Thunder Offseason Thread

[Pillendreher]

Portland starters vs OKC: 114.7 ORtG | 110.9 DRtG | +3.8 NetRtG in 102 minutes
Portland starters vs DEN: 101.7 ORtG | 117.2 DRtG | -15.5 NetRtG in 117 minutes

This is embarassing, period. And it's not just variance. It's our own ineptitude and complete inability to actually adjust to our opponent. We didn't make any real adjustements to our defense. We just kept doing the same stuff we had been doing in the regular season even though we were below league average over the last 4.5 months doing it that way. Just like against the Jazz, we kept throwing this defense at the opposing PG that was not doing aynthing to actively make them work offensively. Instead of actually trapping their guards, we just tried to blitz them. Instead of sagging off Rubio last season, we defended him like we defended Lillard this series. Our guards were constantly out of place on those actions and Portland had no trouble countering whatever we tried to do offensively.

Inexcuseable.

it's strange how these problems follow the team around across coaching staffs and support players, huh? almost like there's a player on our team who might not be keen on adhering to game plans and whatnot.

No, no, no. You don't get to pull this ****. Whether there is a gameplan and whether said gameplan gets executed is on the coaching staff and on the coaching staff alone. It's the coaching staff's responsibility to set a strategy and to make sure that it translates oncourt. You don't get to put the blame for these massive shortcomings on one single player. It's not his **** job. And furthermore, they are obviously following a certain strategy defensively. They just don't change it according to the opponent. That's on the guys sitting on the bench. It's not Westbrook's job to tell the team to go under screens on Ricky **** Rubio. It's not Paul George's job to tell his teammates to not stay home on Portland's forwards. It's not Steven Adams' job to tell Russ to pressure Lillard more.

What the **** are we playing these clowns for if every strategic mistake gets laid at the doorstep of the players? We should just cut their positions alltogether and save us a couple of millions every season.

i recall our 2016 playoff run, with billy donovan as head coach but with a different player leading the team. we made many defensive adjustments in those playoffs.

This is the equivalent of the Schröder argument. "He had 30 against the Warriors, he's shown us what he can do". You know your counter has no leg to stand on when you have to cherrypick a combined 13 games out of the 344 games played under Donovan to make your point.

Donovan gets more credit for beating the 16/17 Spurs and losing a 3-1 lead than some guys get for championships. Ridiculous.

And the so called leader you're referencing here is forcing the franchise, which has been praised for its teamplay, to play the way he wants to, going away from what made them great in the first place. Gtof with that nonsense.

[bondom34]

I'm not a leader.

https://www.gq.com/story/kevin-durant-is-just-heating-up-profile

[slick_watts]

No, no, no. You don't get to pull this ****. Whether there is a gameplan and whether said gameplan gets executed is on the coaching staff and on the coaching staff alone. It's the coaching staff's responsibility to set a strategy and to make sure that it translates oncourt. You don't get to put the blame for these massive shortcomings on one single player. It's not his **** job. And furthermore, they are obviously following a certain strategy defensively. They just don't change it according to the opponent. That's on the guys sitting on the bench. It's not Westbrook's job to tell the team to go under screens on Ricky **** Rubio. It's not Paul George's job to tell his teammates to not stay home on Portland's forwards. It's not Steven Adams' job to tell Russ to pressure Lillard more.

this same coaching staff has made defensive adjustments based on their opponent before. it is unreasonable to believe that suddenly the coaching staff decided not to. what changed? you know what changed.

What the **** are we playing these clowns for if every strategic mistake gets laid at the doorstep of the players? We should just cut their positions alltogether and save us a couple of millions every season.

every strategic mistake? what? lol. calm down.

This is the equivalent of the Schröder argument.

not really. the thunder made a lot of defensive adjustments in the 2016 playoffs under this coaching staff. genius ones, at times. they haven't really done much of that since. 3 series in 2016, 3 series since. it's the same sample size. what changed? the coaching staff didn't.

gets more credit for beating the 16/17 Spurs and losing a 3-1 lead than some guys get for championships. Ridiculous.

that achievement is more impressive than some title runs i can think of.

