Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE)

[Ruzious]

...Honestly, if the Pelicans say no to the Lakers latest offer, and if Ingram's medicals check out, I would do Ingram/Ball/Kuzma/Hart/4th/Another 1st for Beal in a heart beat.

I think Kuzma is over-rated, meaning I bet you could find a 3d team to join this trade & maybe give you a mid-R1 pick for him -- say, the Celtics.

I like Ingram/Ball/#4 pick/#14 pick/R1 pick next year better than taking Kuzma.

Yeah, unfortunately Kuzma's lack of a 3 ball - to go with his other faults - killed his value. I thought he'd be better.

[Ruzious]

Ouch, Clarke's measurements... not good. If those measurements are true, he must have in incredible verticle leap coming up.

Read on Twitter

Yikes. A 6'8 wingspan? You can tank the standing reach but you can't tank the wingspan. Dude has alligator arms.

His stock just dropped precipitously.

I still like him, but now I'd be looking to trade down into the teens to get him.

He's also very skinny for a PF and older than the other top prospects. Even if he sets a record in the vertical leap (which I think he might), he migh fall out of the lottery.

[DCZards]

Ninth pick. That sucks. I was convinced we were moving up to #4. Oh well. I’m fairly certain my pick—Garland or Hunter—will be be gone by 9. I’d seriously consider Clarke with that pick, although I’m still worried about his shooting, and I wouldn’t rule out Cam Reddish should he be available at 9.

I'm going to take a closer look at Langford, Doumbouya and some of the others that have been mentioned here at possible picks for the Zards.

PJ Washington is still my sleeper. But I don’t know if I’d take him with the 9th pick. But he’d definitely be a top target in a trade down scenario.

What I’d really like to see the Zards do is draft (or sign in free agency) a guard or wing with the ability to create for himself and teammates…someone who can take some of the playmaking load off of Beal.

[DCZards]

Yes, trade Beal if you can get a “king’s ransom” for him, as Nate says. That ransom would include a player younger than Beal who has all-star potential AND picks that might turn out to be at or near the top of the next couple of drafts.

But let's not trade BB for a bunch of possible lottery picks, especially when those picks could all turn out to be in the 8-10 range. That’s a very risky “rebuilding” project. The NBA is a star driven league where you need 2-3 all-stars to compete for a title. I'd hate to trade Beal to only end up waiting the lion’s share of the next decade to replace him with another all-NBA caliber player or two.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!”

Beal is a young, unselfish all-star who has a positive impact on his teammates and this franchise…both on and off the court. He may also be your best magnet for attracting a top free agent.

Beal, Bryant, Brown Jr., Sato, this year’s pick and next year’s lottery pick represent significant rebuilding blocks. And let’s not discount or dismiss Wall’s ability to contribute when he returns.

I agree with Illmatic12 that it’s a “panic” move to trade Beal now simply because you’re “scurred” about what’s going to happen a year or two down the road as it relates to BB's status as a Zard.

[tontoz]

I think it was probably a bad move for Zion to attend the lottery. Seems like a good guy but it was obviously hard for him to hide his disappointment.

[Illmatic12]

So you would be happy with Landry Shamet as the best piece in a package for Beal???

If so, then what's the point in even having this discussion?

And what a player says publicly means absolutely nothing. It never has, never will. It only matters what they are saying behind closed doors.

It was known among insiders, J. Michael, former CSN beat reporter said it on twitter, Beal has wanted out for a long time. He had asked for a trade previously! He saying the right things now, but in January, when your 10 games under .500, old feelings rise back to the top!

Beal is much more desired than Harris, they would be in position to demand a better prospect than Shamet for him. Or more future picks instead. The point is that there should be no rush or panic to trade him now.


Whatever J Michael has said in the past is irrelevant today. He hasn’t been around the team in years, and even when he was here the only team source he has was Gortat. Regardless of what anyone knows or thinks they know, the facts are that what Beal said behind closed doors is the same thing he’s been saying publicly - that he wants to stay. He had a CLOSED DOOR meeting with Ted Leonsis and said exactly that. He’s met with Tommy Sheppard and said exactly that.

