Did MJ really go against tougher competition?

[freethedevil]

And Jordan still led the NBA in 40-point games in the 2001-02 season despite only playing 60 games.

If the debate was "GOAT scorer" this might be a compelling argument. Alas, Jordan very clearly worse as an overall player in the 2000's in the 90's so I'm not sure what you're gunning for here.

He did it against the toughest rules in NBA history .

jordan got worse with the toughest rules in nba history, what are you trying to argue here.

[freethedevil]

Surely the greatest player ever doesn't get embarrassed over and over like Lebron has throughout his career. .

Are you referring to 2011? Why would we bring up lebron's 9th best final performance when jordan's only made it to 6?

Performance don't be squat if you fail to lead the team to victory. Fact is he's failed to lead with more than enough help around him multiple times. Has gotten swept. Lost in 2011 after predicting not 1, not 2, blah, blah. Failed to lead against the Spurs in 2014 in embarrasing fashion. Sorry but that's not the resume of a man whos supposed to be better than everyone else in history.

Michael Jordan is the better player and leader period.

Russel and Kareem won more so I guess they're both better players, period.

[JeepCSC]

Tougher competition these days = a bunch of players joining up in their prime. I'm glad that kind of cheap competition didn't exist in the 90s.

I'm sorry, are you seriously trying to argue that the average player isn't beter when the talent pool is vastly bigger domestically and in terms of foreign talent?

Incidentally high school basketball participation peaked around 1979 and then declined roughly 30% over the next two decades. The discussion in the late ‘90s that there was a talent gap after Jordan’s generation had roots in real issues. The numbers never fully recovered, though the expansion in foreign markets has helped to close the gap.

[LKN]

basketball is simple. Kareem and russell won more than jordan.

/thread.

You should stop posting... KAJ and MJ have the same number of titles.

Same amount of titles, 4 more finals.Who won more?

They won the exact same amount of titles - which is the only thing that matters.

Stop trolling - your act is weak

[LKN]

Are you referring to 2011? Why would we bring up lebron's 9th best final performance when jordan's only made it to 6?

Performance don't be squat if you fail to lead the team to victory. Fact is he's failed to lead with more than enough help around him multiple times. Has gotten swept. Lost in 2011 after predicting not 1, not 2, blah, blah. Failed to lead against the Spurs in 2014 in embarrasing fashion. Sorry but that's not the resume of a man whos supposed to be better than everyone else in history.

Michael Jordan is the better player and leader period.

Russel and Kareem won more so I guess they're both better players, period.

Stop the moronic trolling.

MJ and KAJ won the same number of rings.

In addition, MJ has been the best player on 6 championship teams in the post merger NBA. No other player can say that. So actually MJ has won the most in the post merger NBA.

/thread

[OdomFan]

Finals Trips aren't an accomplishment anyways, the victory is.

[freethedevil]

Performance don't be squat if you fail to lead the team to victory. Fact is he's failed to lead with more than enough help around him multiple times. Has gotten swept. Lost in 2011 after predicting not 1, not 2, blah, blah. Failed to lead against the Spurs in 2014 in embarrasing fashion. Sorry but that's not the resume of a man whos supposed to be better than everyone else in history.

Michael Jordan is the better player and leader period.

Russel and Kareem won more so I guess they're both better players, period.

Stop the moronic trolling.

MJ and KAJ won the same number of rings.

In addition, MJ has been the best player on 6 championship teams in the post merger NBA. No other player can say that. So actually MJ has won the most in the post merger NBA.

/thread

Russel was the best player on 11 championship teams. I'm not sure what your argument here is.

[LKN]

Finals Trips aren't an accomplishment anyways, the victory is.

[LKN]

Russel and Kareem won more so I guess they're both better players, period.

Stop the moronic trolling.

MJ and KAJ won the same number of rings.

In addition, MJ has been the best player on 6 championship teams in the post merger NBA. No other player can say that. So actually MJ has won the most in the post merger NBA.

/thread

Russel was the best player on 11 championship teams. I'm not sure what your argument here is.

You suck at reading. Try harder

[freethedevil]

Finals Trips aren't an accomplishment anyways, the victory is.

If second is last, what does that make not getting to the final?

[freethedevil]

people are confusing the fact Mike and Co. got their team to be the best/favorites meaning he beat inferior competition.
he beat a 58, 57, 62, 64, 64 and 62 win teams. he beat multiple MVP's and all stars.

You realize how many wins a team manages in their era doesn't say anything about how they'd compare to a future or prior team?

[OdomFan]

Russel and Kareem won more so I guess they're both better players, period.

Stop the moronic trolling.

MJ and KAJ won the same number of rings.

