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Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues

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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#61 » by Dave_From_NB » Sun May 12, 2019 12:39 pm

My first post since the loss. Man, I'm beyond disappointed, I'd say I'm disgusted with the way the season turned out.

I don't care that the guys don't do group hugs in the locker room. I think you need a group of guys who want to win at all costs. Celtics had IMO too many guys trying to get labeled as stars, 1 guy trying to prove he was the man, 1 guy **** about getting hurt again. Celtics need more players with the heart of Smart, Baynes, and Horford, but with the skills of Brown, Tatum, Rozier, Kyrie and Gordon.

I think Wyc, Ainge, Stevens were embarrassed with this mess, and will have learned a lot. I have confidence in these guys. Ainge is absolutely heartless when it comes to moving players.

I think the team gets a heart transplant this year, and guys that won't buy into the win at all costs mantra don't return.

And in an effort to get on topic with this thread, I do think the team needs an assistant coach that will rip players apart about being selfish, the bad cop to Stevens good.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#62 » by GregB » Sun May 12, 2019 1:01 pm

I think Danny is to blame for giving Brad so many players who weren’t willing to sacrifice for the team. We had too many People that wanted to be generals and not enough soldiers.

The whole rose rule wait for Anthony Davis really threw a wrench in things. But Danny has no excuse this year. We need a better constructed roster with players who understand their roles throughout the lineup.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#63 » by London2Boston » Sun May 12, 2019 1:03 pm

Not surprised. Brad and his coaches looked clueless the whole year. Embarrassing stuff from all involved.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#64 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sun May 12, 2019 1:05 pm

Edug27 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
SuperDeluxe wrote:It did seem to work for the first five years. Something happened this season that changed things.


If I had to guess, players look at Hayward the same way that Clippers players looked at Austin Rivers. As soon as Austin was removed, players went back to respecting Doc and he had an amazing year as a coach.

If I had to guess again, removing Hayward would fix most of the disrespect in the locker room. Adding a long time veteran would help even more.


Not sure I understand this though. Hayward has a resume. He was an all star. He was a number one scoring option on a playoff team. Rivers is a privileged coaches son.

If Klay Thompson broke his ankle, he’d be back in the starting line up next season. If McCollum snapped his ankle, he’d be back in the starting lineup to start the season.


On opening day this season, everyone was in the starting lineup except Rozier. At that point it’s about playing well and earning your minutes. Only one I can see get upset is Rozier... and his biggest issue should have been not getting traded in the offseason so he can start somewhere.


Not if there was someone better on the team.

Hell, we already saw Kerr in this exact situation with David Lee, their multiple time all-star and max-level free agent— he got hurt, a younger player stepped up that was better and Lee returned to the bench. This happens frequently in sports— you play your best players.

Hayward should not have been starting to begin the year. He got to play by a different subset of rules and the other guys on the team were rightfully irked by this.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#65 » by sam_I_am » Sun May 12, 2019 1:08 pm

I would like to see Paul Pierce take over for Ainge some day assuming he turned out to be great at it. Starting as assistant to Brad would be good experience as it was for Bird and Ainge.
"I think the criticism's stupid," Stevens said. "So I don't care. I'm with Jaylen (Brown) on that. Those two had achieved more than most 25 and 26 year olds ever had. I'd rather be in the mix and have my guts ripped out than suck."
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#66 » by zoyathedestroya » Sun May 12, 2019 1:28 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Edug27 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
If I had to guess, players look at Hayward the same way that Clippers players looked at Austin Rivers. As soon as Austin was removed, players went back to respecting Doc and he had an amazing year as a coach.

If I had to guess again, removing Hayward would fix most of the disrespect in the locker room. Adding a long time veteran would help even more.


Not sure I understand this though. Hayward has a resume. He was an all star. He was a number one scoring option on a playoff team. Rivers is a privileged coaches son.

If Klay Thompson broke his ankle, he’d be back in the starting line up next season. If McCollum snapped his ankle, he’d be back in the starting lineup to start the season.


On opening day this season, everyone was in the starting lineup except Rozier. At that point it’s about playing well and earning your minutes. Only one I can see get upset is Rozier... and his biggest issue should have been not getting traded in the offseason so he can start somewhere.


Not if there was someone better on the team.

