Around the NBA (4.0) *Non-Celtics Talk*

[Captain_Caveman]

No offense to women

With all due respect to women

...

[truth18]

It is a horrible idea. Yeah, lets force teams to hire women coaches. Best qualified is best qualified. Period.

No offense to women, this would be an absolutely horrid idea and ruin the NBA even further

Yep. Social justice warriors unite! It is getting very very tiring. He was alluding to 50 percent female coaches. Unreal.

Who the **** cares? Becky could be a better head coach than 90% of the current dudes.

[truth18]

Yep. Social justice warriors unite! It is getting very very tiring. He was alluding to 50 percent female coaches. Unreal.

Social justice warrior? It's not a job that needs to be gender-specific, yet is treated as one. That being threatening to you somehow says more about you than anything else.

With all due respect to women I absolutely dont think there are not enough qualified women to help the game.

You respect women about as much as your grammar.

[FlatearthZorro]

No offense to women

With all due respect to women

...

Which obviously means that I do respect women, they need to let them officiate high level college games on regular basis to see if they are up to it. Throwing them to the fire right away has got disaster written all over it and could result in some serious backlash.

[Jakeopp]

No offense to women

With all due respect to women

...

Which obviously means that I do respect women, they need to let them officiate high level college games on regular basis to see if they are up to it. Throwing them to the fire right away has got disaster written all over it and could result in some serious backlash.

I believe the G-league is used for this.

[ViperGTS]

No offense to women, this would be an absolutely horrid idea and ruin the NBA even further

Yep. Social justice warriors unite! It is getting very very tiring. He was alluding to 50 percent female coaches. Unreal.

Social justice warrior? It's not a job that needs to be gender-specific, yet is treated as one. That being threatening to you somehow says more about you than anything else.

Threatening? Doesn’t impact me other than the precedent it sets. Any institution mandating anything is ridiculous. If it said the need for 50 percent men I would say the same, social justice warriors at their finest. Let the process play out. Use a Rooney rule type and have women interview. Might be surprised how some may impress and get hired.

The fact you endorse mandated social engineering says a lot about you.

[ViperGTS]

No offense to women, this would be an absolutely horrid idea and ruin the NBA even further

Yep. Social justice warriors unite! It is getting very very tiring. He was alluding to 50 percent female coaches. Unreal.

Who the **** cares? Becky could be a better head coach than 90% of the current dudes.

Maybe. Maybe not. Let the process play out instead of throwing the 50 percent number out. Thats why I care. You end up hiring women that are set up to fail and that sets that process backwards. Again, if it was a women dominated occupation and they demanded men st a 50 percent rate, I would say the same thing.

Nobody ever sees the pitfalls.

[FlatearthZorro]

...

Which obviously means that I do respect women, they need to let them officiate high level college games on regular basis to see if they are up to it. Throwing them to the fire right away has got disaster written all over it and could result in some serious backlash.

I believe the G-league is used for this.

College at a high level is a far superior stage cause of all the eyes on it and the money it brings. Nobody cares about the G League as most athletes there get what 3-5k a month, while colleges generate millions every game.

[soxfan2003]

Have we done this one yet?

https://nypost.com/2019/05/09/adam-silver-wants-half-of-the-new-nba-referees-to-be-women/

I am right of center with some unorthodox opinions and I don't mind calling out some feminist misleading statements on pay equity in certain fields but I believe NBA reffing and NBA coaching are actual areas where temporary affirmative action to help woman is completely appropriate for a short period of time like 10 years just so barriers can truly be completely broken down at the lower and upper levels. Barriers are broken down when most people are not surprised by a women coach or ref and that is not the case right now among coaches especially. If the occupation had somewhat equal access, we would not have even hear much about the Spurs coach. Have the affirmative action for a defined period like 10 years. Not forever but a long enough period to kick start a change of perceptions and attitudes. After that, let the most qualified person get the job at all levels and in terms of refs, I wouldn't even mind if some gender neutral artificial intelligence program helped rank the referees to help minimize any bias in selection and hire the most qualified refs and fire the worst ones. If super fast young male sprinters with 20/12 vision became nearly all the refs since they got most of the calls correct with their speed and crazy good eyesight so be it but I would like some temporary affirmative action to help break down barriers. There is obviously a huge huge pay disparity between a life long d league ref and an NBA one so the right of center person in me believes it is unfortunate when some presently possibly more qualified men possibly get hurt by this policy but I think the NBA needs to set the example so there is change at lower levels like college ball and even high school ball.

The lack of women coaching in NBA/college bball is even more embarrassing from my perspective and shows clear barriers to entry.since even though men on average may be much more interested in basketball, there are still a reasonable amount of women interested in basketball including some that have reffed and played high school and college ball.