This is a homegrown star player in Beal who has communicated to the Wizards management that he values loyalty, is connected to city of DC and is committed to the franchise long term. Trading him for a draft pick is not on the table, I don’t understand how this is difficult to see.

If he changes his mind in January then sure, at that point you adjust your plans. They could still get a considerable return for Beal at the deadline, or next offseason, or even the 2020 deadline.

The team is screwed for nearly the next half decade. The only piece of high value is Beal. Is Beal okay w/wasting a second and third year of his prime finishing 26th or worse in back to back seasons? It’s possible, but highly unlikely. Regardless it doesn’t matter. This team will accomplish NOTHING with the asset that is Beals prime. It can accomplish something for the 2021 and beyond era by trading two years of his prime for potential building blocks while also increasing the odds that we get reasonable luck in the lottery instead of decreasing it. This is a no brainer. I’ve never understood why people see any value in winning 25-29 games instead of 16-20. There is zero value in it. Add in building block pieces and it’s automatic that we change and should trade him.

We need to first start off by framing this discussion. Because I don’t believe everyone is accurately assessing the risk/reward of a Beal trade.

Question - Do you believe Beal is in his prime? And if so, how many prime years do you think he has left?

[Illmatic12]

Ouch, Clarke's measurements... not good. If those measurements are true, he must have in incredible verticle leap coming up.

Read on Twitter

Eww.. yea that’s a no for me dawg.

Idk what position you play this guy at the next level, he can’t shoot and can’t defend NBA 4s or 5s. I wouldn’t touch Clarke in the lottery.

[Rafael122]

I know Dat doesn't like him but these numbers are sick:

Read on Twitter

[80sballboy]

I know Dat doesn't like him but these numbers are sick:

Read on Twitter

Dude has a pretty good upside but you need to send him to the G-League for a year or two. The Lakers really liked him but at 11. In some ways, he's a bit like Oubre, who didn't play that much at Kansas. Little only averaged 18mpg at UNC.

[Illmatic12]

I know Dat doesn't like him but these numbers are sick:

Read on Twitter

I don't think Little is very good, but he's probably the upside play at #9 (imo) if Doumbouya isn't available.
The Athletic mocked him to us:

Little is an extremely polarizing player for NBA teams (there are a lot of those guys this year). Some teams really buy into his mix of athleticism, length and motor. He played a little bit heavy this season at North Carolina, and has slimmed down during the pre-draft process already. They believe there is real upside there to get a starter who can defend modern wings and forward. Additionally, teams can look back through his past and see legitimate shooting upside off the dribble. However, there’s downside here. His feel for the game has real holes. He struggled to adjust to playing with North Carolina’s defensive scheme this year. Offensively, he needs to keep ironing out his shooting efficiency.

Let’s take a wild stab here, given that the Wizards still don’t have a lead front office executive, and say that recent reporting from The Athletic’s Fred Katz and Shams Charania is right, and Oklahoma City Thunder vice president of basketball operations Troy Weaver is very much in the mix for the Wizards’ top job. That Oklahoma City front office values athleticism, length, and character in players above all else. Obviously, Little ticks all of those boxes.

[Ruzious]

Yes, trade Beal if you can get a “king’s ransom” for him, as Nate says. That ransom would include a player younger than Beal who has all-star potential AND picks that might turn out to be at or near the top of the next couple of drafts.

But let's not trade BB for a bunch of possible lottery picks, especially when those picks could all turn out to be in the 8-10 range. That’s a very risky “rebuilding” project. The NBA is a star driven league where you need 2-3 all-stars to compete for a title. I'd hate to trade Beal to only end up waiting the lion’s share of the next decade to replace him with another all-NBA caliber player or two.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!”

Beal is a young, unselfish all-star who has a positive impact on his teammates and this franchise…both on and off the court. He may also be your best magnet for attracting a top free agent.

Beal, Bryant, Brown Jr., Sato, this year’s pick and next year’s lottery pick represent significant rebuilding blocks. And let’s not discount or dismiss Wall’s ability to contribute when he returns.

