Potential Offseason Moves

Post #1 » by **VCfor3** » Wed May 15, 2019 1:57 pm

Just thought it would be interesting to try and work through the different options we have this summer from trades to FA (MLE) to resigning our own guys to the draft. I'll try to keep a running list of the options discussed.

Conley trades:

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Other trades:

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Draft:

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MLE targets:

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Our FAs:

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Current roster:

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Post #2 » by **VCfor3** » Wed May 15, 2019 2:06 pm

If Conley gets moved for #6 or #7 would we prefer RJ+Garland (no guarantee he falls) or Ja+anyone besides Culver/Hunter/Zion/RJ (though Culver or Hunter could fall)?

Whole Truth · Post #3 » by **Whole Truth** » Wed May 15, 2019 3:38 pm

VCfor3 wrote:If Conley gets moved for #6 or #7 would we prefer RJ+Garland (no guarantee he falls) or Ja+anyone besides Culver/Hunter/Zion/RJ (though Culver or Hunter could fall)?

Garland is mocked at 4, earmarked for a Davis trade & if he wasn't, Suns would take him at 6 over trading for Conley. I'd assume the premise of them trading their pick for Conley would be that both Ja & Garland are off the board. So you wouldn't be getting your wing/PG combo in drafting RJ over Ja & trading back in at 6/7.

IMO, Ja as a prospect has the edge over RJ at almost everything, athleticism, handles, shooting, creating/passing, rebounding for his position & even potentially defense. RJ is a scorer who can't shoot with tunnel vision, the only thing he has over Ja, is strength but even then at 170 lbs Ja is fearless at the rim, which bolds well for when he gets NBA strength training. This, not mentioning fit, which allows Memphis to trade Conley back in for a wing/forward or Hayes.

Concerning your trade scenario's. I like the Charlotte trade for Memphis but don't see how it makes sense for them trading for 2yrs of 30+ yo PG by dumping all their future because they lost Kemba. No to Harris & that Boston trade, Hayward at 30m is a negative contract. I'd consider his inclusion a salary dump for Boston, so they would have to add the 14th (Johnson) or 20th pick (Hero) with the Memphis pick for me to like that deal. It's plausible that Memphis pick could easily find itself in the teens in 2 yrs making the deal even worse.

If Memphis needs to be in the lotto 4yrs straight years after picking top 5 3yrs in a row, things would have had to gone wrong with their selections. Personally, I wouldn't beat up about owing the 2021 pick having lucked into pairing Jaren with JA or RJ & the 2020 pick being top 6 protected. In a scenario where they don't convey next year, Memphis would be conveying the 2021 pick having been top 5 in the draft, 3yrs straight which should be a strong enough foundation to build off of not considering the other assets on roster that they could consolidate in trade or turn over value ... Parsons will be coming off the books, I haven't checked but do you really want to deal Conley to add Haywars 30m salary just so you can get the Memphis pick back, which might not even be top 10 2yrs from now?.

Post #4 » by **VCfor3** » Wed May 15, 2019 3:47 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:If Conley gets moved for #6 or #7 would we prefer RJ+Garland (no guarantee he falls) or Ja+anyone besides Culver/Hunter/Zion/RJ (though Culver or Hunter could fall)?

Garland is mocked at 4, earmarked for a Davis trade & if he wasn't, Suns would take him at 6 over trading for Conley. I'd assume the premise of them trading their pick for Conley would be that both Ja & Garland are off the board. So you wouldn't be getting your wing/PG combo in drafting RJ over Ja & trading back in at 6/7.

IMO, Ja as a prospect has the edge over RJ at almost everything, athleticism, handles, shooting, creating/passing, rebounding for his position & even potentially defense. RJ is a scorer who can't shoot with tunnel vision, the only thing he has over Ja, is strength but even then at 170 lbs Ja is fearless at the rim, which bolds well for when he gets NBA strength training. This, not mentioning fit, which allows Memphis to trade Conley back in for a wing/forward or Hayes.

