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What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic?

Moderators: UCFJayBird, UCF, ChosenSavior, Knightro, SOUL, Howard Mass, Def Swami

I wouldn't pay Vuc anything more than $ ___ Million per year on his next 4 year contract.

$30M
3
4%
$29M
0
No votes
$28M
1
1%
$27M
4
6%
$26M
1
1%
$25M
18
25%
$24M
10
14%
$23M
5
7%
$22M
11
15%
$21M
19
26%
 
Total votes: 72

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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#161 » by pepe1991 » Thu May 16, 2019 7:14 am

On oPP poster made nice fanpost how Magic decision on Ross and Vučević really does not impact cap space and future all that much

I'll put test in spoiler so you can ignore this if you are not interested in reading

Spoiler:
My goal here is to push the "jump" season back a year, and instead look for incremental improvements and setting up cap room for 2020 for what is likely to be a decent FA class. Right now it doesn’t look like a good FA year…but let’s not forget that a HUGE load of FAs are available this season, and while many teams have money, there’s clearly not enough money to go around for that many players. If even a few "big name" FAs move teams (Walker, KD, Thompson, Kwahi, Bulter, Harris, Middleton, Brogdon, Russell, etc) then that’s going to eat up a huge chunk of the league’s available cap space. There are going to be a lot of NBA-quality players available on the secondary market, and those guys aren’t going to want to sign long-term deals at lower rates. Just like in 2018, I imagine there will be more than a handful of guys who sign 1-year deals and look for a potential payday in 2020, when the FA pool isn’t stacked with several Franchise-level players to gobble up the majority of the available FA dollars.

My 2019 Magic off-season will then consist with maintaining the status quo, nabbing some cheap help on the secondary market, and taking my risks on late draft picks.

First up, I’m re-signing both Ross and Vucevic. I look at 2020 and see Mozgov and Fournier’s likely PO opt-out as freeing up nearly $34 million, so I attempt to get Ross & Vucevic on board for around that amount total. It will likely be a little higher, but I don’t think by much. Ross is currently making $10.5M, but as a firm bench-player, he likely won’t get starter-money. I’m going to peg bringing him back on a 3-yr, $42M deal ($14M per year). I think it might be possible to get him for less, but I’m being conservative here. I’d consider a 4th year that was either a Team Option or Non-Guaranteed money. Next, I’m giving Vucevic a 4-year, $90M deal ($24M, $23M, $22M, $21M) with the final year being a Player Option. That totals $38M added to the cap sheet between the two. Yes, this puts the Magic into the luxury tax. With Mozgov’s dead contract that’s just gonna happen. The DeVos family can afford it.

Again, looking to the 2020 off-season, the Magic would only have at $100M on the books (before cap-holds). That’s ignoring if Fournier opts out (down to $83M), and if Fultz hasn’t shown anything they can pass on his QO and his $12M comes off, too (down to $71M); and that’s with the 2020 salary cap expected to be around $118M ($47M in cap room) and luxury tax around $143M. So, Ross and Vucevic’s new deals won’t hinder the Magic too much next off-season. Augustin would have a cap-hold, but obviously at 32 he would be someone worth letting go of to make cap room for a big name player (or, hopefully, he signs a "final" long-term deal for cheap to stay).

But enough about 2020. Back to 2019’s off-season.

Obviously, I’m going to exercise the option on Iwundu for next year. Birch I’d like to keep around, but if he gets a decent offer somewhere you let him go and sign some other 3rd string Center on a min deal. There will be lots of those out there. They may not be as good as Birch, but Bamba will be getting the backup role anyways, if only to verify whether he’s worth long-term investment. The list has names like Koufos, Chandler, McGee, Noah, Monroe, etc. Same goes for a backup PG. I’d look for someone better than Briscoe, and guys like Beverly, McConnell, Lin, Ish Smith, or even Rondo should be fine since the goal is for Fultz to play as much as possible. Keep in mind, both the FA signing for PG and Cn here know there’s a realistic chance that they could end up playing real minutes, due to the uncertainty of Fultz/Bamba, so it’s not just a typical 3rd string gig. Keep Briscoe on a 2-way deal in case of injuries.

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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#162 » by zaymon » Thu May 16, 2019 8:36 am

The Magic were clearly tanking hard. We didnt have lucky lotteries but that is for other discussion. Dallas in two years got number 5 and number 9 were they tanking ? We tanked in awful years but we clearly were tanking.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#163 » by ezzzp » Thu May 16, 2019 9:01 am

Skin wrote:
Spoiler:
ezzzp wrote:
Skin wrote: I'm sure I'm pretty clear and transparent in what I say... others seem to get it... but you have a creative way of dissecting it.

I never said we didn't ever tank.
I never said we didn't ever tank.
I never said we didn't ever tank.
I never said we didn't ever tank.
I've said it repetitively... that "we didn't tank hard enough".
We didn't tank hard enough.
We didn't tank hard enough.
We didn't tank hard enough.
We didn't tank hard enough.
Is that clear? Jeez.


