Harden + ? For ?

moofs · Post #1 » by **moofs** » Sat May 11, 2019 4:26 am

Put your trades here.

Let’s get this party started.

killacalijatt · Post #2 » by **killacalijatt** » Sat May 11, 2019 5:20 am

Harden for LBJ

texasholdem · Post #3 » by **texasholdem** » Sat May 11, 2019 5:45 am

Harden + Paul to LA Clippers for Gallinari, Shai G-A, Montrezl, Landry Shamet, Lou Williams, and 3 first round draft picks

moofs · Post #4 » by **moofs** » Sat May 11, 2019 1:42 pm

texasholdem wrote:Harden + Paul to LA Clippers for Gallinari, Shai G-A, Montrezl, Landry Shamet, Lou Williams, and 3 first round draft picks

That would be hilarious.

Post #5 » by **TMU** » Sun May 12, 2019 2:37 am

Harden to the Knicks for Zion Williamson and future assets

YoungMoney23 · Post #6 » by **YoungMoney23** » Sun May 12, 2019 5:09 am

Get rid of this troll post

FlyingArrow · Post #7 » by **FlyingArrow** » Sun May 12, 2019 5:10 am

TMU wrote:Harden to the Knicks for Zion Williamson and future assets

The Knicks probably won't get Zion. Very unlikely.

moofs · Post #8 » by **moofs** » Sun May 12, 2019 9:36 pm

YoungMoney23 wrote:Get rid of this troll post

Absolutely not a troll post.

1. He's 30 at the start of next season.
2. The team, as constructed, has peaked. For the most part, Paul was a dice roll on last year. It was a good one, but just didn't quite make it. I don't think ANY of us can explain 40 million for FOUR years. Seriously, Daryl? You're in my signature, man. Don't embarrass me like that.
3. We're up against the cap from a mere 8 players, 2 of whom aren't going anywhere.
https://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston_rockets/
4. CP3 is 34, 40 million over 3 more seasons with the third guaranteed (player option, technically), and almost certainly untradeable.
5. Capela just choked HARD in the playoffs.
6. Tucker is also 34.
7. We're going to have to get to Harden's age 31 season on him, Tucker, Nene, Paul, Gordon, Capela, a midlevel signing, and whatever new magic rabbits Morey can pull out of his hat.
8. We're basically looking at wasting a year to have a shot at reconstructing.
9. Paul will be 36 that year.
10. Guards typically begin declining around 32-33, which means we'd have one, maybe two shots max with Harden (after throwing out this coming year), all while yoked with Paul.
11. Harden has pretty much proven he can't be THE guy required to make the clutch shots. I say that even after taking injuries, rosters, and other things into consideration. I no longer trust relying on him to be THE option.
12. The refs have shown that they will not give him the same calls in the playoffs that they do in the regular season, even if those calls may be dubious and/or sought out and/or replacements for other shots he's clearly fouled on.
13. Did I mention that we have no draft picks? We have no draft picks.

So then, how do you reconstruct the team within a 2 year max window while being completely hamstrung in year 1, with a 2nd "star" who's untradeable (I was wrong, Bev. I was wrong. Please forgive me!), and no more than 3 useful trade assets?

ALWAYS go full Spurs.

Off the top of my head, I'd say Harden for a lesser Derozanesque (shudder) player with TUP and 1sts. Maybe even figure out a way to bundle in Paul and take back a shorter worse contract. Definitely some picks, though.

If we don't do this NOW, we're definitely going to be sitting on Paul until he's an expiring 36 year old on a 40 million contract during Harden's 33 y/o season.

Does THAT sound appealing?

texasholdem · Post #9 » by **texasholdem** » Mon May 13, 2019 3:48 am

If Boston fails to get Anthony Davis and Kyrie leaves as expected...

Harden + Paul to Boston for Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart and Aron Baynes.

Rockets
F: Tatum, House? Green?
F: Tucker, Faried?
C: Capela, Baynes
G: Gordon, Smart
G: Hayward, Rivers?
undrafted possibilities: Corey Davis, Jr. (UH)
free agent possibilities: Patrick Beverley (UFA)

Celtics
F: Brown
F: Morris? Ojeleye
C: Horford? Williams
G: Paul, Rozier
G: Harden,

Celtics would still have a young player in Jaylen Brown who they can build around or trade.
Tatum had a down second season and playoffs but just turned 21.
Hayward's contract is big but shorter than either Harden's or Paul's.

moofs · Post #10 » by **moofs** » Mon May 13, 2019 1:56 pm

Odds of Harden + fillet for AD + filler?

Post #11 » by **TMU** » Mon May 13, 2019 2:19 pm

I agree with most of moofy's post. I think we have to keep an open mind and consider all possibilities. I love Chris Paul and what he has done for the Rockets thus far. I think he may have one more decent year before we see another step-off decline. Remember Morey gave him that massive contract in exchange for the confidence he had in James and Chris to bring a championship this year. But guess what? They failed despite the Warriors losing their best player in Durant. Tucker was the only player who gave his all. And James Harden saying that he knows exactly what he needs to do next year, simply doesn't cut it. The FO and the management should move past this hero/isolation ball and begin thinking about utilizing the 8/9-man rotation as a whole. This roster has had countless of possessions in this series where Harden dribbles down the clock and makes that last second pass as a bail out. That's just simply not acceptable.

