Gordon Hayward Thread

[soxfan2003]

What is Hayward supposed to do when players are not passing him the ball when he is literally in his best positions to score. (In the regular season, I remember players on the Celtics not passing the ball to an open Hayward when he was something like 9 for 9 so this has been a problem for a while and it is not really based that much on whether Hayward is hitting his shots or not.) The team has already been dysfunctional enough throughout the season. Maybe he should scream at his teammates more like some players might. I really think it is up to Stevens to get him involved more.

Thanks to Giannis, Bucks are the more talented team but the Celtics have enough talent if they recognized that and played to their strengths and to minimize Milwaukee's strengths, they may have at least made things awfully difficult on the Bucks.

The Bucks play unselfishly and when I watch them Middleton can have a great game shooting the ball or a horrible one but I never really question many of the shots their players take. They play unselfishly and try to move the ball until they get high percentage looks.

The Celtics are not doing that. And it goes beyond one or two players but I do think Kyrie deserves criticism for talking about 30 shots after yesterday's game. He needs to be much more focused on getting other players/the Celtics as a team high quality looks than to be scoring points. If the Celtics start scoring, Kyrie is too good for his own efficiency to not return.

[captain green]

Gordons fish in a box is currently better than the actual the player. And way cheaper too

[CeltsfaninDC]

What is Hayward supposed to do when players are not passing him the ball when he is literally in his best positions to score. (In the regular season, I remember players on the Celtics not passing the ball to an open Hayward when he was something like 9 for 9 so this has been a problem for a while and it is not really based that much on whether Hayward is hitting his shots or not.) The team has already been dysfunctional enough throughout the season. Maybe he should scream at his teammates more like some players might. I really think it is up to Stevens to get him involved more.

Thanks to Giannis, Bucks are the more talented team but the Celtics have enough talent if they recognized that and played to their strengths and to minimize Milwaukee's strengths, they may have at least made things awfully difficult on the Bucks.

The Bucks play unselfishly and when I watch them Middleton can have a great game shooting the ball or a horrible one but I never really question many of the shots their players take. They play unselfishly and try to move the ball until they get high percentage looks.

The Celtics are not doing that. And it goes beyond one or two players but I do think Kyrie deserves criticism for talking about 30 shots after yesterday's game. He needs to be much more focused on getting other players/the Celtics as a team high quality looks than to be scoring points. If the Celtics start scoring, Kyrie is too good for his own efficiency to not return.

Part of the problem is that Brad’s prior relationship with Gordon is being viewed by some players as not equal. They feel he treats him differently and we see that when they are on the floor. Kyrie has stated as much during the season. Now that being said, Gordon is NOT playing well and needs to earn his shots and minutes which I’m not sure he is doing right now. He has shown he can get 30pts and right now this team needs 15-20 out of him. He needs to drive, get to the rim and finish. He is still way too tentative and the excuse of injury needs to be put away.

[cloverleaf]

What is Hayward supposed to do when players are not passing him the ball when he is literally in his best positions to score. (In the regular season, I remember players on the Celtics not passing the ball to an open Hayward when he was something like 9 for 9 so this has been a problem for a while and it is not really based that much on whether Hayward is hitting his shots or not.) The team has already been dysfunctional enough throughout the season. Maybe he should scream at his teammates more like some players might. I really think it is up to Stevens to get him involved more.

Thanks to Giannis, Bucks are the more talented team but the Celtics have enough talent if they recognized that and played to their strengths and to minimize Milwaukee's strengths, they may have at least made things awfully difficult on the Bucks.

The Bucks play unselfishly and when I watch them Middleton can have a great game shooting the ball or a horrible one but I never really question many of the shots their players take. They play unselfishly and try to move the ball until they get high percentage looks.