My reply was to your statement that the Magic NEVER tanked hard enough the entire time. These are your words on post #142 which is what I replied to:

"We've NEVER aimed to be at the bottom. If anything, we've always resisted"

But the Magic ABSOLUTELY tanked hard in 12-13, 13-14 and 14-15. Those rosters were absolutely constructed to tank hard for #1 lottery odds. Only way to make them worse was to intentionally injure one or more of the young core Oladipo, Harris, Vucevic etc. Now how about you stop throwing tantrums like a whiny little boy.

Skin wrote:I said it losing Vuc and Ross isn't a total loss of assets because cap space is an asset.


Cap space isn't an asset to a small market team that just lost its top 2 players...especially a team that has been rebuilding for prior 7 years. Plus as reported by Bobby Marks, there are a ton of team in $17m cap room range this summer, making it even less likely that FA's go to a more than likely lottery situation.

Skin wrote:We may or may not go back into the lottery... it depends how the offseason is executed. There are too many variables to predict.


Lmao...too many variables to tell when its convenient...but somehow you are certain that Vucevic is going to get massive contract.

Skin wrote:Competitive context means SOMETHING to every player, but it does not mean A LOT to every player. Obviously helped Aaron Gordon A LOT more than Melvin Frazier.


You know that how? You don't know those players and you certainly have know idea how much it helped each of them. But GM's do, and the ones in the Magic front office (the ones that have constructed contenders) thought it was important for EVERYONE on team to experience the playoffs. They've said it numerous times.

Skin wrote:IF we resign Vuc, I think Bamba can overseat him sometime in his 3rd year. Vuc normally misses a lot of games due to injury, so I assume once he hits the IR, Bamba will have a chance to shine and not relinquish his starting spot. OR it will become apparent that Bamba is simply superior and Vuc will be traded at the deadline (in a really bad deal for us because no team wants an older Center on a big time contract who doesn't play D and can't win his match ups in the playoffs). If no trade can be made, Vuc will be stretched in the offseason and we will take the cap hit.


Well Bamba couldn't handle half a season of bench minutes vs smaller/lesser opponents without breaking down. He has rail thin ankles and super skinny legs...so if anyone is likely to be hurt its him. Vucevic has been pretty healthy most of his career, he's built solid.

Unless you can see the future, then you have NO CLUE as to what Vucevic will get in a trade. Plus in 3d season Vucevic will be 31, and his game will age well. Gasol is 34, Horford 33, Lopez is 32, etc. Stop talking about a subject you clearly don't know anything about.

Skin wrote:Now answer me back if you are a man.


Tough talk while cowering behind a keyboard. SMH

This post is chalk full of false statements, you're spinning make up stuff and you are too scared to answer my question. I'll leave you alone to recover your senses.


Lmao I don’t need to spin anything - your tantrums aren’t making your past comments disappear.

...and lmao at more tough guy talk while hiding behind keyboard :lol:
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#164 » by Bensational » Thu May 16, 2019 9:22 am

I think we stopped actively tanking once we brought Skiles on. From that point, it was clear the franchise was trying to put something competitive on the court, but it just looked terrible. Then, this year, those same pieces under a new coach look much more competent. It begs the question of, when does a tanking team suddenly become a playoff team? For us, that question was answered in the 2nd half of this season.

Side note: The success of this season should serve as proof of successful tanking. We already assembled Vuc, Gordon, Fournier, Isaac, Bamba, Fultz, DJ, etc through a tanking path, and that team took us to the playoffs.

So we all know first hand that tanking can get you back to the playoffs. And if we'd managed assets better, we could still have Oladipo, Harris, Sabonis and Payton still on the team. Wow, how close were we to having something really good?

All that talent, acquired via tanking. You hit the right one at the right time, and you're Indiana enjoying Oladipo's success, or Philly watching Harris tear it up. Or Orlando, watching Vuc become and all-star.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#165 » by zaymon » Thu May 16, 2019 9:23 am

pepe1991 wrote:On oPP poster made nice fanpost how Magic decision on Ross and Vučević really does not impact cap space and future all that much

I'll put test in spoiler so you can ignore this if you are not interested in reading

Spoiler:
My goal here is to push the "jump" season back a year, and instead look for incremental improvements and setting up cap room for 2020 for what is likely to be a decent FA class. Right now it doesn’t look like a good FA year…but let’s not forget that a HUGE load of FAs are available this season, and while many teams have money, there’s clearly not enough money to go around for that many players. If even a few "big name" FAs move teams (Walker, KD, Thompson, Kwahi, Bulter, Harris, Middleton, Brogdon, Russell, etc) then that’s going to eat up a huge chunk of the league’s available cap space. There are going to be a lot of NBA-quality players available on the secondary market, and those guys aren’t going to want to sign long-term deals at lower rates. Just like in 2018, I imagine there will be more than a handful of guys who sign 1-year deals and look for a potential payday in 2020, when the FA pool isn’t stacked with several Franchise-level players to gobble up the majority of the available FA dollars.

