quarter of the show to date was dedicated to creating an assassin out of Arya. Beric's entire purpose was to get her to the finish line. Jorah died protecting a woman he has been (in love) with since the very first episodes. None of that is contrived or cheap, even if it wasn't the denouements that you or others wanted. And the foreshadowing from season's worth of previous episodes was extensive and rich.

The showrunners have a huge challenge in terms of getting this complex world to screen in a cohesive manner with a nice bow on top at the end, and yes, the dialogue has slipped (although somewhat overstated given how well episode 2 was done). But episode 3 was absolutely intended as spectacle. It had to be. It was basically an 80-minute battle scene. To each their own on that, but in the show I watched, it was very well done, especially from a production value. As a movie, it would sweep the Oscars in a lot of categories, and we are talking about a TV show.

And as you know, the true antagonist of all of this is Cersei, not the Night King, who really isn't even in the books.

As to GRRM being some kind of great writer, also to each their own on that. I'd take the books and the show on their own terms to an extent.

Have you read the books?

[Captain_Caveman]

Spoiler:

Gotta disagree with you here. GRRM is a fantastic writer, and his world follows it's own internal logic ruthlessly and without cheap gotcha moments that feel unearned. Almost all of the great scenes and dialog in season 1-4 are taken verbatim from the books.


I wholeheartedly disagree with this. George wrote the books with purpose - that's why he's taking so freaking long to finish them. I could expound on the brilliant references, foreshadowing, and set up in the books but I'd be here til next Thursday.

How many times did we see Brienne, one handed Jaime (who has been shown to be pretty useless with his left hand), Pod, Sam (fking SAM, the most useless fighter in Westeros), Dany and Jon outnumbered, getting mauled, certain to die, then the camera cuts away. Next shot and they are 1 vs 1ing a couple of wights without a scratch on them... Lame. Fakeout after fakeout - by the 10th time the tension had been sucked out of the episode for me.

I enjoy ASOIAF because it is not your typical big budget brainless slop that relies on cheap tricks and well worn tropes. Unfortunately there has been a noticeable shift towards this type of stuff in the later seasons of the show. You can't watch the first few seasons and tell me this is the same quality of writing - it's not even close. I don't even really blame the show runners - even though I think they are pretty hacky - because they didn't sign up to finish this story, just to adapt it. They were left holding the can, and I think they've done a poor job of it.

I'm sure there are some great moments to come - George told them the framework of the ending, so it's sure to have some clever and epic moments. But so far they have failed to stick the landing from a story perspective. Not mad, just disappointed.

The music is absolutely fantastic and some of the visuals were stunning. But that's not the reason I became interested in the book/show. I think they abandoned that in favor of spectacle and "yas kween" moments on Twitter, which is fine for some (it would seem most?) people. Doesn't do it for me.

I'll admit I am a bit jaded. Been waiting years for that damn book, and to watch the ending get butchered (again, just my opinion) doesn't help with that! I've done my best to mentally separate the show from the books, but it's not 100% possible.

Spoiler:

You are welcome to like it or not, but I don't agree with a lot of the reasoning behind a lot of that. There were no dues ex machina cheap plot tricks IMO. Pretty much everything that happened was through storylines that were built up from the very start of the show. Wasn't like Nymeria rode in with a bunch of feral direwolves to save the day at the last moment. Probably a full quarter of the show to date was dedicated to creating an assassin out of Arya. Beric's entire purpose was to get her to the finish line. Jorah died protecting a woman he has been (in love) with since the very first episodes. None of that is contrived or cheap, even if it wasn't the denouements that you or others wanted. And the foreshadowing from season's worth of previous episodes was extensive and rich.

The showrunners have a huge challenge in terms of getting this complex world to screen in a cohesive manner with a nice bow on top at the end, and yes, the dialogue has slipped (although somewhat overstated given how well episode 2 was done). But episode 3 was absolutely intended as spectacle. It had to be. It was basically an 80-minute battle scene. To each their own on that, but in the show I watched, it was very well done, especially from a production value. As a movie, it would sweep the Oscars in a lot of categories, and we are talking about a TV show.

And as you know, the true antagonist of all of this is Cersei, not the Night King, who really isn't even in the books.

As to GRRM being some kind of great writer, also to each their own on that. I'd take the books and the show on their own terms to an extent.

Have you read the books?

