Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant

[Ball so hard]

He's better suited to be an assistant. His record with Orlando was horrible, Clifford takes over with the same exact team and they're suddenly a playoff team. Guy can't coach offense.

True but please also consider the fact that his core of Gordon, fournier, Vucevic etc missed at least 24 games. He is not a bad option but I don’t think he’s the best alternative either. Some here are suggesting hiring college coaches, for every one Brad Stevens there’s like 10 Fred Hoibergs, Tarkanian, Montgomery, Hamilton etc. Lakers have been very bad for the past 6 years now, do you really want to gamble on an unproven tactician? The ex nba coaches that were mentioned, there’s a reason why they are available mostly because they got fired from their previous gig.

It's also not nearly as stochastic as you're making it out to be. There is a lot of data on what we can expect to see from potential hires. See for example: https://www.bball-index.com/lakers-coaching-search/

A lot of interesting candidates mentioned in that piece. The data on Luke is quite alarming. I thought he was an average coach, but the data suggest otherwise. Luke is not HC quality. He's the flavor du jour... he'll quickly wear out his welcome and go back to being an assistant in no time.

I'd take a chance on Messina. I'd also love to have SVG.

[slifersd]

No matter how you look at it, this is terrible for the Lakers. I don't personally rate Lue very highly as a coach, but not being able to negotiate a deal with him is an absoltuely terrible look for this team.

If the management doesn't think highly enough of giving Lue a good contract, then why choose him as our coach to begin with? Was it all just to make James happy? If so, then why not just go all the way and hire the guy James wants and make the guy happy? This management always looks like they are trying to juggle nine things at the same time, and end up failing miserably at all of them. We need, more than anything, a direction. If we are going to roll with LeBron, then do everything we can to reach that goal. If we want a rebuild, then do what it takes to rebuild. This directionless crap has plagued us for six years and it looks like we are doing even worse now.

[Slink]

All we need now is Pelinka to quit and we'll have a true clusterfug.

[MAMBAEMD]

None of this will matter if we sign one of KD, Kawhi, Kyrie, or Klay, or trade for AD.

[Kilroy]

All we need now is Pelinka to quit and we'll have a true clusterfug.

Oh, we're already there, dude... No further actions needed.

In fact Pelinka quitting may be the first sign of healing.

[Landsberger]

Am I the only one that thinks Lue comes out of this looking a little douchey? He's got no other offers, but wants the "Championship Deal?"
It seems like he figured he was going to just step into the roll, get paid and have job security...

No question our FO is dysfunctionalAF right now... But still, Lue sounds like an opportunist in all of this.

Good riddance.

That said, this is all starting to sound a bit like Rambis trying to elbow his way into the head coaching gig again... Which would absolutely be the bitter cherry on top of this Embarrassment-Sunday...

I'm seriously starting to wonder if the only way I can still be a Laker fan is if I stay off the internet and sports news until around Christmas...

Yup..... I agree.

As for the FO situation. It's bad and It's become obvious to me that all of this is revolving around Jeannie. We've blamed just about everyone else.... then they leave and it persists. Time to focus on the only one who's been here through all of the last 6 years.

[Slink]

So according to this report, Kurt's purpose was just to be Jeanie's eyes and ears?

And what’s worse, asking Lue to take on Rambis as an assistant, a no-no according to sources close to Lue, feels like the Lakers want their walls bugged and feared a LeBron takeover — as if Lue would allow himself to be used as a puppet.

It’s yet another stunning development in the situation and one that further paints the Lakers in a terrible light. It’s the second person the team has tried to force onto a staff and neither coach has had success in the past. Even if the coaches they were attempting to plant on the bench were successful, no good coach is going to be ok with that and any coach who is fine with that won’t be successful.

The Lakers are so concerned about not having LeBron James take over the team that they’ve morphed into something far worse. The Lakers would look far better if they simply did let James control the team. They’re so concerned about looking like they have control that they’ve completely lost the plot.

https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2019/05/09/lonzo-ball-news-report-la-lakers-kurt-rambis-ty-lue-coaching-staff/

So If this is true, whoever is fearing LeBron taking over is the one pulling for LeBron to be traded?

