Draft Thread: Knicks got #3 - Combine and Beyond

[Oscirus]

Im good where we at. Im still not even sure that Durant is coming. Every year someone's supposed to be coming over here in free agency and they never do. If Pelicans want to get rich let them do so off the Celtics or lakers.

[KnixinSix]

You seem to be good on the internet with going back and finding things so maybe you can help me out with something i asked on here yesterday and something i think we'd all be very interested to know?

So supposedly the Pels aren't interested in K.Knox so i want to know if that's just them playing with us to get us to up our offer and if they do really like K.Knox, or at least if D.Griffin does. So if i'm correct then D.Griffin was working for like ESPN or NBA TV last year and covering the draft and i'd like to find out what he had to say about K.Knox before the draft and after we drafted him to see if he did like him and think he had good/great upside but i'm not good on the computer and wouldn't know how to even go back and find those videos of what they were all saying about Knox. I think D.Griffin was actually on a panel covering the draft while it was going on and pretty sure it was for NBA TV but not 100 on that.

Here's one link that should help. click the video to the right of the knicks pick. Griffin analysis is the last portion of the video.

https://www.nba.com/draft/2018/board#/

Okay so Griffin basically said he's got the body type to be a good defender and already likes his shot but think he takes too many contested 2 point shots but says in a couple years he thinks Knicks fans will feel bad that they booed him. Sounds to me like Griffin believes the kid has a chance at being a good player so to go from that to now saying they aren't interested is just a ploy to get us to offer more in a trade for AD.

Thank you Thugger

This was a good find.

[Chanel Bomber]

That would give the Knicks 2 of the top 5 players in the league, with an additional max slot to build the team with another top 15 player or add some depth.

It's nowhere near the Melo trade.

I think there's a scenario where this ends in a way that's similar to the Melo trade.

Amar'e was an aging All-NBA player with health concerns. But he was considered one of the best players in the league at the time. Not on KD's level obviously, but he was All-NBA second team when he signed with the Knicks. He was younger than KD too.

I think we forget how good Melo was. AD is more efficient obviously, but on the other hand he doesn't have Melo's playmaking skills. I don't view AD as a top 5 player in the league. He doesn't have the consistent impact that Curry, Harden, KD, LeBron, Kawhi and I would argue Jokic, Lillard and Embiid have. I honestly believe you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think AD's a top 5 player. I'm not sure how he fits with Durant too. Sure they fit, but they won't make each other better at all.

Also the Knicks also had capspace after stretching Billups back then, and used it on Tyson Chandler who was a major free agent signing.

I respectfully think you're underestimating the risk behind the KD-AD strategy. I could pay dividends but it could also backfire worse than the Amar'e/Melo/Chandler moves.

No offense but the large emphasizes a highly inaccurate post.

I didn't mean to refer to Melo as a playmaker, but he had some playmaking skills that AD simply doesn't possess. Melo could initiate offense and make crisp diagonal passes out of the double team (when he decided to make the right basketball play which as we all know didn't always happen) or the pick-and-roll.

Melo always had the ability to make plays for his teammates. AD simply does not. He's an elite finisher with some ability to ISO but he's very reliant upon the play of his guards.

[DowNY]

You guys are trippin man. Impact? AD is on a lotto team and they aren't a lotto team because of him. You saw what Lebron looked like when he went to the Lakers? The King of the East goes to a packed Western Conference and plays on a team that just isn't built to win and we saw the results. That can happen for all those star players you guys listed.

Curry on last years Knicks would make the Knicks look like what exactly? Lebron? Giannis? Harden? Kawhi?

We would still be a trash team, so their impact wouldn't be felt on a bad team regardless of how good they are. AD is an elite NBA player with incredible skills, it doesn't matter where you rank him in the top 5 or top 10 there is no ignoring his skills and the impact those skills can have if the team is built the right way around him, which the Pelicans very clearly were not.