I have known a handful of women refs and coaches at lower levels and I thought nothing of it but I sure do think it is strange that there have been close to zero at upper levels in mens sports. If women never become as interested as men in men's basketball, I wouldn't expect a 50/50 split long terms but I would expect a split where there are at least a non trivial percentage of women.

Over time I suspect it wouldn't be 50/50 -- more women want to be home at night to at least be around their kids if they have them -- but it wouldn't be 0% which is what we basically have now so Silver is right to promote change but to reduce unfairness to men long term, he just should spell out some of the nuisances I have tried to spell out here.

Anyways in let's say between 2030-2040 if 1000 men and 100 women dedicate their lives to become NBA refs and let's say the 100 best are selected, I suspect a slightly higher percentage of men should perhaps be selected if things are just fairly graded. In my hypothetical example, maybe 92 men and 8 women given the differences in the amount of women/men trying seriously to be refs in but maybe I am wrong and more women will go into reffing so the vast majority of new refs are women.

What forms the basis of my opinion? Men on average are slightly faster/moderately taller but I don't think speed and certainly height should be a a complete showstoppers to folks reffing since obviously you don't have to be insanely fast or tall but having reffed before being in position as quickly as possible is somewhat important. I never reffed super tall players like 7fters but it is fair to say if a referee crew is all 5"6 inch people it is tougher for one of them to do a jump ball play. But a disproportionate percentage of women really interested in basketball I suspect are actually relatively tall. Recently, I saw an NBA playoff game in which some AFAIR male who seemed short messed up a jump ball play by throwing the ball too far left. It was a difficult play for him since the players were so damn tall. But good eyesight/judgement more important than all of that other stuff. And it really only takes ONE ref that is 6ft plus or perhaps a little taller to do a good jump ball play nearly all the time.

I try to think of everything and the whole argument that you need strong men to breakup fights, I don't buy since the NBA or NHL can eliminate 99.99% of the fights if they want. Obviously, the NBA has cut down on them after some fiascos. I don't follow hockey much at all so I don't know if they decided to eliminate fights or not.....or if they still have them to help TV ratings. Players respond to suspensions/loss in pay if it is severe.

Anyways, coaching is where things are really embarrassing given a fair amount of women have been playing/coaching college women's basketball and high school ball. Tons of women if given the opportunity to work there way up from the bottom would be very good at it. But again, in the long run after an affirmative action period of perhaps 10 years I would like the best person for the job selected.

I am willing to rebut feminist spin when people say they are paid 73 cents on the dollar right now. That is a lie in most occupations when you compare apples to apples. But it is not a lie and it is common sense that there are real barriers to entry right now to women in NBA basketball.

[Captain_Caveman]

Yep. Social justice warriors unite! It is getting very very tiring. He was alluding to 50 percent female coaches. Unreal.

Social justice warrior? It's not a job that needs to be gender-specific, yet is treated as one. That being threatening to you somehow says more about you than anything else.

Threatening? Doesn’t impact me other than the precedent it sets. Any institution mandating anything is ridiculous. If it said the need for 50 percent men I would say the same, social justice warriors at their finest. Let the process play out. Use a Rooney rule type and have women interview. Might be surprised how some may impress and get hired.

The fact you endorse mandated social engineering says a lot about you.

Try reading your own link next time. He didn't call for a mandate. You assumed that from the headline, and because you are threatened by the idea of an equal playing field.

[Captain_Caveman]

Yep. Social justice warriors unite! It is getting very very tiring. He was alluding to 50 percent female coaches. Unreal.

Who the **** cares? Becky could be a better head coach than 90% of the current dudes.

Maybe. Maybe not. Let the process play out instead of throwing the 50 percent number out. Thats why I care. You end up hiring women that are set up to fail and that sets that process backwards. Again, if it was a women dominated occupation and they demanded men st a 50 percent rate, I would say the same thing.

Nobody ever sees the pitfalls.

Or more like you are ex-military with almost no education whatsoever. But please elaborate on why women are somehow incapable of reffing a child's game.

[Jakeopp]

Which obviously means that I do respect women, they need to let them officiate high level college games on regular basis to see if they are up to it. Throwing them to the fire right away has got disaster written all over it and could result in some serious backlash.

I believe the G-league is used for this.

College at a high level is a far superior stage cause of all the eyes on it and the money it brings. Nobody cares about the G League as most athletes there get what 3-5k a month, while colleges generate millions every game.

The ability to ref basketball has little to do with money generated or the popularity of the league.

Nobody is getting "thrown into the fire." The hiring process is explained here:

https://nbaofficials.com

It seems that potential candidates all go through the g-league before entering the NBA.

