WCSF Game 5: HOU @ GSW

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I always wondered about a zone as well, have Steph/KD/Draymond playing down low and not rotating and have Dre and Klay up top, but Ron Adams is a lot smarter than me there's probably a very obvious reason it won't work.

I'm sure the NBA version is more nuanced than my understanding of zone concepts but wouldn't that play right into what Houston wants to do?

Yep. Zones are typically effective at limiting effectiveness around the basket. A weakness of zones is being able to shoot over them. Perimeter shooters used to be called "zone busters." You can't effectively cover the huge area around the three-point arc with a zone.

Have you ever seen a zone that was willing to concede mid range shots?
There might be some strange never been seen before zone that could mess with the Rockets if the Rockets are really unwilling to shoot mid range shots.

[clyde21]

I'm sure the NBA version is more nuanced than my understanding of zone concepts but wouldn't that play right into what Houston wants to do?

Yep. Zones are typically effective at limiting effectiveness around the basket. A weakness of zones is being able to shoot over them. Perimeter shooters used to be called "zone busters." You can't effectively cover the huge area around the three-point arc with a zone.

Have you ever seen a zone that was willing to concede mid range shots?
There might be some strange never been seen before zone that could mess with the Rockets if the Rockets are really unwilling to shoot mid range shots.

shooting mid range shots is the last thing they want to do.

[Outside]

I'm sure the NBA version is more nuanced than my understanding of zone concepts but wouldn't that play right into what Houston wants to do?

Yep. Zones are typically effective at limiting effectiveness around the basket. A weakness of zones is being able to shoot over them. Perimeter shooters used to be called "zone busters." You can't effectively cover the huge area around the three-point arc with a zone.

Have you ever seen a zone that was willing to concede mid range shots?
There might be some strange never been seen before zone that could mess with the Rockets if the Rockets are really unwilling to shoot mistake shots.

There's no way a zone could cover the entire span of the three-point arc and cover the paint. Leaving the midrange open would essentially make it two zones -- a two-man zone in the paint and a three-man zone along the arc.

Zones work in a confined area. They don't work covering out past the three-point line. I understand that it's worth a thought, but against Houston, which has 179 3PA in this series vs 154 2PA, it just won't work. Even if you cede the mid-range, you still have to cover from the paint to out past the three-point line.

[jamesnamida]

What is mckennie doing shooting a jumpshot at the 3. Hes always wide open, shoot a set shot on the way up.

Also I wouldn’t mind giving cook and Jonas some burn. Not like Livingston is doing anything defensively and if looney can’t grab boards I’d add in a lil bit of Jonas eho is faster and can hit the 3. He is also feisty.

[floppymoose]

We already play zone. When you cant give 3pt shooters any space, zone=switching

[HiRez]

Perhaps easier said than done but it's not very complicated:

1. Rebound the ball (box out your man, gang rebound, don't let guys shoot in past you). Stop giving them second and third chances to score. Play Bogut with the starters more to help with this.

2. Steph & Klay: hit your 3s at your normal rate. But don't take a 3 when you don't need one, like up 4 with under a minute left.

3. Don't commit stupid fouls. Stop reaching in, stop jumping into 3 point shooters "landing zones" even if it's larger than it should be, don't get in someone's face 50 feet from the basket. This is critical because it limits Rockets free throws, keeps the game pace moving, and keeps our main guys off the bench in foul trouble.

4. Force them off the 3 point line, don't sag off to double down low, make them take honest 3s. They will still hit a lot but last few games they had a lot of 3s where we didn't have a defender within 5+ feet of the shooter.

5. Our bench sucks: don't play these guys unless you absolutely have to outside of Bogut, Looney, and the occasional Jerebko. Livingston is ready for retirement, Bell has regressed, Cook is a huge liability on defense, and the other guys aren't ready. This is a game where our starters need to suck it up, earn their paychecks, and play some extra minutes if needed.