Like I said man, every “secondary star” they had with AD was injury prone.
Eric Gordon
Jrue Holiday
DeMarcus Cousins
AD was still able to will his team to the playoffs at least once. Defeated the Blazers last year. The same team in the WCF. Anybody who doesn’t understand how elite he is, just never watched him play outside of the times he played us and washed Porzingis every time.

[br7knicks]

the way it should be

Please be selling KD on carrying these kids.

KD isn't coming by himself. As a matter of fact i feel today that we're gonna strike out in free agency more then i've felt this way since all the KD to New York talk started. I hate feeling this way but i think players like Kyrie and J.Butler are looking at Brooklyn more then they're looking at us and Kawhi is going out west to most likely the Clippers and Jerry West will also pull off the AD trade and Middleton stays with the Bucks and Klay of course stays with GSW and i'm not signing Kemba without getting K.Durant and although i'm a big fan of his i'm not signing T.Harris to a max deal. As i've been saying all along, if we don't get one of KD, AD or Kawhi then i'm not signing any other max or near max players and just keeping on building which sucks because we're far far away from building anything great through the draft because of our misses with our first round picks the last couple of years with Knox and Frank. I think Knox could become a good offensive player but he showed no effort on the defensive end and to me that's a miss for a lottery pick. Should of drafted SGA.

I'm going to start taking note of users who actually get it.

You can also tell who's been a Knicks fan longer, based on whether or not they think KD and Kyrie are coming to NY.

Those of us long time fans know they're not coming. And that's fine.

And those of us who want to watch the Knicks win know that Knox won't help this team overall

[Mecca]

If we're giving 40 acres for AD, I want them to toss in Kenrich Williams. He's already 24 and his upside isn't THAT high so I think they would do it. Kenrich would be so valuable on a team with 3 stars that needs hustle and energy. I swear, he's a MUST if we trade for AD. His hustle, playmaking and defense is invaluable on a team with stars. Play him in the Battier role.

Kyrie - Quinn Cook - Allen
Dotson - Trier
Kenrich Williams - Jenkins
KD - Melo
AD - JaMychael Green(4 mil exception)

We can rock with that.

[Zenzibar]

Heat fan here.

Watching that video where he says he is not going to trade draft picks, and that they won't change their plan for "something shiny" that comes up.... that's dumb as f.


Imagine if, in the summer of 2004, when Shaq became available.... Pat Riley said the same thing. At the time, the Heat had a plan too. We had a rookie Dwyane Wade making noise in the playoffs, a very young team of talent with guys like a young Caron Butler, Udonis Haslem, a young Lamar Odom, etc....

but Riley said oh hell naw... and got on the phone with the Lakers and traded half the team to get Shaq to Miami.

MIami paired Shaq with a then rookie Wade, and in Wade's 2nd year, they reach the ECF and would have beaten the Pistons if not for a freak rib injury to Wade. The very next year, Miami wins the championship.

You telling me you don't change plans when a superstar franchise player of Anthony Davis' caliber shows up?

You trade whatever you have to trade to get AD in a Knicks uniform. ESPECIALLY when you have Kevin Durant looking around the league for a new team...

if the Knicks get Anthony Davis.... then you pretty much a lock to get Kevin Durant. KD + AD, and then you hype up the fact that the Knicks have not won a championship in 46 years.... so Kevin Durant can fix his rep by helping a "bad franchise" win a championship, ala Lebron with the Cavs.

Absolutely agree.

KD and Irving together, would be on par with the Bucks. But if you want to win it all, as early as NEXT year, you need AD. His addition will offset the West.

You can't waste Kevin Durant and perhaps Kyrie, not even for 1 year.

[br7knicks]

Lol just read an article Cavs would trade 5 and 26 for 3. Not nearly enough...

I'll trade them DSJ, Frank and the #3 pick for C.Sexton, #5 and #26.

Maybe just one of DSJ or Frank but would probably do both.

Then i draft RJ Hunter at #5.

