2018-19 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[inDe_eD]

Unrelated, and not necessarily this specific thread/forum but I'm really starting to think Giannis isn't getting close to his deserved respect. Every thread I see about the best player in the NBA starts with Lebron/Durant/Kawhi, and he's been best of them all to me.

So, not that Giannis isn't one of the very best (and maybe he is even the best), but that Boston series was really underwhelming from a competitive standpoint. Connaughton, and Hill having huge stretches (multiple times), shouldn't be happening in a playoff series.

[bondom34]

Unrelated, and not necessarily this specific thread/forum but I'm really starting to think Giannis isn't getting close to his deserved respect. Every thread I see about the best player in the NBA starts with Lebron/Durant/Kawhi, and he's been best of them all to me.

So, not that Giannis isn't one of the very best (and maybe he is even the best), but that Boston series was really underwhelming from a competitive standpoint. Connaughton, and Hill having huge stretches (multiple times), shouldn't be happening in a playoff series.

Boston just looked awful, but the Bucks have been doing that all year, and Giannis has been able to rest partially because they're that good when he plays. I was really disappointed in Boston.

[GSP]

Unrelated, and not necessarily this specific thread/forum but I'm really starting to think Giannis isn't getting close to his deserved respect. Every thread I see about the best player in the NBA starts with Lebron/Durant/Kawhi, and he's been best of them all to me.

So, not that Giannis isn't one of the very best (and maybe he is even the best), but that Boston series was really underwhelming from a competitive standpoint. Connaughton, and Hill having huge stretches (multiple times), shouldn't be happening in a playoff series.

Considering the Raps wing and Pg depth on the bench i bet itll happen again. Fvv has been trash and the Raps bench is really, really bad

[inDe_eD]

Unrelated, and not necessarily this specific thread/forum but I'm really starting to think Giannis isn't getting close to his deserved respect. Every thread I see about the best player in the NBA starts with Lebron/Durant/Kawhi, and he's been best of them all to me.

So, not that Giannis isn't one of the very best (and maybe he is even the best), but that Boston series was really underwhelming from a competitive standpoint. Connaughton, and Hill having huge stretches (multiple times), shouldn't be happening in a playoff series.

Considering the Raps wing and Pg depth on the bench i bet itll happen again. Fvv has been trash and the Raps bench is really, really bad

I dunno, I doubt it. Kawhi will likely play 42+ minutes a game and he freaking cares. Boston looked like they couldn't be bothered to play in the third quarter most of those games. The talent may not be more overwhelming, but the intensity definitely will be, and i'm not sure how the Bucks are going to respond to that, sans Giannis.

[Texas Chuck]

Unrelated, and not necessarily this specific thread/forum but I'm really starting to think Giannis isn't getting close to his deserved respect. Every thread I see about the best player in the NBA starts with Lebron/Durant/Kawhi, and he's been best of them all to me.

So, not that Giannis isn't one of the very best (and maybe he is even the best), but that Boston series was really underwhelming from a competitive standpoint. Connaughton, and Hill having huge stretches (multiple times), shouldn't be happening in a playoff series.

Why not? How is that a negative reflection on Giannis? Don't we complement those stars whose games allow others to thrive like Steph or Dirk and criticize guys like Lebron and Westbrook?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are meaning here?

[iggymcfrack]

Unrelated, and not necessarily this specific thread/forum but I'm really starting to think Giannis isn't getting close to his deserved respect. Every thread I see about the best player in the NBA starts with Lebron/Durant/Kawhi, and he's been best of them all to me.

I feel like in my POY vote, Giannis is firmly in first as he’s clearly had the most impressive performance over the course of the year, but if you’re asking who I actually think is the best player right now, I’d go Kawhi because this is the 3rd postseason in a row he’s done this and he explicitly called the regular season “82 practices” after coming off an injury. Does that make sense? Like “best player this year” and “best player right now” aren’t necessarily the same thing. My lists right now would look roughly like this:

POY
1. Giannis
2. Harden/Kawhi
4. Jokic/George
6. Durant

Best player
1. Kawhi
2. Giannis/LeBron
4. AD
5. Harden/Durant

[bondom34]

Unrelated, and not necessarily this specific thread/forum but I'm really starting to think Giannis isn't getting close to his deserved respect. Every thread I see about the best player in the NBA starts with Lebron/Durant/Kawhi, and he's been best of them all to me.