My 2019 Magic off-season will then consist with maintaining the status quo, nabbing some cheap help on the secondary market, and taking my risks on late draft picks.

First up, I’m re-signing both Ross and Vucevic. I look at 2020 and see Mozgov and Fournier’s likely PO opt-out as freeing up nearly $34 million, so I attempt to get Ross & Vucevic on board for around that amount total. It will likely be a little higher, but I don’t think by much. Ross is currently making $10.5M, but as a firm bench-player, he likely won’t get starter-money. I’m going to peg bringing him back on a 3-yr, $42M deal ($14M per year). I think it might be possible to get him for less, but I’m being conservative here. I’d consider a 4th year that was either a Team Option or Non-Guaranteed money. Next, I’m giving Vucevic a 4-year, $90M deal ($24M, $23M, $22M, $21M) with the final year being a Player Option. That totals $38M added to the cap sheet between the two. Yes, this puts the Magic into the luxury tax. With Mozgov’s dead contract that’s just gonna happen. The DeVos family can afford it.

Again, looking to the 2020 off-season, the Magic would only have at $100M on the books (before cap-holds). That’s ignoring if Fournier opts out (down to $83M), and if Fultz hasn’t shown anything they can pass on his QO and his $12M comes off, too (down to $71M); and that’s with the 2020 salary cap expected to be around $118M ($47M in cap room) and luxury tax around $143M. So, Ross and Vucevic’s new deals won’t hinder the Magic too much next off-season. Augustin would have a cap-hold, but obviously at 32 he would be someone worth letting go of to make cap room for a big name player (or, hopefully, he signs a "final" long-term deal for cheap to stay).

But enough about 2020. Back to 2019’s off-season.

Obviously, I’m going to exercise the option on Iwundu for next year. Birch I’d like to keep around, but if he gets a decent offer somewhere you let him go and sign some other 3rd string Center on a min deal. There will be lots of those out there. They may not be as good as Birch, but Bamba will be getting the backup role anyways, if only to verify whether he’s worth long-term investment. The list has names like Koufos, Chandler, McGee, Noah, Monroe, etc. Same goes for a backup PG. I’d look for someone better than Briscoe, and guys like Beverly, McConnell, Lin, Ish Smith, or even Rondo should be fine since the goal is for Fultz to play as much as possible. Keep in mind, both the FA signing for PG and Cn here know there’s a realistic chance that they could end up playing real minutes, due to the uncertainty of Fultz/Bamba, so it’s not just a typical 3rd string gig. Keep Briscoe on a 2-way deal in case of injuries.

Image

I made a more detailed post not long ago regarding our cap space in 2020 and 2021. Vucevic contract will be impactful only after 3 years, Ross contract wont affect us negatively at all taking into account his role and perceived salary.
Bold Predictions:
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#166 » by pepe1991 » Thu May 16, 2019 9:42 am

zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:On oPP poster made nice fanpost how Magic decision on Ross and Vučević really does not impact cap space and future all that much

I'll put test in spoiler so you can ignore this if you are not interested in reading

Spoiler:
My goal here is to push the "jump" season back a year, and instead look for incremental improvements and setting up cap room for 2020 for what is likely to be a decent FA class. Right now it doesn’t look like a good FA year…but let’s not forget that a HUGE load of FAs are available this season, and while many teams have money, there’s clearly not enough money to go around for that many players. If even a few "big name" FAs move teams (Walker, KD, Thompson, Kwahi, Bulter, Harris, Middleton, Brogdon, Russell, etc) then that’s going to eat up a huge chunk of the league’s available cap space. There are going to be a lot of NBA-quality players available on the secondary market, and those guys aren’t going to want to sign long-term deals at lower rates. Just like in 2018, I imagine there will be more than a handful of guys who sign 1-year deals and look for a potential payday in 2020, when the FA pool isn’t stacked with several Franchise-level players to gobble up the majority of the available FA dollars.

My 2019 Magic off-season will then consist with maintaining the status quo, nabbing some cheap help on the secondary market, and taking my risks on late draft picks.

First up, I’m re-signing both Ross and Vucevic. I look at 2020 and see Mozgov and Fournier’s likely PO opt-out as freeing up nearly $34 million, so I attempt to get Ross & Vucevic on board for around that amount total. It will likely be a little higher, but I don’t think by much. Ross is currently making $10.5M, but as a firm bench-player, he likely won’t get starter-money. I’m going to peg bringing him back on a 3-yr, $42M deal ($14M per year). I think it might be possible to get him for less, but I’m being conservative here. I’d consider a 4th year that was either a Team Option or Non-Guaranteed money. Next, I’m giving Vucevic a 4-year, $90M deal ($24M, $23M, $22M, $21M) with the final year being a Player Option. That totals $38M added to the cap sheet between the two. Yes, this puts the Magic into the luxury tax. With Mozgov’s dead contract that’s just gonna happen. The DeVos family can afford it.