I agree with Illmatic12 that it’s a “panic” move to trade Beal now simply because you’re “scurred” about what’s going to happen a year or two down the road as it relates to BB's status as a Zard.

Aside from Beal, Bryant is the only significant building block, and we don't know if he and Sato are staying. Sato's a nice 28 year old role player, and Brown's a nice prospect that needs to show he can shoot consistently. I think it's premature to assume he'll be a quality starter though it's certainly possible. That group ain't gonna cut it... to say the least.

We need a LOT more talent, and it's silly at this point to think Washington is going to attract major free agents. They won't be able to this offseason because of their cap situation, and while it's possible in the future, Wall and Beal's contracts will be hindrances.

Again, nobody... not one single person... has suggested rushing into a bad trade, but if a good trade opportunity comes up soon, and they take it... it shouldn't automatically be labelled as a panic move. Instead, it should be evalauted objectively.

[payitforward]

...Honestly, if the Pelicans say no to the Lakers latest offer, and if Ingram's medicals check out, I would do Ingram/Ball/Kuzma/Hart/4th/Another 1st for Beal in a heart beat.

I think Kuzma is over-rated, meaning I bet you could find a 3d team to join this trade & maybe give you a mid-R1 pick for him -- say, the Celtics.

I like Ingram/Ball/#4 pick/#14 pick/R1 pick next year better than taking Kuzma.

Yeah, unfortunately Kuzma's lack of a 3 ball - to go with his other faults - killed his value. I thought he'd be better.

Sssshhh... I'm trying to pass him off to a 3d team, Ruz.

[80sballboy]

Yes, trade Beal if you can get a “king’s ransom” for him, as Nate says. That ransom would include a player younger than Beal who has all-star potential AND picks that might turn out to be at or near the top of the next couple of drafts.

But let's not trade BB for a bunch of possible lottery picks, especially when those picks could all turn out to be in the 8-10 range. That’s a very risky “rebuilding” project. The NBA is a star driven league where you need 2-3 all-stars to compete for a title. I'd hate to trade Beal to only end up waiting the lion’s share of the next decade to replace him with another all-NBA caliber player or two.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!”

Beal is a young, unselfish all-star who has a positive impact on his teammates and this franchise…both on and off the court. He may also be your best magnet for attracting a top free agent.

Beal, Bryant, Brown Jr., Sato, this year’s pick and next year’s lottery pick represent significant rebuilding blocks. And let’s not discount or dismiss Wall’s ability to contribute when he returns.

I agree with Illmatic12 that it’s a “panic” move to trade Beal now simply because you’re “scurred” about what’s going to happen a year or two down the road as it relates to BB's status as a Zard.

Aside from Beal, Bryant is the only significant building block, and we don't know if he and Sato are staying. Sato's a nice 28 year old role player, and Brown's a nice prospect that needs to show he can shoot consistently. I think it's premature to assume he'll be a quality starter though it's certainly possible. That group ain't gonna cut it... to say the least.

We need a LOT more talent, and it's silly at this point to think Washington is going to attract major free agents. They won't be able to this offseason because of their cap situation, and while it's possible in the future, Wall and Beal's contracts will be hindrances.

Again, nobody... not one single person... has suggested rushing into a bad trade, but if a good trade opportunity comes up soon, and they take it... it shouldn't automatically be labelled as a panic move. Instead, it should be evalauted objectively.

100%. The new GM should be allowed to evaluate (hopefully not Tommy S.) the situation and look at the best possible deal. If they can't build for the future with quality young players/picks, then eff it. There's isn't a rush to trade him but there is a rush to consider it if somebody blows you away. But all scenarios should be looked at. The team is going nowhere with him next season and will be going nowhere if they have to supermax him along with Wall with very little cap room. He's not a guy you give $40M to. That's KD, Lillard, Curry, LBJ, Kawaii, Harden, maybe Klay, etc. Great guy off the court and TL loves him but are you trying to win titles or the PR game?

Hopefully, he doesn't get named to one of the All-NBA teams.