Hell, we already saw Kerr in this exact situation with David Lee, their multiple time all-star and max-level free agent— he got hurt, a younger player stepped up that was better and Lee returned to the bench. This happens frequently in sports— you play your best players.

Hayward should not have been starting to begin the year. He got to play by a different subset of rules and the other guys on the team were rightfully irked by this.

Tatum and Brown were starters to begin the season. Who would you have started in Gordon's place at the beginning of the year? Rozier? I don't think Mook, Baynes, and Smart are the type to be irked if another vet was starting instead of them. Morris was thriving from the start even in his bench role.

The team started 7-2 then 9-6. As a coach, at what point do you say, "this **** ain't working. We need a lineup change?" Hayward was relegated to the second unit on the 17th game.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#67 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sun May 12, 2019 1:49 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Edug27 wrote:
Not sure I understand this though. Hayward has a resume. He was an all star. He was a number one scoring option on a playoff team. Rivers is a privileged coaches son.

If Klay Thompson broke his ankle, he’d be back in the starting line up next season. If McCollum snapped his ankle, he’d be back in the starting lineup to start the season.


On opening day this season, everyone was in the starting lineup except Rozier. At that point it’s about playing well and earning your minutes. Only one I can see get upset is Rozier... and his biggest issue should have been not getting traded in the offseason so he can start somewhere.


Not if there was someone better on the team.

Hell, we already saw Kerr in this exact situation with David Lee, their multiple time all-star and max-level free agent— he got hurt, a younger player stepped up that was better and Lee returned to the bench. This happens frequently in sports— you play your best players.

Hayward should not have been starting to begin the year. He got to play by a different subset of rules and the other guys on the team were rightfully irked by this.

Tatum and Brown were starters to begin the season. Who would you have started in Gordon's place at the beginning of the year? Rozier? I don't think Mook, Baynes, and Smart aren't the type to be irked if another vet was starting instead of them. Morris was thriving from the start even in his bench role.

The team started 7-2 then 9-6. As a coach, at what point do you say, "this **** ain't working. We need a lineup change?" Hayward was relegated to the second unit on the 17th game.


Baynes. There was no reason to shift off from our lineup from last year.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#68 » by cloverleaf » Sun May 12, 2019 2:13 pm

31to6 wrote:It’s the part about Danny/management that is something of a disappointing surprise to me — my hope/assumption has been that Danny actually has really good cred and rapport with the players..


My guess would be that this year has snapped it.

But these players are basically airheads: respecting particularly Walta for his movie appearance?

Also, I disagree with this idea totally:

"Some players blamed him for integrating Hayward into the starting lineup without giving more regard to the feelings of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum."

Talk about the rookie-contract inmates -- and their "feelings" -- running the asylum!
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#69 » by SuperDeluxe » Sun May 12, 2019 2:15 pm

cloverleaf wrote:But these players are basically airheads: respecting particularly Walta for his movie appearance?

That could just be the reporter adding colour to the piece. It sounds too idiotic too be true.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#70 » by jfs1000d » Sun May 12, 2019 3:05 pm

Jakeopp wrote:Coaching staff definitely needs some changes, gotta fill Shrewsberry's position with someone the players will respect. Enough of this "police yourself" attitude, that clearly doesn't work.


So Brad allowed adults to work out their differences, but instead, needed to baby sit.

Screw our team. Blown it up and don’t get any snowflakes here. I love how Kyrie criticizes Brad and his play calling.




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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#71 » by Dannyboy36 » Sun May 12, 2019 3:31 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Edug27 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
If I had to guess, players look at Hayward the same way that Clippers players looked at Austin Rivers. As soon as Austin was removed, players went back to respecting Doc and he had an amazing year as a coach.

If I had to guess again, removing Hayward would fix most of the disrespect in the locker room. Adding a long time veteran would help even more.


Not sure I understand this though. Hayward has a resume. He was an all star. He was a number one scoring option on a playoff team. Rivers is a privileged coaches son.

If Klay Thompson broke his ankle, he’d be back in the starting line up next season. If McCollum snapped his ankle, he’d be back in the starting lineup to start the season.


On opening day this season, everyone was in the starting lineup except Rozier. At that point it’s about playing well and earning your minutes. Only one I can see get upset is Rozier... and his biggest issue should have been not getting traded in the offseason so he can start somewhere.


Not if there was someone better on the team.

