Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE)

[Mizerooskie]

I wouldn’t trade Beal...
We lucked out on Zion...
Package that 9th pick for a starting pf
Wall with be back from injury early (tanking excuse)
Make a push

This is the Ernie Grunfeld "hey, maybe we can sneak into the playoffs in the weak East and go on a run" method. No thanks.

We don't have a superstar centerpiece. Everything else is moot until we get that. When was the last time a team won a title without one? Detroit in 2004?

Wall isn't that, and his game will regress quickly without speed to rely on. Beal isn't that, and I don't think he becomes that. We can't get one in free agency with two supermax deals on the books.

The best way to get one is through the draft, or clearing out cap space for a free agency run in 3-4 years. Acquire high draft assets and clear the books of long-term contracts. That's the only reasonable way forward.

[Dark Faze]

I don't think Ted has the heart to let everything collapse in on John before he gets a chance to show if he can come back from the injury. And the lottery results being what they were completely reinforce (for better or worse) Ted's stance of just trying to win games without sacrificing the future and see what happens.

I think he'd be perfectly fine with the team being a below tax lottery team in the next two seasons without committing to a tank. The question is how he'd publicly speak about the goals for the team. It's been "make the playoffs" the last few years. It's going to be hard to create any kind of metric by which to judge success or failure for the new GM and Brooks.

[The Consiglieri]

I mean, Clippers got 2 firsts and a young prospect in return for Tobias Harris - a non all star on an expiring deal whose older then Beal. Beal is a 25 year old all star on a good contract coming off a 25-5-5 season. Trading Beal between now and next season’s trade deadline will net us the best return.

This is a good point. Tobias Harris was traded for far more than he is actually worth because the Clippers didn't go out and try and shop him out of desperation. They waited until a team really needed him.

That's what I'd do with Beal. I'd publicly state that we love and him and we're keeping him. I'd plan on keeping him. But I'm sure we'd get phone calls from other teams when they're desperate, and if they're desperate, I'd listen. Maybe we could get a king's ransom for him. But I wouldn't start burning up the phones proposing ways of giving Beal away. That's a sure way of getting 50 cents on the dollar.

Not sure what’s the right way. I just know he needs to be traded and we can’t wait a year, teams need to get two years or 1.5 years to pay full value. Not sure how to couch it or there than, “He’s our best player and we’ll deal him if we get offers commensurate with his value and we won’t if we don’t,” and then just wait it out until we see the likely the best value offered between now and the ‘20 deadline and deal him.

Worst case scenarios:
1. Keeping him and he leaves.
2. Keeping him and panic dealing him at the ‘21 deadline.

[Ruzious]

I mean, Clippers got 2 firsts and a young prospect in return for Tobias Harris - a non all star on an expiring deal whose older then Beal. Beal is a 25 year old all star on a good contract coming off a 25-5-5 season. Trading Beal between now and next season’s trade deadline will net us the best return.

This is a good point. Tobias Harris was traded for far more than he is actually worth because the Clippers didn't go out and try and shop him out of desperation. They waited until a team really needed him.

That's what I'd do with Beal. I'd publicly state that we love and him and we're keeping him. I'd plan on keeping him. But I'm sure we'd get phone calls from other teams when they're desperate, and if they're desperate, I'd listen. Maybe we could get a king's ransom for him. But I wouldn't start burning up the phones proposing ways of giving Beal away. That's a sure way of getting 50 cents on the dollar.

Not sure what’s the right way. I just know he needs to be traded and we can’t wait a year, teams need to get two years or 1.5 years to pay full value. Not sure how to couch it or there than, “He’s our best player and we’ll deal him if we get offers commensurate with his value and we won’t if we don’t,” and then just wait it out until we see the likely the best value offered between now and the ‘20 deadline and deal him.

Worst case scenarios:
1. Keeping him and he leaves.
2. Keeping him and panic dealing him at the ‘21 deadline.

Right, and just because Philly made a foolish trade for Harris doesn't automatically mean another team will make that kind of mistake. I mean... it goes without saying the Wiz shouldn't jump at a bad offer, but that doesn't mean you wait till the last second. If you get a good offer that makes sense, go for it.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Answer the question. Where to do you see the Wiz franchise going if they keep Beal?