Concerning your trade scenario's. I like the Charlotte trade for Memphis but don't see how it makes sense for them trading for 2yrs of 30+ yo PG by dumping all their future because they lost Kemba. No to Harris & that Boston trade, Hayward at 30m is a negative contract. I'd consider his inclusion a salary dump for Boston, so they would have to add the 14th (Johnson) or 20th pick (Hero) with the Memphis pick for me to like that deal. It's plausible that Memphis pick could easily find itself in the teens in 2 yrs making the deal even worse.

If Memphis needs to be in the lotto 4yrs straight years after picking top 5 3yrs in a row, things would have had to gone wrong with their selections. Personally, I wouldn't beat up about owing the 2021 pick having lucked into pairing Jaren with JA or RJ & the 2020 pick being top 6 protected. In a scenario where they don't convey next year, Memphis would be conveying the 2021 pick having been top 5 in the draft, 3yrs straight which should be a strong enough foundation to build off of not considering the other assets on roster that they could consolidate in trade or turn over value ... Parsons will be coming off the books, I haven't checked but do you really want to deal Conley to add Haywars 30m salary just so you can get the Memphis pick back, which might not even be top 10 2yrs from now?.

I forgot to add in #20 in the Boston deal. Good catch. And the Charlotte scenarios are only if Kemba agrees to resign and even then it may require a "I'll resign if you prove to me you are all in on winning and not wasting my future" stipulation from Kemba. Kemba was supposedly upset with CHA not making any moves to help them get to the playoffs at the deadline.

The reasons PHX may consider #6 for Conley over Garland is maybe they think Booker+Garland would be atrocious on defense and/or they want veteran help to come in so that they can compete now and keep Booker happy (though Booker is locked up long term and has little to no leverage).

Whole Truth · Post #5 » by **Whole Truth** » Wed May 15, 2019 4:14 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:If Conley gets moved for #6 or #7 would we prefer RJ+Garland (no guarantee he falls) or Ja+anyone besides Culver/Hunter/Zion/RJ (though Culver or Hunter could fall)?

Garland is mocked at 4, earmarked for a Davis trade & if he wasn't, Suns would take him at 6 over trading for Conley. I'd assume the premise of them trading their pick for Conley would be that both Ja & Garland are off the board. So you wouldn't be getting your wing/PG combo in drafting RJ over Ja & trading back in at 6/7.

IMO, Ja as a prospect has the edge over RJ at almost everything, athleticism, handles, shooting, creating/passing, rebounding for his position & even potentially defense. RJ is a scorer who can't shoot with tunnel vision, the only thing he has over Ja, is strength but even then at 170 lbs Ja is fearless at the rim, which bolds well for when he gets NBA strength training. This, not mentioning fit, which allows Memphis to trade Conley back in for a wing/forward or Hayes.

Concerning your trade scenario's. I like the Charlotte trade for Memphis but don't see how it makes sense for them trading for 2yrs of 30+ yo PG by dumping all their future because they lost Kemba. No to Harris & that Boston trade, Hayward at 30m is a negative contract. I'd consider his inclusion a salary dump for Boston, so they would have to add the 14th (Johnson) or 20th pick (Hero) with the Memphis pick for me to like that deal. It's plausible that Memphis pick could easily find itself in the teens in 2 yrs making the deal even worse.

If Memphis needs to be in the lotto 4yrs straight years after picking top 5 3yrs in a row, things would have had to gone wrong with their selections. Personally, I wouldn't beat up about owing the 2021 pick having lucked into pairing Jaren with JA or RJ & the 2020 pick being top 6 protected. In a scenario where they don't convey next year, Memphis would be conveying the 2021 pick having been top 5 in the draft, 3yrs straight which should be a strong enough foundation to build off of not considering the other assets on roster that they could consolidate in trade or turn over value ... Parsons will be coming off the books, I haven't checked but do you really want to deal Conley to add Haywars 30m salary just so you can get the Memphis pick back, which might not even be top 10 2yrs from now?.

