2018-19 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[bondom34]

I think Kawhi's definitely in the running for being one of the best players in the year but I'm struggling where I'd rank his season. His RS overall wasn't top 5 for me, and I tend to weight that more. He's been one of the 3 best players (probably 2) in the postseason though, so if Toronto wins it all it's tough to ignore him. I'm still with:

1. Giannis

Had him as MVP during the regular season and he's done nothing to dispell that, he's still been a top 3 postseason performer.

2. Harden
3. Jokic

I had them as 2 and 4 in the regular season and Jokic has been really incredible and held up well defensively. Harden hasn't been great but his RS was far enough ahead I'd still have him there. Then I get into a bunch of guys.

I'm in on any of Durant/Curry/Kawhi/Embiid/Lillard being in the running for the final 2 spots. This is going to depend on who advances further, George dropped after his injury and I'm struggling seeing him top 5 at all now.

[inDe_eD]

Last year is last year. Once this season was well underway, I don't think that last season plays into many people's minds.

It's not "panning" him for load management to recognize that he only played 60 out of 82 games. At the end of the RS, he wasn't in most people's top list for MVP or POY because of that, and that's just recognizing the reality of the situation. Of course he had the opportunity to rise up the ranks for POY by having a great postseason, which he has done for me and others, just as other players have an opportunity solidify their standing, rise, or fall. He's no different, but there's nothing wrong with taking RS performance into account. PS counts for a lot, but it's not everything.

Well, I'm not accusing the entire board here of being the mainstream sports media (I even said as much in my initial post), but you're underselling the sour grapes towards Kawhi this season. I won't try and convince you though, you don't seem to be one of those people and if you haven't been paying a lot of attention to Kawhi's season, I can see why you wouldn't pick up on it.

I've paid attention to Kawhi this season. He's been excellent when he's played, though his RS defense wasn't up to his previous DPOY standards. He showed up particularly well in big games. The only reason he wasn't in my top group of POY candidates at the end of the RS is that he missed 27 percent of the games.

Right now, he's top five for me. I count PS for a lot.

That's very fair. I can't fault anyone for factoring in the missed games, they certainly do still count. His peers (or most of them anyway) did have to play those games, so it's also fair to weigh that against him in a top player comparison. It is frustrating to listen to Windhorst, Simmons, Ben Golliver, Jackie Mac, etc. get uppity all year about it though. There's a very good reason for Kawhi missing those games, and it isn't because he's lazy, half-way out the door, doesn't like basketball, or any of the other stupid reasons that get bandied about. The dude has a degenerative quad, and he has to manage that if he wants to play at a high level into his 30s.

[laika]

Harden officially eliminated from POY contention.
Yes, he had one of the great PPG seasons in NBA history. But his overall impact is not close to that of the best player in the league.

[Jaivl]

Harden officially eliminated from POY contention.
Yes, he had one of the great PPG seasons in NBA history. But his overall impact is not close to that of the best player in the league.

I'd say Harden was the second best player on the court, behind Green.

[Krodis]

Harden was great versus Golden State. He didn't have the luxury of easy competition in the first couple of rounds. I don't think that should be held against him.

[eminence]

Yeah, Harden played 2 series against really tough competition. Guys like Giannis/Jokic while playing great haven't played an opponent on the Jazz's level yet, let alone the Warriors. They still have chances to prove themselves, but they haven't done it yet.

[MelbourneBuck]

I think Boston were still pretty good defensively outside of Kyrie but it got lost a bit amongst all the drama and their offensive ineptitude. They tried a whole bunch of stuff defensively against Giannis and he dealt with it pretty well. That being said we haven't faced competition anywhere close to what Houston or Golden State has.

[Dr Spaceman]

Yeah I think it’s pretty amazing actually that Houston managed a 113 offense against GSW while Paul and Capela were garbage offensively and Gordon was really the only one of the cast who could score (although Tucker chipped in nicely with timely 3s and OREBs).

Harden essentially is being hurt by narrative at this point. All told, he led a very very good postseason offense considering the level of competition, and that same offense was barely at a point per possession when he sat. Box score doesn’t look particularly pretty but we should be above such things.

He played really well. Not perfect but really well.

[Basileus777]

I think Harden performed well enough this postseason for him to largely stand pat with where I had him when it began. But that's well behind Giannis.

[eminence]

Draymond angling for best Warrior crown for the 3rd time in 5 years by my estimation. Worth tracking, not sure how high he can rise.

[Dr Spaceman]

Draymond angling for best Warrior crown for the 3rd time in 5 years by my estimation. Worth tracking, not sure how high he can rise.

Just give him player of the decade at this point. Not sure if Lebron is even better.

Joking but sort of not.

[MelbourneBuck]

Just checked Houston's starting/most used lineup in the series and they were pretty awful. 99 OFFRTG and 18%TOV. The lineup with Rivers replacing Capela wasn't much better. They were really good overall offensively except for TOs but the defense in the latter part of the season and in the Utah series didn't carry over.