I won't be answering anything before you've address the question I posed to you concerning Garland, or your suggestion that Beal is a hindrance to the progress of the team.

Garland has Lillard-like potential - though he's not quite the explosive finisher. He's a phenominal ball-handler with deep 3 point range and appears to have pretty good shot selection. But he was only part of the trade you bashed. We would also get the 10th pick in last year's draft - Mikal Bridges - an excellent defensive athletic swingman with solid offensive potential who had a rough rookie season but still shot 43.5% from the field. TJ Warren isn't Bradley Beal, but he's a very useful player - a high scorer with the same eFG as Beal and the same age. He shot 42.8% from 3 last season. He also contributed with steals and blocks - didn't rebound well for a 3 though. And... we'd be getting a high pick in next year's draft from Phoenix - to go along with ours - since we'll be in rebuild mode - which makes sense because we have no chance at competing for anything... next season - with or without Beal. With Beal, our goal would continue to be to try (most likely failing) to get the 8th playoff spot in the East.

Sorry man, I just think Beal is part of the the Wizards' solution, not part of the problem.

It's kind of crazy IMO, to suggest that Beal's presence would cause the Wizards' org. to set a low bar for itself.

A team usually takes up the personality of its best player, and I think a front office has a similar effect on its coaches and players, and the expectations they set for themselves.

The huge organizational problem, that was Ernie Grunfeld, is finally gone.

With an outgoing, competent, and successful GM, I believe newer and higher expectations are set; Beal nor Wall, have ever had real high-quality players to play alongside them, just mostly players that they had to settle on, cross your fingers on, and hope would blossom into heavy contributors. This rarely happened, because Grunfeld consistently failed to bring in players that complemented the next.

Now is the time you start building around Beal, not remove him from the picture.

Wizards need to hit on this year's top draft pick (should have two, but you know, Ernie Grunfeld), cut ties with guys on the roster who don't impact the bottom line, and bring in quality vets to play alongside Beal (ex. Darren Collison at PG paired w/Beal); I'm cool with Garland being brought in, but not at the expense of Bradley Beal, as part of a packaged deal.

I could see Beal playing on a Wizards team that reached the EC Finals, just not with the likes of Sam Dekker, Ian Mahinmi, 10-day contract players, and Two-Way G-Leaguers, making up his supporting cast.


One last thank you to Ernie Grunfeld, for season after season, of a whole lotta nothing.

[Ruzious]

I won't be answering anything before you've address the question I posed to you concerning Garland, or your suggestion that Beal is a hindrance to the progress of the team.

Garland has Lillard-like potential - though he's not quite the explosive finisher. He's a phenominal ball-handler with deep 3 point range and appears to have pretty good shot selection. But he was only part of the trade you bashed. We would also get the 10th pick in last year's draft - Mikal Bridges - an excellent defensive athletic swingman with solid offensive potential who had a rough rookie season but still shot 43.5% from the field. TJ Warren isn't Bradley Beal, but he's a very useful player - a high scorer with the same eFG as Beal and the same age. He shot 42.8% from 3 last season. He also contributed with steals and blocks - didn't rebound well for a 3 though. And... we'd be getting a high pick in next year's draft from Phoenix - to go along with ours - since we'll be in rebuild mode - which makes sense because we have no chance at competing for anything... next season - with or without Beal. With Beal, our goal would continue to be to try (most likely failing) to get the 8th playoff spot in the East.

Sorry man, I just think Beal is part of the the Wizards' solution, not part of the problem.

It's kind of crazy IMO, to suggest that Beal's presence would cause the Wizards' org. to set a low bar for itself.

A team usually takes up the personality of its best player, and I think a front office has a similar effect on its coaches and players, and the expectations they set for themselves.

The huge organizational problem, that was Ernie Grunfeld, is finally gone.

With an outgoing, competent, and successful GM, I believe newer and higher expectations are set; Beal nor Wall, have ever had real high-quality players to play alongside them, just mostly players that they had to settle on, cross your fingers on, and hoped would blossom into heavy contributors. This rarely happened, because Grunfeld consistently failed to bring in players that complemented the next.

Now is the time you start building around Beal, not remove him from the picture.