6. Limit turnovers obviously, although they were actually pretty good at this in the 2 losses. Don't get fancy. As Barnett would say, 2 handed chest passes, etc.

This is all really basic basketball 101, right now the Warriors are weak on the fundamentals.

[KevinMcreynolds]

Honestly, we don’t really need to change much except have Klay and Steph shoot better.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Yep. Zones are typically effective at limiting effectiveness around the basket. A weakness of zones is being able to shoot over them. Perimeter shooters used to be called "zone busters." You can't effectively cover the huge area around the three-point arc with a zone.

Have you ever seen a zone that was willing to concede mid range shots?
There might be some strange never been seen before zone that could mess with the Rockets if the Rockets are really unwilling to shoot mistake shots.

There's no way a zone could cover the entire span of the three-point arc and cover the paint. Leaving the midrange open would essentially make it two zones -- a two-man zone in the paint and a three-man zone along the arc.

Zones work in a confined area. They don't work covering out past the three-point line. I understand that it's worth a thought, but against Houston, which has 179 3PA in this series vs 154 2PA, it just won't work. Even if you cede the mid-range, you still have to cover from the paint to out past the three-point line.

I thought about it. I could not make it work. I need 4 guys to cover the 3 point line. Maybe the weak side corner guys can provide some not so good help for the paint.

Then as soon as the 5th offensive player comes out to set a pick nobody is left to defend the paint except the guys defending the corners.

If I try to defend the 3 point line with 3 guys I am leaving gaps if the shooters can catch and shoot quickly.

I can't make it work. I need more than 5 defenders.

[Coxy]

Game girls for today. We need a whole lot of Curry power.

[ducler]

Read on Twitter

[Outside]

We already play zone. When you cant give 3pt shooters any space, zone=switching

Yeah, that's one way to look at it. Even when you play zone, you play man on the guy in your area and pass him off to another defender when he vacates your area. It can be a matter of perspective.

But calling what the Warriors do with their switching defense a zone is stretching the definition a bit much, IMO. The defining characteristic of a zone is that each player has an area of the court as their responsibility. With the Warriors' helping, switching, rotating defense, players wind up all over the court. It's not like Draymond says "I got the paint" or Klay says "I got the left side top" and they stay in those areas.

[Outside]

Have you ever seen a zone that was willing to concede mid range shots?
There might be some strange never been seen before zone that could mess with the Rockets if the Rockets are really unwilling to shoot mistake shots.

There's no way a zone could cover the entire span of the three-point arc and cover the paint. Leaving the midrange open would essentially make it two zones -- a two-man zone in the paint and a three-man zone along the arc.

Zones work in a confined area. They don't work covering out past the three-point line. I understand that it's worth a thought, but against Houston, which has 179 3PA in this series vs 154 2PA, it just won't work. Even if you cede the mid-range, you still have to cover from the paint to out past the three-point line.

I thought about it. I could not make it work. I need 4 guys to cover the 3 point line. Maybe the weak side corner guys can provide some not so good help for the paint.

Then as soon as the 5th offensive player comes out to set a pick nobody is left to defend the paint except the guys defending the corners.

If I try to defend the 3 point line with 3 guys I am leaving gaps if the shooters can catch and shoot quickly.

I can't make it work. I need more than 5 defenders.

Well, all the Houston fans think they're playing 5 on 8, so we just need the refs to have more active hands.

[Outside]

Perhaps easier said than done but it's not very complicated:

1. Rebound the ball (box out your man, gang rebound, don't let guys shoot in past you). Stop giving them second and third chances to score. Play Bogut with the starters more to help with this.

2. Steph & Klay: hit your 3s at your normal rate. But don't take a 3 when you don't need one, like up 4 with under a minute left.

3. Don't commit stupid fouls. Stop reaching in, stop jumping into 3 point shooters "landing zones" even if it's larger than it should be, don't get in someone's face 50 feet from the basket. This is critical because it limits Rockets free throws, keeps the game pace moving, and keeps our main guys off the bench in foul trouble.