Hell, we already saw Kerr in this exact situation with David Lee, their multiple time all-star and max-level free agent— he got hurt, a younger player stepped up that was better and Lee returned to the bench. This happens frequently in sports— you play your best players.

Hayward should not have been starting to begin the year. He got to play by a different subset of rules and the other guys on the team were rightfully irked by this.


Agree. Betrayal by Stevens. He played guys like Jameer Nelson, TYshaun Prince that had no future with the Celtics because they earned minutes. Then Hayward comes and he threw that out the window. Jaylen got the early hook but Tatum, Rozier etc did not. Jaylen has a more agreeable personality, more mature so he’s the one who suffers. Victim of Brad’s weakness.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#72 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sun May 12, 2019 3:32 pm

Also, Posey is a free agent coach right now— would be shocking if we dont bring him in. Great voice to have in the locker room if you want someone to preach sacrifice for the greater good.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#73 » by ThirtyFour » Sun May 12, 2019 3:40 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Also, Posey is a free agent coach right now— would be shocking if we dont bring him in. Great voice to have in the locker room if you want someone to preach sacrifice for the greater good.


Hmmmm, I dunno, has this guy ever been in any movies I’d know?
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#74 » by DarkAzcura » Sun May 12, 2019 3:44 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Not if there was someone better on the team.

Hell, we already saw Kerr in this exact situation with David Lee, their multiple time all-star and max-level free agent— he got hurt, a younger player stepped up that was better and Lee returned to the bench. This happens frequently in sports— you play your best players.

Hayward should not have been starting to begin the year. He got to play by a different subset of rules and the other guys on the team were rightfully irked by this.

Tatum and Brown were starters to begin the season. Who would you have started in Gordon's place at the beginning of the year? Rozier? I don't think Mook, Baynes, and Smart aren't the type to be irked if another vet was starting instead of them. Morris was thriving from the start even in his bench role.

The team started 7-2 then 9-6. As a coach, at what point do you say, "this **** ain't working. We need a lineup change?" Hayward was relegated to the second unit on the 17th game.


Baynes. There was no reason to shift off from our lineup from last year.


Everyone keeps talking about Brown and Tatum potentially being be ones held back by Hayward receiving minutes. I 100% doubt Tatum or Brown care whatsoever that Hayward started over Baynes. I doubt anyone cared, and I’m sure it was cool with Baynes. The only one who had any right to be annoyed with Hayward’s return was Morris, and honestly, who cares about Morris.

Brown got yanked early on because he played selfishly. If Hayward went out there and played wrecklessly and selfishly, he would had been yanked too. This thing about Brown having a shorter leash vs Hayward is weird to me. If anything, if I were Brown, I would be annoyed that I had a shorter leash than Tatum, who also plays selfishly quite a lot and is rarely pulled for it despite being younger.

If the young guys were really thrown off by Hayward, they need to grow up. Hayward was a great teammate all year long. Barely anyone in his position would had accepted the bench role as well as he did.

As much as I appreciate Morris’ heart in the most recent series, if Hayward and Stevens were being treated unfairly because the kids couldn’t get out of their own head, Ainge should had traded Morris. That would had solved almost all of this crying about roles and minutes on its own without improperly scapegoating Hayward.

The more I think about it, the root cause of this season does unfortunately fall back on Ainge, and I’m a huge Ainge fan. He has always dismissed chemistry as an important factor of a team’s success (see Perk trade), but the league is changing. Chemistry matters now even if it didn’t in the 80s and 90s. He needs to keep up. The only thing I’ll say is I know he probably kept Rozier as Irving insurance, and I know he probably kept Morris as wing insurance in case they trade Tatum and Brown for AD in the summer. Tough position, but putting all of our eggs in the AD basket is ultimately very risky.

Not trading Morris and Rozier this season to ease the tension in the locker room in terms of roles could prove to be the fatal mistake unfortunately.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#75 » by 31to6 » Sun May 12, 2019 3:46 pm

So CrazyEyes Larranaga doesn’t put the fear of god in them anymore?

Brad’s ‘hit singles’ mantra never worked?

It was said that he’d yell and get mad behind closed doors.

But I wonder if Danny still feels there’s a possible path to KI and AD here and if it would have to not include Brad. I mean, he’d do that, right?
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#76 » by 31to6 » Sun May 12, 2019 3:47 pm

SuperDeluxe wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:But these players are basically airheads: respecting particularly Walta for his movie appearance?

