Tatum and Brown

[Jaqua92]

Lol what an awful take. In what world Tatum is a one dimensional player.

What does Tatum do well besides going iso on his defender? He has the same game as Carmelo Anthony except Carmelo Anthony was a significantly better player.

Above average shooter and defender. Improved his rebounding and playmaking in his 2nd season. People expected too much out of him because of his great postseason but he did improve some areas of his game. He’s only 21 saying he’s a one dimensional player at that age is incredibly stupid. Also Brown has been excellent in our last 2 playoffs runs. He’s also young and bounce back from an awful start also he was one of the few players that actually played well in the Bucks series.

I don't agree with his take but Tatum shot under 40% from mid I thought. 36% iso. Right now hes an average shooter. What makes him good is the ability to create his own shot off the dribble, and his flashy moments on defense. He can't score very efficiently as of last year, but I'm sure that will improve


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[jfs1000d]

Lol what an awful take. In what world Tatum is a one dimensional player.

What does Tatum do well besides going iso on his defender? He has the same game as Carmelo Anthony except Carmelo Anthony was a significantly better player.

Above average shooter and defender. Improved his rebounding and playmaking in his 2nd season. People expected too much out of him because of his great postseason but he did improve some areas of his game. He’s only 21 saying he’s a one dimensional player at that age is incredibly stupid. Also Brown has been excellent in our last 2 playoffs runs. He’s also young and bounce back from an awful start also he was one of the few players that actually played well in the Bucks series.

The people banging Tatum's development are insane.

He had Kyrie, Brown, Hayward taking shots from him. He was the damn fourth or fifth option on this team.

Watch when he gets the ball a lot, learns to trust his teammates, and scores 20 PPG +.

[jfs1000d]

What does Tatum do well besides going iso on his defender? He has the same game as Carmelo Anthony except Carmelo Anthony was a significantly better player.

Above average shooter and defender. Improved his rebounding and playmaking in his 2nd season. People expected too much out of him because of his great postseason but he did improve some areas of his game. He’s only 21 saying he’s a one dimensional player at that age is incredibly stupid. Also Brown has been excellent in our last 2 playoffs runs. He’s also young and bounce back from an awful start also he was one of the few players that actually played well in the Bucks series.

I don't agree with his take but Tatum shot under 40% from mid I thought. 36% iso. Right now hes an average shooter. What makes him good is the ability to create his own shot off the dribble, and his flashy moments on defense. He can't score very efficiently as of last year, but I'm sure that will improve


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Jaqua, he shot 40% and %36 on ISO not because he is an average shooter, rather, it was his shot selection.

People look to much at percentages, not quality of shots. Tatum's issue is shot selection, not range and ability.

[darylbe]

What are some comparable contracts for tatum and brown? because what, they will be due after next season?

marcus smart got 4x52, which I think was an overpay.
embiid got 5 for 147M
wiggins 4x148M
otto porter 4 year 100M (3rd pick in 2013)

are these set by draft order?

because if you people are talking about 250-300M for these 3 players, we will have issues.

Smart's contract is a steal. -- All-NBA first team defender and a point guard and shooting guard. He is becoming a better distance shooter.
Embiid is with every penny, but big injury risk
Wiggins -- massive overpay which will ruin franchise
Otto Porter-- you kidding me?

I didn't ask for an assessment of the contracts I posted. I included porter bc he was selected 3rd in the draft.

So what type of contract are they getting, that's really the question.

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[Celticfan_N_FL]

What does Tatum do well besides going iso on his defender? He has the same game as Carmelo Anthony except Carmelo Anthony was a significantly better player.

Above average shooter and defender. Improved his rebounding and playmaking in his 2nd season. People expected too much out of him because of his great postseason but he did improve some areas of his game. He’s only 21 saying he’s a one dimensional player at that age is incredibly stupid. Also Brown has been excellent in our last 2 playoffs runs. He’s also young and bounce back from an awful start also he was one of the few players that actually played well in the Bucks series.

The people banging Tatum's development are insane.

He had Kyrie, Brown, Hayward taking shots from him. He was the damn fourth or fifth option on this team.