Again, looking to the 2020 off-season, the Magic would only have at $100M on the books (before cap-holds). That’s ignoring if Fournier opts out (down to $83M), and if Fultz hasn’t shown anything they can pass on his QO and his $12M comes off, too (down to $71M); and that’s with the 2020 salary cap expected to be around $118M ($47M in cap room) and luxury tax around $143M. So, Ross and Vucevic’s new deals won’t hinder the Magic too much next off-season. Augustin would have a cap-hold, but obviously at 32 he would be someone worth letting go of to make cap room for a big name player (or, hopefully, he signs a "final" long-term deal for cheap to stay).

But enough about 2020. Back to 2019’s off-season.

Obviously, I’m going to exercise the option on Iwundu for next year. Birch I’d like to keep around, but if he gets a decent offer somewhere you let him go and sign some other 3rd string Center on a min deal. There will be lots of those out there. They may not be as good as Birch, but Bamba will be getting the backup role anyways, if only to verify whether he’s worth long-term investment. The list has names like Koufos, Chandler, McGee, Noah, Monroe, etc. Same goes for a backup PG. I’d look for someone better than Briscoe, and guys like Beverly, McConnell, Lin, Ish Smith, or even Rondo should be fine since the goal is for Fultz to play as much as possible. Keep in mind, both the FA signing for PG and Cn here know there’s a realistic chance that they could end up playing real minutes, due to the uncertainty of Fultz/Bamba, so it’s not just a typical 3rd string gig. Keep Briscoe on a 2-way deal in case of injuries.

Image

I made a more detailed post not long ago regarding our cap space in 2020 and 2021. Vucevic contract will be impactful only after 3 years, Ross contract wont affect us negatively at all taking into account his role and perceived salary.


Indeed.
Magic don't have cap space to do anything this year anyway.
Next year with Mozgov departure and chance that they decline Fultz 4th year, Magic would clear A LOT of cap space for 2020 , or more preferable 2021 where they will have enough money to offer and land full max contract (+ $30M) and still keep Vuc, Ross, Gordon, Bamba, Isaac. Even more money could be cleared if Evan declines player's option ( if he prefers to sign longer deal, let's say 3 years $12M instad of 1 year $17M ).
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#167 » by zaymon » Thu May 16, 2019 10:02 am

pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:On oPP poster made nice fanpost how Magic decision on Ross and Vučević really does not impact cap space and future all that much

I'll put test in spoiler so you can ignore this if you are not interested in reading

Spoiler:
My goal here is to push the "jump" season back a year, and instead look for incremental improvements and setting up cap room for 2020 for what is likely to be a decent FA class. Right now it doesn’t look like a good FA year…but let’s not forget that a HUGE load of FAs are available this season, and while many teams have money, there’s clearly not enough money to go around for that many players. If even a few "big name" FAs move teams (Walker, KD, Thompson, Kwahi, Bulter, Harris, Middleton, Brogdon, Russell, etc) then that’s going to eat up a huge chunk of the league’s available cap space. There are going to be a lot of NBA-quality players available on the secondary market, and those guys aren’t going to want to sign long-term deals at lower rates. Just like in 2018, I imagine there will be more than a handful of guys who sign 1-year deals and look for a potential payday in 2020, when the FA pool isn’t stacked with several Franchise-level players to gobble up the majority of the available FA dollars.

My 2019 Magic off-season will then consist with maintaining the status quo, nabbing some cheap help on the secondary market, and taking my risks on late draft picks.

First up, I’m re-signing both Ross and Vucevic. I look at 2020 and see Mozgov and Fournier’s likely PO opt-out as freeing up nearly $34 million, so I attempt to get Ross & Vucevic on board for around that amount total. It will likely be a little higher, but I don’t think by much. Ross is currently making $10.5M, but as a firm bench-player, he likely won’t get starter-money. I’m going to peg bringing him back on a 3-yr, $42M deal ($14M per year). I think it might be possible to get him for less, but I’m being conservative here. I’d consider a 4th year that was either a Team Option or Non-Guaranteed money. Next, I’m giving Vucevic a 4-year, $90M deal ($24M, $23M, $22M, $21M) with the final year being a Player Option. That totals $38M added to the cap sheet between the two. Yes, this puts the Magic into the luxury tax. With Mozgov’s dead contract that’s just gonna happen. The DeVos family can afford it.

Again, looking to the 2020 off-season, the Magic would only have at $100M on the books (before cap-holds). That’s ignoring if Fournier opts out (down to $83M), and if Fultz hasn’t shown anything they can pass on his QO and his $12M comes off, too (down to $71M); and that’s with the 2020 salary cap expected to be around $118M ($47M in cap room) and luxury tax around $143M. So, Ross and Vucevic’s new deals won’t hinder the Magic too much next off-season. Augustin would have a cap-hold, but obviously at 32 he would be someone worth letting go of to make cap room for a big name player (or, hopefully, he signs a "final" long-term deal for cheap to stay).

But enough about 2020. Back to 2019’s off-season.

