Bensational wrote:
1 I'm just saying, that despite the fact he performed so well by advanced metrics, he's not actually close to being a top 10 or 15 player.
2 If he were, there would be a clear number for what teams would be willing to pay him in free agency.
3 Durant is a top 5 player, and we all know he's getting the max. If Jokic or Embiid were UFAs this offseason, we'd all know they'd be getting the max. And we know any team that felt they had a chance at them would offer them that money, if they had it.
4 But with Vuc, you're even trying to make that case that his deal might fall between $20-25M, because he won't have the many suitors. If he's as good and valuable as the numbers present, it shouldn't be a question of whether teams would want him, should it?
5 You could apply a lot of that critique to Orlando. We're very much at the beginning of our rebuild, too.
6 Other than Vuc, Fournier and Gordon, the rest of our prospects, and what Weltman has constantly referred to as the future, are as young as at Atlanta's team. But, one of those prospects is clearly their offensive anchor and franchise face, which is something we don't have. If they can add one other decent veteran, they'll be in the same shape as us as far as being competitive but not true contenders - but they'd have pieces that you know they're hoping will carry you to contention. We don't.
7 Why is Alex Len so valuable? He'll obviously command a much lesser salary than Vuc in free agency. Should we try to get him instead of Vuc, and save a good chunk of money, since you consider him good enough for Atlanta to pass up on signing Vuc?
8 So whilst you've been trying to paint Vuc as being so vital to our success and worth significant money, you're now making the case that Len, Turner, WCS, Powell, etc are all good enough to give a team pause not to consider signing Vuc. Yet, we should pay Vuc significantly more than any of them. Why? Why not just sign one of these cheaper options?
9 I've been saying the C option is a final piece addition. Most of these teams have their franchise player, or have the flexibility and good likelihood that they can add one, as well as having secondary stars in place, too. The young teams might just want a capable stop-gap option to keep them competitive - same as us. I'm sure all those teams would prefer to add many other players instead, but if this is their only window to add talent, and they strike out, they might be inclined to throw a big offer at Vuc to secure that.
1 I'm just saying that despite your clear anti-Vucevic bias you still can't deny that he was top 10 in nearly every single advanced statistical metric for 2018-19. PER, VORP, RPM, BPM, WS....etc. That is a fact.
2 You literally just pointed out numerous teams with +$29m in cap space that would pay Vucevic. You literally said that Atlanta a team in tank mode would throw huge money at him.
Make up your mind.
3 And?! That has nothing to do with wether or not Vucevic ranked in top 10 in pretty much every single advance metric in the NBA in 2018-19. Which is what my comment was.
4 You are the one that keeps saying he's got all these teams that will pay him - its on this very exchange - go read your own words. I've already stated what I think his price range is and have maintained that he's not getting the kind of $ that you keep complaining about. I just showed you the teams with that type of cap space and their roster context which makes it unlikely. If you want to trick yourself into believing those teams fit your narrative knock yourself out.
5 The Magic are NOT in the beginning of the rebuild...they clearly made a playoff push and kept Vucevic and Ross to do that. The FO chose to not trade Vucevic and Ross last summer or at trade deadline. In addition, they chose to hire a coach that would play to win. That is not a team in "early stages of rebuild"
6 Actually the FO stated that resigning Vucevic was a priority. They just handed Gordon a 4 year contract (24-28) and Fournier is 26 and locked in for two more season. And unless Fultz has some miracle comeback, its pretty safe to assume he'll be backing up DJ. So NO the Magic aren't in the same situation as Atlanta. Orlando is literally 8 years from the day they started their rebuild and gifting minutes to young players is not what this FO has positioned Clifford to do.
...and Atlanta does not have the pieces for contention - that is laughable. You are confusing hype highlight videos with actual W's.
7 Why is retaining a solid young asset, that they have invested in, valuable to Atlanta - a team in rebuild? Seriously?
Len is cheaper than Vucevic for a reason. One is a young player who had a promising season. The other was top 10 in most advanced stats and selected by NBA coaches as All-Star and carried his team to playoffs. Vucevic is a proven player and vastly superior to Len, hence why he costs more.
Vucevic has more value to the Magic organization short and long term. He is key to winning context and player development. Cap space does not replace that, nor does Len.
8 wow...that's some serious spin.
First of all, it is you who keep insisting that Vucevic will get paid significant money. Most think he'll get a fair contract; the polls on T&T forum and this forum arrived at $20-$24m range. Its just you and handful of Vucevic haters that keep trying to spin that he'll get outlandish amount (read your words on this thread for proof).
Second, context is why I said those teams won't pursue Vucevic or offer him the type of money that you are desperately trying to make others believe he'll get. NOT because I'm saying their bigs are better than Vucevic.
Indiana just gave Turner a brand new 4 year extension + have Sabonis.
Atlanta is in 2nd year of ground up rebuild. Vucevic has no reason to answer their call. They have no reason to call Vucevic. Regardless of how much you, Skin and MagicMatic keep and1 each other. Did you notice the silence when you guys proposed it on T&T forum
I said Powell is back up C under contract - I also listed guaranteed $/rotation bigs on other examples...but it is funny how you chose to not mention Porzingis and instead cherry picked this particular back up to suit your spin.
WCS is a RFA and he was key player in SAC this year. Plus they have Gilles and play small a lot and now have Walton likes to play like that even more.
9 The C position is constantly in flux depending on talent at it. The wave of great guards is aging and most are in peak decline...the next wave of impactful young players is crowded with versatile forwards and bigs. Your idea is based on what occurred past decade.
Its also a little premature to call Trae Young a franchise player. Plus if they are building around him and Collins, then your theory falls apart because they'll need to hide their two core players on the defensive end were they are two of worst defenders in NBA...and their bodies don't look like that will be changing anytime soon. That means a defensive specialist center.