4. Force them off the 3 point line, don't sag off to double down low, make them take honest 3s. They will still hit a lot but last few games they had a lot of 3s where we didn't have a defender within 5+ feet of the shooter.

5. Our bench sucks: don't play these guys unless you absolutely have to outside of Bogut, Looney, and the occasional Jerebko. Livingston is ready for retirement, Bell has regressed, Cook is a huge liability on defense, and the other guys aren't ready. This is a game where our starters need to suck it up, earn their paychecks, and play some extra minutes if needed.

6. Limit turnovers obviously, although they were actually pretty good at this in the 2 losses. Don't get fancy. As Barnett would say, 2 handed chest passes, etc.

This is all really basic basketball 101, right now the Warriors are weak on the fundamentals.

Yep, and that's the order I'd put them in. Just taking care of items 1 and 2 would be enough.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Can Cook come in cold and shoot well and not pass up his shots with playoff pressure? There are times when I would be happy to trade buckets with the Rockets. They score on Cook but Cook is another shooter that must be defended. The Rockets have an advantage if they are the deeper team. Livingston can't be missing his layups and jumping into Harden if he wants to be better than Cook.

Klay and Durant can't get easy shots if Draymond, Iguodala and Livingston are not guarded. Maybe Cook should play some.

[xdrta+]

Perhaps easier said than done but it's not very complicated:

1. Rebound the ball (box out your man, gang rebound, don't let guys shoot in past you). Stop giving them second and third chances to score. Play Bogut with the starters more to help with this.

2. Steph & Klay: hit your 3s at your normal rate. But don't take a 3 when you don't need one, like up 4 with under a minute left.

3. Don't commit stupid fouls. Stop reaching in, stop jumping into 3 point shooters "landing zones" even if it's larger than it should be, don't get in someone's face 50 feet from the basket. This is critical because it limits Rockets free throws, keeps the game pace moving, and keeps our main guys off the bench in foul trouble.

4. Force them off the 3 point line, don't sag off to double down low, make them take honest 3s. They will still hit a lot but last few games they had a lot of 3s where we didn't have a defender within 5+ feet of the shooter.

5. Our bench sucks: don't play these guys unless you absolutely have to outside of Bogut, Looney, and the occasional Jerebko. Livingston is ready for retirement, Bell has regressed, Cook is a huge liability on defense, and the other guys aren't ready. This is a game where our starters need to suck it up, earn their paychecks, and play some extra minutes if needed.

6. Limit turnovers obviously, although they were actually pretty good at this in the 2 losses. Don't get fancy. As Barnett would say, 2 handed chest passes, etc.

This is all really basic basketball 101, right now the Warriors are weak on the fundamentals.

How about adding, make your layups. I've never seen them miss so many more or less open layups as the last two games. For me, that's why they lost game 4.

[Outside]

Perhaps easier said than done but it's not very complicated:

1. Rebound the ball (box out your man, gang rebound, don't let guys shoot in past you). Stop giving them second and third chances to score. Play Bogut with the starters more to help with this.

2. Steph & Klay: hit your 3s at your normal rate. But don't take a 3 when you don't need one, like up 4 with under a minute left.

3. Don't commit stupid fouls. Stop reaching in, stop jumping into 3 point shooters "landing zones" even if it's larger than it should be, don't get in someone's face 50 feet from the basket. This is critical because it limits Rockets free throws, keeps the game pace moving, and keeps our main guys off the bench in foul trouble.

4. Force them off the 3 point line, don't sag off to double down low, make them take honest 3s. They will still hit a lot but last few games they had a lot of 3s where we didn't have a defender within 5+ feet of the shooter.