Replace Frank with Knox, and I'm okay with that. Not a Sexton fan, but Knicks are going to lose dsjr anyway

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

Please be selling KD on carrying these kids.

KD isn't coming by himself. As a matter of fact i feel today that we're gonna strike out in free agency more then i've felt this way since all the KD to New York talk started. I hate feeling this way but i think players like Kyrie and J.Butler are looking at Brooklyn more then they're looking at us and Kawhi is going out west to most likely the Clippers and Jerry West will also pull off the AD trade and Middleton stays with the Bucks and Klay of course stays with GSW and i'm not signing Kemba without getting K.Durant and although i'm a big fan of his i'm not signing T.Harris to a max deal. As i've been saying all along, if we don't get one of KD, AD or Kawhi then i'm not signing any other max or near max players and just keeping on building which sucks because we're far far away from building anything great through the draft because of our misses with our first round picks the last couple of years with Knox and Frank. I think Knox could become a good offensive player but he showed no effort on the defensive end and to me that's a miss for a lottery pick. Should of drafted SGA.

I'm going to start taking note of users who actually get it.

You can also tell who's been a Knicks fan longer, based on whether or not they think KD and Kyrie are coming to NY.

Those of us long time fans know they're not coming. And that's fine.

And those of us who want to watch the Knicks win know that Knox won't help this team overall

Dude, if the Knicks grab Anthony Davis in a trade... the chances of getting Durant skyrockets.

all you have to tell Kevin Durant is the following :

"We haven't won a ring in 46 years. You could help a losing franchise and fix your rep and legacy, just like Lebron did. And you'd be teaming up with Anthony Davis to do it. You two could be the next great championship duo, like Kobe and Shaq."

[thebuzzardman]

I can’t think of any “low wiggle” players that have succeeded unless they added something to their game like a long range shot or some isolation dribble moves to create space. He will benefit from the increased pace + his reputation for going to rim will get him some whistles.

I really couldn't think of anyone who was kind of straight line without a 3.

Thunder Dan Marjerle (sp?) was kind of straight line. He also wasn't a star and was also a big 3 point shooter, at least for his era.

Melo, Lebron, Pierce, for starters. Wade didn't have "wiggle" but he had a good handle and crossover. Guy shot under30% percent for his career and seemed to do OK. There's been many over the years. BTW, he had no trouble getting to the rim (and finishing) even w/o "wiggle". There wasn't a single player that stopped him and he played against some of the best defenders. I really believe he helped Zion more than is talked about.

Good examples. I figure they existed but was looking for someone who had examples.
BTW, I'm not knocking RJ; I'm just discussing what seems to be "the book" on him, which I'm wary of, because I feel like a few takes become a bible on a player, especially before drafted, that aren't entirely true.

[HEZI]

You guys are trippin man. Impact? AD is on a lotto team and they aren't a lotto team because of him. You saw what Lebron looked like when he went to the Lakers? The King of the East goes to a packed Western Conference and plays on a team that just isn't built to win and we saw the results. That can happen for all those star players you guys listed.

Curry on last years Knicks would make the Knicks look like what exactly? Lebron? Giannis? Harden? Kawhi?

We would still be a trash team, so their impact wouldn't be felt on a bad team regardless of how good they are. AD is an elite NBA player with incredible skills, it doesn't matter where you rank him in the top 5 or top 10 there is no ignoring his skills and the impact those skills can have if the team is built the right way around him, which the Pelicans very clearly were not.

Like I said man, every “secondary star” they had with AD was injury prone.
Eric Gordon
Jrue Holiday
DeMarcus Cousins
AD was still able to will his team to the playoffs at least once. Defeated the Blazers last year. The same team in the WCF. Anybody who doesn’t understand how elite he is, just never watched him play outside of the times he played us and washed Porzingis every time.