[Illmatic12]

Yes, trade Beal if you can get a “king’s ransom” for him, as Nate says. That ransom would include a player younger than Beal who has all-star potential AND picks that might turn out to be at or near the top of the next couple of drafts.

But let's not trade BB for a bunch of possible lottery picks, especially when those picks could all turn out to be in the 8-10 range. That’s a very risky “rebuilding” project. The NBA is a star driven league where you need 2-3 all-stars to compete for a title. I'd hate to trade Beal to only end up waiting the lion’s share of the next decade to replace him with another all-NBA caliber player or two.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!”

Beal is a young, unselfish all-star who has a positive impact on his teammates and this franchise…both on and off the court. He may also be your best magnet for attracting a top free agent.

Beal, Bryant, Brown Jr., Sato, this year’s pick and next year’s lottery pick represent significant rebuilding blocks. And let’s not discount or dismiss Wall’s ability to contribute when he returns.

I agree with Illmatic12 that it’s a “panic” move to trade Beal now simply because you’re “scurred” about what’s going to happen a year or two down the road as it relates to BB's status as a Zard.

Aside from Beal, Bryant is the only significant building block, and we don't know if he and Sato are staying. Sato's a nice 28 year old role player, and Brown's a nice prospect that needs to show he can shoot consistently. I think it's premature to assume he'll be a quality starter though it's certainly possible. That group ain't gonna cut it... to say the least.

We need a LOT more talent, and it's silly at this point to think Washington is going to attract major free agents. They won't be able to this offseason because of their cap situation, and while it's possible in the future, Wall and Beal's contracts will be hindrances.

Again, nobody... not one single person... has suggested rushing into a bad trade, but if a good trade opportunity comes up soon, and they take it... it shouldn't automatically be labelled as a panic move. Instead, it should be evalauted objectively.

Let me get this straight. We need a lot more talent.. so let's give away our most talented player? Trading Beal subtracts star talent from the roster. Whoever we get in return needs to have upside to reach his level or better.

That is the issue with numerous trades people are suggesting in this thread - they aren't trades to improve the team's talent level, they are trades intended to get off salary and tank. So you want to trade Beal for unknown assets (either future draft picks or unproven prospects) and make the team worse so we can play the draft lottery? Well that is a bad move unless we can hedge against the significant risk that those draft picks don't pan out.

And if we aren't going to attract major free agents, what difference does it make if we keep Beal or not? If we trade Beal will that all of a sudden make us a bigger free agent destination? Will we go out and sign someone better than Beal with that money?

If we're going to trade a 25yo All-NBA SG an entire 2 years before his free agency, the return needs to be evaluated accordingly and people are failing to do that.

[youngWizzy]

It appears Clarke's wingspan was way shorter than I had thought.

Read on Twitter

[The Consiglieri]

Beal is much more desired than Harris, they would be in position to demand a better prospect than Shamet for him. Or more future picks instead. The point is that there should be no rush or panic to trade him now.


Whatever J Michael has said in the past is irrelevant today. He hasn’t been around the team in years, and even when he was here the only team source he has was Gortat. Regardless of what anyone knows or thinks they know, the facts are that what Beal said behind closed doors is the same thing he’s been saying publicly - that he wants to stay. He had a CLOSED DOOR meeting with Ted Leonsis and said exactly that. He’s met with Tommy Sheppard and said exactly that.

This is a homegrown star player in Beal who has communicated to the Wizards management that he values loyalty, is connected to city of DC and is committed to the franchise long term. Trading him for a draft pick is not on the table, I don’t understand how this is difficult to see.

If he changes his mind in January then sure, at that point you adjust your plans. They could still get a considerable return for Beal at the deadline, or next offseason, or even the 2020 deadline.

The team is screwed for nearly the next half decade. The only piece of high value is Beal. Is Beal okay w/wasting a second and third year of his prime finishing 26th or worse in back to back seasons? It’s possible, but highly unlikely. Regardless it doesn’t matter. This team will accomplish NOTHING with the asset that is Beals prime. It can accomplish something for the 2021 and beyond era by trading two years of his prime for potential building blocks while also increasing the odds that we get reasonable luck in the lottery instead of decreasing it. This is a no brainer. I’ve never understood why people see any value in winning 25-29 games instead of 16-20. There is zero value in it. Add in building block pieces and it’s automatic that we change and should trade him.