[LAKESHOW]

Now theres a report that front office wanted Rambis as asst. head coach. And would not accept Lues choice of Brian Shaw. Front office supposedly rejected Brian Shaw on staff

Just going to throw this out there maybe the media has no idea about anything going on. Maybe the lakers are not leaking stuff and the media need something sexy to say...


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Well more reports are arriving.

[tlifeset]

I'm glad I gave this 24 hours before posting - it's given me a chance to gain some clarity.

Here are my thoughts...

The Lakers are in a pretty tough position but it feels like they've handled this all wrong.

For one, they absolutely had to fire Luke Walton - not only was he one of the worst XOs coaches in the NBA, the team also effectively tuned him out towards the end of the season. But here's the problem... how long have the Lakers known this? 3 months? 5 months? All year? It feels like they would have more of a strategy in place for their coaching search (with or without Magic) - maybe already have a singular target in mind? To be honest, I don't even care who they hire - I'm in the "anybody but Luke" camp. Look, it's not the WORST idea in the world to hold off until the playoffs end until deciding on your coach. You never know if a team is going to overreact to losing and fire their coach, i.e. Toronto last year. So am I mad they didn't hire Lue? Not really. I'm definitely disappointed in their strategic approach to the coaching search, but let's not let Lue off the hook...

What kind of assface or agent of assface goes public with this information? You honestly thought this was the best move to get to 4 or 5 years? To napalm the relationship instead of negotiating? Let me ask you this Lue... who in their right mind is ever going to hire you, much less interview you for an NBA coaching job after this crap? What a short sided, hubris move. After seeing his move here, I'm actually extremely happy that we didn't hire Lue. This is media manipulation and I want no part of that for this Lakers team.

Now let's get back to the strategic approach. Look, I actually don't even care if the Lakers played pin the tail on the van gundy to figure out who was their coach. But the optics of this process are pretty bad ESPECIALLY since many are already questioning the capabilities of our owner and GM. For the record, I am NOT questioning them and think they've done a better job than anyone is giving them credit for. BUT I'm not def, dumb and blind (not yet anyway) - and the court of public opinion does matter. The real question is this... does it matter to free agents? probably not. but it might matter to an agent who do have sway over their clients, to some degree. So it's not really the end of the world, but it just feels pretty sloppy. This Lue fiasco is kinda like Game of Thrones leaving a Starbucks coffee on set. Ultimately, it shouldn't really matter but in context (i.e. not a great episode) it just looks careless.

All in all, I'm not going to over-react to this. There are much more important initiatives this offseason than whether or not we give Lue another year or two. Get a competent coach, get healthy, grow the youth, bring in the right free agents and let's get back to basketball. Not this stupid Bravo version of basketball.

Go Lakers.

[Pythagoras]

Dave McMenamim just mentioned the Lakers wanting Kidd on the staff even if they had hired Lue to help with player development... So my question is, who in the hell is pushing for Kidd in that FO??? We’ve heard him linked to this organization too many times to just dismiss it as a rumor being pushed by Kidd’s camp to drum up his interest. The FO is a clown show right now, but what drives me crazy is they don’t have to be. Just hire the best basketball minds and get the hell out of their way and let them do their thing!

[Dr Aki]

I **** called it. They want Kidd in there to mentor Lonzo

[Slava]

If they wanted Kidd in a player development role for Lonzo, they can hire him as a special consultant like they did with Kareem for Bynum. The problem with allowing Jason Kidd anywhere near the franchise is that he has a history of being divisive and if you give him a twig, he'll try to grab the whole branch and more. He'll sow discontent, undermine the coach and try to position himself to be the coaching candidate.

[kobe808lak]

This is what happens when people have jobs they are no where near close to being qualified for...

Clown shoes org.

Bring back Jim Buss lul.