The Warriors themselves had no answers for him, Draymond was literally beating the shyt out of him with flagrant fouls that weren't called flagrant and AD still did his thing. The Pelicans had no answer for KD though and the Warriors got it done but this dude does damage to opposing teams and it's crazy how underrated he is right now. Like people really rate Giannis ahead of AD? That's crazy to me. AD is at the very least on his level but I think he's even better than him.

[Thugger HBC]

I think there's a scenario where this ends in a way that's similar to the Melo trade.

Amar'e was an aging All-NBA player with health concerns. But he was considered one of the best players in the league at the time. Not on KD's level obviously, but he was All-NBA second team when he signed with the Knicks. He was younger than KD too.

I think we forget how good Melo was. AD is more efficient obviously, but on the other hand he doesn't have Melo's playmaking skills. I don't view AD as a top 5 player in the league. He doesn't have the consistent impact that Curry, Harden, KD, LeBron, Kawhi and I would argue Jokic, Lillard and Embiid have. I honestly believe you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think AD's a top 5 player. I'm not sure how he fits with Durant too. Sure they fit, but they won't make each other better at all.

Also the Knicks also had capspace after stretching Billups back then, and used it on Tyson Chandler who was a major free agent signing.

I respectfully think you're underestimating the risk behind the KD-AD strategy. I could pay dividends but it could also backfire worse than the Amar'e/Melo/Chandler moves.

No offense but the large emphasizes a highly inaccurate post.

I didn't mean to refer to Melo as a playmaker, but he had some playmaking skills that AD simply doesn't possess. Melo could initiate offense and make crisp diagonal passes out of the double team (when he decided to make the right basketball play which as we all know didn't always happen) or the pick-and-roll.

Melo always had the ability to make plays for his teammates. AD simply does not. He's an elite finisher with some ability to ISO but he's very reliant upon the play of his guards.

Both of these guys were greatly possessed with playmaking skills as both were point guards before college.

Davis however transferred his playmaking to the NBA, on top of top notch defense and elite scoring and shooting.

Anthony Davis does pretty much everything on the court at an elite level, outside of the three ball. he's pretty much great in every other facet on offense and defense.

The issue here is we tend to hold individual players accountable for team success. The Pelicans have had an awful roster for a while, only LeBron could overcome that in the West. Put the Pels team in the east and they definitely are a playoff team.

[HEZI]

What AD did to Nurkic last year in the playoffs was just disrespectful. Nurkic is one of the best defensive Centers in the league and AD straight up abused him all series long.

[Chanel Bomber]

That would give the Knicks 2 of the top 5 players in the league, with an additional max slot to build the team with another top 15 player or add some depth.

It's nowhere near the Melo trade.

I think there's a scenario where this ends in a way that's similar to the Melo trade.

Amar'e was an aging All-NBA player with health concerns. But he was considered one of the best players in the league at the time. Not on KD's level obviously, but he was All-NBA second team when he signed with the Knicks. He was younger than KD too.

I think we forget how good Melo was. AD is more efficient obviously, but on the other hand he doesn't have Melo's playmaking skills. I don't view AD as a top 5 player in the league. He doesn't have the consistent impact that Curry, Harden, KD, LeBron, Kawhi and I would argue Jokic, Lillard and Embiid have. I honestly believe you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think AD's a top 5 player. I'm not sure how he fits with Durant either. Sure they fit, but they won't make each other better at all.

Also the Knicks also had capspace after stretching Billups back then, and used it on Tyson Chandler who was a major free agent signing.

I respectfully think you're underestimating the risk behind the KD-AD strategy. I could pay dividends but it could also backfire worse than the Amar'e/Melo/Chandler moves. Especially when you consider KD's volatile character.

Amare Stoudemire, when he signed with the Knicks, was nowhere near a top 5 player in the league. Not even top 15. He was coming off a microfracture surgery that destroyed his knee when he was with the Suns.

Amare may have been an All-Star, but nowhere near the caliber of an Anthony Davis (top 5 in the NBA) or a Kevin Durant (top 2)

First of all, I don't view KD as a top 2 player nor do I view AD as a top 5 player. But that's another conversation.