Couldn't get through them. It's chicken slop IMO. Good chicken slop, but still chicken slop and hardly literature. I think the show has far outstripped them, mostly due to the cinematography and general excellence of the actors involved.

[3D Chess]

Spoiler:

You are welcome to like it or not, but I don't agree with a lot of the reasoning behind a lot of that. There were no dues ex machina cheap plot tricks IMO. Pretty much everything that happened was through storylines that were built up from the very start of the show. Wasn't like Nymeria rode in with a bunch of feral direwolves to save the day at the last moment. Probably a full quarter of the show to date was dedicated to creating an assassin out of Arya. Beric's entire purpose was to get her to the finish line. Jorah died protecting a woman he has been (in love) with since the very first episodes. None of that is contrived or cheap, even if it wasn't the denouements that you or others wanted. And the foreshadowing from season's worth of previous episodes was extensive and rich.

The showrunners have a huge challenge in terms of getting this complex world to screen in a cohesive manner with a nice bow on top at the end, and yes, the dialogue has slipped (although somewhat overstated given how well episode 2 was done). But episode 3 was absolutely intended as spectacle. It had to be. It was basically an 80-minute battle scene. To each their own on that, but in the show I watched, it was very well done, especially from a production value. As a movie, it would sweep the Oscars in a lot of categories, and we are talking about a TV show.

And as you know, the true antagonist of all of this is Cersei, not the Night King, who really isn't even in the books.

As to GRRM being some kind of great writer, also to each their own on that. I'd take the books and the show on their own terms to an extent.

Have you read the books?

Couldn't get through them. It's chicken slop IMO. Good chicken slop, but still chicken slop and hardly literature. I think the show has far outstripped them, mostly due to the cinematography and general excellence of the actors involved.

I actually think this is fair assessment of the first book (the story is still excellent, the writing less so), including S1 of the show being "better", but not anything thereafter. It's a shame you couldn't get through it because later books contain some truly excellent writing, in my opinion.

Anyway, we are probably going to talk past each other with our opinions on the show, since we are looking at it through vastly different lenses, and that's cool.

C's up.

[3D Chess]

Watch on YouTube

Blow by blow summary of all the awful dumb **** that happened this week. It's to the level of pedantry, but that stuff is supposed to matter in this series. Savage @17:08 lol

[Feed Your Head]

Got tickets free showing to this tonight, Olivia Wildes directorial debut. 100% on RT so far, and the actual reviews are off the charts.

Watch on YouTube

[truth18]

Have you read the books?

Couldn't get through them. It's chicken slop IMO. Good chicken slop, but still chicken slop and hardly literature. I think the show has far outstripped them, mostly due to the cinematography and general excellence of the actors involved.

I actually think this is fair assessment of the first book (the story is still excellent, the writing less so), including S1 of the show being "better", but not anything thereafter. It's a shame you couldn't get through it because later books contain some truly excellent writing, in my opinion.

Anyway, we are probably going to talk past each other with our opinions on the show, since we are looking at it through vastly different lenses, and that's cool.

C's up.

I have ASOIAF as one of his worst pieces outside of Fevre Dream. The Meereenese knot is direct evidence that he **** a lot of **** up. Check out Tuf Voyaging, A Song for Lya and the Stone City if you want the truly good stuff.

[SuperDeluxe]

Watch on YouTube

[Ed Pinkney]

One of my all time favourites - Blueprint. Fantastic producer and MC. Been having a bit of a listening party in my car driving to work over the last few days.

Watch on YouTube

;t=1s



Worth the wait for Aesop Rock's verse to kick in on this track.

Watch on YouTube

[MagicBagley18]

Best episode of the season so far IMO tonight on GOT...one of my favorites ever in fact had every thing; action, politics and more. Amazing

[Captain_Caveman]

Best episode of the season so far IMO tonight on GOT...one of my favorites ever in fact had every thing; action, politics and more. Amazing

I liked the previous two better, but haters being dumb. Just enjoy the ride lol.

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

Spoiler:

[MagicBagley18]

Best episode of the season so far IMO tonight on GOT...one of my favorites ever in fact had every thing; action, politics and more. Amazing

I liked the previous two better, but haters being dumb. Just enjoy the ride lol.

We All have different flavors of ice cream we enjoy- they all taste good just a matter of preference. Sucks we only have 2 left now

[3D Chess]

Just end this ****. What a waste.