Obviously, I’m going to exercise the option on Iwundu for next year. Birch I’d like to keep around, but if he gets a decent offer somewhere you let him go and sign some other 3rd string Center on a min deal. There will be lots of those out there. They may not be as good as Birch, but Bamba will be getting the backup role anyways, if only to verify whether he’s worth long-term investment. The list has names like Koufos, Chandler, McGee, Noah, Monroe, etc. Same goes for a backup PG. I’d look for someone better than Briscoe, and guys like Beverly, McConnell, Lin, Ish Smith, or even Rondo should be fine since the goal is for Fultz to play as much as possible. Keep in mind, both the FA signing for PG and Cn here know there’s a realistic chance that they could end up playing real minutes, due to the uncertainty of Fultz/Bamba, so it’s not just a typical 3rd string gig. Keep Briscoe on a 2-way deal in case of injuries.

Image

I made a more detailed post not long ago regarding our cap space in 2020 and 2021. Vucevic contract will be impactful only after 3 years, Ross contract wont affect us negatively at all taking into account his role and perceived salary.


Indeed.
Magic don't have cap space to do anything this year anyway.
Next year with Mozgov departure and chance that they decline Fultz 4th year, Magic would clear A LOT of cap space for 2020 , or more preferable 2021 where they will have enough money to offer and land full max contract (+ $30M) and still keep Vuc, Ross, Gordon, Bamba, Isaac. Even more money could be cleared if Evan declines player's option ( if he prefers to sign longer deal, let's say 3 years $12M instad of 1 year $17M ).

The funny thing is people dont understand that signing Vucevic now is kinda sign Magic believe in Bamba. If we dont resign him and Ross we will have cap space to sign roughly 3 max players in 2021( unlikely) and then we wont have cap space to resign Bamba. If we sign 2 max players we can do it with Vucevic ( depending on Fultz). Its better to sign Vucevic this year than better player next year if we believe in our young players
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#168 » by ezzzp » Thu May 16, 2019 10:04 am

Bensational wrote:I think we stopped actively tanking once we brought Skiles on. From that point, it was clear the franchise was trying to put something competitive on the court, but it just looked terrible. Then, this year, those same pieces under a new coach look much more competent. It begs the question of, when does a tanking team suddenly become a playoff team? For us, that question was answered in the 2nd half of this season.

Side note: The success of this season should serve as proof of successful tanking. We already assembled Vuc, Gordon, Fournier, Isaac, Bamba, Fultz, DJ, etc through a tanking path, and that team took us to the playoffs.

So we all know first hand that tanking can get you back to the playoffs. And if we'd managed assets better, we could still have Oladipo, Harris, Sabonis and Payton still on the team. Wow, how close were we to having something really good?

All that talent, acquired via tanking. You hit the right one at the right time, and you're Indiana enjoying Oladipo's success, or Philly watching Harris tear it up. Or Orlando, watching Vuc become and all-star.


Yea, the tanking ended after 14-15 season.

I think tanking theory is about acquiring a franchise player that elevates the team to at minimum contention tier. But it rarely happens...mostly its 1st-2nd round teams.

The biggest problem with prolonged tanking is that multiple rookie scale contracts mature in clusters creating big issues with player retention. It’s very difficult to know which is the right player to pay and how much to pay them before they are even in their prime ascent.

Then there is the problem that nearly all players leave the team that drafted them after their second contract.
Unfortunately for the team that drafted them, the third contract is peak prime for most players - which is when their production translates to wins.

Now what is also starting to happen is what is being called pre-free agency, which is players forcing their way out of contracts early. AD is example. That trend has been increasing and it’s not looking like it’s going away any time soon.

Some players are even taking the Qualifying Offer / 1 year deal instead of restricted free agency to be able to
choose their city and team at age 24-25.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#169 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Thu May 16, 2019 12:46 pm

zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:I made a more detailed post not long ago regarding our cap space in 2020 and 2021. Vucevic contract will be impactful only after 3 years, Ross contract wont affect us negatively at all taking into account his role and perceived salary.


Indeed.
Magic don't have cap space to do anything this year anyway.
Next year with Mozgov departure and chance that they decline Fultz 4th year, Magic would clear A LOT of cap space for 2020 , or more preferable 2021 where they will have enough money to offer and land full max contract (+ $30M) and still keep Vuc, Ross, Gordon, Bamba, Isaac. Even more money could be cleared if Evan declines player's option ( if he prefers to sign longer deal, let's say 3 years $12M instad of 1 year $17M ).

The funny thing is people dont understand that signing Vucevic now is kinda sign Magic believe in Bamba. If we dont resign him and Ross we will have cap space to sign roughly 3 max players in 2021( unlikely) and then we wont have cap space to resign Bamba. If we sign 2 max players we can do it with Vucevic ( depending on Fultz). Its better to sign Vucevic this year than better player next year if we believe in our young players


this is soo @ss backwards. If they re sign Vuc to a 4 year deal it will devalue Bamba big time and we'll look like fools once again. It will also show how unprepared the FO were and lack of forethought to take Bamba when they could've taken anyone else.

Yeah no one saw Vuc having great numbers but the guy was solid double double the years before so it's not like they didn't know he couldn't play and the hiring of Cliff was also a win move. This is also why soooo many people were pissed that we didn't trade Vuc earlier because here we are its going to be a L L situation regardless the outcome.