What you said in your first paragraph is wrong however. Amar'e was an All-NBA second team selection just weeks prior to signing with the Knicks. He was definitely a top 15 player in the league at the time.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

No offense but the large emphasizes a highly inaccurate post.

I didn't mean to refer to Melo as a playmaker, but he had some playmaking skills that AD simply doesn't possess. Melo could initiate offense and make crisp diagonal passes out of the double team (when he decided to make the right basketball play which as we all know didn't always happen) or the pick-and-roll.

Melo always had the ability to make plays for his teammates. AD simply does not. He's an elite finisher with some ability to ISO but he's very reliant upon the play of his guards.

Both of these guys were greatly possessed with playmaking skills as both were point guards before college.

Davis however transferred his playmaking to the NBA, on top of top notch defense and elite scoring and shooting.

Anthony Davis does pretty much everything on the court at an elite level, outside of the three ball. he's pretty much great in every other facet on offense and defense.

The issue here is we tend to hold individual players accountable for team success. The Pelicans have had an awful roster for a while, only LeBron could overcome that in the West. Put the Pels team in the east and they definitely are a playoff team.

Lebron can't overcome anything. He missed the playoffs this year. He's hugely overrated because of the -2- superteams he's played on. Miami with a prime Wade and Bosh, and then Cleveland with a prime Kyrie and Kevin Love. All 4 of those guys were All-Stars and some of them HoF'ers before ever playing with Lebron.

Lebron stands on the shoulders of others and the media hypes him.

[Thugger HBC]

I didn't mean to refer to Melo as a playmaker, but he had some playmaking skills that AD simply doesn't possess. Melo could initiate offense and make crisp diagonal passes out of the double team (when he decided to make the right basketball play which as we all know didn't always happen) or the pick-and-roll.

Melo always had the ability to make plays for his teammates. AD simply does not. He's an elite finisher with some ability to ISO but he's very reliant upon the play of his guards.

Both of these guys were greatly possessed with playmaking skills as both were point guards before college.

Davis however transferred his playmaking to the NBA, on top of top notch defense and elite scoring and shooting.

Anthony Davis does pretty much everything on the court at an elite level, outside of the three ball. he's pretty much great in every other facet on offense and defense.

The issue here is we tend to hold individual players accountable for team success. The Pelicans have had an awful roster for a while, only LeBron could overcome that in the West. Put the Pels team in the east and they definitely are a playoff team.

Lebron can't overcome anything. He missed the playoffs this year. He's hugely overrated because of the -2- superteams he's played on. Miami with a prime Wade and Bosh, and then Cleveland with a prime Kyrie and Kevin Love. All 4 of those guys were All-Stars and some of them HoF'ers before ever playing with Lebron.

Lebron stands on the shoulders of others and the media hypes him.

<---looks at screen name. Totally understands post context.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

I think there's a scenario where this ends in a way that's similar to the Melo trade.

Amar'e was an aging All-NBA player with health concerns. But he was considered one of the best players in the league at the time. Not on KD's level obviously, but he was All-NBA second team when he signed with the Knicks. He was younger than KD too.

I think we forget how good Melo was. AD is more efficient obviously, but on the other hand he doesn't have Melo's playmaking skills. I don't view AD as a top 5 player in the league. He doesn't have the consistent impact that Curry, Harden, KD, LeBron, Kawhi and I would argue Jokic, Lillard and Embiid have. I honestly believe you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think AD's a top 5 player. I'm not sure how he fits with Durant either. Sure they fit, but they won't make each other better at all.

Also the Knicks also had capspace after stretching Billups back then, and used it on Tyson Chandler who was a major free agent signing.

I respectfully think you're underestimating the risk behind the KD-AD strategy. I could pay dividends but it could also backfire worse than the Amar'e/Melo/Chandler moves. Especially when you consider KD's volatile character.