We need to first start off by framing this discussion. Because I don’t believe everyone is accurately assessing the risk/reward of a Beal trade.

Question - Do you believe Beal is in his prime? And if so, how many prime years do you think he has left?

Yes, and based on the evidence I’ve seen, player primes typically exist between age 26-29, though there is some evidence that Guards reach peak performance between 28-32 though I tend to be less trusting of this because it doesn’t account for differentiation between early entrants like Beal and later entrants like Kemba Walker. I would imagine joining the league at 19 versus 21 can result in differing data on prime production/efficiency years. Depending upon which bit of info you buy, he’s got a low end of 4 prime years left barring injury and a high end of 7. Four of those years are a lost cause due to the Wall Extension if we kept him and he resigned. That’s an emphatic pass for me, and I loved the guy since day 1 (thankfully we didn’t have a chance at MKG who I really liked as a prospect, Had Beal as my #3 in that class and loved the value. Those days are gone though and we won’t be out from theaters Wall albatross deal until he’s entering his age 30 season.

[Ruzious]

Yes, trade Beal if you can get a “king’s ransom” for him, as Nate says. That ransom would include a player younger than Beal who has all-star potential AND picks that might turn out to be at or near the top of the next couple of drafts.

But let's not trade BB for a bunch of possible lottery picks, especially when those picks could all turn out to be in the 8-10 range. That’s a very risky “rebuilding” project. The NBA is a star driven league where you need 2-3 all-stars to compete for a title. I'd hate to trade Beal to only end up waiting the lion’s share of the next decade to replace him with another all-NBA caliber player or two.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!”

Beal is a young, unselfish all-star who has a positive impact on his teammates and this franchise…both on and off the court. He may also be your best magnet for attracting a top free agent.

Beal, Bryant, Brown Jr., Sato, this year’s pick and next year’s lottery pick represent significant rebuilding blocks. And let’s not discount or dismiss Wall’s ability to contribute when he returns.

I agree with Illmatic12 that it’s a “panic” move to trade Beal now simply because you’re “scurred” about what’s going to happen a year or two down the road as it relates to BB's status as a Zard.

Aside from Beal, Bryant is the only significant building block, and we don't know if he and Sato are staying. Sato's a nice 28 year old role player, and Brown's a nice prospect that needs to show he can shoot consistently. I think it's premature to assume he'll be a quality starter though it's certainly possible. That group ain't gonna cut it... to say the least.

We need a LOT more talent, and it's silly at this point to think Washington is going to attract major free agents. They won't be able to this offseason because of their cap situation, and while it's possible in the future, Wall and Beal's contracts will be hindrances.

Again, nobody... not one single person... has suggested rushing into a bad trade, but if a good trade opportunity comes up soon, and they take it... it shouldn't automatically be labelled as a panic move. Instead, it should be evalauted objectively.

Let me get this straight. We need a lot more talent.. so let's give away our most talented player? Trading Beal subtracts star talent from the roster. Whoever we get in return needs to have upside to reach his level or better.

That is the issue with numerous trades people are suggesting in this thread - they aren't trades to improve the team's talent level, they are trades intended to get off salary and tank. So you want to trade Beal for unknown assets (either future draft picks or unproven prospects) and make the team worse so we can play the draft lottery? Well that is a bad move unless we can hedge against the significant risk that those draft picks don't pan out.

And if we aren't going to attract major free agents, what difference does it make if we keep Beal or not? If we trade Beal will that all of a sudden make us a bigger free agent destination? Will we go out and sign someone better than Beal with that money?

If we're going to trade a 25yo All-NBA SG an entire 2 years before his free agency, the return needs to be evaluated accordingly and people are failing to do that.

Seriously, why is this hard to understand? We need to rebuild. In a trade of Beal, we would be looking to get multiple pieces that would develop over time - with the anticipation that those assets and the higher draft picks we get in the meantime will be significantly better than what we have now.