That could just be the reporter adding colour to the piece. It sounds too idiotic too be true.


“Moment for Love” was one of Kyrie’s favorite albums :)
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#77 » by cloverleaf » Sun May 12, 2019 3:59 pm

DarkAzcura wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:Tatum and Brown were starters to begin the season. Who would you have started in Gordon's place at the beginning of the year? Rozier? I don't think Mook, Baynes, and Smart aren't the type to be irked if another vet was starting instead of them. Morris was thriving from the start even in his bench role.

The team started 7-2 then 9-6. As a coach, at what point do you say, "this **** ain't working. We need a lineup change?" Hayward was relegated to the second unit on the 17th game.


Baynes. There was no reason to shift off from our lineup from last year.


Everyone keeps talking about Brown and Tatum potentially being be ones held back by Hayward receiving minutes. I 100% doubt Tatum or Brown care whatsoever that Hayward started over Baynes. I doubt anyone cared, and I’m sure it was cool with Baynes. The only one who had any right to be annoyed with Hayward’s return was Morris, and honestly, who cares about Morris.

Brown got yanked early on because he played selfishly. If Hayward went out there and played wrecklessly and selfishly, he would had been yanked too. This thing about Brown having a shorter leash vs Hayward is weird to me. If anything, if I were Brown, I would be annoyed that I had a shorter leash than Tatum, who also plays selfishly quite a lot and is rarely pulled for it despite being younger.

If the young guys were really thrown off by Hayward, they need to grow up. Hayward was a great teammate all year long. Barely anyone in his position would had accepted the bench role as well as he did.

As much as I appreciate Morris’ heart in the most recent series, if Hayward and Stevens were being treated unfairly because the kids couldn’t get out of their own head, Ainge should had traded Morris. That would had solved almost all of this crying about roles and minutes on its own without improperly scapegoating Hayward.

The more I think about it, the root cause of this season does unfortunately fall back on Ainge, and I’m a huge Ainge fan. He has always dismissed chemistry as an important factor of a team’s success (see Perk trade), but the league is changing. Chemistry matters now even if it didn’t in the 80s and 90s. He needs to keep up. The only thing I’ll say is I know he probably kept Rozier as Irving insurance, and I know he probably kept Morris as wing insurance in case they trade Tatum and Brown for AD in the summer. Tough position, but putting all of our eggs in the AD basket is ultimately very risky.


Unforunately I bet they cared because they were afraid Hayward would take from their "touches" compared to Baynes.

And even Hayward didn't start the year worse than Brown. In the postseason, of course, there was no comparison, however!

The young guys wanted their roles based on what they'd done last year, largely filling in, without regard for Hayward having been an AS the last time he'd been healthy to play.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#78 » by Edug27 » Sun May 12, 2019 4:00 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Edug27 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
If I had to guess, players look at Hayward the same way that Clippers players looked at Austin Rivers. As soon as Austin was removed, players went back to respecting Doc and he had an amazing year as a coach.

If I had to guess again, removing Hayward would fix most of the disrespect in the locker room. Adding a long time veteran would help even more.


Not sure I understand this though. Hayward has a resume. He was an all star. He was a number one scoring option on a playoff team. Rivers is a privileged coaches son.

If Klay Thompson broke his ankle, he’d be back in the starting line up next season. If McCollum snapped his ankle, he’d be back in the starting lineup to start the season.


On opening day this season, everyone was in the starting lineup except Rozier. At that point it’s about playing well and earning your minutes. Only one I can see get upset is Rozier... and his biggest issue should have been not getting traded in the offseason so he can start somewhere.


Not if there was someone better on the team.

Hell, we already saw Kerr in this exact situation with David Lee, their multiple time all-star and max-level free agent— he got hurt, a younger player stepped up that was better and Lee returned to the bench. This happens frequently in sports— you play your best players.

Hayward should not have been starting to begin the year. He got to play by a different subset of rules and the other guys on the team were rightfully irked by this.


No one realized how awful Hayward was going to look until a few games into the season. Word before the season was that he looked great in practices.