[Senior]

I'm really excited to see how Draymond is evaluated when he retires. Collinearity of the Warriors plus their overall dominance makes assessing their individual components really tough but Draymond's unique skillset is probably only borne out even remotely well through impact numbers. I bet he looks like KG in those metrics. He's so insanely good at everything but scoring.

[GSP]

Its amazing to me how much a couple quarters can change the narrative. Basketball twitter is just about the worst next to Reddit

Steph was the worst defensive player this series by a mile and poor offensively for most of the quarters too. Harden in the post and isos can at least defend even tho hes horrible in space and offball. Basically when he has to move his large body

I mean really if we switched pickandroll/lob parters b/w Draymond and Capela this series would be entirely different. This is just yet another of the long list of series where Draymond has been better than Steph and is gonna get underappreciated for

[Peregrine01]

For all the talk about Steph’s explosion and KD’s raw numbers, Draymond has been quite clearly the best Warrior to me in these playoffs. He gets overlooked by all the casuals and tend to be underrated here as well.

[Peregrine01]

Its amazing to me how much a couple quarters can change the narrative. Basketball twitter is just about the worst next to Reddit

Steph was the worst defensive player this series by a mile and poor offensively for most of the quarters too. Harden in the post and isos can at least defend even tho hes horrible in space and offball. Basically when he has to move his large body

I mean really if we switched pickandroll/lob parters b/w Draymond and Capela this series would be entirely different. This is just yet another of the long list of series where Draymond has been better than Steph and is gonna get underappreciated for

Where’s the evidence that “he’s been the worst defensive player by a mile”? On/off stats have shown so far that the Dubs DRTG gets worse when he’s off the floor.

[laika]

Its amazing to me how much a couple quarters can change the narrative. Basketball twitter is just about the worst next to Reddit

Steph was the worst defensive player this series by a mile and poor offensively for most of the quarters too. Harden in the post and isos can at least defend even tho hes horrible in space and offball. Basically when he has to move his large body

I mean really if we switched pickandroll/lob parters b/w Draymond and Capela this series would be entirely different. This is just yet another of the long list of series where Draymond has been better than Steph and is gonna get underappreciated for

Where’s the evidence that “he’s been the worst defensive player by a mile”? On/off stats have shown so far that the Dubs DRTG gets worse when he’s off the floor.

There is none. GSP's claim is wildly false.

[ronnymac2]

Agreed with everybody saying Draymond has been the anchor of the Warriors so far.

I've literally been saying for years that we've never had a player like Draymond Green. Handles like a PG, defends on a DPOY level, gets 7-8 assists every night, and can shoot 3's. When you talk about players who galvanize the multiple-man unit on the court...I don't just mean in terms of attitude/spirit, I mean a guy who play after play commits actions that connect plays made by his teammates to other teammates. Like, this guy maximizes the positive effect teammates have on other teammates. Think about that.

Horace Grant is one of my favorite players ever, and I used to call him a "connector" because he's the guy who would play screen-n-roll with Penny, catch the ball on the pop and either shoot his shot at an elite level or recognize that Shaq's man stepped out to guard his jumper so he could adeptly dump it to Shaq for a dunk. Or he could skip it to D-Scott in the corner for a 3, and if it misses, Horace grabs the offensive rebound. Then go back on the other end and him and Scottie and Mike could completely shut down passing lanes, or maybe Horace locks down the paint allowing MJ/Scottie to take chances. Draymond is that "connector" type on steroids. Basically KG with less scoring, more range, different style defense.

The symbiotic relationship with Curry, and even Klay, but especially Curry, is like...perfect. I said a few years ago that Curry/Draymond is the best 2-man combination in NBA history, and I believe a mod who I think is an excellent mod, I think it was Trex, verbally warned me for trolling. Now granted, I do say incredibly dumb things from time to time, but I was 100% serious when I said Dray/Steph is the best 2-person unit in basketball history, and I'm pretty sure there is on-off data, shared-court RAPM, 73 wins, AND the eye test that back that claim up. These guys boost each other and more importantly, boost those around them. Credit to those who take advantage such as Klay, who gets crapped on, yet once again showed his true colors when GSW needed him the most by leading the offense and dropping bombs in the first half last night.

How many times has Klay done this? Remember when he hit an NBA record 11 3-pointers in 2016 on the road down 3-2 against a really, really good team. Curry might go off when the team is ahead by 5 and because he goes supernova and GSW blow it open he gets A LOT of glory, and much of it is deserved, but I swear it seems like when the going gets tough and they are down, Klay is the guy who wakes up and keeps them afloat. Yet Klay gets called overrated, needs the others, is one-dimensional, etc. So wild.

[Krodis]

Klay also has the luxury of disappearing for games on end without real criticism. He's a very good but inconsistent player who can get really really hot.

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[Dr Spaceman]

For all the talk about Steph’s explosion and KD’s raw numbers, Draymond has been quite clearly the best Warrior to me in these playoffs. He gets overlooked by all the casuals and tend to be underrated here as well.

Don’t think he gets overlooked on here. There is a small but vocal minority on here that believes he is good enough to win an MVP and I am on record as saying he is probably the most valuable Warrior over their 5 year run.

He gets his due.