I feel like in my POY vote, Giannis is firmly in first as he’s clearly had the most impressive performance over the course of the year, but if you’re asking who I actually think is the best player right now, I’d go Kawhi because this is the 3rd postseason in a row he’s done this and he explicitly called the regular season “82 practices” after coming off an injury. Does that make sense? Like “best player this year” and “best player right now” aren’t necessarily the same thing. My lists right now would look roughly like this:

POY
1. Giannis
2. Harden/Kawhi
4. Jokic/George
6. Durant

Best player
1. Kawhi
2. Giannis/LeBron
4. AD
5. Harden/Durant

Honestly, I haven't seen anything from Giannis showing me he's not worthy of being first in both.

[iggymcfrack]

Unrelated, and not necessarily this specific thread/forum but I'm really starting to think Giannis isn't getting close to his deserved respect. Every thread I see about the best player in the NBA starts with Lebron/Durant/Kawhi, and he's been best of them all to me.

I feel like in my POY vote, Giannis is firmly in first as he’s clearly had the most impressive performance over the course of the year, but if you’re asking who I actually think is the best player right now, I’d go Kawhi because this is the 3rd postseason in a row he’s done this and he explicitly called the regular season “82 practices” after coming off an injury. Does that make sense? Like “best player this year” and “best player right now” aren’t necessarily the same thing. My lists right now would look roughly like this:

POY
1. Giannis
2. Harden/Kawhi
4. Jokic/George
6. Durant

Best player
1. Kawhi
2. Giannis/LeBron
4. AD
5. Harden/Durant

Honestly, I haven't seen anything from Giannis showing me he's not worthy of being first in both.

He’s played great. He certainly hasn’t done anything “wrong” and he could still easily finish first in both at the end of this series. However, gun to my head if I’m picking one guy for a playoff series, I’m gonna take the guy that’s dominated the playoffs for three straight years in different systems with different teams over the guy who was pretty good for a while and then dominated the Pistons and Celtics for 2 series while playing in a perfect system.

[bondom34]

I feel like in my POY vote, Giannis is firmly in first as he’s clearly had the most impressive performance over the course of the year, but if you’re asking who I actually think is the best player right now, I’d go Kawhi because this is the 3rd postseason in a row he’s done this and he explicitly called the regular season “82 practices” after coming off an injury. Does that make sense? Like “best player this year” and “best player right now” aren’t necessarily the same thing. My lists right now would look roughly like this:

POY
1. Giannis
2. Harden/Kawhi
4. Jokic/George
6. Durant

Best player
1. Kawhi
2. Giannis/LeBron
4. AD
5. Harden/Durant

Honestly, I haven't seen anything from Giannis showing me he's not worthy of being first in both.

He’s played great. He certainly hasn’t done anything “wrong” and he could still easily finish first in both at the end of this series. However, gun to my head if I’m picking one guy for a playoff series, I’m gonna take the guy that’s dominated the playoffs for three straight years in different systems with different teams over the guy who was pretty good for a while and then dominated the Pistons and Celtics for 2 series while playing in a perfect system.

I mean he was pretty awesome last year too against a Boston team that had him severely outmatched. I get Kawhi has longevity, but Giannis was better than pretty good, he dominated as well.

[iggymcfrack]

Honestly, I haven't seen anything from Giannis showing me he's not worthy of being first in both.

He’s played great. He certainly hasn’t done anything “wrong” and he could still easily finish first in both at the end of this series. However, gun to my head if I’m picking one guy for a playoff series, I’m gonna take the guy that’s dominated the playoffs for three straight years in different systems with different teams over the guy who was pretty good for a while and then dominated the Pistons and Celtics for 2 series while playing in a perfect system.

I mean he was pretty awesome last year too against a Boston team that had him severely outmatched. I get Kawhi has longevity, but Giannis was better than pretty good, he dominated as well.