And the so called leader you're referencing here is forcing the franchise, which has been praised for its teamplay, to play the way he wants to, going away from what made them great in the first place. Gtof with that nonsense.

there are quotations from him and george alluding to this fact. plenty of them. they both enjoy playing for the thunder even though they aren't winning. do you know why? you know why.

you know why they chose donovan.

this goes back to you believing that donovan is somehow a basketball dummy because we don't do much complex on the court or because westbrook takes poor quality shots. donovan has demonstrated significant basketball acumen at times. you don't just demonstrate it and lose it. you can't erase what you don't like from existence when trying to justify the absence of skill or ability. the demonstration of the skill or ability in the past means there are other factors at work since. i mean- duh.

[slick_watts]

I'm not a leader.

https://www.gq.com/story/kevin-durant-is-just-heating-up-profile

imagine if russ was this humble

[bondom34]

Imagine if trolling wasn't your only goal in life. There was a time when there was quality analysis. That's been long gone.

[slick_watts]

Imagine if trolling wasn't your only goal in life. There was a time when there was quality analysis. That's been long gone.

my only goal in life? this is even worse than pille's hyperbole. a bad habit, for both of you, that disagreement immediately evokes the strawest of strawmans, ultimatums, and all the rest.

the thunder not making effective adjustments in the playoffs defensively the last couple years was a problem. is it a billy donovan problem? that's difficult to show since donovan and his staff has shown this ability numerous times under harsher circumstances. it is not unreasonable to suggest there are other factors at play which are influencing the coaching staff's ability to implement strategy.

i mean, c'mon. either there's something influencing that or it just is happening for no reason at all. people don't just get dumb and ineffective for no reason. what else changed since 2016? follow the clues.

[bondom34]

Nah, pass. If you didn't change stance and use long winded arguments to only try to get the best reactions possible, then flee when people got tired of your act (see: discord), I'd buy it. But you know something? I don't. And frankly, avoiding even having to deal with you has made DT better and seeing you do the same here is just sad.

[slick_watts]

Nah, pass. If you didn't change stance and use long winded arguments to only try to get the best reactions possible, then flee when people got tired of your act (see: discord), I'd buy it. But you know something? I don't. And frankly, avoiding even having to deal with you has made DT better and seeing you do the same here is just sad.

look dude. changing stances is normal. that's what mature people do when there's new evidence or data to consider which might support a different position. or even as someone's own personal values change. i know you think you embarrassed me by posting quotes of me being critical of billy donovan, but i own those criticisms just fine. most of them are still valid! but circumstances have changed dramatically, there's a lot more data now and evidence to consider. which necessarily informs a mature person's opinions and thoughts.

and i don't care much about you avoiding dealing with me. or whatever your theory is as to why i'm not in a discord chat. lol. why does this worry you so much? fleeing an internet chat? get a grip, dom.

[bondom34]

Nothing worries me. Though I wouldn't tell people to get a grip when your new goal in life seems to be trying to rile people up on internet forums. It stopped working for people who know you and you found a new base. Just enjoy it for yourself. You do you. But don't expect everyone to just bow down when you keep doing the same.

[slick_watts]

Nothing worries me. Though I wouldn't tell people to get a grip when your new goal in life seems to be trying to rile people up on internet forums. It stopped working for people who know you and you found a new base. Just enjoy it for yourself. You do you. But don't expect everyone to just bow down when you keep doing the same.

bruh. lol. i've been around and highly visible on the thunder online community since 2008. new base? and really, you think i would avoid a place because people disagree with me there? there's some cognitive dissonance going on in your brains.

bow down? what the hell. why does everything have to be so personal? you disagree with what i said about billy? fine! that's fine! stop being such a whiner about it.

[bondom34]

Not whining, just observing. Not sure why you're taking it that way but OK. Just noting patterns. Its an exercise.

[slick_watts]

Not whining, just observing. Not sure why you're taking it that way but OK. Just noting patterns. Its an exercise.

dom, every time you reply to me it's to whine about how i troll or how you don't come here because of me or it's to make up reasons why i left an internet chat (i'm afraid of you? err...). you're the one stifling analysis, not me.

just observing would be reading and keeping all these personal attacks to yourself.

[bondom34]

I'm not a leader.

https://www.gq.com/story/kevin-durant-is-just-heating-up-profile

Didn't realize this was whining.