Baynes can’t be used against all teams. Rozier isn’t a great fit alongside Kyrie. The opening day lineup was exactly the correct lineup that should have been out there. In Hindsight Brad probably should have kept Jaylen in there after Gordon went to the bench, but this was at a time when Jaylen got hurt and Boston went on a run with Smart and everything for dicey after that.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#79 » by DarkAzcura » Sun May 12, 2019 4:01 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
DarkAzcura wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Baynes. There was no reason to shift off from our lineup from last year.


Everyone keeps talking about Brown and Tatum potentially being be ones held back by Hayward receiving minutes. I 100% doubt Tatum or Brown care whatsoever that Hayward started over Baynes. I doubt anyone cared, and I’m sure it was cool with Baynes. The only one who had any right to be annoyed with Hayward’s return was Morris, and honestly, who cares about Morris.

Brown got yanked early on because he played selfishly. If Hayward went out there and played wrecklessly and selfishly, he would had been yanked too. This thing about Brown having a shorter leash vs Hayward is weird to me. If anything, if I were Brown, I would be annoyed that I had a shorter leash than Tatum, who also plays selfishly quite a lot and is rarely pulled for it despite being younger.

If the young guys were really thrown off by Hayward, they need to grow up. Hayward was a great teammate all year long. Barely anyone in his position would had accepted the bench role as well as he did.

As much as I appreciate Morris’ heart in the most recent series, if Hayward and Stevens were being treated unfairly because the kids couldn’t get out of their own head, Ainge should had traded Morris. That would had solved almost all of this crying about roles and minutes on its own without improperly scapegoating Hayward.

The more I think about it, the root cause of this season does unfortunately fall back on Ainge, and I’m a huge Ainge fan. He has always dismissed chemistry as an important factor of a team’s success (see Perk trade), but the league is changing. Chemistry matters now even if it didn’t in the 80s and 90s. He needs to keep up. The only thing I’ll say is I know he probably kept Rozier as Irving insurance, and I know he probably kept Morris as wing insurance in case they trade Tatum and Brown for AD in the summer. Tough position, but putting all of our eggs in the AD basket is ultimately very risky.


Unforunately I bet they cared because they were afraid Hayward would take from their "touches" compared to Baynes.


Oh sure, that’s why I think they need to grow up if this was true. And yeah I edited into my post, but if this was true, the fatal mistake will be not trading Morris and Rozier. Trading Morris and Rozier would had eased the tension because Brown and Tatum would had gotten their minutes and shots by necessity. They would have no reason to unfairly scapegoat Hayward at that point. This eased tension then would had allowed Kyrie to not slowly implode mentally who probably couldn’t take the stress of a tense locker room.

I think Ainge lost the pulse of this locker room unfortunately, and I can’t think of a reason why he kept Rozier and Morris except risk mitigation in case Kyrie walks (Rozier) or we trade for AD and need the wing depth.
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Re: Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues 

Post#80 » by cloverleaf » Sun May 12, 2019 4:02 pm

Edug27 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Edug27 wrote:
Not sure I understand this though. Hayward has a resume. He was an all star. He was a number one scoring option on a playoff team. Rivers is a privileged coaches son.

If Klay Thompson broke his ankle, he’d be back in the starting line up next season. If McCollum snapped his ankle, he’d be back in the starting lineup to start the season.


On opening day this season, everyone was in the starting lineup except Rozier. At that point it’s about playing well and earning your minutes. Only one I can see get upset is Rozier... and his biggest issue should have been not getting traded in the offseason so he can start somewhere.


Not if there was someone better on the team.

Hell, we already saw Kerr in this exact situation with David Lee, their multiple time all-star and max-level free agent— he got hurt, a younger player stepped up that was better and Lee returned to the bench. This happens frequently in sports— you play your best players.

Hayward should not have been starting to begin the year. He got to play by a different subset of rules and the other guys on the team were rightfully irked by this.


No one realized how awful Hayward was going to look until a few games into the season. Word before the season was that he looked great in practices.

Baynes can’t be used against all teams. Rozier isn’t a great fit alongside Kyrie. The opening day lineup was exactly the correct lineup that should have been out there. In Hindsight Brad probably should have kept Jaylen in there after Gordon went to the bench, but this was at a time when Jaylen got hurt and Boston went on a run with Smart and everything for dicey after that.


I thought that Smart for JB switch was the best move Stevens did all year. Yes, JB eventually grew up and played his way into decently taking the spot after Smart was hurt, but there is no way he deserved to stay in there after his start to the year.

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