No one should be untouchable on this roster. It will be incredibly difficult to trade contracts such as Harden's or Paul's, but if there's a package that makes sense that enhances the dynamics of the team to win more games and ultimately a championship, you go for it. Loyalty is nonsense if the end goal is to win a championship.

moofs · Post #12 » by **moofs** » Mon May 13, 2019 3:18 pm

TMU wrote:Loyalty is nonsense if the end goal is to win a championship.

I’d argue that trading Harden, to the right situation, could be more loyal an act than keeping him.

I haven’t dont any looks through rosters, but if there’s a Kawhi-Derozan situation available that puts him in a better situation to win now (age 30-33) and us in a better situation long term (immediate lesser assets + draft picks + cap flexibility), everybody wins, or a Davis situation (he wants out, we get younger, Pelicans get a replacement MVP caliber player and lose their locker room issues, Harden didn’t gain, but lost nothing).

To probably quote a lot of chick flicks, “sometimes, when you really love something, you have to let it go.”

moofs · Post #13 » by **moofs** » Mon May 13, 2019 9:14 pm

I hope we don’t see a clash of worldviews.

Morey has a gambler-style. Play the odds. Minimize inefficiencies. Maximize exploits. Fix the process as needed.

Fertitta very much seems to have an immediate results mindset. Anything to win (except the luxury tax). If we don’t strike gold, buy more dynamite.
BLOW UP EVERYTHING!! BLOW IT UP!! I WILL FIND GOLD HERE!! If you fail, I BLOW YOU UP TOO!!!

I could absolutely see that going downhill quickly. Only one team can win every year. Every team has finite resources to do so. It takes both strategy and luck. You HAVE to have a top 5 player. Once you do, you have a SHORT window - 5-7 years TOPS - in which to capitalize. Back to the drawing board of lottery cycles after that. You aren’t in total control of your fate. I don’t think Fertitta grasps the odds-based nature of sports, and instead has the “youre doing it wrong” mindset of the entertainment and restauranteur businesses.

Imo, more than one group can “do it right” in sports, but still not have things fall their way. Hopefully, the two views don’t collide.

texasholdem · Post #14 » by **texasholdem** » Mon May 13, 2019 10:41 pm

moofs wrote:I don’t think Fertitta grasps the odds-based nature of sports, and instead has the “youre doing it wrong” mindset of the entertainment and restauranteur businesses.

He does own five casinos. But as we've learned that doesn't always make one a successful businessman.

His comments last week about winning some championships with harden seem to indicate he won't ever be traded.

moofs · Post #15 » by **moofs** » Mon May 13, 2019 11:06 pm

texasholdem wrote:
moofs wrote:I don’t think Fertitta grasps the odds-based nature of sports, and instead has the “youre doing it wrong” mindset of the entertainment and restauranteur businesses.

He does own five casinos. But as we've learned that doesn't always make one a successful businessman.

His comments last week about winning some championships with harden seem to indicate he won't ever be traded.

Yeah. I’m just wondering if he realizes that he’s sitting AT the table rather than behind it, though. That’s not a given. He doesn’t talk like he cares to be aware of that.

I also wonder if/how much money changes hands in the back alleys of the NBA to try and worm into secretly being behind the table rather than at it. We’d almost certainly never find out if this was the case, of course.

I’m pretty positive that Harden won’t be traded. Doesn’t keep me from building a case that he should be, though. :-)

I feel like it’s a decent case, too, though I’d certainly be interested in seeing the angles that I’m missing from this perspective.

moofs · Post #16 » by **moofs** » Wed May 29, 2019 6:59 pm

Called it!

https://www.thedreamshake.com/2019/5/29/18644281/woj-all-houston-rockets-are-available

Daryl, if I helped provide the motivation to make the call, you’re welcome.

moofs · Post #17 » by **moofs** » Wed May 29, 2019 7:00 pm

Are you guys gonna make me come up with the options? You know I don’t have time for that anymore!

Post #18 » by **TMU** » Wed May 29, 2019 7:43 pm

moofs wrote:Called it!

https://www.thedreamshake.com/2019/5/29/18644281/woj-all-houston-rockets-are-available

Daryl, if I helped provide the motivation to make the call, you’re welcome.

Daryl should be furious after that loss. I'm glad he has the balls to do what's right for the organization. In Morey, We Trust.

texasholdem · Post #19 » by **texasholdem** » Thu May 30, 2019 1:06 am

moofs wrote:Called it!

https://www.thedreamshake.com/2019/5/29/18644281/woj-all-houston-rockets-are-available

Daryl, if I helped provide the motivation to make the call, you’re welcome.

Pffft... I've been in this forum calling for harden to be traded for years and I never wanted cp3.

Don't think Tillman will let it happen though.

moofs · Post #20 » by **moofs** » Thu May 30, 2019 12:10 pm

texasholdem wrote:
moofs wrote:Called it!

https://www.thedreamshake.com/2019/5/29/18644281/woj-all-houston-rockets-are-available

Daryl, if I helped provide the motivation to make the call, you’re welcome.

Pffft... I've been in this forum calling for harden to be traded for years and I never wanted cp3.

Don't think Tillman will let it happen though.

There was a time where he could be made to work. That time has passed for us. He could still be a key figure for someone else, but he needs to be in a primary star, second banana situation. He probably won’t win in that situation, but he’ll make them much better.

If he stays here, we probably won’t win, but we’ll still do good.

Meanwhile, we’d need back probably picks + bigger than DeRozan + ?.