Wizards need to hit on this year's top draft pick (should have two, but you know, Ernie Grunfeld), cut ties with guys on the roster who don't impact the bottom line, and bring in quality vets to play alongside Beal (ex. Darren Collison at PG paired w/Beal); I'm cool with Garland being brought in, but not at the expense of Bradley Beal, as part of a packaged deal.

I could see Beal playing on a Wizards team that reached the EC Finals, just not with the likes of Sam Dekker, Ian Mahinmi, 10-day contract players, and Two-Way G-Leaguers, making up his support cast.


One last thank you to Ernie Grunfeld, for season after season, of a whole lotta nothing.

Buiding with what around Beal? And Beal was asked whether or not he'd even accept a super-max extension from the Wizard, and he wouldn't even commit to that. There's no reason to believe he's going to stay. Why would he - the team has so few assets and still has very little cap room. They're not going to be attracting any major free agents. Even the one player you mentioned - Collison - is just an okay player and might not even be affordable for the Wiz. They have next to zero assets to develop this team around Beal It makes sense to trade him to get a bunch of assets that can develop over time. It's called rebuilding. Your way is to attempt to achieve mediocrity. I mean... Collisons and Arizas and Greens and Parkers might be useful role-playing backups for good teams, but they're just patches for a team like the Wiz trying to reach .500. Honestly, you've given no real reason to show how you could see Beal playing on a Wizards team that reached the EC Final.

[Ruzious]

Ouch, Clarke's measurements... not good. If those measurements are true, he must have in incredible verticle leap coming up.

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[Rafael122]

Ouch, Clarke's measurements... not good. If those measurements are true, he must have in incredible verticle leap coming up.

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Culver in the same boat.

[The Consiglieri]

Bringing up Tobias Harris in fact disproves your own point. Clippers waited until the deadline before his free agency to trade him and they still got a massive haul. This was the return for a 4 month rental of Harris:

Landry Shamet (a very good SG prospect)
Wilson Chandler
Mike Muscala
Philadelphia’s own protected 2020 first-round pick
Miami Heat’s unprotected 2021 first-round pick
Detroit Pistons’ 2021 and 2023 second-round picks

Yet you are saying that the Wizards should panic-trade their All-NBA guard when he still has 2 full seasons before FA? Really??

Not to mention the optics on the business-side. How do you trade a 25yo homegrown star who has been vocal about wanting to stay, and then sell your fanbase on watching a season without Wall or Beal, the longtime beloved pillars of the franchise? And without any guarantee of being rewarded with a high draft pick down the line.

The NBA is a business and that is not how businesses operate. Trading Bradley Beal today for anything less than a godfather offer would be irresponsible management.

So you would be happy with Landry Shamet as the best piece in a package for Beal???

If so, then what's the point in even having this discussion?

And what a player says publicly means absolutely nothing. It never has, never will. It only matters what they are saying behind closed doors.

It was known among insiders, J. Michael, former CSN beat reporter said it on twitter, Beal has wanted out for a long time. He had asked for a trade previously! He saying the right things now, but in January, when your 10 games under .500, old feelings rise back to the top!

Beal is much more desired than Harris, they would be in position to demand a better prospect than Shamet for him. Or more future picks instead. The point is that there should be no rush or panic to trade him now.


Whatever J Michael has said in the past is irrelevant today. He hasn’t been around the team in years, and even when he was here the only team source he has was Gortat. Regardless of what anyone knows or thinks they know, the facts are that what Beal said behind closed doors is the same thing he’s been saying publicly - that he wants to stay. He had a CLOSED DOOR meeting with Ted Leonsis and said exactly that. He’s met with Tommy Sheppard and said exactly that.

This is a homegrown star player in Beal who has communicated to the Wizards management that he values loyalty, is connected to city of DC and is committed to the franchise long term. Trading him for a draft pick is not on the table, I don’t understand how this is difficult to see.

If he changes his mind in January then sure, at that point you adjust your plans. They could still get a considerable return for Beal at the deadline, or next offseason, or even the 2020 deadline.