The Celtics are not doing that. And it goes beyond one or two players but I do think Kyrie deserves criticism for talking about 30 shots after yesterday's game. He needs to be much more focused on getting other players/the Celtics as a team high quality looks than to be scoring points. If the Celtics start scoring, Kyrie is too good for his own efficiency to not return.

Part of the problem is that Brad’s prior relationship with Gordon is being viewed by some players as not equal. They feel he treats him differently and we see that when they are on the floor. Kyrie has stated as much during the season. Now that being said, Gordon is NOT playing well and needs to earn his shots and minutes which I’m not sure he is doing right now. He has shown he can get 30pts and right now this team needs 15-20 out of him. He needs to drive, get to the rim and finish. He is still way too tentative and the excuse of injury needs to be put away.

When a team plays tough and unselfishly and together, the coach gets credit. And when they fail on those counts, I think it is fair to hold the coach responsible.

[Crunch 99]

One possession he dribbles over the court to initiate the offense

I've only seen bits and pieces of Celtics' games, but it looks to me like he generally does an excellent job initiating the offense, especially driving and dishing to an open man for a three point attempt.

The next (possession) he just stands behind the 3 in the corner and that's mostly what he's relegated to.

Exactly. Worse, I see the same guys that he drives and dishes to for open threes on the previous play, drive in to traffic and take a contested shot rather than return the favor and pass out to wide open Hayward.

How about you give him like 6 minutes of main ballhandler duties? He's always been at his best when he has the ball in his hands. During this year's playoffs, his USG% has been below 15 while his minutes are basically at 31MPG!!! His USG% in Utah during his last season was basically double of this. This is an abomination.

I tend to agree, though there were probably good reasons he wasn't granted more usage and opportunity this season while he was coming back from injury. Maybe next season? Especially if Irving heads to the Knicks.

[jmr07019]

What is Hayward supposed to do when players are not passing him the ball when he is literally in his best positions to score. (In the regular season, I remember players on the Celtics not passing the ball to an open Hayward when he was something like 9 for 9 so this has been a problem for a while and it is not really based that much on whether Hayward is hitting his shots or not.) The team has already been dysfunctional enough throughout the season. Maybe he should scream at his teammates more like some players might. I really think it is up to Stevens to get him involved more.

Thanks to Giannis, Bucks are the more talented team but the Celtics have enough talent if they recognized that and played to their strengths and to minimize Milwaukee's strengths, they may have at least made things awfully difficult on the Bucks.

The Bucks play unselfishly and when I watch them Middleton can have a great game shooting the ball or a horrible one but I never really question many of the shots their players take. They play unselfishly and try to move the ball until they get high percentage looks.

The Celtics are not doing that. And it goes beyond one or two players but I do think Kyrie deserves criticism for talking about 30 shots after yesterday's game. He needs to be much more focused on getting other players/the Celtics as a team high quality looks than to be scoring points. If the Celtics start scoring, Kyrie is too good for his own efficiency to not return.

I think it goes back to the beginning of the season when Brad started Hayward when Hayward didn’t deserve to start. That didn’t sit well with many (all?) players and I think either consciously or subconsciously they don’t pass to Hayward as a result. Rozier, Brown, Tatum and Morris aren't great passers on top of it.

We haven’t played in an optimal way all year and it’s not gonna start now. Kyrie and Brad deserve the blame.

[chrisab123]

If Cleveland is willing to take the contract I wouldn't be opposed to trading him for a late 2nd rounder with protections.

[yazfan]

Again, Stevens friendship screwed Hayward. No other Max player would be benched after injury. Period. End of sentence. PG13 had a horrible 1st year back, BUT STARTED.

We do not pass him the ball.

He has earned his minutes. Going 1 for 5 when your shots are literally 5 minutes apart almost doesn't count.

Kyrie is the issue. He goes whining to Stephen A spewing Hayward is the problem.

Go ahead and trade Hayward and watch him on a team that know his value.