[tamaraw08]

I think there is more to the story, it'll probably leak out that they whole 3 years vs 5 years deal was not the only hurdle or it was never the hurdle Lues' people made it out to be, that leak feels like a whole lot of face saving from the Lue camp. Lakers may not have ever been sold on Lue in the first place so unless it was on their terms it was never gonna happen... To me it was a good offer, Lue was only interviewing because of Lebron, the Lakers were only talking to him because of Lebron and Lebron is only here for three more years

I actually see this as one of the first positive decisions to come out of the FO in weeks

I respect you from way way back from another site. So I am going to ask you to please explain specifically your REASONS why this is a positive decision the FO made.
I actually think Lue came out the winner from this as he uses .5% of the $ owed to him by Cleveland to go on an extended cruise while he will miss the wonderful opportunity to
1. Feel so much pressure to win and hear the wrath of everybody every time they go on a 2-3 game losing streak including Magic who attacked MDA before in the media.
2. Witness the decline of the 34 icon, getting blocked by marginal guys like Hezonja or was it Hernangomez?
3. Hear from young guys like Brandon Ingram that he is not a bench player...
4. Watch Lonzo miss 60 % of his shots from 15 feet with no one guarding him.
5. Realizing that Kuzma has no good base to hold his ground in the post unlike Kevin Love.
6. Be critiqued by Rob Pelinka, who was reported to meddle with Luke Walton's coaching meeting, demanding to get an improved Scouting report.
6. Getting back stabbed in every opportunity by Rambis AND Jason Kidd.

[tamaraw08]

True but please also consider the fact that his core of Gordon, fournier, Vucevic etc missed at least 24 games. He is not a bad option but I don’t think he’s the best alternative either. Some here are suggesting hiring college coaches, for every one Brad Stevens there’s like 10 Fred Hoibergs, Tarkanian, Montgomery, Hamilton etc. Lakers have been very bad for the past 6 years now, do you really want to gamble on an unproven tactician? The ex nba coaches that were mentioned, there’s a reason why they are available mostly because they got fired from their previous gig.

It's also not nearly as stochastic as you're making it out to be. There is a lot of data on what we can expect to see from potential hires. See for example: https://www.bball-index.com/lakers-coaching-search/

A lot of interesting candidates mentioned in that piece. The data on Luke is quite alarming. I thought he was an average coach, but the data suggest otherwise. Luke is not HC quality. He's the flavor du jour... he'll quickly wear out his welcome and go back to being an assistant in no time.

I'd take a chance on Messina. I'd also love to have SVG.

Messina may turn out to be a good coach. Lakers had him as an assistant before and therefore had a look on his potential. Interesting words you used "take a chance"...They took a chance on Luke, whom I thought was not a bad coach IMO. 6 years of losing and frustration and we need to take a chance again on rookie coaches, ex NBA head coaches who have FAILED to help their old teams and oh BTW, those teams are better now without them(Hollins, Vogel, Kidd) plus they have NEVER WON A CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE. How many of them had an experience of coaching Lebron before?
So the question is where do we go from here? Rambis taking over and to appease the public, Phil agrees to be the pseudo Coach, Jeani wheels him in to the press, telling everyone he is in charge and during coaching meetings.

[NBAWestFan]

I would say if Vogel is a good Game coach once he gets a superstar or two then this might be the guy.
His age looks good. If his BBall IQ and management is good then he could be it.

Then, It is up to the Lakers to hirer better assistants and trainers to develop the players they have to fit in.

If you are getting paid millions you can learn to be a good three point shooter with the right training. But you have to be willing to learn and have great coaches.

If Vogel comes in a Kawhi or Klay then it will be a big change and toward the right direction

[Ball so hard]

It's also not nearly as stochastic as you're making it out to be. There is a lot of data on what we can expect to see from potential hires. See for example: https://www.bball-index.com/lakers-coaching-search/

A lot of interesting candidates mentioned in that piece. The data on Luke is quite alarming. I thought he was an average coach, but the data suggest otherwise. Luke is not HC quality. He's the flavor du jour... he'll quickly wear out his welcome and go back to being an assistant in no time.

I'd take a chance on Messina. I'd also love to have SVG.