I forgot to add in #20 in the Boston deal. Good catch. And the Charlotte scenarios are only if Kemba agrees to resign and even then it may require a "I'll resign if you prove to me you are all in on winning and not wasting my future" stipulation from Kemba. Kemba was supposedly upset with CHA not making any moves to help them get to the playoffs at the deadline.

The reasons PHX may consider #6 for Conley over Garland is maybe they think Booker+Garland would be atrocious on defense and/or they want veteran help to come in so that they can compete now and keep Booker happy (though Booker is locked up long term and has little to no leverage).

I'd like to get Hero at 20 but that Boston deal could go wrong in several ways for Memphis. A desperate Boston net a quality replacement for losing Kyrie, salary dump Haywards 30m who's presence affected this years roster from last years success for the 20th pick in a non deep draft & potentially a Memphis pick outside the lotto. I believe sometime you have to lose to win but don't see that clear angle with this trade.

Didn't realize your attempt was to pair Conley with Walker ... At any rate, Charlotte find themselves in no mans land either way & should look to rebuild themselves instead of supermaxing Walker to a treadmill team unless it's to turn over his value in trade..

Good point about the defense but If I were Suns I'd be considering cost control over a short term fix unless I completely miss out on a PG.

Whole Truth · Post #6 » by **Whole Truth** » Wed May 15, 2019 4:40 pm

Memphis trade - (Conley 30m 2yr) to Chicago for (Otto Porter JR 26m 2yr, 4m TE)

Jonas / Noah / Rabb

3J / Bruno / Parsons

Porter JR / Anderson / Miles

Holiday / Bradley / Brooks

Ja / Wright / Carter

Post #7 » by **VCfor3** » Wed May 15, 2019 4:47 pm

Whole Truth wrote:Memphis trade - (Conley 30m 2yr) to Chicago for (Otto Porter JR 26m 2yr, 4m TE)

Jonas / Noah / Rabb

3J / Bruno / Parsons

Porter JR / Anderson / Miles

Holiday / Bradley / Brooks

Ja / Wright / Carter

I like Porter Jr but would want to try and at least get our 2nds back as well ha. I'm not sure what return I like best for Conley. A guy entering his prime who can help us be competitive the next few years or a draft pick/very young player who can fit the Ja/JJJ timeline.

Whole Truth · Post #8 » by **Whole Truth** » Wed May 15, 2019 5:02 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Memphis trade - (Conley 30m 2yr) to Chicago for (Otto Porter JR 26m 2yr, 4m TE)

Jonas / Noah / Rabb

3J / Bruno / Parsons

Porter JR / Anderson / Miles

Holiday / Bradley / Brooks

Ja / Wright / Carter

I like Porter Jr but would want to try and at least get our 2nds back as well ha. I'm not sure what return I like best for Conley. A guy entering his prime who can help us be competitive the next few years or a draft pick/very young player who can fit the Ja/JJJ timeline.

My preference would be a long term solution over a temporary one, just tossing out another potential trade scenario, if the prior is not an option.

Another straight up trade I'd like would be for Gordon if Magic are willing. He's still only 23 & has already tasted playoffs. Was probably Magics best player in that series along with Ross being a threat from 3.

Post #9 » by **VCfor3** » Wed May 15, 2019 5:12 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Memphis trade - (Conley 30m 2yr) to Chicago for (Otto Porter JR 26m 2yr, 4m TE)

Jonas / Noah / Rabb

3J / Bruno / Parsons

Porter JR / Anderson / Miles

Holiday / Bradley / Brooks

Ja / Wright / Carter

I like Porter Jr but would want to try and at least get our 2nds back as well ha. I'm not sure what return I like best for Conley. A guy entering his prime who can help us be competitive the next few years or a draft pick/very young player who can fit the Ja/JJJ timeline.

My preference would be a long term solution over a temporary one, just tossing out another potential trade scenario, if the prior is not an option.