June 30th can't get here soon enough because this is the FO's chance to pick a path, something that they should've done year 1 not in year 3.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#170 » by ezzzp » Thu May 16, 2019 7:39 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Indeed.
Magic don't have cap space to do anything this year anyway.
Next year with Mozgov departure and chance that they decline Fultz 4th year, Magic would clear A LOT of cap space for 2020 , or more preferable 2021 where they will have enough money to offer and land full max contract (+ $30M) and still keep Vuc, Ross, Gordon, Bamba, Isaac. Even more money could be cleared if Evan declines player's option ( if he prefers to sign longer deal, let's say 3 years $12M instad of 1 year $17M ).

The funny thing is people dont understand that signing Vucevic now is kinda sign Magic believe in Bamba. If we dont resign him and Ross we will have cap space to sign roughly 3 max players in 2021( unlikely) and then we wont have cap space to resign Bamba. If we sign 2 max players we can do it with Vucevic ( depending on Fultz). Its better to sign Vucevic this year than better player next year if we believe in our young players


this is soo @ss backwards. If they re sign Vuc to a 4 year deal it will devalue Bamba big time and we'll look like fools once again. It will also show how unprepared the FO were and lack of forethought to take Bamba when they could've taken anyone else.

Yeah no one saw Vuc having great numbers but the guy was solid double double the years before so it's not like they didn't know he couldn't play and the hiring of Cliff was also a win move. This is also why soooo many people were pissed that we didn't trade Vuc earlier because here we are its going to be a L L situation regardless the outcome.

June 30th can't get here soon enough because this is the FO's chance to pick a path, something that they should've done year 1 not in year 3.


It doesn't devalue Bamba. If anything it hides Bamba's weaknesses while his body and game are developing. That's optimistically 1-2 years away...IF he stays healthy. The NBA saw how physically raw and how far away he was skill wise (on both ends), its not a trade secret.

If anything playing behind Vucevic is going to make him better and more valuable. It's great for Bamba's development to battle against a big like Vucevic every practice. He's learning from a high bbIQ player with a diverse offensive skill set. He'll learn how to defend that and to learn how to use it on other end every day, then get to test and hone it as back-up in less crucial conditions until he gets confidence and body catches up to NBA center physicality.

That front office you called "unprepared" built the Bucks and Raptors rosters that are in the ECF right now.

They have said retaining Vucevic is their offseason priority. I'm sure they have a price in mind, as they should, but they clearly don't see keeping Vucevic as a L L situation. They've proven that as they've had the chance to trade him last offseason and at the trade deadline...that was with Birch, Biyombo/Mozgov on roster.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#171 » by ezzzp » Thu May 16, 2019 7:45 pm

Read on Twitter


Knicks - already have Mitchell Robinson on rookie scale for 3 more years
Clippers - Zubac is RFA so they can resign over salary cap and M Harrell is locked on cheap $6m contract
Indiana - already have Myles Turner and Sabonis
Atlanta - already have Alex Len and Plumlee
Sacramento - WCS is RFA and H Gilles is locked in on rookie scale for 2 more years
Utah - already has Rudy Gobert
LAL - need a starting C
Brooklyn - already have Jarrett Allen on rookie scale for 3 more years and Bird Rights on Ed Davis
Dallas - already have Porzingis but wether he will play PF or C leaves door open for possible need at C
Chicago - already have W Carter Jr + have Felicio and are still paying Asik

• Unrestricted Free Agent Centers:

Spoiler:
Nikola Vucevic (29)
DeMarcus Cousins (29)
Dewayne Dedmon (30)
DeAndre Jordan (31)
Enes Kanter (27)
Kosta Koufos (30)
Kevon Looney (23)
Brook Lopez (31)
Robin Lopez (31)
Kyle O’Quinn (29)
Boban Marjanovic (31)
JaVale McGee (31)
Andrew Bogut (35)
Tyson Chandler (37)
Pau Gasol (39)
Marcin Gortat (35)
Udonis Haslem (39)
Amir Johnson (32)
Salah Mejri (33)
Greg Monroe (29)
Eric Moreland (28)
Mike Muscala (28)
Joakim Noah (34)
Zaza Pachulia (35)
Justin Patton (22)
Jason Smith (33)
Ekpe Udoh (31)
Tyler Zeller (29)


• Restricted Free Agent Centers:

Spoiler:
Khem Birch (27)
Thomas Bryant (22)
Willie Cauley-Stein (26)
Isaac Humphries (21)
Frank Kaminsky (26)
Luke Kornet (24)
Daniel Theis (27)
Ivica Zubac (22)
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#172 » by p0peye » Thu May 16, 2019 7:50 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Read on Twitter


Clippers could make some splash come July. Looking forward seeing what Kings will do as well, probably it'll take some time 'till we see where superstar end up, before they can scoop some star - I had Vučević as likely target, but reportedly hiring Walton as new coach makes that unlikely.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#173 » by MoMM » Thu May 16, 2019 8:14 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Read on Twitter