Messina may turn out to be a good coach. Lakers had him as an assistant before and therefore had a look on his potential. Interesting words you used "take a chance"...They took a chance on Luke, whom I thought was not a bad coach IMO. 6 years of losing and frustration and we need to take a chance again on rookie coaches, ex NBA head coaches who have FAILED to help their old teams and oh BTW, those teams are better now without them(Hollins, Vogel, Kidd) plus they have NEVER WON A CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE. How many of them had an experience of coaching Lebron before?
So the question is where do we go from here? Rambis taking over and to appease the public, Phil agrees to be the pseudo Coach, Jeani wheels him in to the press, telling everyone he is in charge and during coaching meetings.

IMO we'd be taking a chance since he doesn't have experience as a head coach in the NBA. However, his coaching experience in Europe is nothing short of spectacular. You mentioned rookie coaches, sure he's be another rookie coach, but context is important. Luke had little to no experience coaching at any level. Messina on the other hand has been very successful as a coach, albeit not in the NBA. I doubt you're suggesting we should not consider any ex NBA head coach who have "failed." Let's say we eliminate rookie and "unsuccessful" ex NBA coaches, who are we left to choose from? Should we put all our eggs in the basket of wait until a "successful" coach is fired before we attempt to make our move?

I strongly doubt, Jeanie--who's not very smart--would make such a foolish move in making Rambis out next HC.

[Kilroy]

Assistant coaches again... I've never seen an organization make such a huge deal about assistant coaches...

To me, the concept that we would impose assistant coaches on a potential HC hire, just makes us look like a rookie org, who's never done this before... Because I've never heard of an org demanding a head coach hire someone else before.

[indilakeshow]

JB Bickerstaff added to the interview list. WHY

[tamaraw08]

A lot of interesting candidates mentioned in that piece. The data on Luke is quite alarming. I thought he was an average coach, but the data suggest otherwise. Luke is not HC quality. He's the flavor du jour... he'll quickly wear out his welcome and go back to being an assistant in no time.

I'd take a chance on Messina. I'd also love to have SVG.

Messina may turn out to be a good coach. Lakers had him as an assistant before and therefore had a look on his potential. Interesting words you used "take a chance"...They took a chance on Luke, whom I thought was not a bad coach IMO. 6 years of losing and frustration and we need to take a chance again on rookie coaches, ex NBA head coaches who have FAILED to help their old teams and oh BTW, those teams are better now without them(Hollins, Vogel, Kidd) plus they have NEVER WON A CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE. How many of them had an experience of coaching Lebron before?
So the question is where do we go from here? Rambis taking over and to appease the public, Phil agrees to be the pseudo Coach, Jeani wheels him in to the press, telling everyone he is in charge and during coaching meetings.

IMO we'd be taking a chance since he doesn't have experience as a head coach in the NBA. However, his coaching experience in Europe is nothing short of spectacular. You mentioned rookie coaches, sure he's be another rookie coach, but context is important. Luke had little to no experience coaching at any level. Messina on the other hand has been very successful as a coach, albeit not in the NBA. I doubt you're suggesting we should not consider any ex NBA head coach who have "failed." Let's say we eliminate rookie and "unsuccessful" ex NBA coaches, who are we left to choose from? Should we put all our eggs in the basket of wait until a "successful" coach is fired before we attempt to make our move?

I strongly doubt, Jeanie--who's not very smart--would make such a foolish move in making Rambis out next HC.

Let me just say again the Messina may turn out to be a good coach but I like to pick a coach who have the least risk of failing. But then again Lakers picked a veteran coach who was decent before in Byron Scott...
Another consideration is that, When was the last time Lebron fully respected a non black coach? I still remember how he shoulder check Spoelstra during a timeout. Riley had to adamantly tell James he will stick to Eric no matter what... He was disengaged with Luke at times and didn't really mesh with David Blatt...
I must admit, I am really struggling to move on from Lue who have proven to work well and actually winning with Lebron but the alternatives are really limited right now. Stevens will not get fired. I still have reservations with Brett Brown, Thibs (did pretty bad on defense with TWolves)...
Im thinking they would also consider Larry Drew, ex Laker player/assistant coach. Did pretty well with Atlanta, was a disaster at Milwaukee and was an assistant to Lue at Cleveland.