[slick_watts]

I'm not a leader.

https://www.gq.com/story/kevin-durant-is-just-heating-up-profile

Didn't realize this was whining.

everything that followed was. my thought was genuine. image if westbrook was humble like that? westbrook's humility, or lack thereof, has been a legitimate topic of nba discussion the last two playoffs. it would do him some good, imo!

you can feel free to disagree with that. and i know you do. and that's fine. but instead of disagreeing, or observing, you whined about trolling and it went downhill from there.

so either stick to basketball or just stop dude. i'm sick of everything getting personal with you. you're not even the one who banned me.

[bondom34]

https://www.gq.com/story/kevin-durant-is-just-heating-up-profile

Didn't realize this was whining.

everything that followed was. my thought was genuine. image if westbrook was humble like that? westbrook's humility, or lack thereof, has been a legitimate topic of nba discussion the last two playoffs. it would do him some good, imo!

you can feel free to disagree with that. and i know you do. and that's fine. but instead of disagreeing, or observing, you whined about trolling and it went downhill from there.

so either stick to basketball or just stop dude. i'm sick of everything getting personal with you. you're not even the one who banned me.

Oh, I didn't know he wasn't humble and Durant was. I guess making a bunch of twitter accounts to defend yourself online is a humble deed. Maybe you'd know Kev.

So lets see, you basically took Pill's post of actual info, spun it into some weird anti-Westbrook rant, then kept it going downhill about how he's to blame for Donovan being hired when Durant was the first star of the team at the time. You then went on to call the guy who was so self centered he only cared what others thought of him and makes accounts online to defend himself and referred to him as humble. To add to this, you're complaints whenever someone dares to stand up to you always turn into the same boring back and fort.

And sorry, but nobody buys the being banned thing, every mod there has shown lists of who's banned and pill sent you a new invite right here. So if you want a pity party look elsewhere. If you're done here just let it be, you didn't have to respond to me in the first place, but if you're going to post BS, you're going to get it back.

Pill actually tried to post something factual. And Westbrook's humility, for all his faults, is miles ahead of Durant's.

[slick_watts]

Oh, I didn't know he wasn't humble and Durant was. I guess making a bunch of twitter accounts to defend yourself online is a humble deed. Maybe you'd know Kev.

yes, yes. we disagree on this. i know.

So lets see, you basically took Pill's post of actual info, spun it into some weird anti-Westbrook rant, then kept it going downhill about how he's to blame for Donovan being hired when Durant was the first star of the team at the time.

donovan was hired because the thunder were catering to what they believed their stars wanted in a coach. kevin durant included. they didn't even interview anyone. it was clear what they wanted. i wasn't isolating westbrook there, and he's not isolated now either since paul george has openly remarked on why he enjoys donovan as a coach and it's not because they are winning championships.

and if you actually read what i write, i agree that not adjusting defenses to opponents is a problem. i don't agree that it's valid to claim this isn't variance but also discount a sample of data where the thunder did actively adjust for opponents with the same coaching staff. you can't have that both ways. that's where pillendreher and i disagree. and of course we disagree on how much the players are responsible for this. coaches can only do so much. and westbrook is de facto leader now. when durant was de facto leader this wasn't a problem. ergo.. well, you know.

is that the only factor? is westbrook the only factor? no and no. you guys like to create huge strawman hyperboles out of anything i say!

You then went on to call the guy who was so self centered he only cared what others thought of him and makes accounts online to defend himself and referred to him as humble.

kevin durant was the epitome of 'humble superstar' for years. you can't just erase that because he might not be quite that person now. imagine westbrook with the humility durant had in 2013? yes, i know that quote from durant is from 2017. but he said as much while he was here, too. taking the focus off him and putting it on his teammates.

To add to this, you're complaints whenever someone dares to stand up to you always turn into the same boring back and fort.

i'm complaining because you make it personal. you want to talk basketball and go back and forth on that, i think that's fantastic and that discussion is what the internet was made for. i have no interest in listening to you berate me because of my opinions or because of some chat drama you want to fabricate. that's the stuff i don't care for. i love talking ball with you, dom.