Another straight up trade I'd like would be for Gordon if Magic are willing. He's still only 23 & has already tasted playoffs. Was probably Magics best player in that series along with Ross being a threat from 3.

Yeah. Gordon would be one of my preferred ones from the list. I also don't hate getting Sabonis, Mikal Bridges, or Gary Harris. I really doubt CHA would do the proposed trade for Conley and JV, but if they did I'd really like adding Miles to our core and getting another young player with their pick. I like Herro as well and don't mind adding him especially if we could maybe trade back from 12 a bit to gain additional assets. Ja/Herro/Bridges/JJJ is a decent start to a rebuild.

psman2 · Post #10 » by **psman2** » Wed May 15, 2019 5:54 pm

BOS: Hayward+#20+Mem 1st for Conley
If Irving leaves

I think if Irving leaves then Boston would like to try to make a three way SNT work. Give a couple of 2nds to the team signing Irving to play nice. Bring Memphis into the trade for our pick back. I view Gordon as a negative contract but if Boston wants to compete they likely rather gamble on a Gordon rebound, they would have a higher positive variance than if they let Irving walk and did the Gordon/Conley swap. Boston looks to deal Brown for the best PF they can get and completes with a possibility better fitting roster.

We also would get a giant TPE here to possible get more assets.

Post #11 » by **VCfor3** » Wed May 15, 2019 6:48 pm

psman2 wrote:BOS: Hayward+#20+Mem 1st for Conley
If Irving leaves

I think if Irving leaves then Boston would like to try to make a three way SNT work. Give a couple of 2nds to the team signing Irving to play nice. Bring Memphis into the trade for our pick back. I view Gordon as a negative contract but if Boston wants to compete they likely rather gamble on a Gordon rebound, they would have a higher positive variance than if they let Irving walk and did the Gordon/Conley swap. Boston looks to deal Brown for the best PF they can get and completes with a possibility better fitting roster.

We also would get a giant TPE here to possible get more assets.

That's definitely a solid option. Conley for our pick+TPE (I'd still ask for #22 as well ha).

Whole Truth · Post #12 » by **Whole Truth** » Wed May 15, 2019 7:43 pm

psman2 wrote:BOS: Hayward+#20+Mem 1st for Conley
If Irving leaves

I think if Irving leaves then Boston would like to try to make a three way SNT work. Give a couple of 2nds to the team signing Irving to play nice. Bring Memphis into the trade for our pick back. I view Gordon as a negative contract but if Boston wants to compete they likely rather gamble on a Gordon rebound, they would have a higher positive variance than if they let Irving walk and did the Gordon/Conley swap. Boston looks to deal Brown for the best PF they can get and completes with a possibility better fitting roster.

We also would get a giant TPE here to possible get more assets.

How are you getting a large trade exception with Boston, if Hayward is in the deal?. Am I reading your trade wrong?.

Hayward is 31m 2yrs, Conley is 30m 2yrs. It would be Boston getting a 1m TE.

The 2 teams that could land Memphis a large TE is NY or LA & that is because they have their cap structured for 2 max contracts & no fillers to match salary unless they give up all their cheap depth. Everyone else is going to send back fillers but Memphis have leverage of these teams short windows of contention with Lebron & or KD if he signs with NY (Only one will manage to sign Kyrie). Smith has it rumored KD & Kyrie are 95% ending up with the Knicks. I don't know which will come out with Davis but LA would be in need of a quality PG, who can actually shoot to help space the court for Lebron.

If Bulls are interested in trading the 7th pick for Ball (rumored), Memphis could trade Conley for Ball straight up & create a 23m TE, flip Ball to Chicago for their #7 pick, filler. With that 7th pick it would be a toss up of Hayes, Reddish, Johnson, White, Culver for me to pair with JA.

Wish I could sit in on Memphis workouts.