The team is screwed for nearly the next half decade. The only piece of high value is Beal. Is Beal okay w/wasting a second and third year of his prime finishing 26th or worse in back to back seasons? It’s possible, but highly unlikely. Regardless it doesn’t matter. This team will accomplish NOTHING with the asset that is Beals prime. It can accomplish something for the 2021 and beyond era by trading two years of his prime for potential building blocks while also increasing the odds that we get reasonable luck in the lottery instead of decreasing it. This is a no brainer. I’ve never understood why people see any value in winning 25-29 games instead of 16-20. There is zero value in it. Add in building block pieces and it’s automatic that we change and should trade him.

[payitforward]

no offense but this board has gone to poo poo land. I blame PIF even though hes done nothing wrong but hes openly jewish so hes an easy target. no offense bro. but this board in its heyday would be storming NBA headquarters, our dicks fully erect demanding a better lottery pick. What the **** ninjas? CCJ have you even responded? Or are you rubbing moisturizer cream into Kristen Bell's back? I'm done with this board. Adios, arriederci, and shabat shalom PIF. This is my last poast until the bullez win 50 games and im not kidding. Adios ninjas.

Shabat Shalom, AFM; and may the Lord cause his countenance to shine upon you.

In which case, better put on some sun screen!

If you really leave us, which I hope you don't, try to stay out of trouble, ok?

[Ruzious]

no offense but this board has gone to poo poo land. I blame PIF even though hes done nothing wrong but hes openly jewish so hes an easy target. no offense bro. but this board in its heyday would be storming NBA headquarters, our dicks fully erect demanding a better lottery pick. What the **** ninjas? CCJ have you even responded? Or are you rubbing moisturizer cream into Kristen Bell's back? I'm done with this board. Adios, arriederci, and shabat shalom PIF. This is my last poast until the bullez win 50 games and im not kidding. Adios ninjas.

Shabat Shalom, AFM; and may the Lord cause his countenance to shine upon you.

In which case, better put on some sun screen!

If you really leave us, which I hope you don't, try to stay out of trouble, ok?

In real life, AFM is probably Devin Robinson. You can tell he tried to look like Kelly Oubre but couldn't pull off the hair - figuratively and literally. As much as he might try, AFM will never be Kelly Oubre.

[payitforward]

I mean, Clippers got 2 firsts and a young prospect in return for Tobias Harris - a non all star on an expiring deal whose older then Beal. Beal is a 25 year old all star on a good contract coming off a 25-5-5 season. Trading Beal between now and next season’s trade deadline will net us the best return.

This is a good point. Tobias Harris was traded for far more than he is actually worth because the Clippers didn't go out and try and shop him out of desperation. They waited until a team really needed him.

That's what I'd do with Beal. I'd publicly state that we love and him and we're keeping him. I'd plan on keeping him. But I'm sure we'd get phone calls from other teams when they're desperate, and if they're desperate, I'd listen. Maybe we could get a king's ransom for him. But I wouldn't start burning up the phones proposing ways of giving Beal away. That's a sure way of getting 50 cents on the dollar.

They waited until a team really overpaid for him, iow. A novice GM who had the very misguided idea that Harris put them in a position to win the East.

Hard to be sure that'll happen, but I still think you are right. We are facing a long, long rebuild through lean years. TBH, I feel for who ever is our next GM.

[Illuminaire]

There are only four ways to significantly improve the talent base of the team:

• Get super, duper lucky with a late 2nd round pick or bargain basement free agent. And given how Ernie traded all the 2nd round picks away...
• Win a trade, bigly. It takes assets to make said trade, and the Wiz are a bit short on assets...
• Open up cap space, then court high caliber free agents with reasonable contracts. Signing impact free agents without paying out the ears does not happen often, though. This also requires a lot of luck... and cap space the Wizards do not have.
• Get a little lucky with a lottery pick.

Of those three options, #3 is by far the most probable to succeed. I say probable, because no route is a sure thing. Even signing a superstar to a great deal is not a sure path to long term success - see Arenas' knee catastrophe.

Still, this is a pretty clear cut situation. #1 is way too much of a Hail Mary. The odds are beyond bad. #2 generally requires having overvalued assets to trade away. #3 is only possible if the Wiz had cap space, so they'd have to expend talent just to create the chance to add talent.