And sorry, but nobody buys the being banned thing, every mod there has shown lists of who's banned and pill sent you a new invite right here. So if you want a pity party look elsewhere. If you're done here just let it be, you didn't have to respond to me in the first place, but if you're going to post BS, you're going to get it back.

i was banned while i was on vacation. i know i'm not banned anymore. no pity party. it's not even relevant if you'd stop making everything personal and bringing it up for some reason. not even pillendreher brings it up!

Pill actually tried to post something factual.

and i appreciate his hard work, as always. there's a lot to unpack as to why the thunder aren't more effective strategically. i hope you're a part of those conversations, dom.

[bondom34]

Oh, I didn't know he wasn't humble and Durant was. I guess making a bunch of twitter accounts to defend yourself online is a humble deed. Maybe you'd know Kev.

yes, yes. we disagree on this. i know.

So lets see, you basically took Pill's post of actual info, spun it into some weird anti-Westbrook rant, then kept it going downhill about how he's to blame for Donovan being hired when Durant was the first star of the team at the time.

donovan was hired because the thunder were catering to what they believed their stars wanted in a coach. kevin durant included. they didn't even interview anyone. it was clear what they wanted. i wasn't isolating westbrook there, and he's not isolated now either since paul george has openly remarked on why he enjoys donovan as a coach and it's not because they are winning championships.

and if you actually read what i write, i agree that not adjusting defenses to opponents is a problem. i don't agree that it's valid to claim this isn't variance but also discount a sample of data where the thunder did actively adjust for opponents with the same coaching staff. you can't have that both ways. that's where pillendreher and i disagree. and of course we disagree on how much the players are responsible for this. coaches can only do so much. and westbrook is de facto leader now. when durant was de facto leader this wasn't a problem. ergo.. well, you know.

is that the only factor? is westbrook the only factor? no and no. you guys like to create huge strawman hyperboles out of anything i say!

You then went on to call the guy who was so self centered he only cared what others thought of him and makes accounts online to defend himself and referred to him as humble.

kevin durant was the epitome of 'humble superstar' for years. you can't just erase that because he might not be quite that person now. imagine westbrook with the humility durant had in 2013? yes, i know that quote from durant is from 2017. but he said as much while he was here, too. taking the focus off him and putting it on his teammates.

To add to this, you're complaints whenever someone dares to stand up to you always turn into the same boring back and fort.

i'm complaining because you make it personal. you want to talk basketball and go back and forth on that, i think that's fantastic and that discussion is what the internet was made for. i have no interest in listening to you berate me because of my opinions or because of some chat drama you want to fabricate. that's the stuff i don't care for. i love talking ball with you, dom.

And sorry, but nobody buys the being banned thing, every mod there has shown lists of who's banned and pill sent you a new invite right here. So if you want a pity party look elsewhere. If you're done here just let it be, you didn't have to respond to me in the first place, but if you're going to post BS, you're going to get it back.

i was banned while i was on vacation. i know i'm not banned anymore. no pity party. it's not even relevant if you'd stop making everything personal and bringing it up for some reason. not even pillendreher brings it up!

Pill actually tried to post something factual.

and i appreciate his hard work, as always. there's a lot to unpack as to why the thunder aren't more effective strategically. i hope you're a part of those conversations, dom.

Oh, OK. Yeah, sorry but not really here. There's a reason for that and I cede as you've been a part of the online community since 2008 you clearly are the smartest person in the room so really we should just listen and not reply. I'll do that for a bit. But going with this as not humble in 2015:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kevin-durant-i-feel-like-im-the-best-player-in-the-world/

KD: "No disrespect to anyone else but I feel like I'm the best player in the world."

That said, I'll leave. There's a reason I and many others don't really bother you much anymore. I'll just leave it at that. Will listen as since I said, you've got seniority.

[Dn4sty]

https://www.gq.com/story/kevin-durant-is-just-heating-up-profile

Didn't realize this was whining.

everything that followed was. my thought was genuine. image if westbrook was humble like that? westbrook's humility, or lack thereof, has been a legitimate topic of nba discussion the last two playoffs. it would do him some good, imo!

you can feel free to disagree with that. and i know you do. and that's fine. but instead of disagreeing, or observing, you whined about trolling and it went downhill from there.

so either stick to basketball or just stop dude. i'm sick of everything getting personal with you. you're not even the one who banned me.