[Green89]

Vogel and Kidd are head coach and assistant coach now for Lakers.

[K For Three]

Vogel and Kidd are head coach and assistant coach now for Lakers.

Wonder if this temps Kyrie, he has worshipped Kidd his whole life.

[jcappy]

Vogel and Kidd are head coach and assistant coach now for Lakers.

Wonder if this temps Kyrie, he has worshipped Kidd his whole life.

I've got to think that this is a big consideration in the hire of Kidd. LA is reported to have been the one certain team that Kyrie has spoken to thus far.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Some solid commenting on Lakers Ground about the Vogel hiring:

So, LeBron is going to give Vogel the Blatt/Luke treatment until Vogel gets fired and Kidd weasels his way into becoming head coach by pulling his usual power play. Got it.

Vogel’s tenure with the Lakers will end like this: 

He staggers into a room with Pelinka, Jeanie, LeBron, Kidd, Linda and Kurt Rambis, and Rich Paul. Stares at each of them. 

“Which one of you stabbed me in the back?” 

Falls over dead with seven knives in his back. 

[GoCeltics123]

Read on Twitter

[ViperGTS]

Who the **** cares? Becky could be a better head coach than 90% of the current dudes.

Maybe. Maybe not. Let the process play out instead of throwing the 50 percent number out. Thats why I care. You end up hiring women that are set up to fail and that sets that process backwards. Again, if it was a women dominated occupation and they demanded men st a 50 percent rate, I would say the same thing.

Nobody ever sees the pitfalls.

Or more like you are ex-military with almost no education whatsoever. But please elaborate on why women are somehow incapable of reffing a child's game.

Nice shot at the military. Did more than you ever could and even I don’t feel I did that much. However what that has to do with anything is beyond me but coming from you it isn’t surprising. I have a college degree but I know I am chatting with a Rhodes Scholar and Mensa member so I can understand how my views are seen as substandard.

So I will break it down into simple terms. I don’t care if all coaches are women. Or men. If a woman is better coach for the Celtics for instance, fire Brad and hire her. If all coaches are men and are best for the job, so be it as well. Whomever is best is the best. I just don’t like forcing things on people. People are generally good at hiring the best and you can always look to integrate without mandating or hinting at mandating.

[Captain_Caveman]

Maybe. Maybe not. Let the process play out instead of throwing the 50 percent number out. Thats why I care. You end up hiring women that are set up to fail and that sets that process backwards. Again, if it was a women dominated occupation and they demanded men st a 50 percent rate, I would say the same thing.

Nobody ever sees the pitfalls.

Or more like you are ex-military with almost no education whatsoever. But please elaborate on why women are somehow incapable of reffing a child's game.

Nice shot at the military. Did more than you ever could and even I don’t feel I did that much. However what that has to do with anything is beyond me but coming from you it isn’t surprising. I have a college degree but I know I am chatting with a Rhodes Scholar and Mensa member so I can understand how my views are seen as substandard.

So I will break it down into simple terms. I don’t care if all coaches are women. Or men. If a woman is better coach for the Celtics for instance, fire Brad and hire her. If all coaches are men and are best for the job, so be it as well. Whomever is best is the best. I just don’t like forcing things on people. People are generally good at hiring the best and you can always look to integrate without mandating or hinting at mandating.

Thanks for your service. Come from a military/LE family myself, and I have hired several disabled combat vets. They are as loyal to me as I am to them. Back to you, you were Air Force, no? For starters, women are second class citizens across all military branches and are routinely subject to open hostility, abuse, and assault. The Air Force is also by far the least egalitarian of all branches, and feel free to google that word. So you might not be the best point of reference here. The fact that you started this topic just to slam women and the "social justice warriors" in your head says as much, and quite frankly, illustrates some deep-rooted hangups on your end of the equation. Especially given that you are still hung up on the issue of Silver mandating this after being corrected about a link you posted but did not read.

You also might have missed the memo that women and minorities don't need your permission slip in 2019 to do much of anything. Law of averages would states that roughly half of all new hires in most fields would be women, and that if you are down to around 5-10%, maybe you have a problem with your hiring practices. There is legitimately no reason whatsoever that a woman could not ref a game as well as a man. There is genuinely no genetic advantage whatsoever.

I would offer that the issue here is not anyone being a social justice warrior so much as you being a misogynistic neanderthal. Also hugely ironic that you bring this up about the NBA, which has long been at the forefront of promoting social progress.

[truth18]

Coach Mang is our best poster and the leader of this sub forum of cowards.

How is it then that we actually have guys on here questioning the general basketball acumen of women compared to men?

It's some borderline mutinous ****, imo, which normally I'm down for but come the **** on with this stuff.