This **** year is all on Brad and Kyrie

[yazfan]

What is Hayward supposed to do when players are not passing him the ball when he is literally in his best positions to score. (In the regular season, I remember players on the Celtics not passing the ball to an open Hayward when he was something like 9 for 9 so this has been a problem for a while and it is not really based that much on whether Hayward is hitting his shots or not.) The team has already been dysfunctional enough throughout the season. Maybe he should scream at his teammates more like some players might. I really think it is up to Stevens to get him involved more.

Thanks to Giannis, Bucks are the more talented team but the Celtics have enough talent if they recognized that and played to their strengths and to minimize Milwaukee's strengths, they may have at least made things awfully difficult on the Bucks.

The Bucks play unselfishly and when I watch them Middleton can have a great game shooting the ball or a horrible one but I never really question many of the shots their players take. They play unselfishly and try to move the ball until they get high percentage looks.

The Celtics are not doing that. And it goes beyond one or two players but I do think Kyrie deserves criticism for talking about 30 shots after yesterday's game. He needs to be much more focused on getting other players/the Celtics as a team high quality looks than to be scoring points. If the Celtics start scoring, Kyrie is too good for his own efficiency to not return.

I think it goes back to the beginning of the season when Brad started Hayward when Hayward didn’t deserve to start. That didn’t sit well with many (all?) players and I think either consciously or subconsciously they don’t pass to Hayward as a result. Rozier, Brown, Tatum and Morris aren't great passers on top of it.

We haven’t played in an optimal way all year and it’s not gonna start now. Kyrie and Brad deserve the blame.

That was 20 games, get over it. What about the last 20 games that I could argue Hayward deserved to start ? So that's ok?

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

I thought Hayward was improving during the Indiana series but clearly that was a fluke.

I've never ever in my life seen NBA player drive the lane and kick it out as much as Hayward does. He must do it five times a game.

I don't see much improving in October. Hayward has pretty much turned into Jeff green with a much much worse contract.

[jmr07019]

What is Hayward supposed to do when players are not passing him the ball when he is literally in his best positions to score. (In the regular season, I remember players on the Celtics not passing the ball to an open Hayward when he was something like 9 for 9 so this has been a problem for a while and it is not really based that much on whether Hayward is hitting his shots or not.) The team has already been dysfunctional enough throughout the season. Maybe he should scream at his teammates more like some players might. I really think it is up to Stevens to get him involved more.

Thanks to Giannis, Bucks are the more talented team but the Celtics have enough talent if they recognized that and played to their strengths and to minimize Milwaukee's strengths, they may have at least made things awfully difficult on the Bucks.

The Bucks play unselfishly and when I watch them Middleton can have a great game shooting the ball or a horrible one but I never really question many of the shots their players take. They play unselfishly and try to move the ball until they get high percentage looks.

The Celtics are not doing that. And it goes beyond one or two players but I do think Kyrie deserves criticism for talking about 30 shots after yesterday's game. He needs to be much more focused on getting other players/the Celtics as a team high quality looks than to be scoring points. If the Celtics start scoring, Kyrie is too good for his own efficiency to not return.

I think it goes back to the beginning of the season when Brad started Hayward when Hayward didn’t deserve to start. That didn’t sit well with many (all?) players and I think either consciously or subconsciously they don’t pass to Hayward as a result. Rozier, Brown, Tatum and Morris aren't great passers on top of it.

We haven’t played in an optimal way all year and it’s not gonna start now. Kyrie and Brad deserve the blame.

That was 20 games, get over it. What about the last 20 games that I could argue Hayward deserved to start ? So that's ok?

I agree they should get over it and make the correct play. Just playing armchair psychologist

[Floody100]

If Cleveland is willing to take the contract I wouldn't be opposed to trading him for a late 2nd rounder with protections.

If he was young I would’ve said be patient but he’s 29 so I wouldn’t be opposed to this trade especially if we’re going to rebuild. Taking Hayward’s contract off as well as Horfords next year when his contract finishes is going to leave us with a ton of cap space.