Knicks - already have Mitchell Robinson on rookie scale for 3 more years
Clippers - Zubac is RFA so they can resign over salary cap and M Harrell is locked on cheap $6m contract
Indiana - already have Myles Turner and Sabonis
Atlanta - already have Alex Len and Plumlee
Sacramento - WCS is RFA and H Gilles is locked in on rookie scale for 2 more years
Utah - already has Rudy Gobert
LAL - need a starting C
Brooklyn - already have Jarrett Allen on rookie scale for 3 more years and Bird Rights on Ed Davis
Dallas - already have Porzingis but wether he will play PF or C leaves door open for possible need at C
Chicago - already have W Carter Jr + have Felicio and are still paying Asik

• Unrestricted Free Agent Centers:

Spoiler:
Nikola Vucevic (29)
DeMarcus Cousins (29)
Dewayne Dedmon (30)
DeAndre Jordan (31)
Enes Kanter (27)
Kosta Koufos (30)
Kevon Looney (23)
Brook Lopez (31)
Robin Lopez (31)
Kyle O’Quinn (29)
Boban Marjanovic (31)
JaVale McGee (31)
Andrew Bogut (35)
Tyson Chandler (37)
Pau Gasol (39)
Marcin Gortat (35)
Udonis Haslem (39)
Amir Johnson (32)
Salah Mejri (33)
Greg Monroe (29)
Eric Moreland (28)
Mike Muscala (28)
Joakim Noah (34)
Zaza Pachulia (35)
Justin Patton (22)
Jason Smith (33)
Ekpe Udoh (31)
Tyler Zeller (29)


• Restricted Free Agent Centers:

Spoiler:
Khem Birch (27)
Thomas Bryant (22)
Willie Cauley-Stein (26)
Isaac Humphries (21)
Frank Kaminsky (26)
Luke Kornet (24)
Daniel Theis (27)
Ivica Zubac (22)

Considering cap space and need for C, I believe that only Clippers, Mavs and perhaps Kings might go after Vuc. Lakers probably would go after him too, but Vogel will be a huge problem in this case, so I'd discard them.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#174 » by Skin » Thu May 16, 2019 8:28 pm

MoMM wrote:Considering cap space and need for C, I believe that only Clippers, Mavs and perhaps Kings might go after Vuc. Lakers probably would go after him too, but Vogel will be a huge problem in this case, so I'd discard them.

I would take Mavs off the list. They want other big name FAs. But I would add ATL to the list of interested teams. Len and Plumlee are not cornerstones for them... and I don't think they'll be able to attract the other big named FAs.

I never really considered the Clippers. They are run by Jerry West now. He's too smart to want Vuc. I would take them off the list too.

Boils down to Kings and Hawks to me.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#175 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Thu May 16, 2019 8:30 pm

MoMM wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Read on Twitter


Knicks - already have Mitchell Robinson on rookie scale for 3 more years
Clippers - Zubac is RFA so they can resign over salary cap and M Harrell is locked on cheap $6m contract
Indiana - already have Myles Turner and Sabonis
Atlanta - already have Alex Len and Plumlee
Sacramento - WCS is RFA and H Gilles is locked in on rookie scale for 2 more years
Utah - already has Rudy Gobert
LAL - need a starting C
Brooklyn - already have Jarrett Allen on rookie scale for 3 more years and Bird Rights on Ed Davis
Dallas - already have Porzingis but wether he will play PF or C leaves door open for possible need at C
Chicago - already have W Carter Jr + have Felicio and are still paying Asik

• Unrestricted Free Agent Centers:

Spoiler:
Nikola Vucevic (29)
DeMarcus Cousins (29)
Dewayne Dedmon (30)
DeAndre Jordan (31)
Enes Kanter (27)
Kosta Koufos (30)
Kevon Looney (23)
Brook Lopez (31)
Robin Lopez (31)
Kyle O’Quinn (29)
Boban Marjanovic (31)
JaVale McGee (31)
Andrew Bogut (35)
Tyson Chandler (37)
Pau Gasol (39)
Marcin Gortat (35)
Udonis Haslem (39)
Amir Johnson (32)
Salah Mejri (33)
Greg Monroe (29)
Eric Moreland (28)
Mike Muscala (28)
Joakim Noah (34)
Zaza Pachulia (35)
Justin Patton (22)
Jason Smith (33)
Ekpe Udoh (31)
Tyler Zeller (29)


• Restricted Free Agent Centers:

Spoiler:
Khem Birch (27)
Thomas Bryant (22)
Willie Cauley-Stein (26)
Isaac Humphries (21)
Frank Kaminsky (26)
Luke Kornet (24)
Daniel Theis (27)
Ivica Zubac (22)

Considering cap space and need for C, I believe that only Clippers, Mavs and perhaps Kings might go after Vuc. Lakers probably would go after him too, but Vogel will be a huge problem in this case, so I'd discard them.