Watch when he gets the ball a lot, learns to trust his teammates, and scores 20 PPG +.

Tatum attempted the 2nd highest shots per game at 13.1. Morris was 11.3, Brown was 10.7, Horford was 10.6 and Hayward was 8.8. Only Kyrie had more at 18.5. He was clearly the 2nd option for the season as a whole.

Hell during the playoffs Tatum was 2nd highest at 12.4 per game while only Irving had more at 19.9 per game. Horford was 12.2, Brown was 9.7, Morris was 8.8 and Hayward was 7.8.

No one took shots from Tatum other than Kyrie and while hindsight is 20/20 no one would argue in the moment that Tatum should be shooting more than Kyrie.

[Iguodaladon]

I'm all in on a Tatum and Brown core, I'm just worried that this season hasn't done irreparable damage to their development. One of my lasting memories of this season is those first 2 games where Tatum looked ready to seize the keys to stardom, only for the team to start complaining about guys 'not passing the ball' bla bla bla- after that he started deferring and ended up having the disappointing season we are now all very familiar with. Whether any spark of those first 2 games is still in there is the big question.

Brown showed up big in the 2nd half of the season and didn't let any of the haters affect his game; I loved what we saw from him, his 3 ball started to come around and he was much more aggressive attacking the basket.

I don't see what's so wrong with rooting for our guys; I'd much rather develop these 2 next year than be forced to watch Kyrie completely dismantle everything the Celtics have developed these past couple years

[DaTruth34]

Realgm celtics fans underestimate Brown and Tatum. What you don't understand is the role they played this year. They were ready to step up, make mistake, grow up instead they couldn't because reasons we know. Think about Dipo with Westbrook. Think if Jamal Murray was a celtic player behind kyrie, Hayward etc etc

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[keevsnick1]

Ballhandling is not a skill that tends to improve greatly after 22. It's more often something you can either do or you can't do. And mediocre ability in this area at 6-7, 6-8 is going to depress your ability to ever become a real star. In 3 years I think Brown will have topped off the abilities that he can still improve in, FT shooting, overall shooting, offensive awareness, and defense. That would be good enough to maybe make him the 3rd best player on a championship team at best. He is by no means a team leader either. I like him but AD or no AD, I think you move him before committing to re-sign him at FA or S&T him.

Tatum still has loads of potential for sure but make no mistake, even with the congested offense and lots of guys wanting shots, the lack of killer instinct in his game was not something I was prepared for this season. He's got all the talent to get to a level Brown can't see but now I wonder just how badly he wants that.

Oh I very much disagree here, I ball handling is something that can very much improve and often does, especially for wing players. And I don't think its really Browns handle that the problem, he actually made pretty good steps in that regard this year. he lowered his turnover rate and did a much better job keeping his dribble alive this year. With him its more his passing vision, he need to get better hitting guys off the dribble, if he can do that it allows him to operate a lot more as a secondary r primary ball handler which in turn will allow him to take better advantage of his slashing skills.

Often?!?! Are you for real. Name me a bunch of players whose ballhandling has improved significantly to "star" quality after 22. Brown is a below average ballhandler taking into account any "strides" you're suggesting he made. He was god awful with the basketball in his hands after taking more than 2 dribbles. The vast majority of the players his size or less that are stars are excellent ballhandlers. Kawhi's handle isn't Kyrie-level but it's underrated. With experience he can learn how to read defenses better in order to make the right pass at the right time but I think you're fooling yourself if you think he will ever become a better overall passer. Peak Richaerd Jefferson, Desmond Mason is really his ceiling and that's no knock on him. He's just not a foundational player.

I think pretty much any star wing has gotten a lot better at ball handling since entering the league. Paul George, Kawhi, Butler all are prime examples. Kawhi especially, he had literally no lect hand entering the league. People didnt think PG would create off the dribble. How much of that came after 22 I can't say in each case, but it was more than zero and I just don't think hes as bad as you make it sound. I'm a little shocked by this take to be honest, especially the passing part. It is well established the ball handling and passing are the last skill wings develop, I will give you that many don't get past passable and some never get better all. That's why there arent many elite wings, but to be honest I think hes already passable at least compared to SF's. You don't average 18 a game in a playoff run without some ability to dribble. I guess what I'm saying is, I disagree if you assertion is very few get better at dribbling. It is far from an entrenched skill. Most get a little better which jaylen already has, some get much better, a couple reach an elite level. We will see where jaylen gets.