Amare Stoudemire, when he signed with the Knicks, was nowhere near a top 5 player in the league. Not even top 15. He was coming off a microfracture surgery that destroyed his knee when he was with the Suns.

Amare may have been an All-Star, but nowhere near the caliber of an Anthony Davis (top 5 in the NBA) or a Kevin Durant (top 2)

First of all, I don't view KD as a top 2 player nor do I view AD as a top 5 player. But that's another conversation.

What you said in your first paragraph is wrong however. Amar'e was an All-NBA second team selection just weeks prior to signing with the Knicks. He was definitely a top 15 player in the league at the time.

Wade
Lebron
Carmelo
CP3
Kevin Garnett
Chris Bosh
Dwight Howard
Derrick Rose
Paul Pierce
Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Kevin Durant
Dirk Nowitzki
Brandon Roy

That's 15 players that were better than Amare in their 2010 version, which is when Amare signed with NY.


If you recall, Amare was seen as a system player benefiting from playing with Steve Nash, the 2 time MVP feeding him easy baskets.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

Both of these guys were greatly possessed with playmaking skills as both were point guards before college.

Davis however transferred his playmaking to the NBA, on top of top notch defense and elite scoring and shooting.

Anthony Davis does pretty much everything on the court at an elite level, outside of the three ball. he's pretty much great in every other facet on offense and defense.

The issue here is we tend to hold individual players accountable for team success. The Pelicans have had an awful roster for a while, only LeBron could overcome that in the West. Put the Pels team in the east and they definitely are a playoff team.

Lebron can't overcome anything. He missed the playoffs this year. He's hugely overrated because of the -2- superteams he's played on. Miami with a prime Wade and Bosh, and then Cleveland with a prime Kyrie and Kevin Love. All 4 of those guys were All-Stars and some of them HoF'ers before ever playing with Lebron.

Lebron stands on the shoulders of others and the media hypes him.

<---looks at screen name. Totally understands post context.

Am I wrong, though?

Put Steph Curry with a prime Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in 2010. Does that team reach the Finals in the Leastern Conference 4 times straight?

Put Dame Lillard, or Kevin Durant, or any number of star players with a Prime Wade and Bosh.

And then with a Prime Kyrie and Kevin Love.

Come on man. Easiest trip to the Finals ever. 8 straight Finals trips don't mean anything when you have the most stacked team in the conference. It's the same with people dogging on Kevin Durant with the Warriors.

Look at Lebron objectively. He's hugely overrated.

And regular season stats don't mean **** to me either, because look at Westbrook's empty triple double season. Dude plays "Triple Double Defense" to get rebounds and assists.

[Thugger HBC]

[Chanel Bomber]

Amare Stoudemire, when he signed with the Knicks, was nowhere near a top 5 player in the league. Not even top 15. He was coming off a microfracture surgery that destroyed his knee when he was with the Suns.

Amare may have been an All-Star, but nowhere near the caliber of an Anthony Davis (top 5 in the NBA) or a Kevin Durant (top 2)

First of all, I don't view KD as a top 2 player nor do I view AD as a top 5 player. But that's another conversation.

What you said in your first paragraph is wrong however. Amar'e was an All-NBA second team selection just weeks prior to signing with the Knicks. He was definitely a top 15 player in the league at the time.

Wade
Lebron
Carmelo
CP3
Kevin Garnett
Chris Bosh
Dwight Howard
Derrick Rose
Paul Pierce
Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Kevin Durant
Dirk Nowitzki
Brandon Roy

That's 15 players that were better than Amare in their 2010 version, which is when Amare signed with NY.


If you recall, Amare was seen as a system player benefiting from playing with Steve Nash, the 2 time MVP feeding him easy baskets.

Amar'e was an All-NBA second team selection in 2010. This here is an indisputable fact. He was also considered a bigger fish than Bosh at the time (even though Bosh then went on to have a far better career that STAT). I rest my case.