Whole Truth · Post #13 » by **Whole Truth** » Wed May 15, 2019 7:48 pm

Just heard on the jump that NO's is not interested in dealing with the Lakers.

psman2 · Post #14 » by **psman2** » Wed May 15, 2019 7:55 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
psman2 wrote:BOS: Hayward+#20+Mem 1st for Conley
If Irving leaves

I think if Irving leaves then Boston would like to try to make a three way SNT work. Give a couple of 2nds to the team signing Irving to play nice. Bring Memphis into the trade for our pick back. I view Gordon as a negative contract but if Boston wants to compete they likely rather gamble on a Gordon rebound, they would have a higher positive variance than if they let Irving walk and did the Gordon/Conley swap. Boston looks to deal Brown for the best PF they can get and completes with a possibility better fitting roster.

We also would get a giant TPE here to possible get more assets.

How are you getting a large trade exception with Boston, if Hayward is in the deal?. Am I reading your trade wrong?.

Hayward is 31m 2yrs, Conley is 30m 2yrs. It would be Boston getting a 1m TE.

The 2 teams that could land Memphis a large TE is NY or LA & that is because they have their cap structured for 2 max contracts & no fillers to match salary unless they give up all their cheap depth. Everyone else is going to send back fillers but Memphis have leverage of these teams short windows of contention with Lebron & or KD if he signs with NY (Only one will manage to sign Kyrie). Smith has it rumored KD & Kyrie are 95% ending up with the Knicks. I don't know which will come out with Davis but LA would be in need of a quality PG, who can actually shoot to help space the court for Lebron.

If Bulls are interested in trading the 7th pick for Ball (rumored), Memphis could trade Conley for Ball straight up & create a 23m TE, flip Ball to Chicago for their #7 pick, filler. With that 7th pick it would be a toss up of Hayes, Reddish, Johnson, White, Culver for me to pair with JA.

Wish I could sit in on Memphis workouts.

No Boston is keeping Gordon in my scenario.

Irving goes to team with cap space, that team receives some 2nds to make it a SNT. Now Boston can leave it at that and have a big TPE or simply make it a three way with Memphis sending Conley in exchange for just draft picks and no incoming salary. I would do it for Brown for just Brown as well. Thus a giant TPE for us.

Whole Truth · Post #15 » by **Whole Truth** » Wed May 15, 2019 8:15 pm

psman2 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
psman2 wrote:BOS: Hayward+#20+Mem 1st for Conley
If Irving leaves

I think if Irving leaves then Boston would like to try to make a three way SNT work. Give a couple of 2nds to the team signing Irving to play nice. Bring Memphis into the trade for our pick back. I view Gordon as a negative contract but if Boston wants to compete they likely rather gamble on a Gordon rebound, they would have a higher positive variance than if they let Irving walk and did the Gordon/Conley swap. Boston looks to deal Brown for the best PF they can get and completes with a possibility better fitting roster.

We also would get a giant TPE here to possible get more assets.

How are you getting a large trade exception with Boston, if Hayward is in the deal?. Am I reading your trade wrong?.

Hayward is 31m 2yrs, Conley is 30m 2yrs. It would be Boston getting a 1m TE.

The 2 teams that could land Memphis a large TE is NY or LA & that is because they have their cap structured for 2 max contracts & no fillers to match salary unless they give up all their cheap depth. Everyone else is going to send back fillers but Memphis have leverage of these teams short windows of contention with Lebron & or KD if he signs with NY (Only one will manage to sign Kyrie). Smith has it rumored KD & Kyrie are 95% ending up with the Knicks. I don't know which will come out with Davis but LA would be in need of a quality PG, who can actually shoot to help space the court for Lebron.

If Bulls are interested in trading the 7th pick for Ball (rumored), Memphis could trade Conley for Ball straight up & create a 23m TE, flip Ball to Chicago for their #7 pick, filler. With that 7th pick it would be a toss up of Hayes, Reddish, Johnson, White, Culver for me to pair with JA.

Wish I could sit in on Memphis workouts.

No Boston is keeping Gordon in my scenario.