[FeedReed]

i am all for getting rid of tatum. ugly kobe inspired shot selection is just about the only thing he offers. brown has more fire, much better finisher, better defender, and as good of a shooter. doubt they'll keep both... brown is the one i want.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

There is hope for Jayson Tatum yet. He just needs the right people to be in his ear and probably a sterner coach that will impose the right habits on his players.

[Joshyjess]

My hope for Tatum next season (assuming he isn't part of a big trade deal), is that he first of all loses the ego. His rookie year, he had almost no ego, and he let himself be coached. This year he seemed to start the year with a giant ego, and it never seemed like he lost it. Stevens coaches players so much better when they leave their ego's at home. Secondly, I want him to stop the stupid 18 foot fall-away shots. Take a step or two back, and shoot a straight-up 3 pointer. His first year he thrived on the simple three pointer. This year, not so much. And finally, more straight-forward rim attacks. He tries way too many fancy dribbles, and Kyrie-like moves. Forget all of that. Take a page from Jaylen's second-half of the season. Attack the rim. I would love to see him focus on only two shots this season. His three-pointers, and his rim attacks.
Oh, and one more thing - Stop whining so much after every missed layup. He looks like Cousins out there with the amount of whining he does.
I really like the kid, and want to see the best from him. This season, he just wasn't as much fun to watch as he was his rookie year.

[exculpatory]

My hope for Tatum next season (assuming he isn't part of a big trade deal), is that he first of all loses the ego. His rookie year, he had almost no ego, and he let himself be coached. This year he seemed to start the year with a giant ego, and it never seemed like he lost it. Stevens coaches players so much better when they leave their EGOS at home. Secondly, I want him to stop the stupid 18 foot fall-away shots. Take a step or two back, and shoot a straight-up 3 pointer. His first year he thrived on the simple three pointer. This year, not so much. And finally, more straight-forward rim attacks. He tries way too many fancy dribbles, and Kyrie-like moves. Forget all of that. Take a page from Jaylen's second-half of the season. Attack the rim. I would love to see him focus on only two shots this season. His three-pointers, and his rim attacks.
Oh, and one more thing - Stop whining so much after every missed layup. He looks like Cousins out there with the amount of whining he does.
I really like the kid, and want to see the best from him. This season, he just wasn't as much fun to watch as he was his rookie year.

Totally agree with all of this.

And let the freaking Truth mentor him as much as possible - NOT Kobe.

[exculpatory]

What does Tatum do well besides going iso on his defender? He has the same game as Carmelo Anthony except Carmelo Anthony was a significantly better player.

Above average shooter and defender. Improved his rebounding and playmaking in his 2nd season. People expected too much out of him because of his great postseason but he did improve some areas of his game. He’s only 21 saying he’s a one dimensional player at that age is incredibly stupid. Also Brown has been excellent in our last 2 playoffs runs. He’s also young and bounce back from an awful start also he was one of the few players that actually played well in the Bucks series.

I don't agree with his take but Tatum shot under 40% from mid I thought. 36% iso. Right now hes an average shooter. What makes him good is the ability to create his own shot off the dribble, and his flashy moments on defense. He can't score very efficiently as of last year, but I'm sure that will improve
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Given his innate phenomenal skill set, if he is mentored by the Truth this summer, he can dramatically improve his offensive efficiency.

(And in response to a question u asked last week, I am an endocrinologist & Internist. When something medical pops up within my bailiwick, I sometimes post an explanation. Most recently, I was fortunately WRONG about KD having an Achilles rupture - orthopedics is NOT within my expertise. LOL.)

[cloverleaf]

Read on Twitter

There is hope for Jayson Tatum yet. He just needs the right people to be in his ear and probably a sterner coach that will impose the right habits on his players.