In addition, MJ has been the best player on 6 championship teams in the post merger NBA. No other player can say that. So actually MJ has won the most in the post merger NBA.

/thread

Russel was the best player on 11 championship teams. I'm not sure what your argument here is.

Russell played on a stacked Celtics team against 8 other teams for majority of his career. Not even remotely close to the impact MJ did for the Bulls in the 90s.

[OdomFan]

people are confusing the fact Mike and Co. got their team to be the best/favorites meaning he beat inferior competition.
he beat a 58, 57, 62, 64, 64 and 62 win teams. he beat multiple MVP's and all stars.

You realize how many wins a team manages in their era doesn't say anything about how they'd compare to a future or prior team?

Yet you're acting like Russell winning majority of his 11 championships in a league of 8 teams is equal to MJ leading the Bulls to 2 three peats in the 90s. Not even close. Russell deserves respect but his era is not better then the 80s 90s, early 2000s or even the modern era.

[LKN]

Finals Trips aren't an accomplishment anyways, the victory is.

If second is last, what does that make not getting to the final?

Should we just do the usual.

"MJ 1-9 without Pippen"

"Lebron is 3-6"

"94 Bulls"

"2011"

"Weak Era"

"Soft Era"

[Tomazan]

Tougher competition these days = a bunch of players joining up in their prime. I'm glad that kind of cheap competition didn't exist in the 90s.

Depends how you look at it. For example for generational talents like Bron, Giannis etc it is much more difficult to win rings since they have to beat super stacked teams like GSW or Spurs (with TD, TP and Manu)

[freethedevil]

Stop the moronic trolling.

MJ and KAJ won the same number of rings.

In addition, MJ has been the best player on 6 championship teams in the post merger NBA. No other player can say that. So actually MJ has won the most in the post merger NBA.

/thread

Russel was the best player on 11 championship teams. I'm not sure what your argument here is.

Russell played on a stacked Celtics team against 8 other teams for majority of his career. Not even remotely close to the impact MJ did for the Bulls in the 90s.

MJ played on a stacked bulls in a league whose declining talent was diluted by expansion.

What Jordan did was not even remotely close to the impact lebron had on the cavs/heat in the 2000's to 2010's.

We can play this game all day, there is no way Jordan wins out here. There was less talent in jordan's time than there was in lebron's time, and kareem and russel both enjoyed more team success.

[OdomFan]

Tougher competition these days = a bunch of players joining up in their prime. I'm glad that kind of cheap competition didn't exist in the 90s.

Depends how you look at it. For example for generational talents like Bron, Giannis etc it is much more difficult to win rings since they have to beat super stacked teams like GSW or Spurs (with TD, TP and Manu)

Yeah, a team that had a player in his prime cheapily join thew super team that be his Thunder a year before he joined which is something the 90s didn't have nor needed.

The Spurs are no worst or better than the Jazz team MJ beat back to back in 97 and 98 and I'll stand by that.

[LKN]

I know this is mostly a dumb troll thread... but if anyone is actually interested, 538 did an analysis on expected championships vs competition. Not surprisingly - MJ tops the list, outperforming expectations by almost 2 championships. Lebron won about as much as expected (0.2 over expected)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-much-should-lebrons-finals-record-hurt-his-legacy/

[OdomFan]

Russel was the best player on 11 championship teams. I'm not sure what your argument here is.

Russell played on a stacked Celtics team against 8 other teams for majority of his career. Not even remotely close to the impact MJ did for the Bulls in the 90s.

MJ played on a stacked bulls in a league whose declining talent was diluted by expansion.

What Jordan did was not even remotely close to the impact lebron had on the cavs/heat in the 2000's to 2010's.

We can play this game all day, there is no way Jordan wins out here. There was less talent in jordan's time than there was in lebron's time, and kareem and russel both enjoyed more team success.

None of this is correct. Expasion teams didn't take squat away from the Knicks, Bulls, Magic, Jazz, Pacers, Sonics, Rockets, etc from having consistent records throughout that 90s decade. Those added teams not being there wouldn't have made a difference what so ever in MJs teams dominance over that decade and I'll stand right by that. Either way its more impressive than Russell winning 11 in a league of 8 teams. Just face the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.

[Eric Millegan]

Reggie Miller absolutely was a superstar because he always turned it up in the playoffs. His rounds against the Knicks win 1994 & 1995 were legendary. In 1994, he had his 8/8 25 point fourth quarter AT MSG where the Knicks hadn't given up 20 to any TEAM all season long. Then in 1995, Reggie had the 3 then steal the ball then hit a 3 again game. Those are two of my favorite NBA games of all time.