Last playoffs before this year, Giannis put up a 26.6 PER on .620 TS% with an on/off of -4.6 over 7 games.

Last playoffs before this year, Kawhi put up a 31.5 PER on .672 TS% with an on/off of +22.2 over 12 games.

Again, certainly nothing wrong with what Giannis did. It was objectively a very good performance. But it doesn’t compare to this 3-year run from Kawhi which is honestly one of the best postseason stretches of all time.

[bondom34]

He’s played great. He certainly hasn’t done anything “wrong” and he could still easily finish first in both at the end of this series. However, gun to my head if I’m picking one guy for a playoff series, I’m gonna take the guy that’s dominated the playoffs for three straight years in different systems with different teams over the guy who was pretty good for a while and then dominated the Pistons and Celtics for 2 series while playing in a perfect system.

I mean he was pretty awesome last year too against a Boston team that had him severely outmatched. I get Kawhi has longevity, but Giannis was better than pretty good, he dominated as well.

Last playoffs before this year, Giannis put up a 26.6 PER on .620 TS% with an on/off of -4.6 over 7 games.

Last playoffs before this year, Kawhi put up a 31.5 PER on .672 TS% with an on/off of +22.2 over 12 games.

Again, certainly nothing wrong with what Giannis did. It was objectively a very good performance. But it doesn’t compare to this 3-year run from Kawhi which is honestly one of the best postseason stretches of all time.

Kawhi wasn't even in the playoffs last year. I'd just disagree in using past performance for current level of play personally.

[iggymcfrack]

I mean he was pretty awesome last year too against a Boston team that had him severely outmatched. I get Kawhi has longevity, but Giannis was better than pretty good, he dominated as well.

Last playoffs before this year, Giannis put up a 26.6 PER on .620 TS% with an on/off of -4.6 over 7 games.

Last playoffs before this year, Kawhi put up a 31.5 PER on .672 TS% with an on/off of +22.2 over 12 games.

Again, certainly nothing wrong with what Giannis did. It was objectively a very good performance. But it doesn’t compare to this 3-year run from Kawhi which is honestly one of the best postseason stretches of all time.

Kawhi wasn't even in the playoffs last year. I'd just disagree in using past performance for current level of play personally.

I mean, when he’s injured and then plays mediocre throughout the regular season, you question it, sure, but then when the playoffs start and he goes right back to the same level that he was at previously, I’ve gotta believe that he’s recovered and he’s the same guy. There’s two guys in the league right now that have a history of consistently elevating their game in the playoffs: LeBron James and Kawhi Leonard. LeBron was injured this year, is 34, and missed the playoffs this season, so he’s at least a question mark. Kawhi’s 27 years old and he’s given every sign of being fully recovered and healthy. I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[bondom34]

Last playoffs before this year, Giannis put up a 26.6 PER on .620 TS% with an on/off of -4.6 over 7 games.

Last playoffs before this year, Kawhi put up a 31.5 PER on .672 TS% with an on/off of +22.2 over 12 games.

Again, certainly nothing wrong with what Giannis did. It was objectively a very good performance. But it doesn’t compare to this 3-year run from Kawhi which is honestly one of the best postseason stretches of all time.

Kawhi wasn't even in the playoffs last year. I'd just disagree in using past performance for current level of play personally.

I mean, when he’s injured and then plays mediocre throughout the regular season, you question it, sure, but then when the playoffs start and he goes right back to the same level that he was at previously, I’ve gotta believe that he’s recovered and he’s the same guy. There’s two guys in the league right now that have a history of consistently elevating their game in the playoffs: LeBron James and Kawhi Leonard. LeBron was injured this year, is 34, and missed the playoffs this season, so he’s at least a question mark. Kawhi’s 27 years old and he’s given every sign of being fully recovered and healthy. I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Oh I do, and he's great. But there's something more important to me about bringing it for 82 and then still dominating a postseason. I get your POV as well, just look at it from a different spot myself.

[inDe_eD]

Unrelated, and not necessarily this specific thread/forum but I'm really starting to think Giannis isn't getting close to his deserved respect. Every thread I see about the best player in the NBA starts with Lebron/Durant/Kawhi, and he's been best of them all to me.