[Gig18]

We need to see what kind of GM we get before we start yelling to tear it down to the studs. Whoever it is may have different ideas about how to build a team.

[Shoe]

I'd rather trade for an unknown 2020 lottery pick than the #4 pick in this draft. Let me roll the dice on getting James Wiseman, Anthony Edwards, RJ Hampton, Khalil Whitney, Cole Anthony. All great 18 year old athletes, unlike 21 year old Hunter or Culver.

[Illmatic12]

The team is screwed for nearly the next half decade. The only piece of high value is Beal. Is Beal okay w/wasting a second and third year of his prime finishing 26th or worse in back to back seasons? It’s possible, but highly unlikely. Regardless it doesn’t matter. This team will accomplish NOTHING with the asset that is Beals prime. It can accomplish something for the 2021 and beyond era by trading two years of his prime for potential building blocks while also increasing the odds that we get reasonable luck in the lottery instead of decreasing it. This is a no brainer. I’ve never understood why people see any value in winning 25-29 games instead of 16-20. There is zero value in it. Add in building block pieces and it’s automatic that we change and should trade him.

We need to first start off by framing this discussion. Because I don’t believe everyone is accurately assessing the risk/reward of a Beal trade.

Question - Do you believe Beal is in his prime? And if so, how many prime years do you think he has left?

Yes, and based on the evidence I’ve seen, player primes typically exist between age 26-29, though there is some evidence that Guards reach peak performance between 28-32 though I tend to be less trusting of this because it doesn’t account for differentiation between early entrants like Beal and later entrants like Kemba Walker. I would imagine joining the league at 19 versus 21 can result in differing data on prime production/efficiency years. Depending upon which bit of info you buy, he’s got a low end of 4 prime years left barring injury and a high end of 7. Four of those years are a lost cause due to the Wall Extension if we kept him and he resigned. That’s an emphatic pass for me, and I loved the guy since day 1 (thankfully we didn’t have a chance at MKG who I really liked as a prospect, Had Beal as my #3 in that class and loved the value. Those days are gone though and we won’t be out from theaters Wall albatross deal until he’s entering his age 30 season.

Hmm.. I would like to see that evidence, because it sounds pretty outdated with the modern athlete. Players often peak around 27-29 but their prime years typically last longer. There are MANY historical examples of this, especially with skilled guards - Steve Nash, Ray Allen, Stephen Curry (currently 31yo), Reggie Miller, Sam Cassell, Gary Payton all had great longevity into their early/mid 30s. Ray Allen who is commonly compared to Beal, had his peak season at age 31 and his prime extended another 2-3 years beyond that.

My point here is that I don't agree with the assertion that Beal's prime will be over when Wall's contract is off the books in 4 years. In 2023, Brad will be the same age James Harden is now, who just had his peak season . Given his conditioning level, diet, work ethic and his style of play (which is largely based around skill and shooting) I find it probable that 4 years from now Beal will still be producing at an elite level. And I reckon it is highly improbable that Washington will be able to acquire a superior star player to Beal within that 4 year time frame.

The way I see it, the only actual reason to trade Bradley Beal and rebuild is IF he says he doesn't want to be a part of the Wizards moving forward. If he's willing to commit longterm then I would lock him up on an extension through 2025 because he has more than half of his career left to go, and we won't easily be able to replace his talent level , clubhouse leadership, intangibles .. not to mention the sentimental value he would hold for a historically tortured fanbase. Plus he would still have trade value on a longterm deal, if we chose to go that route.

In the summer of 2023 when Wall's money is off the books, the Wizards would have a prime 30yo Bradley Beal (who would be a 4-5x All-Star and the greatest SG in franchise history by that point in time) + max capspace (possibly even enough for two slots) + at least 4 developing young players from past 4 drafts . As a fan who just wants to see some light at the end of the tunnel, I'll take that over most alternatives. Call me a pessimist but I'm not convinced in the slightest that we could trade Beal and expect to end up in a better position 4 years from now.