[Red2]

Jayson and jaylen didn’t like losing PT to Gordon who wasn’t ready . Brad owns that .

[albas89]

Looking back on this disappointing season, you may say whatever you want about Kyrie and his toxic personality and attitude on and off the court, Brad's failure to manage this team, etc. But really, when are we going to address the elephant in the room, which is the Gordon Hayward issue?

It's truly sad to admit, but Hayward will never be even half the player he once was. It might have been a physical thing for large part of the season, but it was not the case in this series. He quitted on the team as much as Kyrie imo. Being the highest paid player on the team, 1/4th of the team's salary cap, he was more passive than Semi Ojeleye in this series. He's mentally done, and probably the worst contract in the whole league at this point. People avoid talking about it out of pity for what he's been through with his injury, but he looked OK being humiliated by the Bucks. Jaylen, Tatum, I can understand those guys feeling defeated and that getting the better of them, they are extremely young and they'll learn. Gordon was supposed to be the veteran leader of this team, and if I didn't know him, watching the Milwaukee series I'd bet he's like the 7th-8th rotation guy.

I'm sorry for the guy, but his signing was probably one of the biggest disasters in recent Celtics' history, a huge contract that nobody wants and will prevent us to contend for the next 2 years. We might lose Kyrie for nothing but we would have lost anyway if we kept IT and at least it will open some cap space at some point.

[pac213up]

Obviously there was the injury and recovery but I also think Hayward just struggled with his role on the team. People underestimate how hard it can be for these guys to go from the #1 option to #3 or #4 and still do what they do. Not all of them are built to do it or it may take some longer to figure it out. When the pieces do not fit everyone looks worse than they really are.

[TheOGJabroni]

Just on this page I have seen takes that Brad's prior relationship with Hayward ruined the team with some saying that he didn't deserve the PT he got & others saying Brad should never have benched him but was able to because their bond was so strong.

So what I'm hearing is, nobody knows wtf Brad could have done with Hayward this season! He had a horrific injury; there's really no one to blame. Why does every bad situation need a scapegoat? We are fans & we should just hope for the best in this type of situation, not point fingers on who to blame.

[chrisab123]

Please dump him to Cleveland

[K For Three]

Bump. How's gh's **** ass play in a real series

Some of you only want to talk about a player when he's down. Makes me sick.

Gordon can bounce back.

talking about a player when he's down? he's been down for 2 seasons and 60 million dollars.

??????????????

and I know- "you try and face a devastating injury and play at the pro level". i know, i know. check him in to assisted living when the season's done, and maybe his 4th season he'll be back to 75%.

You were right and I was wrong.

I have little hope for this dude.

He even was given the money here from us basically due to his Uncle Brad being the coach.

[ZeroTolerance]

Some of you only want to talk about a player when he's down. Makes me sick.

Gordon can bounce back.

talking about a player when he's down? he's been down for 2 seasons and 60 million dollars.

??????????????

and I know- "you try and face a devastating injury and play at the pro level". i know, i know. check him in to assisted living when the season's done, and maybe his 4th season he'll be back to 75%.

You were right and I was wrong.

I have little hope for this dude.

He even was given the money here from us basically due to his Uncle Brad being the coach.

I think should Kyrie leave, that Hayward may find a role that is more to his liking similar to his Utah days...It could happen for him that way?

Perhaps a quiet mild mannered but confident leader is just what this team needs?

And just maybe the remaining pieces will fit perfectly?..... You never know?

[Disinformation]

He even was given the money here from us basically due to his Uncle Brad being the coach.

I'm sorry but this is the stupidest thing I've read on here today (and that's saying a lot). Hayward was a highly sought after FA who received at least 3 MAX offers (Utah, Mia, Bos). The fact that Brad was here as coach was the reason Hayward chose the Celtics, not the other way around.

The injury was the disaster, not the signing.