So, not that Giannis isn't one of the very best (and maybe he is even the best), but that Boston series was really underwhelming from a competitive standpoint. Connaughton, and Hill having huge stretches (multiple times), shouldn't be happening in a playoff series.

Why not? How is that a negative reflection on Giannis? Don't we complement those stars whose games allow others to thrive like Steph or Dirk and criticize guys like Lebron and Westbrook?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are meaning here?

I didn't make my point clear enough I think. It's not a criticism of Giannis, just that the Bucks as a team haven't been tested yet. The Boston series looked more like a string of regular season games than it did a physical playoff series. Maybe that's just how good Milwaukee is, but I'm still leaning towards subpar competition so far.

[Texas Chuck]

I didn't make my point clear enough I think. It's not a criticism of Giannis, just that the Bucks as a team haven't been tested yet. The Boston series looked more like a string of regular season games than it did a physical playoff series. Maybe that's just how good Milwaukee is, but I'm still leaning towards subpar competition so far.

Thanks for clarifying. I definitely read something different into your post. I get what you were saying now and it certainly has some merit. The question is whether or not Boston was still that well-coached, battle-tested team we've seen in previous playoff years or if all the inner turmoil had them a shell of what they could have been?

I tend to think largely the latter, but I can't dismiss the possibility that the Bucks are just that good. Because I'm convinced they are really really good.

I made a bold prediction before the 2nd round that the Bucks would walk into the Finals. Then they lost game 1 agaisnt Boston and I thought I better get some seasoning for that crow I'm going to have to eat, but then from there it went pretty much as I expected. I have a lot of respect for Kawhi and the Raps, but I just think they are outmatched here as a team. Kawhi has to decisively win the superstar matchup because I have the supporting cast/coaching as a strong edge for the Bucks.

[inDe_eD]

I didn't make my point clear enough I think. It's not a criticism of Giannis, just that the Bucks as a team haven't been tested yet. The Boston series looked more like a string of regular season games than it did a physical playoff series. Maybe that's just how good Milwaukee is, but I'm still leaning towards subpar competition so far.

Thanks for clarifying. I definitely read something different into your post. I get what you were saying now and it certainly has some merit. The question is whether or not Boston was still that well-coached, battle-tested team we've seen in previous playoff years or if all the inner turmoil had them a shell of what they could have been?

I tend to think largely the latter, but I can't dismiss the possibility that the Bucks are just that good. Because I'm convinced they are really really good.

I made a bold prediction before the 2nd round that the Bucks would walk into the Finals. Then they lost game 1 agaisnt Boston and I thought I better get some seasoning for that crow I'm going to have to eat, but then from there it went pretty much as I expected. I have a lot of respect for Kawhi and the Raps, but I just think they are outmatched here as a team. Kawhi has to decisively win the superstar matchup because I have the supporting cast/coaching as a strong edge for the Bucks.

There's definitely a chance that the Bucks do their thing, shoot well, and go up 2-0, and then i'd agree, it's all over. The Buck's talent isn't better though imo, and I think the odds are much better that the Buck's roleplaying dudes get swallowed up and suddenly it looks like Giannis and a bunch of other guys who haven't been there before against a really nasty Toronto defense. On top of that, this Raptors squad is a very streaky shooting squad. If they can start hitting some shots, everyone's going to start wondering why they ever questioned Toronto's offense to begin with.

[Peregrine01]

If GSW makes it to the finals again, Draymond absolutely needs consideration for POY.

[Basileus777]

If GSW makes it to the finals again, Draymond absolutely needs consideration for POY.

His regular season play is going to make that argument extremely difficult.

[Peregrine01]

If GSW makes it to the finals again, Draymond absolutely needs consideration for POY.

His regular season play is going to make that argument extremely difficult.

I agree but he’s been the clear best player on the Warriors in the playoffs. That should count for something.

[Jaivl]

If GSW makes it to the finals again, Draymond absolutely needs consideration for POY.

His regular season play is going to make that argument extremely difficult.

So does Kawhi's for top 1 consideration, and...