Irving goes to team with cap space, that team receives some 2nds to make it a SNT. Now Boston can leave it at that and have a big TPE or simply make it a three way with Memphis sending Conley in exchange for just draft picks and no incoming salary. I would do it for Brown for just Brown as well. Thus a giant TPE for us.

Miss read your post.

S.A.Smith tweeted claims that there's 95% chance Kyrie is walking to NY with Durant. Boston will have no leverage for a S & T.

psman2 · Post #16 » by **psman2** » Wed May 15, 2019 8:27 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
psman2 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
How are you getting a large trade exception with Boston, if Hayward is in the deal?. Am I reading your trade wrong?.

Hayward is 31m 2yrs, Conley is 30m 2yrs. It would be Boston getting a 1m TE.

The 2 teams that could land Memphis a large TE is NY or LA & that is because they have their cap structured for 2 max contracts & no fillers to match salary unless they give up all their cheap depth. Everyone else is going to send back fillers but Memphis have leverage of these teams short windows of contention with Lebron & or KD if he signs with NY (Only one will manage to sign Kyrie). Smith has it rumored KD & Kyrie are 95% ending up with the Knicks. I don't know which will come out with Davis but LA would be in need of a quality PG, who can actually shoot to help space the court for Lebron.

If Bulls are interested in trading the 7th pick for Ball (rumored), Memphis could trade Conley for Ball straight up & create a 23m TE, flip Ball to Chicago for their #7 pick, filler. With that 7th pick it would be a toss up of Hayes, Reddish, Johnson, White, Culver for me to pair with JA.

Wish I could sit in on Memphis workouts.

No Boston is keeping Gordon in my scenario.

Irving goes to team with cap space, that team receives some 2nds to make it a SNT. Now Boston can leave it at that and have a big TPE or simply make it a three way with Memphis sending Conley in exchange for just draft picks and no incoming salary. I would do it for Brown for just Brown as well. Thus a giant TPE for us.

Miss read your post.

S.A.Smith tweeted claims that there's 95% chance Kyrie is walking to NY with Durant. Boston will have no leverage for a S & T.

They don't need leverage. If you are NY and you are signing Kyrie why wouldn't take some free draft picks to make it a SNT. Maybe not since NYK management sucks and they want to stick it to Boston, but they should. NYK are going to need cheap young players to fit around their big 2 or 3 and even 2nd rounder can help.

Post #17 » by **VCfor3** » Wed May 15, 2019 11:20 pm

Read on Twitter

Looks like Ja is the pick

Post #18 » by **boogiesdad** » Wed May 15, 2019 11:38 pm

I'm personally in favor of a Conley for #4 pick. Probably the best deal that LA can get for the pick by itself. LA has the cap room to absorb the trade straight up.

Post #19 » by **VCfor3** » Wed May 15, 2019 11:40 pm

boogiesdad wrote:I'm personally in favor of a Conley for #4 pick. Probably the best deal that LA can get for the pick by itself. LA has the cap room to absorb the trade straight up.

That would be ideal. I just don't see them doing that until after FA if they strike out.

Post #20 » by **jman3134** » Thu May 16, 2019 5:05 am

Any potential Knicks trade ideas? Conley+ for the #3. Obviously, this assumes that Kyrie to the Knicks isn't a sure thing.

I absolutely love drafting Ja at #2 and believe he will be a game changer. With that said, rumblings are that the Knicks are offering up the #3 pick to the right bidder. This makes sense on the surface if they are going to acquire Durant and whichever other big name free agent he attracts. Barrett, at only 18 years old, is incredibly underrated. We have never had a 1-2 backcourt punch like Ja-RJ and this would build a healthy nucleus that would contend.

In any other draft, RJ is a top pick imho. If we can make the right offer, we would have the best young team in the league. Ja-RJ-JJ

As for the posts I have seen, I would do a Conley - Mikal Bridges swap if the Knicks do not bite. The rest of the team is expendable.