5. Our bench sucks: don't play these guys unless you absolutely have to outside of Bogut, Looney, and the occasional Jerebko. Livingston is ready for retirement, Bell has regressed, Cook is a huge liability on defense, and the other guys aren't ready. This is a game where our starters need to suck it up, earn their paychecks, and play some extra minutes if needed.

6. Limit turnovers obviously, although they were actually pretty good at this in the 2 losses. Don't get fancy. As Barnett would say, 2 handed chest passes, etc.

This is all really basic basketball 101, right now the Warriors are weak on the fundamentals.

How about adding, make your layups. I've never seen them miss so many more or less open layups as the last two games. For me, that's why they lost game 4.

I had obligations Monday and couldn't watch the game, and I finally finished watching it today. Sooo many missed opportunities. Like you say, layups. Only 16-23 on FTs. So many makeable shots they missed. There are missed opportunities for every team in every game, but man, it seemed like a ton of them in game 4.

If the Warriors play well, they win. It's that simple.

[xdrta+]

Perhaps easier said than done but it's not very complicated:

1. Rebound the ball (box out your man, gang rebound, don't let guys shoot in past you). Stop giving them second and third chances to score. Play Bogut with the starters more to help with this.

2. Steph & Klay: hit your 3s at your normal rate. But don't take a 3 when you don't need one, like up 4 with under a minute left.

3. Don't commit stupid fouls. Stop reaching in, stop jumping into 3 point shooters "landing zones" even if it's larger than it should be, don't get in someone's face 50 feet from the basket. This is critical because it limits Rockets free throws, keeps the game pace moving, and keeps our main guys off the bench in foul trouble.

4. Force them off the 3 point line, don't sag off to double down low, make them take honest 3s. They will still hit a lot but last few games they had a lot of 3s where we didn't have a defender within 5+ feet of the shooter.

5. Our bench sucks: don't play these guys unless you absolutely have to outside of Bogut, Looney, and the occasional Jerebko. Livingston is ready for retirement, Bell has regressed, Cook is a huge liability on defense, and the other guys aren't ready. This is a game where our starters need to suck it up, earn their paychecks, and play some extra minutes if needed.

6. Limit turnovers obviously, although they were actually pretty good at this in the 2 losses. Don't get fancy. As Barnett would say, 2 handed chest passes, etc.

This is all really basic basketball 101, right now the Warriors are weak on the fundamentals.

How about adding, make your layups. I've never seen them miss so many more or less open layups as the last two games. For me, that's why they lost game 4.

I had obligations Monday and couldn't watch the game, and I finally finished watching it today. Sooo many missed opportunities. Like you say, layups. Only 16-23 on FTs. So many makeable shots they missed. There are missed opportunities for every team in every game, but man, it seemed like a ton of them in game 4.

If the Warriors play well, they win. It's that simple.

What hurts is, they don't have to play perfectly or even close to it. Just a little better than average would be fine. I guess I'm in the minority, but I think Houston is way overrated.

[ILOVEIT]

Games 3 and 4...
Gordan > Klay
Paul > Curry

There is nothing complicated about this... Curry and Klay HAVE to show they are better players. So far in this year's playoffs...they haven't.

If Warriors Curry and Klay have another poor showing, Warriors lose.

[Sleepy51]

Can Cook come in cold and shoot well and not pass up his shots with playoff pressure? There are times when I would be happy to trade buckets with the Rockets. They score on Cook but Cook is another shooter that must be defended. The Rockets have an advantage if they are the deeper team. Livingston can't be missing his layups and jumping into Harden if he wants to be better than Cook.

Klay and Durant can't get easy shots if Draymond, Iguodala and Livingston are not guarded. Maybe Cook should play some.

Memory is hazy, but I feel like he was shooting like crap to end the season and in his few Clipper minutes. It seemed like he hit a wall with the increased intensity of playoff opposition.

[jamesnamida]

Win the rebounds and shoot better than 27% 3s = win. Simple as that.
We do need one more shooter to space the floor on some of the rotations.