[Captain_Caveman]

Just end this ****. What a waste.

I will post the spoilers if you promise to film yourself reading them and then put it on youtube lol.

[3D Chess]

Just end this ****. What a waste.

I will post the spoilers if you promise to film yourself reading them and then put it on youtube lol.

I couldn't care less about the spoilers at this point because the writers clearly don't give a **** about the brilliant show they started to make, let alone all of the book lore, story, character motivations and world building they've left for dead for no good reason. They are writing the show as if reading from a series of spoiler cliff notes, and **** happens just because it might look cool on screen. There is no logic, reason, cause and effect... just stuff happening in order to move on to the next set of stuff happening.

Wanna know why, according to the showrunners themselves, Dany got ambushed by Euron? Because she "forgot about" the Iron Fleet. Yep! That is a verbatim quote. The fleet that has **** her **** up multiple times, and was mentioned not 10 minutes prior in the war council meeting... she "forgot about" them. LOL

Read on Twitter

I honestly can't believe someone of your astute nature is lapping this **** up. It it awful, and the vast majority of anyone but complete casual viewers agree with me. r/asoiaf is a bloodbath, and even the usually very show friendly r/gameofthrones has finally caught a whiff of the **** they've been peddled recently. Plot point spoilers don't matter when the road to get there is nonsensical or puerile. It shouldn't be about "oooh this happened", it should be about why, how, and what it means for the world around them. At this point I'd believe any spoiler point because the writers provide little to no justification for what happens on screen, it just happens, deal with it.

My reaction would be as posted above - this show can't piss me off any more than it has by now*, I'm already dead.



*Not true, I'm sure I will get mega pissed at the remaining two episodes. But it's my own fault at this point. I should have expected even less than my rock bottom expectations coming into this season.

In closing;

Watch on YouTube

This whole video is a brilliant summary of episode 3, but the last 10 minutes really cuts to the core of the overriding issues that have made this season an unforgivable ****.

[Captain_Caveman]

Spoiler:

Just end this ****. What a waste.

I will post the spoilers if you promise to film yourself reading them and then put it on youtube lol.

I couldn't care less about the spoilers at this point because the writers clearly don't give a **** about the brilliant show they started to make, let alone all of the book lore, story, character motivations and world building they've left for dead for no good reason. They are writing the show as if reading from a series of spoiler cliff notes, and **** happens just because it might look cool on screen. There is no logic, reason, cause and effect... just stuff happening in order to move on to the next set of stuff happening.

Wanna know why, according to the showrunners themselves, Dany got ambushed by Euron? Because she "forgot about" the Iron Fleet. Yep! That is a verbatim quote. The fleet that has **** her **** up multiple times, and was mentioned not 10 minutes prior in the war council meeting... she "forgot about" them. LOL

Read on Twitter

I honestly can't believe someone of your astute nature is lapping this **** up. It it awful, and the vast majority of anyone but complete casual viewers agree with me. r/asoiaf is a bloodbath, and even the usually very show friendly r/gameofthrones has finally caught a whiff of the **** they've been peddled recently.

My reaction would be as posted above - this show can't piss me off any more than it has by now*, I'm already dead.



*Not true, I'm sure I will get mega pissed at the remaining two episodes. But it's my own fault at this point. I should have expected even less than my rock bottom expectations coming into this season.

In closing;

Watch on YouTube

This whole video is a brilliant summary of episode 3, but the last 10 minutes really cuts to the core of the overriding issues that have made this season an unforgivable ****.

You are going to have a **** aneurysm if the spoilers are true. No question about it, lol.

FWIW, my favorite thing about the show is how it never does the expected thing. Just torments the sentimental in ridiculously over-the-top fashion, and I am more than OK with that. In the larger sense, we live in a culture of criticism. People like to criticize things to make themselves seem smart. We are talking about a **** TV show/3rd rate science fiction books. Just try to enjoy the ride.

[3D Chess]

In the larger sense, we live in a culture of criticism. People like to criticize things to make themselves seem smart.

Dude, you have to see the irony of this comment coming from a guy that loves to run roughshod over a bunch of brain dead posters on an internet forum.

If someone does or says dumb ****, it's ok to point that out. You of all people know that!

I refuse to lap up the **** of someone getting paid millions of dollars to adapt objectively great source material (it is not 3rd rate sci-fi, you haven't even read it!) just because I should "enjoy the ride" to hell.