Stop playing innocent. It would be believable if almost your entire posting and interactions since I joined this forum didn’t say otherwise.

You took Bondom post and immediately went back to basically your entire standard operating procedure.

[Dn4sty]

Oh, I didn't know he wasn't humble and Durant was. I guess making a bunch of twitter accounts to defend yourself online is a humble deed. Maybe you'd know Kev.

yes, yes. we disagree on this. i know.

So lets see, you basically took Pill's post of actual info, spun it into some weird anti-Westbrook rant, then kept it going downhill about how he's to blame for Donovan being hired when Durant was the first star of the team at the time.

donovan was hired because the thunder were catering to what they believed their stars wanted in a coach. kevin durant included. they didn't even interview anyone. it was clear what they wanted. i wasn't isolating westbrook there, and he's not isolated now either since paul george has openly remarked on why he enjoys donovan as a coach and it's not because they are winning championships.

and if you actually read what i write, i agree that not adjusting defenses to opponents is a problem. i don't agree that it's valid to claim this isn't variance but also discount a sample of data where the thunder did actively adjust for opponents with the same coaching staff. you can't have that both ways. that's where pillendreher and i disagree. and of course we disagree on how much the players are responsible for this. coaches can only do so much. and westbrook is de facto leader now. when durant was de facto leader this wasn't a problem. ergo.. well, you know.

is that the only factor? is westbrook the only factor? no and no. you guys like to create huge strawman hyperboles out of anything i say!

You then went on to call the guy who was so self centered he only cared what others thought of him and makes accounts online to defend himself and referred to him as humble.

kevin durant was the epitome of 'humble superstar' for years. you can't just erase that because he might not be quite that person now. imagine westbrook with the humility durant had in 2013? yes, i know that quote from durant is from 2017. but he said as much while he was here, too. taking the focus off him and putting it on his teammates.

To add to this, you're complaints whenever someone dares to stand up to you always turn into the same boring back and fort.

i'm complaining because you make it personal. you want to talk basketball and go back and forth on that, i think that's fantastic and that discussion is what the internet was made for. i have no interest in listening to you berate me because of my opinions or because of some chat drama you want to fabricate. that's the stuff i don't care for. i love talking ball with you, dom.

And sorry, but nobody buys the being banned thing, every mod there has shown lists of who's banned and pill sent you a new invite right here. So if you want a pity party look elsewhere. If you're done here just let it be, you didn't have to respond to me in the first place, but if you're going to post BS, you're going to get it back.

i was banned while i was on vacation. i know i'm not banned anymore. no pity party. it's not even relevant if you'd stop making everything personal and bringing it up for some reason. not even pillendreher brings it up!

Pill actually tried to post something factual.

and i appreciate his hard work, as always. there's a lot to unpack as to why the thunder aren't more effective strategically. i hope you're a part of those conversations, dom.

Oh, OK. Yeah, sorry but not really here. There's a reason for that and I cede as you've been a part of the online community since 2008 you clearly are the smartest person in the room so really we should just listen and not reply. I'll do that for a bit. But going with this as not humble in 2015:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kevin-durant-i-feel-like-im-the-best-player-in-the-world/

KD: "No disrespect to anyone else but I feel like I'm the best player in the world."

That said, I'll leave. There's a reason I and many others don't really bother you much anymore. I'll just leave it at that. Will listen as since I said, you've got seniority.

I wouldn’t leave if I were you. I’ve been on enough message boards to see trolling. It’s insane.

[slick_watts]

Oh, OK. Yeah, sorry but not really here. There's a reason for that and I cede as you've been a part of the online community since 2008 you clearly are the smartest person in the room so really we should just listen and not reply. I'll do that for a bit.

dom. you're doing it again. i did not mention my tenure as a thunder internet influencer as a way to demonstrate superiority, i only mentioned it because there's not many areas of the thunder online landscape unfamiliar with me-- as you seem to suggest i'm seeking.

That said, I'll leave. There's a reason I and many others don't really bother you much anymore. I'll just leave it at that. Will listen as since I said, you've got seniority.

you won't leave it at that. every time you say that you come back and harp on me some more. just please when you start up again keep it to basketball, will you?