If you want the best odds of having a truly competitive team with great players, you stack your chances at lottery picks. That's how you add talent at the lowest possible cost in team resources. You can think of it as spending wins to gain talent. The nice part about that is it's a lot easier to add wins back, once you have the talent.

The great difficulty with keeping a mid-level star like Beal around is that he makes the team just good enough to hurts the odds of adding other stars. That's not fated, of course - just look at the Pelicans this year. But you don't play poker hoping every hand is a straight, and you can't run an NBA team hoping for Alvin Gentry's Lucky Tie to save the day. There are two primary scenarios going forward for the Wizards. Looking at the next two seasons...

Keep Beal
OK, you're locked in on loyalty. Beal becomes the centerpiece of the team for at least two years.
Cap Situation: Abysmal. If you want to keep him, you have to pay the supermax. Wall's dead contract and Beal's new one eat up 70% of your space.
Wins: 35-45, depending how the ball bounces. If you're very lucky, you're a first round out as an 8th seed in the playoffs.
Draft Picks: (2) Most likely between 7-12. Very small chance at adding franchise talent.
Future Ceiling: Hobbit hole, post scouring. This route treads water for two years, then hopes to run everything back with an older Wall coming off a debilitating injury.

Trade Beal
So if the right trade comes along, you pull the trigger. We'll call the "right" trade a minimum of 2 picks and one blue chip young player.
Cap Situation: Painful, but there's hope. Rookies won't have their extensions kick in until the team is almost out of Wall's albatross contract. This is important, because it provides a narrow window to add free agent talent around a young core, before capping out again.
Wins: 20-33
Draft Picks: (2) picks in the 1-7 range, and (2) more in the 6-18 range. Not only is the quantity doubled, but the quality is greatly increased. There is a very reasonable
Future Ceiling Somewhere between the Magic and the Sixers - both of which had better seasons than the Wizards.

One of these choices makes sense. The other is what Grunfeld would do.

Don't be Grunfeld. NEVER be a Grunfeld.

[payitforward]

Not even close. You could have least included Bridges. I would have still turned it down but it would have been semi respectable.

If Garland is there at 6, I'd consider Beal for 6, Bridges, and Phoenix' 2020 first (no more than a top 2 protection). Trade would have to be consumated after the draft to avoid Stepien rule. I'm assuming Phoenix has the cap space to absorb that deal - don't know if they do.

We do, but we would likely have to ship you TJ Warren to match salaries. I think that trade is pretty fair.

If we have to take Warren, would you include your R2 pick as well?

[payitforward]

...Honestly, if the Pelicans say no to the Lakers latest offer, and if Ingram's medicals check out, I would do Ingram/Ball/Kuzma/Hart/4th/Another 1st for Beal in a heart beat.

I think Kuzma is over-rated, meaning I bet you could find a 3d team to join this trade & maybe give you a mid-R1 pick for him -- say, the Celtics.

I like Ingram/Ball/#4 pick/#14 pick/R1 pick next year better than taking Kuzma.

[payitforward]

ESPN and Givony...

The Wizards likely are about to begin a long rebuilding process...

There you have the most important piece of information about this team. Every decision has to start from that premise.

[Eli Babak]

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I don't understand why some people want Bol, he's so skinny and will struggle a lot. Personally I think I want to gamble and pick Doumbouya assuming Garland & Hunter, maybe Hayes are gone. Not sure what to think about Clarke.

Edit: Okay, well, I read some stuff about Bol and sure there's some potential but I don't know. Luckily I'm not a scout or making big decisions.

[80sballboy]

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?s=21

[80sballboy]

Ouch, Clarke's measurements... not good. If those measurements are true, he must have in incredible verticle leap coming up.

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That's not a good sign but I also thought he was heavier. Romeo Langford has a longer wingspan at 6-11 but I'm guessing Clarke is much more athletic and explosive.

[nate33]

Ouch, Clarke's measurements... not good. If those measurements are true, he must have in incredible verticle leap coming up.

Read on Twitter

Yikes. A 6'8 wingspan? You can tank the standing reach but you can't tank the wingspan. Dude has alligator arms.

His stock just dropped precipitously.

I still like him, but now I'd be looking to trade down into the teens to get him.