Atlanta could go hard after Vuc as well. They could give Vuc 20-25M over 4 year and still have plenty of $$ for a 2nd/3rd tier guy like a Middleton etc etc. Trae & Vuc in PnR with Collins at PF would be scary good. Atlanta hits on FA signings and Trae Collins continue to develop while 8 &10 pick come along they could be scary good.

https://soaringdownsouth.com/2019/04/05/atlanta-hawks-4-big-names-free-agency/2/
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#176 » by p0peye » Thu May 16, 2019 8:36 pm

Skin wrote:
MoMM wrote:Considering cap space and need for C, I believe that only Clippers, Mavs and perhaps Kings might go after Vuc. Lakers probably would go after him too, but Vogel will be a huge problem in this case, so I'd discard them.

I would take Mavs off the list. They want other big name FAs. But I would add ATL to the list of interested teams. Len and Plumlee are not cornerstones for them... and I don't think they'll be able to attract the other big named FAs.

I never really considered the Clippers. They are run by Jerry West now. He's too smart to want Vuc. I would take them off the list too.

Boils down to Kings and Hawks to me.


I'd put my money on Hawks. Serbian community in Kings was hoping to get Vučević, but from what I hear these days apparently Walton wants to go in different direction and might even settle with resigned WCS.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#177 » by ezzzp » Thu May 16, 2019 10:51 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Atlanta could go hard after Vuc as well. They could give Vuc 20-25M over 4 year and still have plenty of $$ for a 2nd/3rd tier guy like a Middleton etc etc. Trae & Vuc in PnR with Collins at PF would be scary good. Atlanta hits on FA signings and Trae Collins continue to develop while 8 &10 pick come along they could be scary good.

https://soaringdownsouth.com/2019/04/05/atlanta-hawks-4-big-names-free-agency/2/


I'm doubtful Vucevic would want to play in Atlanta. Magic would pay 20-25m too. Atlanta has one of deadest arenas in NBA and are years away from contention, even playoffs aren't a given with such a young roster.

Seems like Atlanta would be looking for a low USG defensive specialist at C to hide Collins and Young's serious defensive issues. They are already committing a lot of salary at C as they owe Plumlee $12.5m to be the 3d big. Seems like they'd be looking at wings/forward, not add salary at C. They can keep Alex Len (25) over the cap too as they have his RFA rights, and he had a solid year and improved a lot as the year went on.

LA seems like a legit threat. He has ties to the city from USC days and LA has big Serbian community (as well as big communities from that region).

With Vogel now on the Lakers, I seriously doubt he goes there.

The Clippers are the big threat. Doc Rivers loves Vucevic and has praised him regularly...a couple years ago said Vucevic was the best C people don't know about and was vocal that Vucevic should be All-Star this year. River's coaching style also would fit Vucevic.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#178 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Fri May 17, 2019 2:23 am

Interesting How much is Vuc worth poll going on right now in the Trades and Transactions tab.

Most see him 20-22M range and then 2nd is 17-19 range.

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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#179 » by Bensational » Fri May 17, 2019 2:56 am

It's interesting to look at the remaining bigs in the playoffs. 3/4 were picked up at the trade deadline or later with Gasol being traded for, Kanter signing as a waived FA, and Bogut being a free agent. Lopez signed with Milwaukee before the season for $4M. Cousin's signed with GSW for cheap.

Previous round had the two best bigs in the game. Franchise players of Jokic and Embiid. Plus Horford (older veteran), and Capella.

These bigs are have mostly been final piece additions. Worth considering whether we should lock up significant assets so early in a big man, whisky we have a young big in the wings, and a dire need of playmakers.
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Re: What's your breaking point (in $) for resigning Vucevic? 

Post#180 » by MoMM » Fri May 17, 2019 2:12 pm

ezzzp wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Atlanta could go hard after Vuc as well. They could give Vuc 20-25M over 4 year and still have plenty of $$ for a 2nd/3rd tier guy like a Middleton etc etc. Trae & Vuc in PnR with Collins at PF would be scary good. Atlanta hits on FA signings and Trae Collins continue to develop while 8 &10 pick come along they could be scary good.

https://soaringdownsouth.com/2019/04/05/atlanta-hawks-4-big-names-free-agency/2/


I'm doubtful Vucevic would want to play in Atlanta. Magic would pay 20-25m too. Atlanta has one of deadest arenas in NBA and are years away from contention, even playoffs aren't a given with such a young roster.

Seems like Atlanta would be looking for a low USG defensive specialist at C to hide Collins and Young's serious defensive issues. They are already committing a lot of salary at C as they owe Plumlee $12.5m to be the 3d big. Seems like they'd be looking at wings/forward, not add salary at C. They can keep Alex Len (25) over the cap too as they have his RFA rights, and he had a solid year and improved a lot as the year went on.

They already have Len and Plumlee signed for next season (17M) and I believe that they might draft another center with one of their Top 10 picks, that's way cheaper and they are not in win-mode, so it makes sense for them, IMO. They could just play their cards this season and save money for 2020 offseason when Len, Plumlee and Kent will expire (36M).

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