Fantastic graphic there. Tatum started about the same and then went in the wrong direction! Of course, Curry hadn't even been drafted when he was Tatum's current age...

[BRUNiNHO91]

Above average shooter and defender. Improved his rebounding and playmaking in his 2nd season. People expected too much out of him because of his great postseason but he did improve some areas of his game. He’s only 21 saying he’s a one dimensional player at that age is incredibly stupid. Also Brown has been excellent in our last 2 playoffs runs. He’s also young and bounce back from an awful start also he was one of the few players that actually played well in the Bucks series.

The people banging Tatum's development are insane.

He had Kyrie, Brown, Hayward taking shots from him. He was the damn fourth or fifth option on this team.

Watch when he gets the ball a lot, learns to trust his teammates, and scores 20 PPG +.

Tatum attempted the 2nd highest shots per game at 13.1. Morris was 11.3, Brown was 10.7, Horford was 10.6 and Hayward was 8.8. Only Kyrie had more at 18.5. He was clearly the 2nd option for the season as a whole.

Hell during the playoffs Tatum was 2nd highest at 12.4 per game while only Irving had more at 19.9 per game. Horford was 12.2, Brown was 9.7, Morris was 8.8 and Hayward was 7.8.

No one took shots from Tatum other than Kyrie and while hindsight is 20/20 no one would argue in the moment that Tatum should be shooting more than Kyrie.

Yeah. Dude was actually the only player that got a raise in both minutes and shots per game this year. Didn't deliver and dropped from 43% from 3 to 37%. He had a really, really poor year compared to what we expected and needed from him. He improved his rebounding by 1per game and his play making was **** all year, 2 ast per game was just over his 1.6 apg from last year. So no.. Dude didn't really improve anything and essentially showed us nothing worth a damn.

[Celts17Pride]

Tatum’s biggest problem was the point guard he played with in my opinion.

Irving is not the point guard to maximize the strengths of Tatum, Brown and Hayward

[Wes-J]

Tatum’s biggest problem was the point guard he played with in my opinion.

Irving is not the point guard to maximize the strengths of Tatum, Brown and Hayward

Kyrie didn't deliver in the playoffs but there's no evidence to support he's the reason for Tatum's regression, or anybody for that matter. Smart shared the backcourt and got better this year. Brown was better. Hayward was not fully healthy. Horford was as good as ever. The team failed in the playoffs as well the coaching staff.

Trust your eyes. You know Tatum either slumped or just ain't that good. Stop blaming others.

[Celts17Pride]

Tatum’s biggest problem was the point guard he played with in my opinion.

Irving is not the point guard to maximize the strengths of Tatum, Brown and Hayward

Kyrie didn't deliver in the playoffs but there's no evidence to support he's the reason for Tatum's regression, or anybody for that matter. Smart shared the backcourt and got better this year. Brown was better. Hayward was not fully healthy. Horford was as good as ever. The team failed in the playoffs as well the coaching staff.

Trust your eyes. You know Tatum either slumped or just ain't that good. Stop blaming others.

Trust your eyes,

Irving shut out Tatum all season especially in the playoffs. When Tatum did get the ball he forced shots because he didn’t know when he would get the ball back again. Irving killed the ball movement and easy flow to the offense with his selfishness and it all trickledowned from the top.

Expect more of the same if the Celtics resign Kyrie for 5 more years

[floyd]

I am not that worried about Tatum. Sophomore slump after the league adjusted to him on a dysfunctional team. That stuff happens. If he doesn’t improve year three then we’ve got a problem.

[bucknersrevenge]

Tatum’s biggest problem was the point guard he played with in my opinion.

Irving is not the point guard to maximize the strengths of Tatum, Brown and Hayward

I will say that I think in order for Tatum to truly max out his potential whatever that may be, he's gonna have to become a much higher Usage player, whether that be here or somewhere else. That means him having an opportunity to touch the ball on every trip down. He's actually a pretty good passer. If we end up having to start over without Kyrie or AD, which we might, I wouldn't mind seeing a Smart/Brown backcourt for 34 mpg and just see what that looks like.